Man jailed for racially abusing Marcus Rashford on twitter

[Botim]

Context is everything.

Take your J.K Rowling quote for example. Saying a woman has a womb cannot be considered hate speech in any way. It only becomes hate speech if the person who said it intended to cause harm/offence. I don't know if that was his intention as I'd never heard the quote until just now. I guess it's open to interpretation until Rowling clears it up for us.

Ok, how about just bluntly saying: "trans women are not real women". Is that hate speech? The line is very thin and it continually changes. My grandpa used the word retard as a genuine term to refer to mentally disabled people. That would no longer be tolerated. This is the biggest problem with the whole idea of "hate speech", you can mold and bend it to fit your agenda pretty easily. And you can interpret someone's intentions as you like.

However, the following quote is hate speech in its truest form: "YOU F****** STUPID N***** MISSING A FREE PEN MY DEAD NAN COULD HAVE SCORED THAT”. If you agree with that, and I'm sure you do, then the law states he can be prosecuted. Which he absolutely was to the harshest extent.

Off course I think it's a despicable and hateful thing to say. But if he would have said asshole instead of the n-word, it would suddenly be ok in the eyes of the law?

There was an online newspaper which had a problem with horrible (racist) comments on its articles. They made ID verification obligatory and also prohibited the use of usernames other than your real name. The abuse immediately went down. Why not start there and force Twitter and others to do the same. Most of these keyboard warriors feels safe hiding behind some meme name and Pepe the frog picture.

Skimming through but are there posters arguing you should be free to racially abuse people without any come back because of free speech?

I don't think anyone is arguing that. There's other possible "solutions" than jailing a teenager though.

 

[smi11ie]

If Rashford is unhappy with the abuse he is receiving as a Man Utd player then he should look to pastures new. I think it is clear that he cannot continue to perform at a high level whilst dealing with racism and other issues. The more he focuses on comments made by bellends on social media indicates he doesn't have the singular mind-set needed to push beyond it towards glory.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Skimming through but are there posters arguing you should be free to racially abuse people without any come back because of free speech?

I was going to ask this but it is RaceCaf afterall.

If Rashford is unhappy with the abuse he is receiving as a Man Utd player then he should look to pastures new. I think it is clear that he cannot continue to perform at a high level whilst dealing with racism and other issues. The more he focuses on comments made by bellends on social media indicates he doesn't have the singular mind-set needed to push beyond it towards glory.

 

[Adverbverbnoun]

I think it’s strange a person can be locked up for saying something, or writing something, no matter how offensive and mean it might be. To me the remedy would be banning from Twitter, societal ostracism, and maybe a civil case. That old saying, “I may not agree with you but I will fight/die for your right to say it”. Dude who abused Rashford was a piece of shit, no question. I think the first amendment (US) has to allow for vile, hateful speech. If people are offended, there are remedies, but squelching free speech should not be one of them. People get offended over tons of things now, and someone being offended isn’t enough to sacrifice the right to be offensive. Racism sucks in sports and elsewhere, so efforts to drive it and racists from the public sphere should be supported, but I still think jailing someone for speech is a slippery slope we don’t want to go down.

This has probably been pointed out but you do not have an absolute right to free speech. The example that is always used is that you cannot shout fire in a theatre. There are also laws about hate speech and incitement. I guess the question would be, why are you trying to defend the right to be racist?

You can't be a free speech absolutist because you are here on redcafe where you know any talk of certain subjects will be censored, so why then choose racism as the subject you do get all hypocritical about free speech on? Did you make the same speech when redcafe took away your right to free speech on Mason, or is it just now your principles got all important?

 

[arnie_ni]

Ok, how about just bluntly saying: "trans women are not real women". Is that hate speech? The line is very thin and it continually changes. My grandpa used the word retard as a genuine term to refer to mentally disabled people. That would no longer be tolerated. This is the biggest problem with the whole idea of "hate speech", you can mold and bend it to fit your agenda pretty easily. And you can interpret someone's intentions as you like.



Off course I think it's a despicable and hateful thing to say. But if he would have said asshole instead of the n-word, it would suddenly be ok in the eyes of the law?

There was an online newspaper which had a problem with horrible (racist) comments on its articles. They made ID verification obligatory and also prohibited the use of usernames other than your real name. The abuse immediately went down. Why not start there and force Twitter and others to do the same. Most of these keyboard warriors feels safe hiding behind some meme name and Pepe the frog picture.



