Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)

frookydinho

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Love Fletch, but this is to big a role. The DOF ideally is someone who can come in to United and run the football business. Maybe break the role down and have various characters all combining to form the DOF role. Bring in Paul Mitchell, let him become the transfer guru, manage all the scouts to identify the targets. Bring in Fletcher/Rio as advisors to Mitchell/Woodward.

But for Fletch to come in on his own with absolutely zero experience is to big a risk we can take right now. If the right steps are not taken now while we are at our lowest, then it will make a very long process become even longer. Very delicate times for us and crucial decisions need to be made.
 

soaphroniscuss

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The class system is being ignored on here. Football folk from the continent are not as marginalized as their UK equivalents and as such are easier to integrate into senior professional positions, post footy career, for all manner of reasons (incl. how they are seen and treated by others). Adding to this UK society fosters anti-intellectualism in certain corners and this has the effect of devaluing the benefits of formal training and formal systems within football.

We made a leap forward in the years post Wenger's arrival and it seems as if the current super coaches are having a similar effect now but there is still marked difference with how City work and Man Utd. We are still to some degree wedded to that notion of success by individuals pottering about in the proverbial shed or through acts of individual genius or inspiration rather than applying a more scientific holistic method. Our method of choice is more piecemeal, less grand in scope, relies on adhoc action and is this regard is very much like UK Plc.

By building a system you are less reliant on finding excellence to perform. You are less reliant on any one single individual and you are more readily able to plug and play people into positions.

Yes you do need talent to dominate and win the big prizes but with the right systems in place you would be far less likely to end up in the state that we are in with almost 1bn spent and little to show for it.

What does all of this say about the suitability of Ferdinand or Fletcher for the DOF position? It says it is more complicated then them just "understanding the club".
 
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Adnan

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We're not looking for a DoF it seems. But rather a technical director that will work with the recruitment team and manager in a committee style setup.
 

Ian Reus

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Let's just bring in the Fletch dog.
At least if it doesn't work out, the position will already be created and he would then need to be replaced.
 

Grande

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We could appoint Dong Fangzhuo as our director of football and it would still be an upgrade on Woodward. Really though there are two footballing models that every club should be copying now - Ajax or the Red Bull model at Leipzig (and Salzburg). These are the two most efficient organisations at identifying talent, maximising resources and having everyone at the club working on the same page.
You mean Dong Owen Fangzhuo?
 

Amir

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Not this nonsense again.

They didn't fail, because they didn't adhere to the 'United way' or they didn't 'get United'.

They failed, because BOTH were/are has been managers at the time we appointed them.
Yep. If I look at a club like Barcelona with their structure, I can absolutely see how a coach who doesn't fit their profile and system would fail. The club's DNA just wouldn't accept him. But United of recent years has been ripe for any manager to come and in implement whatever he wants. None of them has done a good job, though. It's as simple as that.
 

padzilla

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Not this nonsense again.

They didn't fail, because they didn't adhere to the 'United way' or they didn't 'get United'.

They failed, because BOTH were/are has been managers at the time we appointed them.
I agree completely, we are always trying to appoint someone who has peaked already both on and off the pitch rather than hire a hungry up and comer who has shown tremendous like Fergie had in the mid 80s.
 

Saf94

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Not this nonsense again.

They didn't fail, because they didn't adhere to the 'United way' or they didn't 'get United'.

They failed, because BOTH were/are has been managers at the time we appointed them.
It’s not about the ‘United way’. Both managers tried to implement vastly different philosophies to what the players were used to before. They both failed because they couldn’t see out their visions. If we had backed them and waited long enough they both would have probably been successful but they just didn’t have the time to lay the foundations and get the right players for their systems.

My point was that we kept bringing guys in who wanted to vastly change the way we play but only give them a couple of years and then sack them halfway through completing the rebuild. It’s a problem because between managers we had no continuity or vision, we shouldn’t be getting managers who need to rip out the foundations and start again. We should have some identity and have continuity between managers just like Barca, Ajax etc do

It doesn’t matter if it’s the ‘United way’ or any other way we just need an actual plan and vision to execute on
 

Revaulx

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Seriously? Why not Robbo, or Cantona? I mean, if you're set on hiring old boys for the job, why not Joe Jordan or even Norman Whiteside. Just put their names on a slip of paper, put 'em all in a hat, don the blindfold and pick one.
It’s not that random; they seem to be targeting the old boys that were closest to Sir Alex, in the desperate hope that some of his magic might have rubbed off on them. Just like Leeds with Revie’s boys in the 80s.
 

