Managerial Stagnation in English Football

[sammsky1]

I think its because they are simply not good enough.

Show me a new young British football manager as experienced, knowledgable and esteemed at Arteta, and you may have a point. But you want be able to find one.

 

[King7Eric]

I think its because they are simply not good enough.

Show me a new young British football manager as experienced, knowledgable and esteemed at Arteta, and you may have a point. But you want be able to find one.

What do you mean by experienced and esteemed as Arteta? I'm assuming you mean as a player or coach because he had no previous managerial experience. Just because a manager didn't have a great playing career, doesn't mean he won't be a good manager. Now I understand the likes of Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal appointing Old, Lampard and Arteta because these guys had ties with the clubs, which is an important quality, but it's not the only quality needed. Guys like SAF and Klopp had no ties with their clubs and did alright.

Maybe top players need someone with a big reputation to keep them in line, someone who's achievements they'll respect, but my point in the OP had been regarding clubs like West Ham and Newcastle. What's stopping them from appointing the likes of Eddie Howe? Someone who has done very well with the resources he had at Bournemouth.

 

[King7Eric]

That's beside the point. They don't fall into the category of the 'stagnated manager' pool. They're still relatively inexperienced, and are certainly a risk. The point being they have been willing to take those risks as opposed to appointing a Moyes or a Pulis.

Oh I agree and for the most part it has served those clubs well, with the odd aberration. Yet, there are still some clubs who still revert back to the archetypical British old firm manager.

 

[King7Eric]

Because.. they're not that good to manage top teams? and not suitable/convincing enough?

It's a high risk. too big to gamble.
Pool arguably land a success with Rodgers, but City did not with Hughes. Both of them did well with their previous clubs (Hughes work with Blackburn is really impressive and he had connection with SAF and United so a new top-club wannabe City may felt convinced enough, I'm not too sure with Rodgers though but his CV is really interesting, so that may convinced Pool's higher-ups enough). We also failed with Moyes but that's perhaps a "special case".

The other managers are not really that impressive. Howe maybe the closest in recent years but he doesn't have any "connections" with any of the top teams.

That "connections" matters a lot especially if your previous work with other clubs is not really that impressive or you're a total newbie. Eg. the case of Ole, Arteta and Lampard. If you're a well-respected ex-players or coaches, even more if you're legends, then at least the players will respect you and they will more incline to listen and follow you. Zidane and Pep are the best examples of this but at different league. Happened to Ole, Arteta and Lampard too.

Interesting we only gave Ole a try-out as caretaker (a safer risk for half-a-season) where he basically impressed and won himself the job permanently. That's what we called "risk-management" since Ole may become Moyes 2.0 in terms of results but thankfully he did not and knows what he's doing.

This is a good point. Just like any other industry, having contacts in the right places is perhaps more important than being the best qualified person for the job. And it's difficult for any new and young manager to break into the clique of the old firm managers, therefore making it that much more difficult to develop tje necessary connections.

 

[el3mel]

The experience with managers like Silva and stuff didn't end well, so they think it's much better to take it safe and appoint the same PL experienced managers to stay in the league. It's not really a bad point of view to be honest, at the end it gets them mostly what these club wanted.

 

[King7Eric]

The experience with managers like Silva and stuff didn't end well, so they think it's much better to take it safe and appoint the same PL experienced managers to stay in the league. It's not really a bad point of view to be honest, at the end it gets them mostly what these club wanted.

Well yeah maybe for clubs like Watford or Palace or WBA I can understand that their sole aim is survival. But clubs like Newcastle, West Ham etc should be aiming higher than that.

 

[saintquin]

That is still not successful. You can spin it anyway you want, if you don’t win a trophy it isn’t success.

I would say teams like Bournemouth, Burnley, Blackpool and Wigan even getting to the Premier League is a success and staying there for a few seasons counts as quite a lot of success for Bournemouth. So success in my book isn't always about winning trophies for them or, I'd say most clubs

I think its because they are simply not good enough.