I don't think anyone is arguing that. There's other possible "solutions" than jailing a teenager though.

I've seen free speech mentioned quite a bit, why even mention it if that's not what you're arguing.

Note you doesn't refer to you specifically btw

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Ok, how about just bluntly saying: "trans women are not real women". Is that hate speech?

I don't think anything falls into that category unless you're engaging someone directly in an abusive manner, talking about a particular person or persons in an abusive manner, or inciting something unlawful.

As far as I'm aware, it isn't illegal - per se - to hold, say, what most people would call racist views. If this same idiot had posted that he was firmly against interracial marriage (but without attacking anyone or addressing anyone directly), I doubt it would've been possible to jail him for it.

 

[AndersB]

Man, 19. Did you mean edgy twitter teenager?

A 19 year old is by definition NOT a teenager please bite

 

[Adverbverbnoun]

A 19 year old is by definition NOT a teenager please bite

Nineteen

 

[Random Task]

Ok, how about just bluntly saying: "trans women are not real women". Is that hate speech? The line is very thin and it continually changes. My grandpa used the word retard as a genuine term to refer to mentally disabled people. That would no longer be tolerated. This is the biggest problem with the whole idea of "hate speech", you can mold and bend it to fit your agenda pretty easily. And you can interpret someone's intentions as you like.

The trans women example is a tough one, but if pushed to provide an answer, I'd say it was ignorance rather than hate speech? But again, it depends entirely on the context of the comment, the intent behind it.

The retard comment is a little more straightforward. Your grandad referring to mentally handicapped people as retards was commonly accepted in his time, no? To him, he's calling a spade a spade I guess. Not overly PC, perhaps, but it's doubtful there is ill-intent there.

I don't think anyone is arguing that. There's other possible "solutions" than jailing a teenager though.

They've come up with all manner of "solutions" to the problem, and not one of them has been successful. Kick it out, Black Lives Matter, Say No to Online Hate and the numerous other campaigns designed to battle online hate over the years just didn't have the impact required. It didn't even make a dent. Hate speech is more prevalent today than ever because the idiots swiftly discovered that their actions, no matter how harmful, came entirely without consequence. You can say whatever you like on Twitter and won't even get banned. Something had to be done. Jail time, while it does seem excessive, is basically the last resort. If the threat of going to prison doesn't stop them then nothing will.

 

[Random Task]

I don't think anything falls into that category unless you're engaging someone directly in an abusive manner, talking about a particular person or persons in an abusive manner, or inciting something unlawful.

As far as I'm aware, it isn't illegal - per se - to hold, say, what most people would call racist views. If this same idiot had posted that he was firmly against interracial marriage (but without attacking anyone or addressing anyone directly), I doubt it would've been possible to jail him for it.

A good example that.

 

[hobbers]

Jail time, while it does seem excessive, is basically the last resort. If the threat of going to prison doesn't stop them then nothing will.

Might stop the odd Brit tweeting after an England game, but the majority of abusive tweets in general come from abroad. Mostly from countries that dont give a shit about policing online speech.

 

[Random Task]

Might stop the odd Brit tweeting after an England game, but the majority of abusive tweets in general come from abroad. Mostly from countries that dont give a shit about policing online speech.

It's a start.

 

[Pickle85]

A 19 year old is by definition NOT a teenager please bite

This made me chuckle. I was about to steam in and then clocked the WT. Very good.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

I don't think jail is the right move. A fine and community service would've been more than enough. Seen as though they are jailing people I suppose they'll go after Africans/Muslims when United or other football clubs post anything about pride and they leave hateful, abusive and derogatory comments too.

Seriously next time a team posts anything in support of pride watch the Africans/Muslims and the abusive shit storm they bring. These are ones that live in the UK too so there's no reason they can't go arrest them if that's the road the police are going down.....won't hold my breath though.

 

[Sky1981]

The trans women example is a tough one, but if pushed to provide an answer, I'd say it was ignorance rather than hate speech? But again, it depends entirely on the context of the comment, the intent behind it.

The retard comment is a little more straightforward. Your grandad referring to mentally handicapped people as retards was commonly accepted in his time, no? To him, he's calling a spade a spade I guess. Not overly PC, perhaps, but it's doubtful there is ill-intent there.



