Man Utd vs AC Milan 15/8/26 15:45

[Zumbi]

Why does anyone bother doing it then! No one's expecting the finished article, but you can see patterns or style and generally how people will play together. I think it's obvious how we will be attacked against with them in midfield and that's not necessarily their fault, it's the construction of the team/squad not being able to cover for what they bring in their positive aspects. I don't really think they can do much about their lack of athleticism, but as a team, you need to account for it. I don't think we're equipped for that currently - I think even Carrick will probably think that.

I don’t think you can tell how players will play together based on their first ever time playing together, in 60 minutes of a pre season friendly. Partnerships take time to build. And I certainly wouldn't use the term “patterns” for it - patterns are what you identify from a meaningful sample size, which we don’t have yet.

Sure, the team needs to be constructed in a way that allows our players to flourish. That’s just not going to be figured out the first time they play together, in a pre season friendly where a bunch of the players have only just returned to the squad.

 

[gaffs]

Today was about giving game time to players who haven't had any or very little. It was therefore disjointed at times and defensively poor. We lost momentum after scoring handing the possession to them. That was disappointing but players aren't going to do anything too strenuous or risky one game out from the season start.

I agree. I don’t think anyone was really putting it in as the most important thing is to be fit for Hull.

 

[Lash]

I don’t think you can tell how players will play together based on their first ever time playing together, in 60 minutes of a pre season friendly. Partnerships take time to build. And I certainly wouldn't use the term “patterns” for it - patterns are what you identify from a meaningful sample size, which we don’t have yet.

Sure, the team needs to be constructed in a way that allows our players to flourish. That’s just not going to be figured out the first time they play together, in a pre season friendly where a bunch of the players have only just returned to the squad.

I'm sure they will gel better as they play together more, but you will see how we will try to attack and defend. I saw with Amorim how we were going to attack in pre season and had no idea how we were going to defend with our personnel - hence why a lot of us were dismayed at not going for a midfielder. There a similar parallels here. I think there are obviously more positives in how we will control possession higher up the pitch and have better quality on the ball with Santos and Tielemans, but there's no change to our defence and those two do not add the athleticism to counter how playing higher up the pitch will expose players like Shaw, Maguire, Martinez - who are our senior defenders.

Fair enough if you think we will be able to construct it with the players we saw today or those in the squad. I don't see it and I think teams who play physical, direct and mainly on the counter will be extremely difficult for us to defend with the current personnel. Remember it's only Tielemans and Santos who haven't played with each other. Santos has played the full pre season and Tielemans is a seasoned pro. It's not really those two that are the problem, it's the rest of the team that have played together for a long time.

 

[ron86]

Absolutely. The lemmings will remain lemmings no matter how bad it is on the pitch. For them everything is always great. It has been great the last 12 years. All the managers have always been right and always been good. I often wonder how someone can live that way. Its hilarious.

Some seem allergic to being a top side

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Pre-season and all, but that was a concerning performance from what I read.

We're also slowly getting worse with each pre-season performance.

I honestly thought we'd play much better today since the Prem is a week away.

 

[Tyrion]

Where as it's been mostly smooth sailing this past decade. Weird, eh?

Look, I feel reasonably positive about this season. But once again I'll say that it shouldn't come as a surprise that many aren't

It hasn't been bad every season. People where complaining constantly back when we were winning things. Its nothing new.

We've little to no chance of winning the league and it'd take half a billion to change that this summer.

 

[Tyrion]

Some seem allergic to being a top side

When we were a top side, people still freaked out. A portion of the fanbase is prone to hysterical negativity and another portion is prone to delusional optimism. We could win the treble this season or get relegated and we'd still have both groups all season long.

 

[Zumbi]

I'm sure they will gel better as they play together more, but you will see how we will try to attack and defend. I saw with Amorim how we were going to attack in pre season and had no idea how we were going to defend with our personnel - hence why a lot of us were dismayed at not going for a midfielder. There a similar parallels here. I think there are obviously more positives in how we will control possession higher up the pitch and have better quality on the ball with Santos and Tielemans, but there's no change to our defence and those two do not add the athleticism to counter how playing higher up the pitch will expose players like Shaw, Maguire, Martinez - who are our senior defenders.

Fair enough if you think we will be able to construct it with the players we saw today or those in the squad. I don't see it and I think teams who play physical, direct and mainly on the counter will be extremely difficult for us to defend with the current personnel. Remember it's only Tielemans and Santos who haven't played with each other. Santos has played the full pre season and Tielemans is a seasoned pro. It's not really those two that are the problem, it's the rest of the team that have played together for a long time.

