Man Convicted in Scotland for Making a Joke

Pogue Mahone

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I’m not familiar with the gimp with the shit piercings in the OP. Is he being called a nazi because he holds extreme right wing views? Or because of his shit “joke” with the dog? The bar for what is and isn’t an actual nazi does seem to be set pretty low these days.
 

Raulduke

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I hate the way these morons have co-opted the free speech issue as some sort of right to say inane yet offensive garbage. They may be at times technically correct but they demean the importance of the right to free speech by conflating it with their petty desire to say edgy stuff for the sake of internet kudos.
 

Physiocrat

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I’m not familiar with the gimp with the shit piercings in the OP. Is he being called a nazi because he holds extreme right wing views? Or because of his shit “joke” with the dog? The bar for what is and isn’t an actual nazi does seem to be set pretty low these days.
It was for his joke although the prosecution attempted to claim he was a Nazi in the court case but the main item was the video.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I hate the way these morons have co-opted the free speech issue as some sort of right to say inane yet offensive garbage. They may be at times technically correct but they demean the importance of the right to free speech by conflating it with their petty desire to say edgy stuff for the sake of internet kudos.
Very good point.
 

hobbers

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Clearly not a nazi, just a moron. And if that is now the standard then most of the planet are nazis.
 

Physiocrat

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I hate the way these morons have co-opted the free speech issue as some sort of right to say inane yet offensive garbage. They may be at times technically correct but they demean the importance of the right to free speech by conflating it with their petty desire to say edgy stuff for the sake of internet kudos.
He originally had no intention to. It was to wind up his girlfriend. He wasn't trying to say it because he could to go yeah, free speech man. To put this in context, many comedians have said what could be considered equally offensive jokes but no-one cares and carries on. Persons in point being Jimmy Carr and Frankie Boyle amongst others
 

JPRouve

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I'm actually offended by the inanity of that video, at which point did he thought that anyone would like to watch that?
 

Cheesy

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I’m not familiar with the gimp with the shit piercings in the OP. Is he being called a nazi because he holds extreme right wing views? Or because of his shit “joke” with the dog? The bar for what is and isn’t an actual nazi does seem to be set pretty low these days.
He claims not to be a Nazi although his Twitter is full of him Retweeting figures like Tommy Robinson - and not just for their involvement in his case. He may not be a far-right loon but he certainly isn't distancing himself from such types and is welcoming their support.
 

Physiocrat

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I'm actually offended by the inanity of that video, at which point did he thought that anyone would like to watch that?
Again, he made it to wind up his girlfriend to show his mates then it went viral with over 2m views. He did not intend for this to be a widely seen video
 

Pogue Mahone

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He originally had no intention to. It was to wind up his girlfriend. He wasn't trying to say it because he could to go yeah, free speech man. To put this in context, many comedians have said what could be considered equally offensive jokes but no-one cares and carries on. Persons in point being Jimmy Carr and Frankie Boyle amongst others
Yeah, right. Is that why he posted it on youtube? The whole thing was clearly done to get him lols/kudos from his fellow basement dwellers. Now he’s become some sort of figure-head for their tiresome bleatings about free speech I’d say he’s secretly delighted.
 

Physiocrat

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Yeah, right. Is that why he posted it on youtube? The whole thing was clearly done to get him lols/kudos from his fellow basement dwellers. Now he’s become some sort of figure-head for their tiresome bleatings about free speech I’d say he’s secretly delighted.
Depends on how many followers he had originally. I don't think you'd be delighted to have a court case hanging over your head for two years
 

Cheesy

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Again, he made it to wind up his girlfriend to show his mates then it went viral with over 2m views. He did not intend for this to be a widely seen video
It's still weird as feck though. Especially with his repeated calls of 'Gas the Jews'. And he put it on YouTube as well.
 

Cheesy

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Yeah, right. Is that why he posted it on youtube? The whole thing was clearly done to get him lols/kudos from his fellow basement dwellers. Now he’s become some sort of figure-head for their tiresome bleatings about free speech I’d say he’s secretly delighted.
His Twitter reeks of self-importance. When push comes to shove he'll probably get a fine and/or some community service. No doubt he'll get a ton of media interviews and will make some money back from his newfound minor fame. I disagree with the conviction, but you'd think he was Nelson fecking Mandela the way he's acting.
 