They've come up with all manner of "solutions" to the problem, and not one of them has been successful. Kick it out, Black Lives Matter, Say No to Online Hate and the numerous other campaigns designed to battle online hate over the years just didn't have the impact required. It didn't even make a dent. Hate speech is more prevalent today than ever because the idiots swiftly discovered that their actions, no matter how harmful, came entirely without consequence. You can say whatever you like on Twitter and won't even get banned. Something had to be done. Jail time, while it does seem excessive, is basically the last resort. If the threat of going to prison doesn't stop them then nothing will.

Problem is when uou ostracized or calling out a racist. Very seldom they realized they're wrong

Most would resent and cultivate their hate even more. Just more closed about it but the hate itself isnt there.

The society hasnt been so kind to racist. Rightly so but it also a two edged knife.

We should educate why humans are created equal. Insteal of hitting them with a bigger stick

We should not be racist because it has consequences. But because we believe eveyrone is equal.

The current mechanism vs racist only emphasizes on penalty

The jailed kids would have 50/50 chances. Either he repent or he become more rooted in his hate for colored people because in his eyes they're the cause of their misery. Again in his view theyre the good guys.

 

[Lay]

I thought this thread would just have posts praising the sentencing.

 

[united_99]

I thought this thread would just have posts praising the sentencing.

Did you join the Caf only recently?

 

[Posh Red]

So if people criticize and call him out for his poor performances, you're saying they should be sent to jail?

Just for saying you’re English?

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I don't think jail is the right move. A fine and community service would've been more than enough. Seen as though they are jailing people I suppose they'll go after Africans/Muslims when United or other football clubs post anything about pride and they leave hateful, abusive and derogatory comments too.

Seriously next time a team posts anything in support of pride watch the Africans/Muslims and the abusive shit storm they bring. These are ones that live in the UK too so there's no reason they can't go arrest them if that's the road the police are going down.....won't hold my breath though.

 

[Champ]

I don't think jail is the right move. A fine and community service would've been more than enough. Seen as though they are jailing people I suppose they'll go after Africans/Muslims when United or other football clubs post anything about pride and they leave hateful, abusive and derogatory comments too.

Seriously next time a team posts anything in support of pride watch the Africans/Muslims and the abusive shit storm they bring. These are ones that live in the UK too so there's no reason they can't go arrest them if that's the road the police are going down.....won't hold my breath though.

Please tell me this isn't a serious post???

 

[dannyrhinos89]

Please tell me this isn't a serious post???

So it's OK to leave abusive and derogatory comments about gay people then?

Fair enough.

 

[AndersB]

So it's OK to leave abusive and derogatory comments about gay people then?

Fair enough.

I don't think he is trying to argue that, but referring to your using a racial / cultural stereotype in a blunt and generalizing way, instead of just pointing to -persons- being abusive to gay people

 

[Random Task]

So it's OK to leave abusive and derogatory comments about gay people then?

Fair enough.

Of course it isn't okay. Who said it was?

 

[dannyrhinos89]

I don't think he is trying to argue that, but referring to your using a racial / cultural stereotype in a blunt and generalizing way, instead of just pointing to -persons- being abusive to gay people

Im really not generalising The proof is right there just type in United pride tweet then read the replies from Africans and Arabs. It's Not just one or 2 replies it's hundreds every single one of them leave hateful comments or nasty gifs.

All my point was if you are going to start imposing prison sentences for racial abuse online then that needs to go for everything.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Im really not generalising The proof is right there just type in United pride tweet then read the replies from Africans and Arabs. It's Not just one or 2 replies it's hundreds every single one of them leave hateful comments or nasty gifs.

All my point was if you are going to start imposing prison sentences for racial abuse online then that needs to go for everything.

It gets better & better.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

This has probably been pointed out but you do not have an absolute right to free speech. The example that is always used is that you cannot shout fire in a theatre. There are also laws about hate speech and incitement. I guess the question would be, why are you trying to defend the right to be racist?

You can't be a free speech absolutist because you are here on redcafe where you know any talk of certain subjects will be censored, so why then choose racism as the subject you do get all hypocritical about free speech on? Did you make the same speech when redcafe took away your right to free speech on Mason, or is it just now your principles got all important?

You've confused me with someone else.

 

[Wibble]

I don't think jail is the right move. A fine and community service would've been more than enough. Seen as though they are jailing people I suppose they'll go after Africans/Muslims when United or other football clubs post anything about pride and they leave hateful, abusive and derogatory comments too.

Seriously next time a team posts anything in support of pride watch the Africans/Muslims and the abusive shit storm they bring. These are ones that live in the UK too so there's no reason they can't go arrest them if that's the road the police are going down.....won't hold my breath though.