Show me a new young British football manager as experienced, knowledgable and esteemed at Arteta, and you may have a point. But you want be able to find one.

It's the old catch 22 isn't it. You can't get experience if nobody gives you the chance to in the first place. Perhaps if City gave an English person the same opportunity as they gave Arteta who knows!

 

[sammsky1]

I would say teams like Bournemouth, Burnley, Blackpool and Wigan even getting to the Premier League is a success and staying there for a few seasons counts as quite a lot of success for Bournemouth. So success in my book isn't always about winning trophies for them or, I'd say most clubs

It's the old catch 22 isn't it. You can't get experience if nobody gives you the chance to in the first place. Perhaps if City gave an English person the same opportunity as they gave Arteta who knows!

You mean like Villa did with John Terry or United have done with Giggs, McKenna and Carrick? There are plenty more examples.

because of the vast money in football today, I believe it to be a very meritocratic industry. Especially in England, if the youngish English coaches were good enough, they would get the opportunities.

 

[King7Eric]

You mean like Villa did with John Terry or United have done with Giggs, McKenna and Carrick? There are plenty more examples.

because of the vast money in football today, I believe it to be a very meritocratic industry. Especially in England, if the youngish English coaches were good enough, they would get the opportunities.

Really?? You don't think the fact that these guys were Ryan Giggs, Michael Carrick and John Terry had anything to do with them getting opportunities?

It would be practically impossible for someone nameless young coach, who's down in the Championship or League 1, to get the opportunity of being an assistant manager at a PL club, irrespective of how well he's doing unless he has some sort of connection at that club. The likes of Lampard and Gerrard got managerial gigs at Derby and Rangers, not because of their managerial CV but rather who they were as players. Which is fine with me, I have no issue with that, but let's not make it sound that any young manager who didn't have such a stellar playing career would get the same opportunities.

 

[FootballHQ]

It's interesting in other countries. The path to the top for young home grown coaches who do well at mid size clubs is much clearer than in premier league.

In Italy you have Giampaolo who did well at Empoli for a number of years and got the Milan job. Didn't last long and replaced by Pioli who's managed Lazio and Inter in last 5 years. Allegri did well at Cagliari and got picked up by Milan and then onto Juventus. Eusebio di Franceso at Roma last season, Inzaghi at Lazio etc....

Serie A currently has four foreign coaches and Mihajlovic played in Serie A for vast majority of his career so is pretty much a domestic option himself.

Of the 17 clubs in La Liga just Simeone, Zidane and recently appointed Pellegrini are foreign. Rest are Spanish and I presume three promoted clubs will all have Spanish managers.

12 German managers in Bundesliga (although David Wagner is actually classed as american on the list I saw so should be 13).

This is important as the more domestic managers the more chance some of them will be finishing 3rd-7th and competiting in CL/europa and be seen to be doing excellent jobs.

In premier league you have a core of 6-7 British managers but most of them are in charge of at best mid table clubs so it will always be difficult to get a club into top 6 on the budgets and having to outwit some of the best minds in the game over 38 games. Even when someone massively overachieves like Wilder or to a lesser degree Brendan Rodgers people prefer to scrutinise every single questionable decision they do and why that means they can't manage a big team rather than focus on all the excellent work. Does this sort of POV exist in other countries?

It's true Moyes failed at Man. United but seems a bit odd to use him as example of why no domestic option should never get a chance in top 6 job again. You could make a similar case against LVG and why that type of manager should never get a chance at Man. United either.

Ultimately if you put six England managers in charge of this season's top 6 one of them would win the league next season. All the foreign ownership in charge of the main clubs also means they'll cast the net wider for next manager than in other leagues perhaps. It will be interesting if Abramovich goes for another british manager post Lampard, I suspect not.

 

[FootballHQ]

This is the reality of the situation, the owners will always go for managers with experience irrespective of how much promise a younger prospect has prior to the level of risk associated. I don't really blame this approach either, we as football fans are consumers to the game due to entertainment / passion / following but for the most part the owners of clubs are simply supporting an investment.