Swordsman

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We should get an experienced guy for this role but don't expect Woodward/Glazer to approve it.

Experienced guy means he will demand the rightful powers to the role. Something which they will wanna hold on to. They must have been damn happy when Fergie finally left.

Now you want them to give it up, no way man...

Plus, Fletcher will be their shield to tank all the arrows when things go wrong. Experienced one will show them where the arrow should go, maybe even vocal like Jose.
 
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Marcelinho87

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Crackers this forum.

Nobody here can, with any substance claim to know how Darren Fletcher would get on as TECHNICAL DIRECTOR (not a DoF as people keep saying). Too many people spent time playing FIFA or Football Manager and sitting here voicing opinions over things they have NIL clue about.

Fact of the matter is, if the club hires Darren Fletcher we get behind him and Ole and the rest of the staff and we give it a damn good fecking go!
 

Suvvernmanc

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So we need another squad overhaul and with the end of the season upon us, we all hope to be signing players early, and early enough so the squad get a decent pre season in them. And yet we dont have someone in the position of technical director yet to guide the manager with a vision of where the club wants to be 3-5 years down the line. Mind boggling!

The 1st team needs to have a style of football that matches the youth levels. Nicky Butt is doing a great job but his ideas on football are different to Ole's. This needs to change.

The technical director has to be clued upon the domestic and European markets and have good contacts with agents, scouts, club owners and managers, to be able to pick the correct players to bring in. Rio Ferdinand, Darren fletcher etc wont be right for the job IMO.

The type of players we bring in have to be actually what we need and not just bought for the commercial value etc. For too long now we have seen many players come and go who were bought in for temporary success. Zlatan apart, I can't remember a big name player that has been a success here since Fergie. It's great if your Barca or City and your squad is stable with great players, you can afford to bring in 1 big name per season. We are looking at a situation where we literally need 7-8 new, starting 11 players before we even start to compete with our rival clubs. This means we either buy them all this summer for £300-400m or we have a plan for the rebuild over the next 2 or 3 seasons. This can only be done with Woody taking a back seat from his current role, and actual knowledgeable football men making the decisions. Does Woody understand this? I'm not sure.
 

Redfan94

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Going into the new season against a City squad with Guardiola and 3 technical directors, Liverpool with Klopp and a transfer board that has consistently identified quality players, and us, Solskjaer with Molde and relegation with Cardiff on his CV and Fletcher trying his hand at being a technical director for the first time.

You couldn’t make it up.
 

roonster09

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As I told cosmetic steps to fool the fans. They are acting like political goons now.
It was reported long back that 1 person won't be calling the shots, whoever appointed will be part of the team.

 

Valar Morghulis

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Crackers this forum.

Nobody here can, with any substance claim to know how Darren Fletcher would get on as TECHNICAL DIRECTOR (not a DoF as people keep saying). Too many people spent time playing FIFA or Football Manager and sitting here voicing opinions over things they have NIL clue about.

Fact of the matter is, if the club hires Darren Fletcher we get behind him and Ole and the rest of the staff and we give it a damn good fecking go!
Fact of the matter is, if the club hires Darren Fletcher David Moyes we get behind him and Ole Steve Round and the rest of the staff and we give it a damn good fecking go!

Get fecking in, none of us know anything about being a technical director thank God for Fletch!

Who needs critical thinking?
 

Inigo Montoya

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Going into the new season against a City squad with Guardiola and 3 technical directors, Liverpool with Klopp and a transfer board that has consistently identified quality players, and us, Solskjaer with Molde and relegation with Cardiff on his CV and Fletcher trying his hand at being a technical director for the first time.

You couldn’t make it up.
Brian Marwood, who is part of the City team, was appointed by Gary Cook. He had no experience apart from being a marketing manager for Nike

VDS had no marketing experience prior to taking up the role at Ajax

Michael Edwards does the job at Liverpool and is considered an internal appointment.