FlawlessThaw

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Depends on how many followers he had originally. I don't think you'd be delighted to have a court case hanging over your head for two years
Probably wouldn't be calling to 'gas the jews' either.

Did a jury convict him or was it simply a judge?
 

Pogue Mahone

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Depends on how many followers he had originally. I don't think you'd be delighted to have a court case hanging over your head for two years
I’d hate it. But then again I’d also hate the twitter/social media notoriety he’s gained as a result of this case. And he seems like someone who would be very different to me in this regard.
 

Rado_N

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I hate the way these morons have co-opted the free speech issue as some sort of right to say inane yet offensive garbage. They may be at times technically correct but they demean the importance of the right to free speech by conflating it with their petty desire to say edgy stuff for the sake of internet kudos.
@iczster
 

Fingeredmouse

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I hate the way these morons have co-opted the free speech issue as some sort of right to say inane yet offensive garbage. They may be at times technically correct but they demean the importance of the right to free speech by conflating it with their petty desire to say edgy stuff for the sake of internet kudos.
Unfortunately, if we want free speech, we have to tolerate bell-ends saying bell-end things. We can't have partial free speech. In the UK, however, there is no right to free speech. There should be, I'd argue, but many in the UK would disagree.
 

JPRouve

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Again, he made it to wind up his girlfriend to show his mates then it went viral with over 2m views. He did not intend for this to be a widely seen video
It doesn't change anything to what I said.
 

Drainy

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Of course it isn’t. But for the same reasons @Raulduke outlined, I struggle to care much either.
Isn't that the same as 'When they came for the..'?

It's hard to care when it affects someone who you dislike, disagree with or have no interest in their well being, but you should care because it is the principle that at some point, depending on the person making the decision to prosecute, it could be you.
 

Raulduke

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Unfortunately, if we want free speech, we have to tolerate bell-ends saying bell-end things. We can't have partial free speech. In the UK, however, there is no right to free speech. There should be, I'd argue, but many in the UK would disagree.
Yeah I agree with that concept entirely. What I take issue with is the fact these types portray themselves as some sort of free speech crusaders like that's the primary reason for their shitposting. It's like if people who vandalise a kids play ground claimed they did so to highlight the disrepair of the play ground. If we as a society have our freedom of speech curtailed it will inevitably be as a result of these idiots trashing it for lols.
 

DOTA

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Isn't that the same as 'When they came for the..'?

It's hard to care when it affects someone who you dislike, disagree with or have no interest in their well being, but you should care because it is the principle that at some point, depending on the person making the decision to prosecute, it could be you.
I don't buy this 'any threat to free speech is a slip towards fascism' thing. I see no evidence for it. I see evidence that tolerance to far right speech leads to fascism.
 

PedroMendez

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Just few days ago a Washington council man said on Facebook, that Jews control the weather to make money. Convicting people for idiocy is not a good solution.
 

Drainy

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Yeah I agree with that concept entirely. What I take issue with is the fact these types portray themselves as some sort of free speech crusaders like that's the primary reason for their shitposting. It's like if people who vandalise a kids play ground claimed they did so to highlight the disrepair of the play ground. If we as a society have our freedom of speech curtailed it will inevitably be as a result of these idiots trashing it for lols.
There is a difference between communication and destruction of property.

There have always been efforts to curtail freedom of expression, shitposting will not matter one way or another, in the end it is the courage of our principles in understanding that all it takes is for someone to disagree with you to be in charge for you to be on the wrong end of these kinds of laws.

I don't buy this 'any threat to free speech is a slip towards fascism' thing. I see no evidence for it. I see evidence that tolerance to far right speech leads to fascism.
A strong constitutional right to freedom of expression should also be backed up with strong constitutional protections against the tyranny of the majority. Expression is a fundamental part of a democracy and the answer is better communication: not silencing, labelling and shaming.

