Man United begin contract talks with Eric Bailly

[United58]

This is madness. Surely we run down the contract and take the financial hit? How will a new contract magically make him injury free and a decent defender?

 

[Leftback99]

No different to Jones or Rojo. Liability.

 

[Oldtraffordboy]

Bailly gets better in the minds of our fans the less he plays.

 

[A-man]

Sign him up, his record this season is great when hes played

I think he’s been good for most parts this season but I wouldn’t call his record great, it’s more in line with the overall performance of the team. If we look at PL:

We have got 14 points in Bailly’s 7 PL matches which is 2 points per game and same as our average over the full season.
His 7 PL games have a goal difference of 9-10 or translated per game, 1.3-1.4, which could be compared to 2.1-1.0 without him.
We have 3 clean sheets in the PL when he has played, compared to Maguire /Lindelof who have 9 clean sheets in 21 matches.

 

[RedDevilzFox]

Bailly gets better in the minds of our fans the less he plays.

Its so true. Some players get better and more capable longer they are out of the game.

 

[Matt851]

I can see why we would want to extend his contract and if handled shrewdly we could do so in a way that would minimise the chances of hom becoming deadwood. However, there is very little chance of us doing this, we will probably end up paying him at least twice what anyone else would only for him to get injured.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Such a stupid decision.

A decent defender that is constantly injured.

Absolute madness

 

[slir32]

Need to clear him out and have Lindelof as first choice sub.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

Will United seriously not learn their lesson?

Giving crocks new contracts. Ffs.

 

[Ekeke]

I think he’s been good for most parts this season but I wouldn’t call his record great, it’s more in line with the overall performance of the team. If we look at PL:

We have got 14 points in Bailly’s 7 PL matches which is 2 points per game and same as our average over the full season.
His 7 PL games have a goal difference of 9-10 or translated per game, 1.3-1.4, which could be compared to 2.1-1.0 without him.
We have 3 clean sheets in the PL when he has played, compared to Maguire /Lindelof who have 9 clean sheets in 21 matches.

Bailly
9 clean sheets in 15 games in all comps
13 goals conceeded in 15 games. But with 6 conceeded against Spurs as an outlier, so just 7 goals conceded in the 14 other games. 1 goal every 2 matches other than Spurs, amazing record.
9 clean sheets in 15 games in all comps

Maguire
46 goals conceeded in 42 games in all comps. But with 6 conceeded against Spurs as an outlier, so 40 conceded in the 41 matches other than that.
17 clean sheets in 42 games in all comps

Lindelof
32 goals conceeded in 31 games in all competitions, if we exclude Leicester where he played rightback
13 clean sheets in 31 games in all comps

 

[sokol11]

Bailly and Lindelof are good for rotation and injury cover. Feel like we are in a ledley king situation with Bailly where if he plays he is quite good but if he plays every week he breaks.

Ledley King situation? Only if you mean by injured same amount of time. Because on footballing ability Ledley King was leagues ahead of Bailly in every aspect of the game.

 

[Smores]

Bailly
9 clean sheets in 15 games in all comps
13 goals conceeded in 15 games. But with 6 conceeded against Spurs as an outlier, so just 7 goals conceded in the 14 other games. 1 goal every 2 matches other than Spurs, amazing record.
9 clean sheets in 15 games in all comps

Maguire
46 goals conceeded in 42 games in all comps. But with 6 conceeded against Spurs as an outlier, so 40 conceded in the 41 matches other than that.
17 clean sheets in 42 games in all comps

Lindelof
32 goals conceeded in 31 games in all competitions, if we exclude Leicester where he played rightback
13 clean sheets in 31 games in all comps

Personally i think he's been good but he's had a favourable bunch of games when you look at the stats in the context of difficulty of opposition.

 

[Champagne Football]

Will be good for Diallo to have his fellow countryman around to help him settle.

Louis Saha is an example of a player who was always injured but was still worth keeping around.

If Ole feels Bailly is improving his injury record, then he might be worth hanging onto for a while longer.

 

[Red00012]

We seem to be the gift that gives on giving in related to injury prone players.

 

[Ekeke]

Personally i think he's been good but he's had a favourable bunch of games when you look at the stats in the context of difficulty of opposition.

