Manchester City 19/20 season | City down to one fit centreback

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Gentleman Jim, Jul 2, 2019.

  1. Aug 5, 2019

    Casanova85 New Member

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    I think City will win the 19/20 Prem mainly because Liverpool will drop points vs the Top8 teams.

    Guardiola wins leagues, period. It took Mou's Madrid with 100 points in 2012 and a "landing season-learning the ropes of English football" in 2016-17 to make him lose the 1st spot. Only twice since 2007!!!
  2. Aug 5, 2019

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

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    Just saying this doesn't make it true. There are 2 world class teams in the league. Racking up over 90 points and coming second is only a failure if you're clueless as to the level of quality it takes to hit that threshold.
  3. Aug 5, 2019

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

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    Liverpool were very good against the top sides last year, and at their best I don't see the rest of the top 6 giving them any issues. If anything it'll come down to the head to head against City as it did last year.
  4. Aug 5, 2019

    andyox Full Member

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    I did think that after I made my post. Guardiola has talked about a back 3 before (explaining that he couldn't try it with Mendy injured), so maybe this gives another option to try it.

    Not that I want to see him go, but shifting to a back 3 with wing-backs in some games would make even more sense if we sell Sane to Bayern.
  5. Aug 6, 2019

    Gentleman Jim It's absolutely amazing!

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    Mangala is not in Peps plans and will probably leave before the end of the window.
    City have 2 outstanding CB prospects currently. Eric Garcia played for Spain in their victorious Euro u19 Championship. He was on the bench yesterday.
    Taylor Harwood Bellis is 17 and a local lad but looks the real deal. Probably get some minutes in early rounds of Cups if draw is as kind as it was last season.
  6. Aug 6, 2019

    Mark_Barca Full Member

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    Still can't believe City gave Mangala a one year extension.
  7. Aug 6, 2019

    Megadrive Man New Member

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    Fernandinho has said that he will play centre back at times this season also.
  8. Aug 6, 2019

    bijitaq New Member

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    Cancelo is probably the best RB in the world going forward right now but he's very average and error prone on the defensive end. Just take a look at his game against Ajax in the first leg of the champions league quarter final. Made an amazing cross for Ronaldo's goal and then complicated what should have been a simple clearence that led to Ajax's goal.

    Still a good signing for City but he has to improve alot on the defensive end if he wants to take the regular starting spot away from Kyle Walker
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  9. Aug 6, 2019

    Gringo New Member

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    Two world class teams but only one with a world class squad. If you're in Man City's shoes and you don't win the league then you can only be disappointed imo.
  10. Aug 6, 2019

    Red Keane New Member

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    There is a case to be made for Laporte being the better CB than Kompany (one that I disagree with but still...), but you cannot really say that he is worse than Stones (even if he is not a terrible CB himself) and certainly not worse than Otamendi.

    Only because Kompany was injured for the majority of that season, Laporte didn't arrive till midway into that season and the other realistic alternative to those 2 was Mangala. A siutation that ultimately got them knocked out of the FA Cup by Wigan of all teams and knocked out of the CL by a side featuring Karius, Mingolet, Moreno, Lovern, Klavan, Matip and Lallana.

    While it was their starting partnership last season (although Kompany started getting more game time during the second half of the season), can you really say that Stones or even Laporte are better than Kompany was when he did play last season.

    They need another CB not just for the purposes of cover, but more importantly they need another one to not only force Laporte & Stones to fight for their places (in the team) thoughout the upcoming season, but to also be the captain of that club.

    Especially when even with Kompany (and 3 other CBs), they failed to win the CL over the last 2 seasons & almost lost the league to a side that featured Mignolet, Lovern, Moreno & Matip.

    So if Otamendi or Mangala featured instead of Kompany in let say the 2-1 win against Liverpool (on the 3rd of January), the 2-0 win against United (on the 24th of April) and the 1-0 win against Burnley (on the 28th April), you still think they would have won all 3 games regardless? Because lets not forget if Otmanedi/Mangala made 1 stupid mistake in any of those games (and thus cost them a win), then Liverpool would have won the league.

    So while you are correct all 4 CB's played a part in that comeback run that prevented Lovern getting his hands on a PL Winners Medal, the fact that Kompany played in the 3rd of January game against Liverpool, as well as the final 3 games before the last game of the season (all of which they couldn't afford to mess up upon) shows how important he was in helping City retain the title and in turn why losing them without properly replacing him is a bad mistake on Pep's part.