I share the same concerns about our defence. But this back and forth started with a very specific assessment on Santos and Tielemans possibly adding some control and creativity to our midfield as (or not) and my point was simply that it’s far too early to write off their ability to improve us in that regard.

 

[Grande]

Unfortunately, I'm probably a lot more thoughtless than you are. Online forum talk and talk in general is cheap, which doesn't justify my next point but I don't place that much on throwaway comments. Anyways let's see after this game as I may show you what disproportionate really means!

Hehe. I try to stay away from matchday threads at least. Seeing Amorim and Bruno hugging heartily after that game must have sent you reeling towards suicide!

 

[Shakesy]

Interesting.

Over 90 minutes we’ve won only 2 of our final friendlies before the season started in the last 10 years (excluding two Community Shields)

 

[Lash]

I share the same concerns about our defence. But this back and forth started with a very specific assessment on Santos and Tielemans possibly adding some control and creativity to our midfield as (or not) and my point was simply that it’s far too early to write off their ability to improve us in that regard.

Yeah, I think that assesment has generally been a counter point to how we don't need as much athleticism, or replace Casemiros defensive contributions if we can control possession. Also as a result we'll create more from our attackers. I think there's little evidence to back that up so far and we're still conceding opportunities in the same way as last season. So I do think it's overplayed as something that will make us better than last season. As I said before, maybe in an exchange with you, I don't think what we will gain there, will vastly counter act what we've lost. We'll be roughly the same overall.

 

[Zumbi]

Yeah, I think that assesment has generally been a counter point to how we don't need as much athleticism, or replace Casemiros defensive contributions if we can control possession. Also as a result we'll create more from our attackers. I think there's little evidence to back that up so far and we're still conceding opportunities in the same way as last season. So I do think it's overplayed as something that will make us better than last season. As I said before, maybe in an exchange with you, I don't think what we will gain there, will vastly counter act what we've lost. We'll be roughly the same overall.

Not necessarily. I’ve argued both - that we need another, more athletic and defensive minded CM whilst also arguing that Tielemans and Santos will help provide us with some additional control and creativity that Casemiro was unable to provide. I also think that a lot of the reaction from today’s game has been pretty knee-jerk. We were slow and sloppy in a manner that is fairly typical for preseason, and not necessarily indicative of how we’ll play once the season begins proper.

 

[Lash]

Not necessarily. I’ve argued both - that we need another, more athletic and defensive minded CM whilst also arguing that Tielemans and Santos will help provide us with some additional control and creativity that Casemiro was unable to provide. I also think that a lot of the reaction from today’s game has been pretty knee-jerk. We were slow and sloppy in a manner that is fairly typical for preseason, and not necessarily indicative of how we’ll play once the season begins proper.

I guess as I have no inclination we'll sign another senior CM, that is bleeding into my assessment of today. There are big red flags for me with what I've seen in pre season, but luckily we play the shittuns first.

 

[Zumbi]

I guess as I have no inclination we'll sign another senior CM, that is bleeding into my assessment of today. There are big red flags for me with what I've seen in pre season, but luckily we play the shittuns first.

Ultimately if we don't sign a starting LB and another CM at the very minimum, then I'll consider this window a failure and be concerned about our ability to compete on multiple fronts this season. But I felt that way before we kicked off this morning, and am still very excited to see what Tielemans and Santos can bring to the table once they're settled in with the rest of the team.

 

[Bastian]

Interesting.

Over 90 minutes we’ve won only 2 of our final friendlies before the season started in the last 10 years (excluding two Community Shields)

That can’t be real.

 

[Alek M]

This was a great outcome to expose our areas needed to strengthen.

LB

CB - we have no marquee CB. None of out cbs would get in a top 6 clubs. Why we didn’t go after a proven CB is beyond me. Maguire is old and slow. Martinez health is questionable. Yoro and Heaven are way too young. And had anyone seen DeLigt.

 

[Zumbi]

That can’t be real.

On the upside we won 8/11 of the actual opening league games in that time.

 

[Bobski]

Just watched the highlights, on first view that pen Utd got looks one of the softest I can recall, was there a handball from the shot or something that I have missed?

Licha's running power for the 4th was a bit embarrassing, but first game back.

