Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by RedMachine03, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. Oct 8, 2019

    Johan07 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,787
    What about Dan James then? No credit to our scouting network there either?
  2. Oct 8, 2019

    romufc Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2019
    Messages:
    1,945
    He clearly wants someone he can control, he thinks he can run the whole club on his own and having people that are his puppets.
  3. Oct 8, 2019

    POF Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Messages:
    2,815
    Yawn.

    The complete opposite of what a Sporting Director/Director of Football would do.

    Look at the table in this article:

    The role is exactly what the club needs right now. Completely rebuild the squad in a cost effective manner. The current plan of spending £80m on every player is an issue if you need 10 new players.
  4. Oct 8, 2019

    romufc Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2019
    Messages:
    1,945
    Only time will tell how good he is. He started well but lets see how he gets on for the rest of the season.
  5. Oct 8, 2019

    United Hobbit Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Messages:
    699
  6. Oct 8, 2019

    Adnan Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    15,036
    Location:
    United Kingdom, England
    Monchi and Zorc are both considered amongst the best DoFs in the business. Both work with scouts from within their own network. So if a top notch DoF is brought in with a proven record, then it's only sensible to provide him with the best conditions to succeed in the job.

    Or the alternate choice is to have someone from within the club step up and be the driving force like a Marcel Bout. Barca, Dortmund, Ajax etc have developed their own people to head the football department and were internal appointments. And that very well might be the best way forward for continuity/longevity.
  7. Oct 8, 2019

    Johan07 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,787
    He would be my best bet and also a good choice IMO.
  8. Oct 8, 2019

    Loon Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    4,610
    Location:
    No-Mark
    I thought it was essentially Ryan Giggs who suggested Solskjaer buy him?
  9. Oct 8, 2019

    Bastian Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2015
    Messages:
    8,155
    I think it would be an absolute blessing having a top class DoF come in who might retain some of the current scouts but ultimately brings his own team. Do we honestly think that given how the club has been run that those 58 scouts are proving fruitful? Why would that be any different than stockpiling average players?

    For me it's needs to fit the same criteria as a new manager - someone external who has more ambition than the club has hitherto shown. Someone who will not accept the feckaboutery that's been going on here for years. Appointing someone from within will just be another lackey who will thank his lucky stars to get a shiny new job with no authority.
  10. Oct 8, 2019

    Alabaster Codify7 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2015
    Messages:
    4,167
    Location:
    Wales
    Thread needs to die.

    We are never getting one. Even if we ever did, it will be some inexperienced former 'United old boy' who will just be happy to be the public, fan-friendly face to take Woodward out of the line of fire.

    If we ever were targeting one, it should come as no shock they were considering people like Darren fecking Fletcher and Mike fecking Phelan.

    Former United legend in the manager's seat; former United man as 'DOF' = a nice human shield to protect Woodward from criticism and fan backlash.
  11. Oct 8, 2019

    Adnan Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    15,036
    Location:
    United Kingdom, England
    The scouts tbf can only do so much. Unless the whole football side of the club pulls in one direction I feel the potential of the scouts cannot be judged. The same scouts had identified Sadio Mane as a player who was capable of delivering at the club much to the dismay of many posters on here. Felipe Anderson was another according to reports. Under Mourinho it was reported the Portuguese used his own independent scouts for his type of football. So unless we get lucky with a genius like manager, I can't see a solution without a clear vision from top to bottom. Currently we have Ole in charge who seems to want to sign predominantly British players, which will narrow the pool of talent for the scouts to identify and will lead to more frustration from fans regards players we miss out on.

    Currently the manager dictates the style/direction of the club which the scouts have to keep in mind when identifying talent for the first team. Having a DoF who implements a strategy going forward which aligns with our traditions/ethos is the way forward and would open up many more potential targets in the longrun and we'd see better players arrive at the club without pigeonholing ourselves like we're doing now.
  12. Oct 8, 2019

    Fluctuation0161 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,712
    Location:
    Manchester
    Totally agree. I was actually thinking about this on the drive to work today. Bloody Woodward. :lol:
  13. Oct 8, 2019

    Fluctuation0161 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,712
    Location:
    Manchester
    Not sure why you "yawn". It makes a valid point. If a DOF wants to aim for titles but Woodwards strategy is only to get top 4 with minimal investment, then it could eventually come out in the media and hurt Woodwards piblic image and grip on the club.
  14. Oct 8, 2019

    Bastian Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2015
    Messages:
    8,155
    We're in complete agreement with regards to the need for a DoF. I have serious doubts as to whether the manager now (or the last 3) chose any direction or decided on most of the players. So the from "top to bottom" approach has me wondering what's top besides people with no serious knowledge of the game. Hence, I want competency brought in. I think it's far more likely that if we approach a top manager or a top DoF that they would not want to join unless the structure is right and they have commensurate authority. Promoting from within is more likely to result in a shadow-puppet.

    You're right that of course the scouts can't be evaluated - given the structure. But I'd trust a proven DoF to evaluate the scouting network and change as they saw fit.
  15. Oct 8, 2019

    Adnan Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    15,036
    Location:
    United Kingdom, England
    Agree with most of what you're saying.