I do however think the likes of West Ham and Everton should have taken more of a gamble given they are usually high mid table teams (also given their infrastructure) but when you consider how close to relegation the hammers could have been it provides insight into the nature of the league. I reckon Howe could be in contention for a few jobs in the league depending on the circumstances of next season. His next appointment could determine the trajectory of his managerial career I'd enjoy seeing how he progresses at a top 10 team.

I'd argue Everton have. They appointed Moyes years back when he was at Preston in division 1 and doing well. Then they went for Martinez who's just won the FA cup but had just got relegated with Wigan. Then they got Marco Silva the other year who was at that point seen as progressing upwards. Actually 3 of their last 6 appointments. Other three have been Koeman, Big Sam and Ancelotti so more the tried and tested route for the particular situation they're in.

 

[luke511]

I think its because they are simply not good enough.

Show me a new young British football manager as experienced, knowledgable and esteemed at Arteta, and you may have a point. But you want be able to find one.

Dyche. He'd do a great job at a club like Tottenham, they should've gone for him instead of Mourinho in my opinion. I've said it before I reckon he'd actually be up to it at United, he has a Fergieness about him the way he's transformed the club and has that same sort of boss demeanour. His work doesn't get enough praise.

 

[FootballHQ]

Harry Rednap would do ok. Mark Hughes probably the worst in the premier league era... you're destined to be near the bottom in season 2.

Hughes did well at Blackburn and to a lesser extent at Stoke with three 9th finishes in a row and they were playing good football for a while. He just stayed too long there and they didn't replace likes of Aranutovic well. QPR was a disaster but you've always get one club where it dosen't work.

Man. City one is a hard one to judge for me. He took over when they didn't have much cash so expectation was mid table which he'd have achieved. Then the takeover and expectations suddenly went skyward.

Next season he was sacked mid season when they were 6th. Mancini took over and finished 5th. However would Man. City have attracted likes of Silva, Aguero, Yaya if Hughes was manager...possibly not? That's probably where a world famous coach comes in handy and there isn't an English manager active who has that kudos.

 

[FootballHQ]

I think its because they are simply not good enough.

Show me a new young British football manager as experienced, knowledgable and esteemed at Arteta, and you may have a point. But you want be able to find one.

Arteta's done o.k and getting a trophy will certainly help his standing but let's remember he took over Arsenal mid season and guided them to 8th. An English manager going in at Arsenal and finishing that low would probably already be sacked.

Arsenal wer only about 5 points off 5th when he took over. Very mediocre away form aswell under him so far. Lampard and Gerrard had far better playing careers than him btw, Carrick aswell whenever he goes for a managers job.

 

[sammsky1]

Really?? You don't think the fact that these guys were Ryan Giggs, Michael Carrick and John Terry had anything to do with them getting opportunities?

It would be practically impossible for someone nameless young coach, who's down in the Championship or League 1, to get the opportunity of being an assistant manager at a PL club, irrespective of how well he's doing unless he has some sort of connection at that club. The likes of Lampard and Gerrard got managerial gigs at Derby and Rangers, not because of their managerial CV but rather who they were as players. Which is fine with me, I have no issue with that, but let's not make it sound that any young manager who didn't have such a stellar playing career would get the same opportunities.

You’ve kind of made my point for me. There is a reason that an unknown coach won’t be given a chance. because he’s never achieved anything to be known for yet!

Terry, Carrick etc possess football and life experience that their current employers value above your nameless coach CV.

 

[Dancfc]

I think this mentality started, at least that's when I first noted it, when Curbishley left Charlton, because even though it was his decision to leave, there was a lot of noise from Charlton fans about how they were tired of being mid table and wanted to make the next step. They promptly got relegated the next season and never reached the PL again. Since, then its almost an anathema to wish for improvement upon your current station, by appointing a different manager. Arsenal after Wenger is another example from the opposite end of the table.

