Man United's issue with referees is reported differently to other clubs - it influences decisions against us

robthered89 said:
There is a lot of inconsistency on reffing on display each week across the league.

But there is no evidence of a conspiracy. Just incompetence.

If we need a ref decision to go our way to beat teams in the bottom half of the league, we need to seriously look at how we are performing.
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I don’t think it’s necessarily a conspiracy per se but the refs are human beings who want as little bother as possible at the end of a workday and want to get on with their job and make some money.

Now if you’re a ref and you aren’t living under a rock you’ll definitely notice the amount of times your name is mentioned in the media and the context of it on the back of a call for United (Onana v Wolves, Dalot yellow v city), not to mention that the media reaction often drives demotions for the refs if there’s enough of an uproar that the officiating body feels it needs to react (Onana v Wolves saw both the ref and the VAR get demoted to the Championship = Loss of income).

If you then compare that to how much you’re mentioned if you make a call against United (just take the two decisions against Burnley with the disallowed goal and Walker’s stamp as examples, or AWB’s second yellow that he should’ve had against us when he slid through Dorgu’s ankle from behind) and you’ll subconsciously decide that giving a decision against United is more likely to save yourself a whole lot of bother than giving a decision for United, which will obviously influence your decision making.

Reverse the roles of the Burnley incident and imagine it’s Dorgu stamping on Kyle Walker lying on the floor. Do you really think the media reaction would’ve been the same (ie non-existent)? We didn’t even get a single replay of the incident while the game was ongoing. Think that happened if it’s the other way? If that was Dorgu, Alan Shearer would be going apoplectic on MOTD saying the ref’s looking right at it and going on about how it’s possible for both the ref and VAR to miss such an obvious stamp. Same as Semenyo’s throat grab. If that’s Dalot grabbing Semenyo you really think that goes away as quietly as it did with the roles reversed? That’s a potential four points on the table right there as both games ended in draws, so saying that we shouldn’t need refs to make correct decisions is a load of nonsense as every game can be influenced by a referee being biased given football games rarely end up with 4-0 wins. And if they do a decision at 2-0 up for the trailing team can heavily swing the momentum of the game. Especially this season that’s as tight as it is.

Edit: Damn you @HookedOnAPhelan
 
Whether it is because of the media or plain incompetence, there have been some blatant decisions against us.

Can't believe Casemiro got var red for grabbing someone's throat, when there have been many instances after when they don't do anything for the same accidents. You can't tell me the referee who was on VAR that day wasn't bias against United.

That said, the most obvious bias shown this season is Liverpool's extra time. It's laughable.
 
Never been a fan a race to the bottom where we notice we didn't get a throw-in where the ball ricochet off an opposition player's shin whereas several weeks later a rival team did get a throw-in under similar circumstances against another side. We can't go back and isolate multiple incidents from different games and compare them. In many way we want matches to be refereed based on the ecosystem and context of that match.

For example if we're watching a high-pressure, powder keg derby we probably wouldn't want the first tackle to be a yellow card. We'd want the referee to be a bit lenient and make allowances for the situation, for the occasion. If he's booking the first tackle - even if it was a bookable offence - there's slim chance we're finishing the match with 22 players. There needs to be some caution when it comes to pulling subjective decisions from different matches played by different teams under different circumstances - made by different referees - and demanding consistency because that's not always a good thing.

I don't think we'd ever really want discretion being erased from the game effectively because of precedent. If a referee thinks a tackle is a 50/50 booking, but doesn't want to give a yellow because he feels it's going to be better for managing the game if he doesn't, but feels obliged to because an identical tackle last week got a player a booking else he's going to be accused of double-standard refereeing, then we're going to end up in a place nobody wants us to be.
 
If you want any proof of this thread - look at the multiple hair pulls over the last few weeks and how only Martinez was “stupid”’and “giving the referee a decision to make”.
 
Wumminator said:
If you want any proof of this thread - look at the multiple hair pulls over the last few weeks and how only Martinez was “stupid”’and “giving the referee a decision to make”.
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Why don’t our clubs fork out massive money to try to control the media’s narrative regarding this referee issue? Feels like it may be worth even like a new signing.
 
Nyland said:
Never been a fan a race to the bottom where we notice we didn't get a throw-in where the ball ricochet off an opposition player's shin whereas several weeks later a rival team did get a throw-in under similar circumstances against another side. We can't go back and isolate multiple incidents from different games and compare them. In many way we want matches to be refereed based on the ecosystem and context of that match.

For example if we're watching a high-pressure, powder keg derby we probably wouldn't want the first tackle to be a yellow card. We'd want the referee to be a bit lenient and make allowances for the situation, for the occasion. If he's booking the first tackle - even if it was a bookable offence - there's slim chance we're finishing the match with 22 players. There needs to be some caution when it comes to pulling subjective decisions from different matches played by different teams under different circumstances - made by different referees - and demanding consistency because that's not always a good thing.