    Our biggest issue in the last 6/7 years IMO has been to give said managers too much control as far as recruitment goes, and it's back- fired spectacularly with the huge sums that have gone out of the club with very little to show sadly. A manager giving a list to the CEO at the end of the season is such a outdated way of doing things that I can't get my head around it.

    A DoF would do the same as far as giving a list of names to Woodward. But the difference would be that he would've done the leg work in holding talks with the players reps many months prior and would have a good understanding of the personality/back ground of said transfer target which would help in closing the deal sooner. The DoF would also build up a rapport with potential transfer target and his family which also would be advantageous.

    I'd love to see the likes of Campos given the reigns. But I believe Dutchman Marcel Bout with someone like Murtough as Head of Recruitment could work as internal appointments. Bout is a world class scout and has has worked in several different countries and excelled at his work. He's also been tasked with scouting the opposition at the highest level and will have a very good understanding of the tactical side. Ticks alot of boxes.
  16. Oct 8, 2019

    AneRu Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2019
    Messages:
    340
    Agree with you, in a lot of summers we are always the late bird to deals and sometimes by the time we come in for a player he has already agreed to go elsewhere. I think most of the clubs do the legwork for transfer deals from about March onwards and just seal the deals in the summer. Its impractical to expect a manager to focus on transfers during the run in and do his proper research then but if he has a football man he is in tune with then the necessary research, tapping up etc is done for him. Woodward just has to approve the financials.
  17. Oct 8, 2019

    Adnan Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    15,036
    Location:
    United Kingdom, England
    The difference between us and most teams in that regard is, the other teams have a DoF type figure in charge who has laid down the foundations for said player to be signed.
  18. Oct 8, 2019

    AneRu Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2019
    Messages:
    340
    This is what I meant, in agreement with you. We have a lot of players that we missed out on whereby he signs for a team whilst we are coming in with a bid. Having someone working fulltime on recruitment who also knows what he is doing will eliminate this.
  19. Oct 8, 2019

    Adnan Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    15,036
    Location:
    United Kingdom, England
    Agree wholeheartedly with you.
  20. Oct 8, 2019

    Bastian Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2015
    Messages:
    8,155
    Of course they have a network and they do due diligence. But for us, the biggest positive would be preventing Woodward and co. from sabotaging the club further. A DoF would ensure continuity so the chopping and changing in terms of managers (if we carry that on) won't have such a devastating effect as well.

    Campos makes a very good critical assessment of United, in a sensitive and polite manner (link in the post by @United Hobbit above):

    "If the coach is alone heʼs an easy target and he needs help. Everyone needs help in football. You canʼt play alone. Manchester United is an amazing club with an amazing story and for people around the world, it's difficult to understand what has happened to this club.

    Itʼs difficult to see this club in difficulty, but if this difficulty is arriving itʼs because you have one problem. In my opinion the problem is sensibility. Itʼs important to work together. Sporting with economy. If you donʼt put these things together I believe you are heading for disaster!

    I know very well the situation of Manchester United and other clubs - but, in my opinion, everybody needs a sporting director because the coach needs time to prepare for the next match and the super ego of the players too, so he needs people with sensibility. If a coach is alone it's more difficult now.

    A sporting director is very, very important. Of course I believe I could help Manchester United, but I respect the politics of the club. Itʼs very prestigious, very, very prestigious, but in modern football you need a sporting director. If you have a sporting director you have this sensibility.

    Before, the coach did everything, but now the information is arriving very fast. Now the world is very different. You need to know players in every part of the world. It's important the club has one project and with a sporting director everyone understands where they go.

    You need one person with the sensibility for the sporting and economic situation. In modern football you need both to work together. If they don't work together you have a disaster."
  21. Oct 8, 2019

    red thru&thru Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,077
    Campos clearly wants the job. We would be very negligent, AGAIN, if we don't offer the job to someone like him.

    Someone please just do NOT say we need someone in that role who 'understands the club!'
  22. Oct 8, 2019

    Cee90 Redcafe Fantasy Football Champion 2012/13

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    3,870
    Location:
    London | W201 Stretford End
    Random I know, but I saw Monchi in London today (in South Woodford / East London of all places).

    Wouldn't mind him at United of course.
  23. Oct 8, 2019

    Cee90 Redcafe Fantasy Football Champion 2012/13

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    3,870
    Location:
    London | W201 Stretford End
    It's a shame we never got to see him work with Jose at United to be honest.