    And for the record, you cannot really underestimate how important "that goal" that won them the game was against Leicester (had they drawn/lost that game, they would have lost the league there and then), especially when the latter could have easily got a draw at least against them.

    It is a human fact of life that people are more likely to do better at their jobs if they know that their continued employment is always under threat rather than the opposite being the case (no matter how many times they screwed up). After all you do really think that Laporte & Ederson would put in the same terrible performances knowing that Koulibaly & Allison where waiting in the wings to snap up their places instead of Otamendi & Bravo?

    Even VVD had quite a few bad games this season (the 4-3 win to Crystal Palace and the 3-0 loss to Barcelona in the CL for example), performances he would have not have had if he was competing with lets say Koulibaly & Škriniar (as well as Gomez when fit) rather than Lovern & Matip for the CB places in the lineup.
  11. Aug 6, 2019

    BlueMoonOutcast Rag in Disguise

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    Cancelo announcement imminent. I hope we get to see this lineup at some point this season:

    Ederson

    Cancelo - Stones - Laporte - Mendy

    Bernardo - Rodri - De Bruyne

    Sterling - Aguero - Sane


    It's the stuff of dreams.
  12. Aug 6, 2019

    BobbyManc Full Member

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    This is an odd view. Of course competition normally will push a player to be at their best, but the idea that if City or Liverpool had stronger competition then the likes of Ederson/Laporte/van Dijk would not have made the same mistakes (which were very few anyway) is just pure conjecture. All three players had fantastic seasons but they are not perfect, no player is or will be, so of course you can point to games where they made errors. The idea that the greater competition will eliminate all errors is fantasy. Players make errors because they are humans. There is nothing to suggest van Dijk could have been any better last season simply if he had someone like Koulibaly to compete with rather than Matip. Bernardo Silva had a terrific season but he still made mistakes and he is unlikely to ever face tougher competition than Sane and Mahrez.
  13. Aug 6, 2019

    NJM78 Full Member

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    I can honestly see another domestic treble.
  14. Aug 6, 2019

    Red Keane New Member

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    Its a reality that applies to every fact of life, be it football or any other form of employment.

    Hence why both Messi & Ronaldo are still the best players in the world despite both approching their Mid-30s, because of the intense competition between themselves over said bragging rights.

    Bear in mind though that those players made those mistakes knowing that they would not suffer any serious consquences as a result of those actions, especially when no manager that has any sense would drop them for Bravo/Otamendi/Lovern due to how much worse these players are. So what is the incentive for them go out of their way to avoid making such mistakes?

    I am not asking them to be perfect (and yes they all had far better seasons than their counterparts at Manchester United), just that they don't make mistakes that are easily unavoidable, like VVD allowing a team that lacks any decent strikers (Crystal Palace) to almost beat Liverpool at their own home ground (and would have done so if they had a better goalkeeper than Julian "Drunken" Speroni behind the sticks) or Laporte allowing Fernando Llorente (whose main contribution last season until that point was scoring an own goal in a earlier match against Fulham) to score pass himself in a Champions League Quarter-Final.

    Again I am not asking for players to be pefect, only for them to not make mistakes that are clearly unavoidable. So while you are correct in saying that players make errors because they are indeed humans, they are also less likely to make said errors if there was an incentive to do so for the same reason, like having to fight for their places every single time they play knowing that one mistake would get them dropped from the team.

    And likewise because how competitive the Premier & Champions Leagues are these days, avoidiable errors have far more serious conseqences than what the case in the past. For example if Klopp had played a better CB than Lovern alongside VVD in the 2nd game against City in early January, they would have won the league there and then. Hence why clubs (especially the Top 6 ones) shoulf be less willing to tolerate them.

    If Van Dijk made a mistake that could have been avoided (as he did at times), how would Klopp be able to make sure that he does not make that make again? Because lets fact he can't exactly drop him from the team (to provide an incetive for him not to make said mistake) because playing Lovern over him would be a suicidal decision to make, something that would not be the case if VVD got dropped (to provide said incentive) for Koulibaly.

    Likewise its also the same reason why Lindelof has been able to get away with poor performances thoughout last season, because replacing him with Smalling/Jones would only make things worse as it has been shown on several occasions last season.

    To be fair to Bernardo Silva, he is playing out of position at RW and in reality is only real competition (since Sane cannot really play as a RW) is Mahrez. So if City decided to bring back Sancho for example, he would certainly be facing tougher competition than he is currently facing. Same if he was moved back into midfield.