The debates will be had whether it is in public where there are more voices to participate and moderate extreme positions, or in private or small communities that can serve as an echo chamber for bad ideas. This kind of story will only add fuel the the actual bigots' fire.
 

hobbers

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Jail him for being an annoying moron.
Start with him, continue with anyone who follows Tommy Robinson. Scale up to UKIP voters and cybergnats.

Then move on to all the Momentum people and anyone who ever voted for Nick Clegg.

Societal problems solved?
 

DOTA

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A strong constitutional right to freedom of expression should also be backed up with strong constitutional protections against the tyranny of the majority. Expression is a fundamental part of a democracy and the answer is better communication: not silencing, labelling and shaming.

The debates will be had whether it is in public where there are more voices to participate and moderate extreme positions, or in private or small communities that can serve as an echo chamber for bad ideas. This kind of story will only add fuel the the actual bigots' fire.
Do you have legislative ideas to encourage better communication or should I just keep asking nazis to come round for a cup of tea and hope for the best?
 

Sandikan

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Man teaches his dog to salute when he says "seig heil" and to react to "gas the Jews" has been convicted of being "grossly offensive". Even if you think it was offensive, he has been convicted for telling a joke. Freedom of speech is not moving in a good way.

Full story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43478925

Edit - No member of the public actually claimed they were offended by the video. The police themselves decided that it was and used their diversity statement in court as proof of offence - this is according to Dankula himself in an interview with him

"Grossly Offensive" video-


Edit - Tried just to link the vid, not embed it but it embeds automatically.
The guy looks a soap dodging work shy clown.
Idiotic at best video, hate speech at worst.

Unlucky mate, won't be so smug and find it so funny now will he.
 

Sandikan

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Everyone who ever commented on a YouTube video or Daily Mail story is guilty of that.
It's about time they started clamping down on some of these people who think they can get away with all manner of hate speech online.
You see it on so many youtube videos, vile stuff.
 

SteveJ

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It's about time they started clamping down on some of these people who think they can get away with all manner of hate speech online.
You see it on so many youtube videos, vile stuff.
Whenever I look at them, somebody is defending Hitler's decision to invade Russia.
 

Sandikan

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Whenever I look at them, somebody is defending Hitler's decision to invade Russia.
Anything to do with Auschwitz and concentration camps has seas of people with their "Holohoax" theories.

It says it all that the most documented horror of all time, still has disbelievers and people who try and water it down.
 

Drainy

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Do you have legislative ideas to encourage better communication or should I just keep asking nazis to come round for a cup of tea and hope for the best?
Why does it have to be legislative? Interactions are at will. If you refuse to counter a bigot's argument he will just repeat it uncontested to people, if he is non-platformed he will just find a different platform. It is better to engage in public using logic, reason and truth.

All fundamentals of safety and equality for individuals should be protected by a constitution that is safequarded by an independent judiciary and upper house- these shouldn't be a democratic play thing, but you have to accept that an individual's right to expression should also be protected- it is arrogance in believing that your opinions will always be considered 'normal' that leads to this thinking, and all it takes is political winds to change for these kinds of laws to be turned against you. A lot of positive and progressive ideas were initially considered radical, a chill in expression is a chill in progression.
 

DOTA

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Why does it have to be legislative? Interactions are at will. If you refuse to counter a bigot's argument he will just repeat it uncontested to people, if he is non-platformed he will just find a different platform. It is better to engage in public using logic, reason and truth.

All fundamentals of safety and equality for individuals should be protected by a constitution that is safequarded by an independent judiciary and upper house- these shouldn't be a democratic play thing, but you have to accept that an individual's right to expression should also be protected- it is arrogance in believing that your opinions will always be considered 'normal' that leads to this thinking, and all it takes is political winds to change for these kinds of laws to be turned against you. A lot of positive and progressive ideas were initially considered radical, a chill in expression is a chill in progression.
Again, I don't see evidence for this. I see it to the contrary.

And I can assure you my views aren't considered 'normal'. I dream of the day.
 

Morpheus 7

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The very idea that this man could go to jail is ludicrous. In my opinion it's a joke of questionable taste, possible prison under a hate crime? No.