I don't think we'd ever really want discretion being erased from the game effectively because of precedent. If a referee thinks a tackle is a 50/50 booking, but doesn't want to give a yellow because he feels it's going to be better for managing the game if he doesn't, but feels obliged to because an identical tackle last week got a player a booking else he's going to be accused of double-standard refereeing, then we're going to end up in a place nobody wants us to be.
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I completely disagree on the "letting the first one go" refereeing.

Invariably ends with it all kicking off because the players haven't forgotten the ones let go earlier in the game when the ref finally decides to get a card out, and you end up with about 10 players booked (and often a soft second yellow) as the referee tries to regain control.
 
We seem to be a bit like Wolves last season, who seemed to be the guinea pig of every bad refereeing and VAR decision. I hope it all evens out next year, but this year has been torrid.
 
Lash said:
We seem to be a bit like Wolves last season, who seemed to be the guinea pig of every bad refereeing and VAR decision. I hope it all evens out next year, but this year has been torrid.
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Next year!
We need about 10 years to make up for all the decisions against us.
 
El Zoido said:
It’s been going on for years at this point.
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They use united to make an example, even when we were good and apparently had the refs in our pocket, we'd get weird decisions. Remember Scholes and Rooney getting red cards in a pre season friendly, then getting 3 match bans for the new premier League season? Something which hasn't been done before or since by the way.
 
I haven’t really seen the other hair pulling incidents so I could be wrong but aside from us getting the harshest treatment isn’t the difference really that DCL was on the floor for half a minute or so whereas the other two blokes got on with it? In a similar way, if Haaland goes down for that ‘headbutt’ against Arsenal that’s 100% a red card.

It’s sad but the game prioritises play acting and cheating behaviour.
 
Irwin99 said:
I haven’t really seen the other hair pulling incidents so I could be wrong but aside from us getting the harshest treatment isn’t the difference really that DCL was on the floor for half a minute or so whereas the other two blokes got on with it? In a similar way, if Haaland goes down for that ‘headbutt’ against Arsenal that’s 100% a red card.

It’s sad but the game prioritises play acting and cheating behaviour.
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Here you go, about 27 seconds in

 
A part of it is due to the media narratives too. Licha is often touted as a uniquely reckless, extra aggressive defender who lives on the edge and needs to be sent off a few times to be tamed. If you look at the PL, you would find so many players who do lot of shady stuff, but they are hardly called out.
But Ashley Young was a diver, though truck load of PL players went starfish in the box.

These kind of media narratives makes the ref go extra aggressive on our players, and that is apart from the usual urge to make an example out of United players all the time.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Here you go, about 27 seconds in

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It is a double standard but didn’t DCL make more of it (staying down for a bit)? Chelsea player seems to get back up straight away.

There’s no way on earth I think Martinez is a red card in any situation I’m just wondering if the player reaction made it so in this instance.
 
Irwin99 said:
It is a double standard but didn’t DCL make more of it (staying down for a bit)? Chelsea player seems to get back up straight away.

There’s no way on earth I think Martinez is a red card in any situation I’m just wondering if the player reaction made it so in this instance.
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It definitely does, same as Gabriel gets sent off if Haaland falls over clutching his face. Or a player that stays on his feet when tackled in the box goes down instead. It basically rewards those that play act, so you can absolutely see why they do it. You have to sell the foul otherwise you won't get it.
 
Martinez deserved a three-match ban for his horrible performance up to the point of his red card. We were a better team without him when he went off. The sending off gave Carrick and his crew the perfect excuse to distract from how bad we were that night.
 
Reds Under The Bed said:
Martinez deserved a three-match ban for his horrible performance up to the point of his red card. We were a better team without him when he went off. The sending off gave Carrick and his crew the perfect excuse to distract from how bad we were that night.
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Sounds reasonable
 
2 man midfield said:
It definitely does, same as Gabriel gets sent off if Haaland falls over clutching his face. Or a player that stays on his feet when tackled in the box goes down instead. It basically rewards those that play act, so you can absolutely see why they do it. You have to sell the foul otherwise you won't get it.
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Yeah that’s what I thought. I hate that it’s like this now and, despite his club, part of me does respect Haaland for not dropping to the floor as if he’d been shot even though that could have consequences in the title race.
 
Reds Under The Bed said:
Martinez deserved a three-match ban for his horrible performance up to the point of his red card. We were a better team without him when he went off. The sending off gave Carrick and his crew the perfect excuse to distract from how bad we were that night.
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Ahhh pure nonsense
 
I hate to go full tin foil here, and this is an exceedingly minor nit-pick after a win, but it did ever so slightly feck me off that Sky even brought attention to the "potential handball" in the first half when the ball quite patently hits Heaven above the shirt line.

To be fair, Carragher did agree with the ref's call not to give it, but the conspiracy theorist in me says that had it been any other team it wouldn't even have got a mention.
 