Of course he has. But those matches suggest we should play him more often and in tougher matches to see if he can keep it up. Because if he comes anywhere close to doing that it would be an improvement over Lindelof and Maguire's records. He can only impress in the matches he gets to play and in the matches he gets to play he has a great record

 

[SwedishFish]

We need 4 CBs in the rotation, if Bailly signs a new deal and we sign a new CB (still a big if), he will be 4th choice. We could do worse tbh.

 

[Isotope]

I thought with this newly appointed extremely competent DOF, things would be different. The benefit of hiring insider, or so I was told.

 

[Isotope]

Will be good for Diallo to have his fellow countryman around to help him settle.

You sometimes wonder if Fergie kept Anderson around longer than needed to try and keep Cristiano happy and settled.

Louis Saha is an example of a player who was always injured but was still worth keeping around.

If Ole feels Bailly is improving his injury record, then he might be worth hanging onto for a while longer.

Ronaldo left us in 2009, while Anderson was still here until 2015.

 

[Jericho]

We need 4 CBs in the rotation, if Bailly signs a new deal and we sign a new CB (still a big if), he will be 4th choice. We could do worse tbh.

A player unavailable because of injury isn't a choice.

 

[Champagne Football]

Ronaldo left us in 2009, while Anderson was still here until 2015.

Anderson lasted 8 years. That was about 4 years too much. True that Cristiano left long before. Apparently they were good mates. There were rumours Fergie liked having Anderson around due to his bubbly demeanor that brightened up the dressing room.
Maybe Ole feels same with Bailly. That he's the right kind of character to have around the place, even if he struggles to stay fit.

 

[Bondi77]

What would he be worth on the open market?

 

[A-man]

Bailly
9 clean sheets in 15 games in all comps
13 goals conceeded in 15 games. But with 6 conceeded against Spurs as an outlier, so just 7 goals conceded in the 14 other games. 1 goal every 2 matches other than Spurs, amazing record.
9 clean sheets in 15 games in all comps

Maguire
46 goals conceeded in 42 games in all comps. But with 6 conceeded against Spurs as an outlier, so 40 conceded in the 41 matches other than that.
17 clean sheets in 42 games in all comps

Lindelof
32 goals conceeded in 31 games in all competitions, if we exclude Leicester where he played rightback
13 clean sheets in 31 games in all comps

Bench players often get that kind of stats because they play all the easy cup matches. Especially if you, for some reason, exclude their worst performances from the stats. Williams has only clean sheets as example.

 

[The Original]

Bench players often get that kind of stats because they play all the easy cup matches. Especially if you, for some reason, exclude their worst performances from the stats. Williams has only clean sheets as example.

But Ekeke's point was simply that he has a great record, to which you replied that he doesn't. To take the tangent and switch to discussing the quality of opposition as being responsible for his great record, you must concede that point. He does have a great record. And if that is true, not having played against a higher calibre f opposition regularly cannot be an argument not to give him a new deal.

 

[A-man]

Personally i think he's been good but he's had a favourable bunch of games when you look at the stats in the context of difficulty of opposition.

Yes, exactly.
Bailly has played two bigger games, Spurs 1-6, and Leicester 2-2. Maybe we could add Milan to that.

Lindelof has played 13 bigger matches: 3x City, 2x Chelsea, 2x PSG, 2x Leipzig, 2xLiverpool, 2xArsenal.

Maguire has played most of the above matches.

 

[Beans]

Why bother? He's never fit. Move on.

 

[Water Melon]

Why bother? He's never fit. Move on.

I tend to agree with this. I like Bailly and am sure he can get into top form provided he is fit for at least half of a season. However, this seems to be a dream now, so indeed, why bother.

 

[Revan]

Some people seem to really hate new contacts on this place.

What's the alternative? Let him leave for free? He's worth at least £20 mil.

The exact same thing was said for Jones. Yes, absolutely let him leave for free. He is always injured, and not that great when fit. We have seen this movie playing with Jones and Rojo, no idea why we are doing it again.

 

[Revan]

Ronaldo left us in 2009, while Anderson was still here until 2015.

Yup. Ronaldo also was perfectly fine at United for 4 years before Anderson arrived (Ronaldo came in 2003, Anderson in 2007).