    Regardless he clearly faces more competition for his place (be it as a CM or a RW, especially if Mahrez does get more familiar with Pep's ways of football than he did last season) than Laporte does at CB, which shows in from my perspective at least, Silva makes fewer mistakes (or at least less damaging mistakes) compared to Laporte.
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  15. Aug 6, 2019

    BobbyManc Full Member

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    Sane is still competition for Bernardo because Sterling plays on the right too. So if Bernardo does not play well most likely Sterling takes his spot and Sane comes into the side. Of course Bernardo's mistakes are less damaging than Laporte's, he's making them much higher up the pitch.

    Again, your logic is reasonably sound but you're taking it to the nth degree. van Dijk is in the running for the Balon D'or, he's literally been as good as anyone could have anticipated and you're still suggesting that he could have made less mistakes. I'd say that what you're suggesting is impossible. You're basically proposing that if Liverpool had Koulibaly as competition then van Dijk would have had an infallible season and not made a single error. Firstly, that's not true, because Koulibaly would play alongside him and van Dijk would play over Gomez/Lovren unless he went on a horrid run of form. So it would need Liverpool to basically have three world class CBs for it to even work. And in that case you could just make the opposite case that the added pressure of having to perform every game actually has an adverse influence on the player's performance.
  16. Aug 7, 2019

    Karel Podolsky New Member

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    Any progress on Cancelo - Danilo swap deal?

    Btw, How many trophies Danilo has won and will win in his career? I guess it will be up there with Maxwell :lol:
  17. Aug 7, 2019

    Thunderhead Full Member

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    Done deal, probably signed today
  18. Aug 7, 2019

    robinamicrowave Wanted to be bran, ended up being littlefinger

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    And there it is confirmed. That's us done for the window.
  19. Aug 7, 2019

    el3mel Full Member

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    Great business from them.

    They're going to win the league again and again.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  20. Aug 7, 2019

    starman Full Member

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    Am I reading the Cancelo deal correctly, in that City have signed him for effectively only 18m?If you factor in what City paid for Danilo from Real to what they sold him for to Juv...?
  21. Aug 7, 2019

    Bugs Bunny New Member

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    Kind of. We bought him for £27M and have apparently sold him for £34M so that's a £7M profit.

    Cancelo valued at £60M so they're getting Danilo plus £26M.

    Pretty good business imo.
  22. Aug 8, 2019

    DoneDaDa New Member

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    Could win you the CL

    But....

    Pep in the CL KO round away

    Ederson
    Walker-Stones-Ote-Laporte
    Dinho-Gundo
    D.Silva
    KdB-Aguero-Sterling
  23. Aug 8, 2019

    Kostov Full Member

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    Record breaking transfer for a full back, while having the likes of Walker, Mendy, Zinchenko and no one blinks an eye.
  24. Aug 8, 2019

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

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    Is Mendy even alive?
  25. Aug 8, 2019

    Kostov Full Member

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    I'm sure he's posting something on instagram
  26. Aug 8, 2019

    mitchmouse Full Member

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    i wonder i they run courses on how to get transfers done. I'd pay the money to sign up our cretin
  27. Aug 8, 2019

    Red Keane New Member

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    Then surely his competition would be Sterling & Mahrez under that definition. Regardless I had indeed forgotten that Sterling is still able to play on the right for City, my bad on that one...

    True, which goes to show how important (no matter how attacking minded or defense minded a system is) it is for any side (that wants to win trophies) to have a strong defence. No matter how many goals said side can score (As Liverpool Pre-VVD, & Arsenal since the Invincibles era have shown).

    Regardless of this, I still feel that Silva is making fewer mistakes (& having fewer bad games) than the likes of Salah (Who does not have as much competition for his place in the team as Silva does) due to the strong competition he faces at both positions that he can play in. Likewise one can also argue that his signing in the first place also helped Sterling improve his performances to become the player he is today, due to the competition for places it helped bring about.

    With VVD, I would admit there isn't as much he can further improve upon compared to other CBs in the current game (and yes he is the best CB in the world in terms of current form). But he still made enough avoidable mistakes (where he fell below his usual standard) at certain times during last season* to justify brining in another LCB to compete for his place. In other words instead of him performing at 90% of his capability, the aim should be having him performing 92-95% of his capability.

    Now while it does not sound like much at first, with the competition at the top being as tight as it is, improvements such as these are the difference that make or break any top clubs season.

