as if Arteta were anywhere near Guardiola and Klopp
Managerial contingency plans?
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Yeah, mentioning him, the winner of a single FA Cup if I remember correctly along with Pep and Klopp makes no sense. Even EtH has won more in England?
Are you even thinking about the words I wrote? The clues are in there...
Arteta is still only 43, which is young for a manager. Only 1 manager has ever won a PL title title younger than that age (Mourinho when he was 42, just a year younger). Only 1 manager has ever won a PL title at even 43 (again, Mourinho).
I'm sure that if Amorim had been doing the job which Arteta has been doing for Arsenal so far, and having them at least serious contenders for the title even at an early stage in his career, then both Ineos and the fans will be pretty content and willing to consider him as someone worth building the team for over the future.
PS ETH joined Utd at 52, he might have even already peaked as a manager while at Ajax.
Regarding the post below with SAF, there are of course exceptions. But as with Mourinho on the younger side, it's what they are - less common exceptions. It's not impossible for older managers to do have continued success in the PL, but it's less likely.
My posts for the day have already been exhausted having to re-iterate all this.
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Carlo Ancelotti & SAF say hi.
Don't forget Claudio Ranieri, he also says hi
We were gonna hire Ole instead of Amorim so just going back to one of Ashworth's suggestions.
I would rather we brought Ruud back at this point rather than Ole, Ole had his time as manager
We're we? The (unsubstantiated) claim is that we were looking at the option, nothing more.
It just should be Iraola, every time I watch Bournemouth, I feel like we could easily copy paste our players into his system.
It’s funny how we’re always told you need physical beasts to play a double pivot, yet Iraola and Glasner are able to get results whilst playing the likes of Alex Scott, Adams, Wharton and Hughes.
To be fair, Adams is shite on the ball but an athlete. I think Wharton and Hughes only works because of the back 3. We should be able to replicate Scott and Adams though. I think we don't have a similar profile to Scott though.
Thanks David. Honestly never thought Conte would go an entire season and switch from his 3 atb formation, but kudos to him,shows what a top manager he is. Maybe i've underrated him a bit.
Yeah, but we don't really have a Wharton or even a Hughes.
Similar strengths as carriers of the ball, but physically, Scott is far more capable of operating in a 2.
Not guaranteed but he was definitely on the list from what I'm seeing, as an interim.
I would've been ok with bringing Ole back for the rest of last season to work alongside Ruud who was already there and willing to stay. Looking back, there's no way we would've finished anywhere worse than 8th last year. Ole has already proven he can finish 2nd and 3rd, so we would've probably been closer to an automatic EL spot.
Jupp Heynckes also says hi. He won the treble with Bayern Munich at 68 years of age. It's not about age, but rather the idea in your mind as a coach and how that idea then has to adapt to change.
You will find it difficult to find someone on the board here who disagrees with you.
Except that they are big and athletic and run a lot and quite a few are skilful.
A well thought out and well prepared post and people then take the micky out of it, because of course there are always exceptions so we can ignore facts.
It isn't about age, but in a discussion about PL managers he's not relevant
Yep. If Ruud could get us looking competent in his 4 game spell then a better manager in Ole would have had us in the top half.
Oh I see. Then the discussion is irrelevant imo.
Ineos missed a trick and severely underestimated the issues Amorim would have adapting to the PL and the squad he inherited from Ten Hag. That squad is one paced and issues all over the place with Mainoo, Garnacho, Amad and Bruno (who is on the way out, age wise) as the only bright spots. Meaning a big rebuild was needed.
What we needed was someone to come in, deliver acceptable results like European football every season, whilst a slow burn heart surgery was being conducted in the background. Someone like Ole could have given us those two seasons that we needed but we chose to forge ahead with a long term manager as if we didn't have teething issues.
No manager is ever going to play proactive football with anathletic players like De Ligt, Maguire, Shaw, Casemiro and Bruno occupying our central defensive core. It needed a pragmatist who could forgo his philosophy a bit whilst we got the tools in place. Maybe when we have the squad, we then look at the managerial market for a bona fide winner - manager like Naggelsmann, Enrique or even Conte are bound to become available somewhere down the line or maybe a new name like Iraola emerges.
But we need time to sort out the athletism and dearth of technical ability in defense and midfield before we even think about competing at the top level. Watching how Arsenal handled Newcastle at their own place shows us how far away we currently are.
The physical beast part is due to Bruno is guaranteed starter as one of the midfielder under Amorim. He’s not doing the midfielder role properly. If we have Carrick instead of Bruno, we don’t need to narrow the targeted profile of the other midfielder as much. You simply can’t coach Bruno into a midfielder for 2 man midfield.
Play him further up, or don’t play him.
Head says Glasner, heart says Iraola
Yeah, I just think that what you're seeing is based on the Mirror.
Luckhurst had that story too. And then later that same day Berrada flew to Portugal for Amorim.
So both facts indicate that Solskjaer was never on the cards...
Seriously, if they wanted an interim they had Ruud. Why would they need to reach out to Solskjaer.
Think you’re doing that thing where United fans grossly underrate our players whilst overstating another teams.
Apart from Semenyo, nobody stands out as “big” in that Bournemouth team. Even their centre backs are not particularly big. The two that started last night are 6’1.
They are very athletic though yes. But we have athletic and skilful players in Mbeumo, Cunha, Amad.
Mount, Dalot, Dorgu, Bruno, Sesko and Yoro whilst not skilful would easily fall into the athletic category and can run a lot.
Our CM does lack athleticism but that’s the only area you can say Bournemouth have it better in and that’s predominantly also down to what Amorim chooses to do with our central midfield.
Just came in to say this..