 

[MadDogg]

When Bailly's been fit this season we've been attempting to play him once a week, which you would hope would reduce the amount of injuries he's had. That works well for Lindelof to only play once a week as well, as he's been playing through a back injury for over 12 months now.

The problem is that even with Bailly only playing once a week, this is now the fourth injury he's had this season. What's the point?

 

[Classical Mechanic]

We need 4 CBs in the rotation, if Bailly signs a new deal and we sign a new CB (still a big if), he will be 4th choice. We could do worse tbh.

That's true. It depends on the contract doesn't it. It should reflect his unreliabilty.

 

[A-man]

But Ekeke's point was simply that he has a great record, to which you replied that he doesn't. To take the tangent and switch to discussing the quality of opposition as being responsible for his great record, you must concede that point. He does have a great record. And if that is true, not having played against a higher calibre f opposition regularly cannot be an argument not to give him a new deal.

The claim was: We should keep him because he has a great record.

United are a PL club and to be kept because of your stats, it must surely be stats against PL level clubs, not Luton, Watford or whatever else included in those stats.

Bailly has been given chances against quality teams, but it didn’t work out so well (Spurs and Leicester, 8 goals conceded).

It is weird to exclude the Spurs game from the stats when teams like Luton are included. If we had lost 1-4, would it be excluded? 1-3? 1-5? How bad must our defence perform, for a match to be excluded from the stats?

I would say the Spurs game doesn’t necessarily represent how he performs at the moment. He has been much better than that. Just like the first games with Lindelof/Maguire don’t represent how they perform now when they have 7 clean sheets in their last 11 PL matches (great stats imo). But the Spurs game indicates that he is capable of total meltdowns.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Will be good for Diallo to have his fellow countryman around to help him settle.

Louis Saha is an example of a player who was always injured but was still worth keeping around.

If Ole feels Bailly is improving his injury record, then he might be worth hanging onto for a while longer.

saha is an awful example.

he was great when he joined and for one half of a season.

Saha was a genuinely good player, but no he wasn’t worth keeping when he couldn’t be fit.

In retrospect, he should have been cut earlier.

Bailly isint good enough to be Maguire’s partner. As a third or fourth choice CB, fitness and reliability are massively important.

If Maguire or (currently) Lindelof are injured - can we rely on Bailly to step in.

no. That’s why he needs to go.

 

[MadDogg]

It is weird to exclude the Spurs game from the stats when teams like Luton are included. If we had lost 1-4, would it be excluded? 1-3? 1-5? How bad must our defence perform, for a match to be excluded from the stats?

Normally I would agree that you can't pick and choose which games to include, but the first few games of this season were a completely unique situation. Us not having a preseason was a huge issue, something that even the likes of PSG and City struggled with. I don't think any of those games should be held against any of our players too much.

 

[Caesar2290]

One of the things that I don't understand about our wage structure or football in general is why don't more clubs give a lower base pay and a higher appearance fee for injury prone players.

Let's take Bailly for example. So instead of giving him a 150k per week. How about giving him 40k per week and 100k per appearance. This way if he gets injured we aren't losing a ton of money. And if he plays he gets his 150K a week. If he can make 2 appearances per week, even better: that's 250K a week.

You'd think Woody and his corporate pals would know a thing or two about saving every last penny...

 

[A-man]

Normally I would agree that you can't pick and choose which games to include, but the first few games of this season were a completely unique situation. Us not having a preseason was a huge issue, something that even the likes of PSG and City struggled with. I don't think any of those games should be held against any of our players too much.

If we want to evaluate how good or bad our defence is, it makes sense to exclude the first matches. We have conceded 21 goals in our last 26 PL matches which is not too bad.

 

[Bogga]

I'd love to know how the talk goes when he gets a new contract. Lets say we offer him three more years with the same salary and he/his agent wants a raise... what arguments are there for a raise? I'd love to know what the agent says if so

 

[BeltUp]

He's a bit like Anderson under Fergie - worth keeping around for his character and it's a bonus if he is injury free.

 

[Wewinsoon]

Let him go

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Should be given a short term deal with the option of extending based on how many games he plays.

 

[stepic]

we can never admit defeat can we?