We want to do it but it's considered crap! Go figure
 

morbidsaint

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I wouldn't mind a team of people working with the manager. But
Why are people so against this? What experience did Marc Overmaas have when he became DOF at Ajax and see what a great job he has done
Experience is Redcafe's most valued attribute. It is the only "qualification" they seek. It has to be the most used word on this forum. At least if someone like Fletcher is hired, the club is being run by people that have the same idea on how Manchester United should be run both on and off the pitch. I don't know if this is the way to go, but we sure as hell already tried the way of experience. I say make up a team of Paul Mitchell, Fletcher and Ole and the coaching staff. Then we pray.
 

Patrick08

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Or just part of the Comittee that has been reported for quite a while now.
It was reported long back that 1 person won't be calling the shots, whoever appointed will be part of the team.

It will just have the powers to say yay or nay on the players and targets being discussed about, without having a long term strategy and ground work which goes into signings which helps the club to be proactive and recruit smartly beating the top competition while minimizing the cost of a rebuild in the process.
 

roonster09

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It will just have the powers to say yay or nay on the players and targets being discussed about, without having a long term strategy and ground work which goes into signings which helps the club to be proactive and recruit smartly beating the top competition while minimizing the cost of a rebuild in the process.
No one knows that their role is but going by previous reports it's more than just yes or no for transfers.
 

Cassidy

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It will just have the powers to say yay or nay on the players and targets being discussed about, without having a long term strategy and ground work which goes into signings which helps the club to be proactive and recruit smartly beating the top competition while minimizing the cost of a rebuild in the process.
Says you
 

ayushreddevil9

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Atleast there are noises coming out in the press. Hopefully this gets resolved soon and we start making some signings
 

Mainoldo

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These things are quite easy to understand. There are documentaries on clubs all over the net from Barcelona to Juventus to Man City and even Sunderland.

You would be surprised how simple these things are. Like I’ve mentioned before.. ‘let’s try and sign Ballack’ 5th place Barcelona say going nowhere in the football world. However I’d rather these conversations take place with ex knowledgeable pro’s and people within the game with abit of experience like your Paul Mitchell, than Ed and his crew.

However this only ever looks good if your Manager is doing his job getting the best out of his players.
 

RuudTom83

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Reality is Woody is in charge and that isn’t going to change. He is just putting a few bodies in front of him to protect himself.

Like Jose said at the start of the season...don’t call me the manager!
 

Cassidy

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Reality is Woody is in charge and that isn’t going to change. He is just putting a few bodies in front of him to protect himself.

Like Jose said at the start of the season...don’t call me the manager!
Jose and the club scouts didn't agree on transfers. Any club even if they have a DOF they all answer to the one who cuts the cheque and thats the CEO
 

RedMachine03

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From BBC Radio (reddit) -
Stone: Fletcher has held talks with Man Utd about a role. Man Utd want someone who has knowledge of the club, who can fill in the gaps of the overall structure. Idea is to fill in the gaps between Woodward, Matt Judge who does contract negotiations, etc. Want him to coordinate between.

As of yet no offer from Man Utd for Darren Fletcher. He would consider it, but none as of yet.

Fletcher could held with recruitment, talking to potential signings. But more committee approach.
 

ti vu

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I am not saying he's a good choice but what makes him a bad one?

He's coached at the club, done badges, from all anyone knows on here he could excel at analysis of the game

Paul Pogba couldn't force himself into Sir Alex Ferguson's Manchester United team because of ill-disciplined displays in the club's reserve side, according to Darren Fletcher .

The former United midfielder did some coaching with the club's second string while Pogba was trying to make his way in the game, and says they had to play the Frenchman further forward because he wasn't suited to the centre of the field at that time.

"I did a spell coaching with the [Manchester United] reserve team which included Paul Pogba, Jesse Lingard, Ravel Morrison - a lot of talented players," the Stoke midfielder said on Sky Sports' Monday Night Football coverage of Huddersfield's 1-0 win over Fulham.

We played [Pogba] a lot higher up the pitch in attacking areas and we felt like he was the one that could go and win us games really.

"A combination of the fact that we felt he had a little bit of ill-discipline in the middle of the park as more of a central midfielder."

And it was that ill-discipline that was clearly on Ferguson's mind when a midfield selection crisis forced him to cobble together a side for a league game against Blackburn on New Year's Eve 2011, which forced Pogba to decide to leave.