So you don't think racial abuse deserves such a harsh sentence because other ethnicities/races might engage in similar race hatred/bigotry, that in the scenario in your head might not get similarly punished.

That is a very long and probably imaginary bow you draw there. Not to mention involving significant racial/ethnic stereotyping.

Basically you post is a car crash into a dumpster fire.

 

[Davicho]

The worst decision ever... They are putting a bare, that they could handle. So in the end it will be a unfair decision.

 

[Sayros]

Problem is when uou ostracized or calling out a racist. Very seldom they realized they're wrong

Most would resent and cultivate their hate even more. Just more closed about it but the hate itself isnt there.

The society hasnt been so kind to racist. Rightly so but it also a two edged knife.

We should educate why humans are created equal. Insteal of hitting them with a bigger stick

We should not be racist because it has consequences. But because we believe eveyrone is equal.

The current mechanism vs racist only emphasizes on penalty

The jailed kids would have 50/50 chances. Either he repent or he become more rooted in his hate for colored people because in his eyes they're the cause of their misery. Again in his view theyre the good guys.

I agree with the sentiment, that's why I'm always leaning towards giving people a second chance for racism, but the problem is most racists hang out with other racists, have conversations among one another, it's hard to break in with some knowledge in an echo-chamber of ignorance and hate. But I definitely think things like cancel culture are a detriment more than anything because it marginalizes those people who form a stronger group among one another and we're now in that period of time where, in my country at least (USA), you're basically living in two different realities depending on which political affiliation you're associated with.

 

[VanDeBank]

Im really not generalising The proof is right there just type in United pride tweet then read the replies from Africans and Arabs. It's Not just one or 2 replies it's hundreds every single one of them leave hateful comments or nasty gifs.

All my point was if you are going to start imposing prison sentences for racial abuse online then that needs to go for everything.

Oh damn, I bet the Arabs and us Africans are sweating at the thought of the law being applied equally

 

[Sky1981]

Might stop the odd Brit tweeting after an England game, but the majority of abusive tweets in general come from abroad. Mostly from countries that dont give a shit about policing online speech.

Dont tar the world with the same brush. The UK has their own sets of racist as well.

And you dont actually police anything as of today. One simple example doesnt mean there's real policing yet.

If we start seeing reduced racist and people getting sentenced then maybe

 

[Champ]

I don't think he is trying to argue that, but referring to your using a racial / cultural stereotype in a blunt and generalizing way, instead of just pointing to -persons- being abusive to gay people

Exactly this.

Thank you.

 

[Champ]

So it's OK to leave abusive and derogatory comments about gay people then?

Fair enough.

I said nothing of the sort.

That's abhorrent too.

But what's also abhorrent is the way you are singling out race as the issue here (clue: its culture and history not race) and the language you are using.

It's racist in itself and you are being demeaning.

 

[Judas]

This thread needs burning to the ground.

 

[NoPace]

I'll never understand why fairly onerous and intense community service isn't used instead of incarceration in non-violent situations like this.

 

[NoPace]

Im really not generalising The proof is right there just type in United pride tweet then read the replies from Africans and Arabs. It's Not just one or 2 replies it's hundreds every single one of them leave hateful comments or nasty gifs.

All my point was if you are going to start imposing prison sentences for racial abuse online then that needs to go for everything.

So this guy is a racist, but his thought pattern, which is probably not dissimilar to how most cops think, illustrates how this sort of criminal sentence, when you look back in a few years, will prove to ultimately be yet another tool to disproportionately incarcerate non-white people at a higher rate. I don't really see any reason why online spaces will be different though I suppose they could be even worse in terms of over-policing minorities, or an improvement.

 

[Sky1981]

So Rashford actually file a report to have him charged?

 

[Lay]

Did you join the Caf only recently?

I don’t know man, maybe I have too much faith but it seems like a very simple topic.

 

[Jippy]

So Rashford actually file a report to have him charged?

It doesn't work like that in the UK. The Crown Prosecution Service decides if it's in the public interest and there's enough evidence to pursue charges against a suspect.

 

[jackal&hyde]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Only six weeks but still, good.

Sounds like it was a kid that did it and the sentence is right imo as a warning to be mature and take things like this seriously rather then treat social media messages like a joke that does not affect people.

More of this needs to happen as I think most are send by kids that do not understand the effect this behaviour can have on people.