Yeah Charlton are one example of it hugely backfiring, but was that more because they got rid of Curbishley or that they appointed Iain Dowie to replace him (then further dug their own grave by putting Les Reed in afterwards)? I can't really remember who the hipster managers were back in 2006 but there must have been someone like a Poch/Ralph type guy that would have actually given Charlton that 'next level' they were craving.

I don't think any club should be begrudged the chance to try and better themselves because they're "little old (insert name here)", even if they're doing well to be where they even are.

 

[King7Eric]

You’ve kind of made my point for me. There is a reason that an unknown coach won’t be given a chance. because he’s never achieved anything to be known for yet!

Terry, Carrick etc possess football and life experience that their current employers value above your nameless coach CV.

Sean Dyche has achieved much more as a manager than Arteta, yet it was the latter that was given the job at a big club, while Dyche continues to slog away at Burnley. So there are many managers and coaches who have achieved stuff, but are just not given a chance. @FootballHQ pretty much hits the nail on the head when he compares the situation with countries like Germany and Italy. They produce better managers because they give new ones a chance, and that too due to their managerial CV, rather than continuing with the same old.

 

[Champ]

I think part of it is the ever looming threat of relegation. The money involved in staying in the premier league isn't really conducive to risk taking. We've seen with the likes of Newcastle, Villa, West Ham that anyone can get relegated even though these teams have played the most games in the league outside the top 6 (minus City, add Everton).

The big clubs don't really have that threat, they generally have a player base that guarantees being better than the rest of the league and so can afford to take more risks if it means there might be a bigger payoff in the future with a better manager. Also if things go wrong at a big club, it's very easy to sack a manager, attract another one and spend £50m to correct it.

However, I do think that more chances should be given to some of these managers on the surface of it. Had Ole, Lampard or Arteta achieved anywhere near as much as Howe or even Dyche in management before being hired in top positions?

Ole has won more than Arteta and Lampard had when they all took over, way more than Dyche and arguably more than Howe.
I think people forget that Ole has two league titles and a cup title in Norway.

 

[do.ob]

It's interesting in other countries. The path to the top for young home grown coaches who do well at mid size clubs is much clearer than in premier league.

In Italy you have Giampaolo who did well at Empoli for a number of years and got the Milan job. Didn't last long and replaced by Pioli who's managed Lazio and Inter in last 5 years. Allegri did well at Cagliari and got picked up by Milan and then onto Juventus. Eusebio di Franceso at Roma last season, Inzaghi at Lazio etc....

Serie A currently has four foreign coaches and Mihajlovic played in Serie A for vast majority of his career so is pretty much a domestic option himself.

Of the 17 clubs in La Liga just Simeone, Zidane and recently appointed Pellegrini are foreign. Rest are Spanish and I presume three promoted clubs will all have Spanish managers.

12 German managers in Bundesliga (although David Wagner is actually classed as american on the list I saw so should be 13).

This is important as the more domestic managers the more chance some of them will be finishing 3rd-7th and competiting in CL/europa and be seen to be doing excellent jobs.

In premier league you have a core of 6-7 British managers but most of them are in charge of at best mid table clubs so it will always be difficult to get a club into top 6 on the budgets and having to outwit some of the best minds in the game over 38 games. Even when someone massively overachieves like Wilder or to a lesser degree Brendan Rodgers people prefer to scrutinise every single questionable decision they do and why that means they can't manage a big team rather than focus on all the excellent work. Does this sort of POV exist in other countries?

It's true Moyes failed at Man. United but seems a bit odd to use him as example of why no domestic option should never get a chance in top 6 job again. You could make a similar case against LVG and why that type of manager should never get a chance at Man. United either.

Ultimately if you put six England managers in charge of this season's top 6 one of them would win the league next season. All the foreign ownership in charge of the main clubs also means they'll cast the net wider for next manager than in other leagues perhaps. It will be interesting if Abramovich goes for another british manager post Lampard, I suspect not.

One big difference you're leaving out is language:

Bundesliga's pool consists of basically Austria, Switzerland and the odd Dutch or Danish coach. "No one" happens to randomly speak decent German, so they can only recruit from these countries.