"It goes back to that famous game which we though he left Manchester United off the back of, when we lost to Blackburn 3-2," continued Fletcher.

"Everyone was injured really, all the midfielders - Ji-sung Park, Phil Jones and Rafael had spells in midfield, and Paul was on the bench.

"I think at that time we didn't think he was disciplined enough for the reserve team so to then to jump into the first team in an important game - people can see why [we didn't start him]."

Pogba left United for Juventus on a free transfer that summer, only to return for £89m four years later.

And Fletcher says he still thinks Pogba is better suited to be on the attack

“I like to see him in the final third and creating things," he added.

“He played for Juventus [on the left] and I spoke before about his connection with [Anthony] Martial. Pogba can easily drift out wide. He can also get in the box, he’s a big lad. I’d love to see him with a bit more freedom to express himself.”
Sound like proper apologist.

This same Pogba then soon found no problem breaking through into Juventus team. Rafael, Jones and Park as midfielder and the next he talked about discipline as midfielder... And now Fletch is supposed to work with the man who sanctioned world record fee at time to bring Pogba back.

Fletch was sidelined by his illness, doing this badge, but all in all he had been an active player. It's never too early to advent into coaching. If anything, the whole Fletch clinging to a playing career and ended up at much lower division is negative than anything. Why didn't he spend more time in management when his playing career at top level look bleak? Even someone with talent, development and experience is important. Make it sound afterthought of a person who has no clear go and go about things to stay relevant!
 

clarkydaz

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From BBC Radio (reddit) -
Stone: Fletcher has held talks with Man Utd about a role. Man Utd want someone who has knowledge of the club, who can fill in the gaps of the overall structure. Idea is to fill in the gaps between Woodward, Matt Judge who does contract negotiations, etc. Want him to coordinate between.

As of yet no offer from Man Utd for Darren Fletcher. He would consider it, but none as of yet.

Fletcher could held with recruitment, talking to potential signings. But more committee approach.
Doesnt sound a particulary elaborate or important role from this
 

ti vu

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1. Solskjaer tells Fletcher he wants young and hard working players like Wan-Bissaka and Rice.
2. Fletcher relays that to Woodward.
3. Woodward tells Fletcher that United is like Disneyland and they should buy star attractions like Bale and Dybala.
4. Fletcher relays that to Solskjaer.
5. ??? Don't know but it will probably involve lots of articles about United being in disarray and people in the transfer forum getting angry. Maybe some sort of compromise where we sign two Solskjaer players and two Woodward players.
There has been a chance that compromise has been the way thing is post SAF. Look at the state of our club, and do ask whether it's a good at to continue.

What if OGS can't last as other post SAF coaches? Isn't it a new mess of individuals for the next manager? Where is the structure to make sure things go a certain plan despite failure?
 

starman

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Sound like proper apologist.

This same Pogba then soon found no problem breaking through into Juventus team. Rafael, Jones and Park as midfielder and the next he talked about discipline as midfielder... And now Fletch is supposed to work with the man who sanctioned world record fee at time to bring Pogba back.

Fletch was sidelined by his illness, doing this badge, but all in all he had been an active player. It's never too early to advent into coaching. If anything, the whole Fletch clinging to a playing career and ended up at much lower division is negative than anything. Why didn't he spend more time in management when his playing career at top level look bleak? Even someone with talent, development and experience is important. Make it sound afterthought of a person who has no clear go and go about things to stay relevant!
Dude, what are talking about? SAF picked the team, not Fletcher. He said he preferred him playing further up the pitch rather in a defensive role, something that holds true today...
The position United was short at the time during the injury crisis was in defensive positions, hence why Rafael was put in midfield.
At Juv Pogba was eased into the team with players like Pirlo, Vidal & Marchisio, not with the likes of Park and Rafael next to him
If he had Carrick partnering him he may have started. Iirc we were so short Carrick needed to play CB...
 
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ti vu

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I agree completely, we are always trying to appoint someone who has peaked already both on and off the pitch rather than hire a hungry up and comer who has shown tremendous like Fergie had in the mid 80s.
Your point is with hindsight.

SAF is a special case. The man adapted over tim, and hunger never filled. However, his achievement pre United could have been many other others managers' peak: winning Scottish league on more than one occasion with a team not Glasgow. Then win Winner Cup winners going past historically giants such as Real Madrid and Bayern.