Pre-season, no need to overreact

 

[Mingus]

That can’t be real.

I'm choosing to believe that we are creating false weaknesses to throw Hull off the scent.

 

[Ish]

Agreed.

It's pre season. From some of our supporters you'd think we'd be nailed on for relegation despite strengthening from a third place finish.
I'm just waiting for the "Amorim was let down by the board" posts after this result

It felt like in the Fergie years our league performance was always inversely proportional to the pre-season results prior. Don’t know if the stats bear that out though.

Agreed with both and someone replied saying there’s something like a 60% correlation or something….which basically means it’s 50/50 (60/40 in this case). Alas, it’s annoying losing any match - even a preseason friendly (let alone against Amorim!)….but not too fussed. Hopefully we can get another signing or two across the board.

 

[Martial]

Is it better if our players were small-time enough to over-exert themselves to their detriment just for the "glory" of beating our former manager in pre-season game?

To me it shows a level of professionalism that they didn't get caught up in the emotions and noise of the game.

As long as they win when it actually matters in the league.

 

[Sky1981]

4-2 gotta say it's abit embarassing Amorim team can score 4 goals, friendly aside

 

[Stickz]

4-2 gotta say it's abit embarassing Amorim team can score 4 goals, friendly aside

That’s my biggest takeaway, conceding 4 to HIM.

 

[NewGlory]

4-2 gotta say it's abit embarassing Amorim team can score 4 goals, friendly aside

Our defense was trashy. Everybody except Lammens.

This cannot happen when the season starts. It was a horrible defensive performance.

 

[tjb]

Preseason so doesnt mean much. A lot of post over exaggerating how good individually and as a team our previous performamces been...also over egging how bad this result was.
Its pre season. Loads of negative responses on shaws performance and need to sign a lb...he was terrible....for me though, we still havent signed what we REALLY need. This talk of new tactics and two ball playing cm....our biggest problem for years is being easily over ran on the breal in cm, happened again today...its just a friendly but tielmans, mainoo, mount, santos as our cm doesnt solve that i fear...baleba is a bigger prority tham hall...dorgu or mazaroui can play lb...nobody has the legs or strength to solve our cm defensive problems

It does matter, just not as much as people want to state.There have been a lot of positives. The identity is clear, the system is recognizable, and we have the personnel to make it work. We've seen good structure, pressing, attacking combinations and, importantly, enough performances against stronger opposition to suggest this isn't just a preseason mirage. But Milan showed some potential weaknesses.

Milan under Amorim are awkward. Their 3-4-2-1, particularly the two attacking midfielders, makes the centre difficult to access and creates chaotic games.This is why we were better in the big games last season, because it was awkward for big teams to play against. I suspect this influenced Carrick's decision to keep Mazraoui wider rather than consistently tucking him into the back three. That meant we often played around Milan rather than through midfield, which made the game much more transitional than our previous matches. Add the poor pitch, heat, and players returning to fitness, and you get a game that was much messier than what we'd seen previously.

Tielmans and Santos need time to gel and figure out how to play together. I think naturally, both prefer playing deeper, so they need to figure out movements at times. This game wasn't factored on that anyway, as they barely had the opportunity to actually play through the middle. I would sign a Fred type of midfielder for these games specifically to play with Andrey Santos. I'd also be interested in seeing if Mainoo has the athleticism for these type of games. He seemed to last season, so that may already be a natural fit.

The bigger questions are at the back. We have some pieces for the answers, but we don't know which partnership to actually use and stick with. We need a settled centre back partnership. I don't think Maguire moves his feet quick enough and Martinez' height and pace worry me. On the other hand, the world cup again showed that Martinez is capable of handling being part of a high line. His progressive passing is too much of a gift to pass up, but Heaven, Yoro and De Ligt have the athleticism that he doesn't have. Us being unsettled in that position means that when a team finally gets passed our strong midblock, you're not always sure what we are going to get from the backline, especially with current Shaw at the back too. With Cunha/Dorgu on the left and a tucked in right back, we need an athletic full back on the left who can combine with the left winger and cover space defensively. Is Shaw that right now? I don't think so.

I don't think it would hurt us too much outside of the more chaotic away games, but I'd like us to sign an athletic wingback on the left and a running ball winner ( similar to Fred) in midfield.