You don’t have to be a top class manager to coach Manchester United. LVG my favourite of them all didn’t fail because he was a bad manager he didn’t fit, give Mourinho Aston Villa or Nottingham Forest we will realise the guy is still got it. There is a reason why Ancelotti achieve what he does at those club, culturally his philosophy fits.
Pep, Zidane, Enrique, Conte, Simeone, etc just mentioning the currently active top guys, did not have the CV to get their big jobs. They just fit right into the culture and understood what the club was about. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think Di Matteo show the importance of this.
Our Ole wasn’t the best coach going but he managed to achieve some sort of success here, this is always my route for a managerial choice till the club gets back to the top and luckily if the guy can get us trophies good but he’ll be able to get us back our identity.
Let’s explore Michael Carrick or McKenna two guys that have shown us what their football is. I doubt anyone here will question how good their ability to play good football and watching their team it’s easy to see it’s transferable to us. Give one of these guys the job and stop faffing about with all these fancy name.or breakout managers. They are a bigger gamble than one of these two guy.
I’m not Amorim out, I like the guy and his football. Just think he is getting himself fired the same way Ole, Ten Hag and who else did with bad coaching or philosophical decisions. A manager doesn’t cater for players and if they don’t fit it let the system expose them, you move to a better fit but our guys will rather stick and start blowing money around this fallacy still trying to spruce up a round peg in a square hole. You cant make a donkey a Frankel, let’s move away from these guys that believe they invented football and get ourselves playing very basic and simple football before looking into the fancy stuff. Anyone that wants a football induced handshaker, try pornhub and allow simpletons like myself to get back to just watching and supporting football played without complications as the old man did.
You don’t have to be a top class manager to coach Manchester United. LVG my favourite of them all didn’t fail because he was a bad manager he didn’t fit, give Mourinho Aston Villa or Nottingham Forest we will realise the guy is still got it. There is a reason why Ancelotti achieve what he does at those club, culturally his philosophy fits.
Pep, Zidane, Enrique, Conte, Simeone, etc just mentioning the currently active top guys, did not have the CV to get their big jobs. They just fit right into the culture and understood what the club was about. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think Di Matteo show the importance of this.
Our Ole wasn’t the best coach going but he managed to achieve some sort of success here, this is always my route for a managerial choice till the club gets back to the top and luckily if the guy can get us trophies good but he’ll be able to get us back our identity.
Let’s explore Michael Carrick or McKenna two guys that have shown us what their football is. I doubt anyone here will question how good their ability to play good football and watching their team it’s easy to see it’s transferable to us. Give one of these guys the job and stop faffing about with all these fancy name.or breakout managers. They are a bigger gamble than one of these two guy.
I’m not Amorim out, I like the guy and his football. Just think he is getting himself fired the same way Ole, Ten Hag and who else did with bad coaching or philosophical decisions. A manager doesn’t cater for players and if they don’t fit it let the system expose them, you move to a better fit but our guys will rather stick and start blowing money around this fallacy still trying to spruce up a round peg in a square hole. You cant make a donkey a Frankel, let’s move away from these guys that believe they invented football and get ourselves playing very basic and simple football before looking into the fancy stuff. Anyone that wants a football induced handshaker, try pornhub and allow simpletons like myself to get back to just watching and supporting football played without complications as the old man did.
I think we have a lot of players like that, just a few key ones missing. I did a post earlier about it, but our front 3 run as much. Maybe Bruno isn't athletic enough for the style, but Ugarte is as good as Adams - I just don't think we have a Scott type player. FBs are athletic enough, so are the CBs - that is De Light and Yoro in my eyes.
Better managerial option than Southgate.
I agree entirely with this post.
(Though I'd prefer Ole at the helm with Carrick as assistant manager)
It's the same I've been trying to say for some time, but many seem to believe you need to find this magical unicorn manager that can excel in any club.
But in a big club like ours you just need someone who understands the culture and gets the basics right. Some tactical ability is needed of course, especially ability to adjust to situations during games, but this is what you have additional coaches and analysts to support with.
Look at Kompany in Bayern Munich. They were ridiculed for hiring him, but nobody is complaining now.
The only real question is - do we try get someone in now or wait till the end of the season?
If we want to wait till the end of the season we need to indicate to our first and second choice our plans in private.
This issue should have been dealt with in the off season but as usual we delayed and procrastinated. We are not a decisive club, we let events influence us, rather than shape them.
Whoever we choose, we have to set out a well defined criteria - their preferred formation, which positions they think need improving with the proviso not to indetify names as much to identify characteristics of the type of player needed.
If we want to wait till the end of the season we need to indicate to our first and second choice our plans in private.
This issue should have been dealt with in the off season but as usual we delayed and procrastinated. We are not a decisive club, we let events influence us, rather than shape them.
Whoever we choose, we have to set out a well defined criteria - their preferred formation, which positions they think need improving with the proviso not to indetify names as much to identify characteristics of the type of player needed.
He is exactly the character this club needs.
Fair points.
I think for me, there's probably three options.
1. Give Amorim until closer to Christmas time then evaluate again but start exploring replacements now.
2. Sack him within the next week and replace with someone who can take us to the end of next season with very clear aims around getting us into Europe etc whilst exploring longer term options.
3. Sack him with the next week but replace with an interim until the end of this season with a view to announcing the permanent replacement before the end of the season.
Agree with all of this. I do like Amorim - he comes across well and dealt with the bad influences in the squad well. But he is letting the system get him sacked. He doesn't have a midfielder that he needs in the system, but he has Mainoo - he should be adaptable enough to handle this.
And you are totally right, football is simple and Fergie knew it - get a few key ingredients right and let the players get on with it. Maybe that was exposed at the highest level but we'll never get back to that level at this rate.
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