For Italian clubs the pool is even smaller. Even their "foreign" coaches aren't really that foreign. Mihajlovic has been playing/working in Italy since the early 90s, Diego Lopez and Ivan Juric played spent the final ~10 years of their playing career in Italy. Fonseca really is the only coach who is not a product of the Italian system.

In La Liga you basically see the same: Zidane, who spent the past 20 years in their system, and a couple of native Spanish speakers from South America.

For the PL things are different, everyone speaks a bit of English and clubs have lots of money, so they can recruit from all over the world. I'm sure there are lots of Bundesliga clubs who would hire a modern Portuguese coach like Nuno Espirito Santo if he spoke German or be daft enough to hire Ancelotti if they had the money. But they don't, so they have to give the job to a domestic candidate.

I also think it's a question of quality rather than quantity. Rodgers for example worked his way up the ladder. He started out as a youth coach, then took on a couple of jobs in the Championship and when people in the PL realized that he was a young, modern and relatively successful coach he went from Swansea straight to Liverpool. At that point it was up to him to deliver results that would put him into the top tier category.
Pochettino is a similar story, did well in midtable for Southampton, got hired by Spurs and since he did well there his next job will probably at a top club. Those two weren't handed their jobs, because of their playing career, they earned it.

If you phrase the question as: "why can't dinosaurs like Allardyce or hoofball enthusiasts like Dyche get jobs at top clubs" then it answers itself.

 

[Dante]

If English players are overrated, why aren't English managers also overrated for the same reasons?

 

[Xaviesta]

Really?? You don't think the fact that these guys were Ryan Giggs, Michael Carrick and John Terry had anything to do with them getting opportunities?

It would be practically impossible for someone nameless young coach, who's down in the Championship or League 1, to get the opportunity of being an assistant manager at a PL club, irrespective of how well he's doing unless he has some sort of connection at that club. The likes of Lampard and Gerrard got managerial gigs at Derby and Rangers, not because of their managerial CV but rather who they were as players. Which is fine with me, I have no issue with that, but let's not make it sound that any young manager who didn't have such a stellar playing career would get the same opportunities.

Steve Holland had no history with Chelsea and got his big break in coaching when he was appointed assistant manager back in 2011. Sean O'Driscoll joining Liverpool's backroom staff as Brendan Rodgers' assistant in 2015 is the last one I can think of.

 

[xonyo]

Ole has won more than Arteta and Lampard had when they all took over, way more than Dyche and arguably more than Howe.
I think people forget that Ole has two league titles and a cup title in Norway.

Yeah Ole did win a couple of things in Norway, but he also got relegated with Cardiff. My point is that players most likely don't care that he won a few things in Norway, it's not going to earn him respect. We don't see managers of top 6 clubs appoint managers because they won the Norwegian, Swedish, Danish leagues etc. His playing career and affiliation with the club got him the job. If Eddie Howe had played at the top level at Man Utd he would probably have been strongly considered assuming he had the same managerial career he has now.

 

[King7Eric]

Steve Holland had no history with Chelsea and got his big break in coaching when he was appointed assistant manager back in 2011. Sean O'Driscoll joining Liverpool's backroom staff as Brendan Rodgers' assistant in 2015 is the last one I can think of.

Wasn't Holland their Reserve team manager before being appointed assistant? I'm pretty sure he was managing their reserves for a couple of years. But even that is rare, so in any case, the point still stands, very few young coaches or managers get such opportunities unless they have some prior connections.

 

[Xaviesta]

Wasn't Holland their Reserve team manager before being appointed assistant? I'm pretty sure he was managing their reserves for a couple of years. But even that is rare, so in any case, the point still stands, very few young coaches or managers get such opportunities unless they have some prior connections.

He went from managing Crewe Alexandra from 2007-2008 to being manager of Chelsea's reserves in 2009 and then being assistan manager of Chelsea's first team in 2011.

 

[Siorac]

That is still not successful. You can spin it anyway you want, if you don’t win a trophy it isn’t success.