 

[Zumbi]

It does matter, just not as much as people want to state.There have been a lot of positives. The identity is clear, the system is recognizable, and we have the personnel to make it work. We've seen good structure, pressing, attacking combinations and, importantly, enough performances against stronger opposition to suggest this isn't just a preseason mirage. But Milan showed some potential weaknesses.

Milan under Amorim are awkward. Their 3-4-2-1, particularly the two attacking midfielders, makes the centre difficult to access and creates chaotic games.This is why we were better in the big games last season, because it was awkward for big teams to play against. I suspect this influenced Carrick's decision to keep Mazraoui wider rather than consistently tucking him into the back three. That meant we often played around Milan rather than through midfield, which made the game much more transitional than our previous matches. Add the poor pitch, heat, and players returning to fitness, and you get a game that was much messier than what we'd seen previously.

Tielmans and Santos need time to gel and figure out how to play together. I think naturally, both prefer playing deeper, so they need to figure out movements at times. This game wasn't factored on that anyway, as they barely had the opportunity to actually play through the middle. I would sign a Fred type of midfielder for these games specifically to play with Andrey Santos. I'd also be interested in seeing if Mainoo has the athleticism for these type of games. He seemed to last season, so that may already be a natural fit.

The bigger questions are at the back. We have some pieces for the answers, but we don't know which partnership to actually use and stick with. We need a settled centre back partnership. I don't think Maguire moves his feet quick enough and Martinez' height and pace worry me. On the other hand, the world cup again showed that Martinez is capable of handling being part of a high line. His progressive passing is too much of a gift to pass up, but Heaven, Yoro and De Ligt have the athleticism that he doesn't have. Us being unsettled in that position means that when a team finally gets passed our strong midblock, you're not always sure what we are going to get from the backline, especially with current Shaw at the back too. With Cunha/Dorgu on the left and a tucked in right back, we need an athletic full back on the left who can combine with the left winger and cover space defensively. Is Shaw that right now? I don't think so.

I don't think it would hurt us too much outside of the more chaotic away games, but I'd like us to sign an athletic wingback on the left and a running ball winner ( similar to Fred) in midfield.

Nicely written and thoughtful post. Thanks.

 

[devilish]

This wasn't the normal preseason game. It was a week away before the real thing started and against Amorim's side nevertheless. The board, the manager and the players would want a win against them. Is this a horrible squad then? No it's not. There's plenty of talent especially upfront. However it's lopsided and won't sort itself without some serious investment. Ultimately once the game starts no one cares how much Shaw and Mount are being paid. They see in them two injury prone players one of which can't run anymore. No one cares how financially astute it was to keep Maguire at the club. They'll see a CB with zero pace. No one cares about our shrewd signings in CM. They'll see two capable CM who are extremely lightweight and can be bullied off the ball. No one cares about Rashy's huge salary. They'll see a player who hates sweating. These are all weaknesses that will be exploited.

Is it all over? No. But we need 3 signings that bring the right balance on the pitch rather then on our balance sheet. If the money is tight then Berge, Solet and Raum could do the trick

I used to hate the 'they set the manager to fail' term used with Amorim, ETH and Ole. Yet that doesn't apply with Carrick. Unless some serious investment is made then he's been set to fail.

 

[LoyalUnitedFan]

It is baffling we didn't improve on our back 4 that made us concede 54 league goals in a season, and Dalot, Shaw and Maguire are still our starting XI after all those years

 

[locyl_yocyl]

Chill guys.. we just had one of our player apologized to Villa fans for having the audacity to call us the bigger club of the two. And alot of us at upset for losing 4-2 to AC fecking Milan now? We have long long way to go.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Relax! Preseason is not about results. It's about game time, fitness, trying new things and etc.

Players don't go all out and the mentality is more to get through the games to improve fitness without injuries.

We could beat Real Madrid in the preseason and once the PL game start it's a different ball game altogether

 

[LoyalUnitedFan]

Relax! Preseason is not about results. It's about game time, fitness, trying new things and etc.

Players don't go all out and the mentality is more to get through the games to improve fitness without injuries.

We could beat Real Madrid in the preseason and once the PL game start it's a different ball game altogether

The biggest thing is that it has exposed our two main weaknesses that we have tried to do nothing to improve this season

- a lightweight midfield with no speed and physicality (Bruno, Mainoo, Tieliesman, Santos, Mount all have small frames as a player, and none of them are quick)
- a slow back 4 that is prone to counterattacks (Milan's last goal shows that)

We need to two big purchases (one for midfield, one for LB) this summer, otherwise we will risk ourselves another year without UCL

 

[devilish]

Relax! Preseason is not about results. It's about game time, fitness, trying new things and etc.