    Could have been a very different story.
  24. Oct 8, 2019

    red thru&thru Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,077
    Mmm, I'm undecided on this. Campos is EXCELLENT at unearthing young talents. Jose recently has been about ready made, here and now. But I can definitely see Campos working very well with our 'latest startey' of young talent. Pair him up with the correct coach, we can start to make some real progress.
  25. Oct 8, 2019

    United Hobbit Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Messages:
    699
    I know they would only list his (Campos') better signings in that article and for all we know the list of duds may outweigh the list of great spots but I was reading them and thinking Please offer him the job!
  26. Oct 8, 2019

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    2,764
    Location:
    Fred | 2019/20 Performances
    What i think he and his small team of scouts are excellent at is evaluating players abilities in isolation and separate how their performance from the team/system they are currently playing in. Will they be able to perform at a higher level or do they have the foundation to potentially develope into a good player.
  27. Oct 8, 2019

    red thru&thru Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,077
    Look at the players he has brought through. Mbappe. Fabino. One's a world cup winner, the other a CL winner. But to answer your question fully, there is only one way to know!
  28. Oct 8, 2019

    bond19821982 Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,960
    Feck - looks like he is very keen. Just give it.
  29. Oct 8, 2019

    Eric's Seagull Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    3,100
    Location:
    4-4-2: The Flat One
    Said a while ago that I would like to have Luis Campos in. He seems to be interested. I would be very happy to get him in as the DoF.
  30. Oct 8, 2019

    AneRu Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2019
    Messages:
    340
    Naturally when you are working with a strategy that focuses on young players you will have some duds because there are too many variables and some players just don't have it. Just no one remembers the Kariuses and Klavans for Klopp no one will focus on Bakayoko when you have Bernado Silva, Mbappe etc.
  31. Oct 8, 2019

    United Hobbit Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Messages:
    699
    This article @Denis79 linked In the Ole as DOF thread is interesting. I am ashamed to say I didn't know who he was until the earlier article I found on Sky Sports as given we probably wont be appointing one I haven't looked into who would be good. However I'm liking what I read that's a mightily impressive list of players

    https://www.skysports.com/football/...ampos-the-transfer-chief-with-the-midas-touch

    This part particularly impressed me, not only cooling tensions with Mbappe's family but also working out the best development course for him

    "The day I arrived in Monaco - Kylian wasn't happy at the club. I remember meeting his family and the family saying he is not staying, he's not playing, we don't understand. So I watched him play for 10 minutes and I thought, 'He is an amazing player, he needs to stay in the clubʼ.
    "So I put him in the B team and within two months he made a difference. So he soon needed to be in the first team. In my opinion he's the next best player in the world."
  32. Oct 8, 2019

    clarkydaz Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    8,941
    Location:
    manchester
    Wasnt it like last week woodward said we dont need one as we signed 3 brits all by ourselves
  33. Oct 9, 2019

    jem Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    6,224
    Location:
    Toronto
    Get a room you two!
  34. Oct 9, 2019

    POF Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Messages:
    2,815
    The "yawn" is because it's nonsense. The club has spent absolute fortunes over the last 6 years. Are you saying that they deliberately spent it poorly so they would finish no higher than 3rd?

    Why does minimal investment guarantee you top 4 but you can't possibly win the league? There's nothing wrong with spending within a budget. That is exactly why you need a Director of Football so you don't waste hundreds of millions like United have in the last 6 years.

    No wonder Jose got sacked. Who did he think he is finishing 2nd? The plan is 3rd or 4th for crying out loud!
  35. Oct 9, 2019

    Rendezvous with Ronaldo New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2019
    Messages:
    161
    Supports:
    Hartlepool
    If you employ a DoF, and things don't improve at the rate fans want, what makes you think said fans will not demand a change of DoF at the same rate as they do a change of manager, thus completely defeating the 'continuity' aspect of any club philosophy?
  36. Oct 9, 2019

    red thru&thru Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,077
    All ifs and buts. But what is PLAIN AND SIMPLE to see, the current structure isn't working. You then have to look at the competition and say it working for them? Then once you figure that out, you plan to take their strengths, add it to your weaknesses and aim to be better than them!
  37. Oct 9, 2019

    Escobar Poster originally known as Michel04

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Messages:
    23,847
    Location:
    La-La-Land
    Something like that yeah. He is an idiot and he is about to ruin one of the greatest football club with his inability to run a football club
  38. Oct 9, 2019

    Fluctuation0161 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,712
    Location:
    Manchester
    The lack of investment started over 6 years ago from the owners. Look at our net spend since they came in.

    The club spent alot of money poorly in the years following 2013 but transfer fees are much higher now, they lurch between managers who require totally different styles of players and they are still paying off those transfers in installments. This has led to the low levels of net spend the last 2 Summer's. £65M per Summer.

    Minimal investment doesn't guarantee anything. That's the problem. But strategically, in the Glazers eyes, it has the potential to have the highest return on investment.

    For the record, finishing 2nd IS finishing in the top 4. Pull yourself together.
  39. Oct 10, 2019

    Cee90 Redcafe Fantasy Football Champion 2012/13

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    3,870
    Location:
    London | W201 Stretford End
    The more I read about Campo, the more I get annoyed that we didn’t appoint him under Jose.

    Although, on that FullTimeDevils YouTube channel when they interviewed Castles, he did say that Jose referred to external people for advice on transfers, so I would assume the likes of Campo had a say
  40. Oct 10, 2019

    luke511 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    4,379
    Massive need for a decision making suit that's not the manager, based in Manchester rather than London. Ed Woodward & co's disconnect in the London office must have it's negative effects, especially when they're in charge of contract renewals. A director of football based at Carrington is a must.