So you think that Sheffield United finishing 9th as a newly promoted club isn't a success? It's a very weird and narrow definition of success, one I've never seen before.

 

[André Dominguez]

One big difference you're leaving out is language:

Bundesliga's pool consists of basically Austria, Switzerland and the odd Dutch or Danish coach. "No one" happens to randomly speak decent German, so they can only recruit from these countries.

For Italian clubs the pool is even smaller. Even their "foreign" coaches aren't really that foreign. Mihajlovic has been playing/working in Italy since the early 90s, Diego Lopez and Ivan Juric played spent the final ~10 years of their playing career in Italy. Fonseca really is the only coach who is not a product of the Italian system.

In La Liga you basically see the same: Zidane, who spent the past 20 years in their system, and a couple of native Spanish speakers from South America.

For the PL things are different, everyone speaks a bit of English and clubs have lots of money, so they can recruit from all over the world. I'm sure there are lots of Bundesliga clubs who would hire a modern Portuguese coach like Nuno Espirito Santo if he spoke German or be daft enough to hire Ancelotti if they had the money. But they don't, so they have to give the job to a domestic candidate.

I also think it's a question of quality rather than quantity. Rodgers for example worked his way up the ladder. He started out as a youth coach, then took on a couple of jobs in the Championship and when people in the PL realized that he was a young, modern and relatively successful coach he went from Swansea straight to Liverpool. At that point it was up to him to deliver results that would put him into the top tier category.
Pochettino is a similar story, did well in midtable for Southampton, got hired by Spurs and since he did well there his next job will probably at a top club. Those two weren't handed their jobs, because of their playing career, they earned it.

If you phrase the question as: "why can't dinosaurs like Allardyce or hoofball enthusiasts like Dyche get jobs at top clubs" then it answers itself.

This is a very good post that I have to agree.

Analysing the portuguese league, if you remove the examples of Sven Goran Eriksson, Tomislav Ivic, Bobby Robson, John Toshack and a few more others who were actually considered top of the crop managers back in the day (hence the exception), the managers who are usually picked from PT clubs are from Portugal, Brazil and a few spanish managers who try their luck in our league due to language similarities (we can understand ech other fine if we speak slowly to each other).
But if those managers don't learn quick how to analyse the internal market and the technical level of the teams, there are big chances that their transfer choices will mostly fail (Souness at Benfica was a great example, picking useless players like Michael Thomas, Minto, Gary Charles, Dean Saunders, etc)

English is quite an easy language to catch, also due to our long term exposition to english music / movies that helps in the process and that helps to make their managers market wider.

 

[Champ]

Yeah Ole did win a couple of things in Norway, but he also got relegated with Cardiff. My point is that players most likely don't care that he won a few things in Norway, it's not going to earn him respect. We don't see managers of top 6 clubs appoint managers because they won the Norwegian, Swedish, Danish leagues etc. His playing career and affiliation with the club got him the job. If Eddie Howe had played at the top level at Man Utd he would probably have been strongly considered assuming he had the same managerial career he has now.

I'd say most players respect Ole both as an ex player and as a manager. If it was just his affiliation with United that got him the job, then we would have had Giggs in after Moyes.
We saw Spurs go for Poch, Chelsea go for Sarri, Liverpool go for Rodgers, all outsiders, all 'different' appointments and all managers who haven't won a lot of anything throughout their managerial careers.
Teams tend to go for the 'safe' option when time is of the essence and backs are against the wall and building a long term winning culture isn't of importance at that moment.

 

[xonyo]

I'd say most players respect Ole both as an ex player and as a manager. If it was just his affiliation with United that got him the job, then we would have had Giggs in after Moyes.
We saw Spurs go for Poch, Chelsea go for Sarri, Liverpool go for Rodgers, all outsiders, all 'different' appointments and all managers who haven't won a lot of anything throughout their managerial careers.
Teams tend to go for the 'safe' option when time is of the essence and backs are against the wall and building a long term winning culture isn't of importance at that moment.