Can you easily distinguish a man like this from other from others? Or you would likely end up with another Moyes?
 
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glazed

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It's very clear that Gary Neville gets it. While he's not DoF material, he's probably the ideal person to decide who the ideal person is.
 

ti vu

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Dude, what are talking about? SAF picked the team, not Fletcher. He said he preferred him playing further up pitch rather in a defensive role, something that holds true today...
The position United was short at the time during the injury crisis was in defensive positions, hence why Rafael was put in midfield.
At Juv Pogba was eased into the team with players like Pirlo, Vidal & Marchisio, not with the likes of Park and Rafael next to him
If he had Carrick partnering him he may have started. Iirc we were so short Carrick needed to play CB...
Point is Fletch was doing an apologist work for SAF decision which has proven to be a mistake. And being apologist here is the underlying point. His time coaching the reserve is very very irrelevant too as explained. He was not fully committed as a coach being caught in crossroad still want to continue his playing career. It's more about completing coaching badge which many do on their free time but never become a professional coach.

No need for another 4 attackers to further unbalance the set up. Welbeck Nani Berbatov Chicharito. That's too taxing on the rest of the team. It's not asking Pogba to start. He was an unused sub while that line up stink up the place. Anderson was not that good but he was still midfielder and not long ago in the same season featured as central midfielder! He got on eventually, but that's out of desperate which ended up cost Pogba the minutes.

Rafael Carrick Jones Evra

Valencia Anderson Park

Nani Welbeck/Chicharito Berbatov

That would have seen us being more stable and not playing catch up all game thus an unused sub.
 

starman

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Point is Fletch was doing an apologist work for SAF decision which has proven to be a mistake. And being apologist here is the underlying point. His time coaching the reserve is very very irrelevant too as explained. He was not fully committed as a coach being caught in crossroad still want to continue his playing career. It's more about completing coaching badge which many do on their free time but never become a professional coach.

No need for another 4 attackers to further unbalance the set up. Welbeck Nani Berbatov Chicharito. That's too taxing on the rest of the team. It's not asking Pogba to start. He was an unused sub while that line up stink up the place. Anderson was not that good but he was still midfielder and not long ago in the same season featured as central midfielder! He got on eventually, but that's out of desperate which ended up cost Pogba the minutes.

Rafael Carrick Jones Evra

Valencia Anderson Park

Nani Welbeck/Chicharito Berbatov

That would have seen us being more stable and not playing catch up all game thus an unused sub.
Everything you are saying is in hindsight, theres nothing wrong with what Fletcher said. The mistake was not tying Pogba down and allowing Raiola to manipulate a move away.
He could have played and still moved. There's alot made about the Blackburn game but it was one day before Pogba was able to talk to clubs. Also Scholes came out of retirement days later and theres no chance of him displacing him at the time when United was in a battle with City.
At Juv they were walking the league, its a hell a lot easier to pick up trophies and in the process ease him into the team. He did not walk straight into the first XI
 

ti vu

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Everything you are saying is in hindsight, theres nothing wrong with what Fletcher said. The mistake was not tying Pogba down and allowing Raiola to manipulate a move away.
He could have played and still moved. There's alot made about the Blackburn game but it was one day before Pogba was able to talk to clubs. Also Scholes came out of retirement days later and theres no chance of him displacing him at the time when United was in a battle with City.
At Juv they were walking the league, its a hell a lot easier to pick up trophies and in the process ease him into the team. He did not walk straight into the first XI
Everyone should be aware of that it's one thi to decide everything. The point is Pogba name dropped this game as one of the big reason. Fletch response was that of apologist. Bringing that bit as I explained gave negative view than positive. Remember this is the main point of the discussion, not Pogba case.

Juventus before getting Pogba only just won their first title, which Milan capitulated on a position of strength both in term of status, and that season with Juventus coming from behind to claim the title. Pogba was joining the club who would face strong pressure to retain their title with trusting. Juventus ain't the most well liked club among the Italians if you ever noticed. Same club ain't following any giving youth chance philosophy. Does it sound like an assuring environment for young player to find an easy way, if not for one's own confident to join such club at that moment in time? Juventus was in no way in better position than SAF in that short period before SAF retirement.

You told me I am talking with hindsight when you're the same following that logic!
 
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