Players don't go all out and the mentality is more to get through the games to improve fitness without injuries.

We could beat Real Madrid in the preseason and once the PL game start it's a different ball game altogether

I can't wait for Shaw to start bombing the flank like Di marco does, for our first team CBs to stay fit for the entire season for Tielemans and Santos to become physical beast and for Rashy to start working hard on the flanks like prime Ji Sung Park.

On a serious note mate, sure it's preseason but the problems are there to be seen, there had been there for a long time and it won't go away by simply wishing them to go.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It is baffling we didn't improve on our back 4 that made us concede 54 league goals in a season, and Dalot, Shaw and Maguire are still our starting XI after all those years

We also lost our main / only DM and haven’t replaced him yet.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

On a serious note mate, sure it's preseason but the problems are there to be seen, there had been there for a long time and it won't go away by simply wishing them to go.

100% agree. But these problems we don't need a preseason friendly to tell us. The club is already in progress in recruiting a left back and a DM. We still have 2 and half weeks to go and we don't need to press the panic button yet.

The progress is hampered by our owners cash flow issues. Hope the Glazers and SJR can sort out something soon.

 

[Escobar]

It is baffling we didn't improve on our back 4 that made us concede 54 league goals in a season, and Dalot, Shaw and Maguire are still our starting XI after all those years

I would start Yoro and Heaven. At least they have pace and are talents.

 

[Shakesy]

That can’t be real.

I believe it is. Two more if we count shootouts

 

[Rams]

Jesus the state of this thread. It’s pre season, and a large part of the squad are only back in training for a few weeks. Realistically we are are still a few transfer windows off from a squad genuinely good enough to compete for major titles on all fronts, but we knew that anyway. And the clubs is still paying for the unsuccessful transfers of the past decade, as well as facing financial restrictions due to FFP rules & new stadium, so the club has to be very careful when doing its transfer business in order to get back to a situation where we can genuinely compete with the best sides in Europe. So yeah, while there are obvious weaknesses in the squad, what would be even worse if we make the same mistakes in the transfer window as we have done in our recent history.

 

[Red&Black]

Again, I'm a fan of both clubs, so I'm doing my best to be unbiased here...

What worries me is that Milan trotted out their B or maybe even C side. It has to be reiterated that none of Pulisic, Leao, Nkunku, Rabiot, Maignan or their captain Gabbia even played. Then you had (old) Modric who just got back and Gila who came in near the end as he's a new signing and been injured for 2 weeks.

I don't worry or take much stock from either side because, ya... It's preseason. But it is alarming, regardless, to get that outplayed by a Milan team that was at BEST their 2nd string, and really, not even that. Terraciano is going to be cut to anyone that'll take him, Cisse might stay, but probably loaned...

But, again... Preseason. I think United will be fine, but they deifnitely need reinforcements (as does Milan)

 

[pocco]

The result and performance has seemingly sparked a lot of outrage over us not signing a LB, but at the end of the day the squad we had yesterday was miles ahead of theirs in terms of talent and ability. Yesterday’s performance doesn’t change drastically if you add Lewis Hall.

This feels like the new “if we sign Andre Onana then it will change the way we play” that was spouted under ETH.

 

[greater wall]

Again, I'm a fan of both clubs, so I'm doing my best to be unbiased here...

What worries me is that Milan trotted out their B or maybe even C side. It has to be reiterated that none of Pulisic, Leao, Nkunku, Rabiot, Maignan or their captain Gabbia even played. Then you had (old) Modric who just got back and Gila who came in near the end as he's a new signing and been injured for 2 weeks.

I don't worry or take much stock from either side because, ya... It's preseason. But it is alarming, regardless, to get that outplayed by a Milan team that was at BEST their 2nd string, and really, not even that. Terraciano is going to be cut to anyone that'll take him, Cisse might stay, but probably loaned...

But, again... Preseason. I think United will be fine, but they deifnitely need reinforcements (as does Milan)

While I agree that Milan looked the better side in the second half, they did have one offside goal that would be disallowed in the PL. Bruno missed a penalty, or the keeper made an excellent save. I would congratulate Milan and the keeper. The second half United lacked some balance and Milan played well. Their strategy of keeping the ball also played into that. Some United players were tiring and some clearly not anywhere near being match fit.