I'm sure they respect him as a manager now, but I think it's mainly his playing career that earned him the respect and opportunity in the first place. There's plenty of managers who still manage in smaller leagues who have won a lot more than Ole, but didn't get a chance. When Moyes left, Utd were still hopeful of a swift return to the top of football hence going for van Gaal and Mourinho rather than Giggs. Even when Ole was appointed it was as caretaker, most assumed Poch would be favourite for the job the next year.

Sarri had nearly 30 years experience including Napoli for three years prior to Chelsea. He had done extremely well to challenge a dominant Juve for the title and had managed big name stars. Poch had managed Southampton to an 8th place finish in the league from being 15th when he took over and had managed in La Liga for several years already. Rodgers had taken Swansea to promotion and then got them to finish 11th. They were all of a much higher standing managerially than Ole, Lampard or Arteta at the time of their appointment.

Ole was a cheap and easy option for a season already ruined and, thinking cycnically, the owners probably thought him being a club legend might shield him (and them) from criticism whilst they looked for a permanent appointment.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

The cost of relegation and missing out on Europe has increased risk aversion up and down the league. Stifling innovation and managerial movement up the chain. That is why I personally would like the likes of Arteta, Lampard and Ole to succeed. Then the culture of looking for old experienced heads like Ancelotti will die out naturally.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I believe in football 2 things guarantee respect from players. 1) your methods 2) absolute board support. You have those 2 players just fall in line.

Hasssenhutl at Southampton is a perfect example.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Language & experience - both tying into each other.

Let's say a team in the Serie A or La Liga is looking for a manager - they might love what Howe has done with Bournemouth and see him as a low cost option who is great with developing players and working on a small budget but if he can't speak Spanish/Italian it's almost pointless hiring him. There are very few reference points from recent times, G Nev being the obvious disaster or Moyes bringing boring defensive football to the basques, of English coaches in the big European leagues - you have to go back to Toshack and Bobby Robson for success stories and they were rarities at the time. This inability to communicate with players then stops English managers from broadening their experiences and working with different tactics and players, they generally stay rooted in the FA system which has only really evolved very recently. Until we start seeing more English managers across different leagues, learning and improving their managerial approaches we'll always be behind the other major European footballing countries in producing top managers in my opinion.

 

[Luke1995]

I think it's because of the language. Valencia did try a foreign manager in Gary Neville and because he didn't speak Spanish it didn't go well.

 

[Liver_bird]

Why would you not hire coaches with a proven track record? Apart from the ownership shenanigans Benitez did a good enough job with Newcastle and likely could have built them in to a solid top half side/ more with some backing. How many opportunities are Everton going to have to nab a coach of the calibre of Carlo Ancelotti? They took a chance on Martinez when he was the next big thing and eventually that went sideways. I’d back Carlo to be able to build the club up there and he’ll command the respect and authority to not have fans calling for his head when they have a rough patch.

Regardless of if he’s good enough anymore José has a CV and track record thats hard to say no to. He’s not the type of manager many clubs would turn down in favour of a Howe.

Then there’s the likes of Nuno who’s done a pretty good job with wolves and he wasn’t even very well rated in Portugal. Ralph Hasseenhutl is an excellent manager and had rave reviews in the Bundesliga. Southampton getting him is genuinely a coup and he’s definitely one that might get an opportunity at a bigger club at some point.

The likes of Howe Hodgson and Dyche have done admirable jobs in their own ways but there’s nothing about them that’s going to stand out over any other managers. Potter and Wilder have done good things and I’m sure if they carry on they’ll be linked with bigger jobs. Palace/West Ham/Newcastle will eventually have openings in the coming years.

But overall there’s just nothing really to be gained by appointing those types of managers. There’s an abundance of quality coaches out there. And the very top clubs will always pick the best managers. You need managers capable of growing teams/players and managing a league/European campaign. United arsenal and Chelsea have managers who are unknown quantities in this regard so it’ll be interesting to see how that plays out. But to be able to manage a huge club you need to be equipped to do all those things. You can probably count on one hand the number of managers capable.