    And regardless for CB's who are not Balon D'or like VVD (players such as Laporte, Stones & Maguire), the benefits of increased competition are far greater...

    *I can list examples to justify my point.

    No, my point is that VVD would have made fewer mistakes than he did rather than completely remove them altogether. Not that he made many in the first place of course...

    VVD is primarily a LCB though, hence why I deliberately picked Koulibaly (who is his main competition as the best LCB in the world) as a example, so playing VVD & Koulibaly as a CB Partnership would not be the best solution when...

    ..Another RCB would be need to be brought in as well to fully address Liverpool's issues at CB, someone like De Ligt (both they and our own clubs missed a massive opportunity to sign up for £85 million, now we all face the prospect of having to sign him for £120 million instead) or Škriniar that can fully address it once and for all. Because there is no point in having both VVD & Koulibaly when you also have Lovern & Matip as well, so they are better off ditching those 2 and get Škriniar/De Ligt in as well.

    Well every Top side needs to have at least 4 good (at least) options at CB (In Liverpool's case having VVD, Koulibaly, Škriniar/De Ligt & Gomez will address this), with the purposes to provide enough depth to compete on all fronts, to cover for any injuries and of course to provide the needed competition for every one of those CB's to perform at the highest possible level.

    Thus it is a failure of both our clubs to obtain this which explains a lot about how my club is in the state it is in and why your club has yet to win the CL under Pep (despite being in a pretty good position to do so otherwise). Or even why Liverpool ended up losing the League (by not having it themselves)...

    True, although one should raise question marks about if a player of that mentality has a place at the highest levels of the game, especially when there would be less need to play every single game of the season due to the additional depth/competition that would be in place under such circumstances, circumstances where players play fewer games, but are able to have better performances in the games that they do
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  28. Aug 8, 2019

    Gentleman Jim It's absolutely amazing!

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    Sneaked a couple of deadline day transfers in.
    Scott Carson from Derby as 3rd keeper and putter outer of cones on training ground plus one Pedro Porro from Girona.
    Porro is highly regarded RB and some big clubs were sniffing around him so he was signed to City and loaned out to Rayo Valladolid.
  29. Aug 8, 2019

    Random Task Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    Good grief.

    Is there any point in even showing up?
  30. Aug 8, 2019

    VorZakone What would Kenny G do?

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    Do they have 3 natural CB's now? Who's 4th behind Otamendi, Laporte and Stones?

    Not sure if it's smart gambling on Fernandinho as the 4th CB option.
  31. Aug 8, 2019

    DoneDaDa New Member

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    I assume they're going to use Walker at CB quite a few times this season.
  32. Aug 9, 2019

    BlueMoonOutcast Rag in Disguise

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    Well we've lost Sane until March so my dream died before it really started.
  33. Aug 9, 2019

    robinamicrowave Wanted to be bran, ended up being littlefinger

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    Wonder how often we'll see:

    Ederson
    Walker, Stones, Laporte
    Cancelo, De Bruyne, Rodri, Silva, Mendy
    Sterling, Aguero
  34. Aug 9, 2019

    Klopper76 "Did you see Fabinho against Red Star & Cardiff?"

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    Seems a bit harsh on Bernardo Silva. He's one of your best players imo.
  35. Aug 9, 2019

    Gentleman Jim It's absolutely amazing!

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    Pep said that he regarded Bernardo as the best player in the PL last season so little likelihood of him being relegated from the First Team very often but he will be rotated out sometimes and maybe injured (please not seriously).
  36. Aug 11, 2019

    UNITED ACADEMY Full Member

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    I have to say Zinchenko looks really good last night. I won’t be surprised if he nailed that left back spot with Mendy being an injury prone surely Pep would rather develop Zinchenko to be his permanent left back at city.

    City overall have a good team to be likely win the league again. But not convinced with John Stones.
  37. Aug 11, 2019

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

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    Hence why pep wanted maguire
  38. Aug 11, 2019

    Pierluigi Casiraghi New Member

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    Really? I've always thought he looked ordinary when I've seen him. Neat and tidy but not much more. Think he was an AMF when City bought him?
  39. Aug 11, 2019

    BlackBinBag New Member

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    Zinchenko had a torrid time in the CS. He's a better defender than Mendy but not as good offensively. Mendy is pretty much done now & i don't see him ever being consistently injury free so it looks like Zinchenko is in the chair either way.
  40. Aug 11, 2019

    thebonusplan New Member

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    Correct. I think he still plays in that position for Ukraine.