Mmm-Qatarian said:
I hate to go full tin foil here, and this is an exceedingly minor nit-pick after a win, but it did ever so slightly feck me off that Sky even brought attention to the "potential handball" in the first half when the ball quite patently hits Heaven above the shirt line.

To be fair, Carragher did agree with the ref's call not to give it, but the conspiracy theorist in me says that had it been any other team it wouldn't even have got a mention.
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On this subject I thought any handball leading to a goal is automatically ruled out? Because the Brentford player prior their goal handballed it and nothing was said.
 
Irwin99 said:
It is a double standard but didn’t DCL make more of it (staying down for a bit)? Chelsea player seems to get back up straight away.

There’s no way on earth I think Martinez is a red card in any situation I’m just wondering if the player reaction made it so in this instance.
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Amad’s been denied a few penalties for going down too easily when in fact he was bulldozed off the ball
 
Mmm-Qatarian said:
I hate to go full tin foil here, and this is an exceedingly minor nit-pick after a win, but it did ever so slightly feck me off that Sky even brought attention to the "potential handball" in the first half when the ball quite patently hits Heaven above the shirt line.

To be fair, Carragher did agree with the ref's call not to give it, but the conspiracy theorist in me says that had it been any other team it wouldn't even have got a mention.
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I did think the same thing. We've had blatant, match changing calls not given in the first half that don't get raised at all at half time.
 
2 man midfield said:
I did think the same thing. We've had blatant, match changing calls not given in the first half that don't get raised at all at half time.
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Injury time pisses me off as well, if we was chasing a goal tonight the ref would of blew bang on 95 minutes they always add an extra minute or two when another team is chasing a goal from us.
 
jymufc20 said:
Injury time pisses me off as well, if we was chasing a goal tonight the ref would of blew bang on 95 minutes they always add an extra minute or two when another team is chasing a goal from us.
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Injury time in general has been random since the last world cup. It always used to be 3 minutes unless anything unusual had gone on, but I actually didn't mind the 5 added tonight as even though literally nothing had happened, that does seem to be the new minimum.
 
The Cat said:
Said this in real time to my mate - it never even got shown again did it?
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No, same as the Collins / Mbuemo incident where he looked like he pulled him back when he was beyond him and possibly away towards goal
 
Sir Erik ten Hag said:
Why don’t our clubs fork out massive money to try to control the media’s narrative regarding this referee issue? Feels like it may be worth even like a new signing.
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We've got two "legends" of the club who are the two highest profile pundits on British television, but they spend most of their time shitting on the team and justifying horrific refereeing decisions against us that they might as well be Scousers.
 
Wumminator said:
Refereeing decisions matter. Massively.

As of now, we have had three decisions made on field against us that have been deemed incorrect this year.

Brentford not having a player sent off against us
Wolves not conceding a penalty against us
Martinez's goal disallowed v Burnley.

Two of those are game changing decisions. We are the club with the most decisions against us in the league.

You have to remember, for the majority of the journalists and commentators - we are everything wrong with football. Despite Man City, Chelsea and Newcastle being morally corrupt clubs - you still here 'We only hate Man United' when you go to away grounds. Teams like Stoke City and Bolton consider us proper rivals. As a result, every single person related to football wants us to fail and it costs us.

Look at the BBC match report for games:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/c8rv00xpk03t

"There are complaints over whether Collins should have been sent off for his grab at Mbeumo - the Premier League backed up referee Craig Pawson as it felt the former Mbeumo did not have control of the ball - and the huge delay between the award of the penalty and it being taken hardly helped Fernandes."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/cpv7zy412v3t

"Lisandro Martinez had a goal disallowed for a debatable push on ex-Manchester City defender Kyle Walker"

Both buried in the article. No articles. Nothing.

Dalot had a tackle (in which he won the ball) against Dorgu in the Manchester derby.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cn5616rve3eo - Article how it would be a red card in Europe

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cp3741nlep5o - Referee literally saying it was the right call.

It was literally mentioned within 2 minutes of the final whistle - despite it happening in the first ten minutes of the game.


Arsenal's game against Forest at the weekend:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/c3r1pevr38pt

First paragraph in the match report. A half hearted penalty appeal.

Because we are hated, our controversial decisions are swept away and ignored. Fans/Referees/Pundits realise fans want to hate United. They will face the path of least resistance by giving us nothing.

We should be calling this out.
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FFS, there's no conspiracy against United. It's because of daft crybabies like you that we ended up with VAR.
 
Sorry, tinfoil time again but I'm taking bets now on just how much time will be dedicated to discussing whether or not the ball scraped Sesko's fingernail on the second goal...
 
Mmm-Qatarian said:
Sorry, tinfoil time again but I'm taking bets now on just how much time will be dedicated to discussing whether or not the ball scraped Sesko's fingernail on the second goal...
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It'll be the main issue on the agenda, 2-3 minutes on that and precisely zero mention of the fact that Sesko was pulled back just before it and Liverpool should be down to 10
 
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