It's probably not that bad really. In any other season they'd probably be only 5-6 points behind Liverpool. Its just that Liverpool have raised the bar so high this season and won every game except one.
Manchester City 19/20 season
- Thread starter Gentleman Jim
- Start date
They are behind Leicester too no? Only 6 above Chelsea. They have fallen below their own standards
True, but you'd at least give them a chance of getting their shit together in the second half of the season (since Leicester have been "exposed as frauds" too)
But, Liverpool
5 losses by December..
Even if Liverpool were only on course for 95 points we'd be 8 or 9 behind them and on course to finish about 15-16 behind. Liverpool upon checking haven't raised the bar but we have dropped our standards dramatically. In our 17/18 season we actually had 58 points after 20 games, something Liverpool are only on course to match with a far worse goal difference.
We aren't in the crisis or the embarassment many make out but lets call a spade a spade, we've been piss poor by our own high standards. 7 or 8 years ago this might have been borderline title challenging form (because we win so many games and rarely draw so it would cover the losses). Nowadays hitting low 80's in points is miles away.
But we are likely to lose 10 games + this season. Pep has only lost 17 league games in english football, its quite likely he'll finish this season with as many losses as his previous 3 seasons combined.
Also to note is of the 17 losses, 8 have come over the christmas period, which shows he refuses to adapt his tactics to the schedule.
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Like I said in any other season the top two/three would be a lot closer. United lost 6 games and drew a quite a few after 19 games in the 02/03 season and still won the league.
The league was a total different beast then. It's really changed in the last few years. Maybe it'll go back to that way, and I hope it does, I think teams needing to be this ridiculously machine like is less entertaining.
Not to mention emotionally exhausting for the supporters.
I'd prefer it if my team's title chances didn't vanish because of a couple of away draws in October!Its definitely less entertaining. If this was City continuing their domination I'd be bored. I'm sure City fans and everyone else is bored waiting for Liverpool to drop points too. If I remember correctly the 02/03 season had you on 2 points after the first 4 games while we were on 9? I'm sure that was when I produced the classic 'Get Your League Tables Out For The Lads' thread.
Anyone got the video of Mahrez accidently revealing in an interview Fernandinho is leaving at the end of the season?
Liverpool are on course for 110 points. They definitely have raised the bar while you have simultaneously dropped your standards. If Liverpool can keep up this level until the end of the season (and that's a big if, IMO) they play the best season ever played by any team in the European top leagues. Neither prime Barca nor prime Madrid nor prime Juventus nor prime Bayern nor prime PSG come close to that number. What we are currently witnessing is truly special, no denying that. Credit where credit is due.
As good as Liverpool have been this season, all they have done so far is keep pace with Man City's progress in 17/18. People forget just how phenomenonal this first half performance was.
I give them loads of credit, its likely theyll be on 58 points from 20 games which is exactly the same as city in the 100 pt season but with a massively inferior goal difference.
If they keep this up theyll surpass us, but at this point of the season they are actually no better than that city team.
The reality is liverpool have not surpassed that, just weve been worse than joses united in our challenge.
Thats not to belittle them, to match that city season is incredible.
Laporte back in light training, weeks away from playing according to Pep, maybe back for early February if we're lucky. Wonder how we'll line up than... if we stick we 3 at the back will he bench Garcia or one of the midfielders we play there (Rodri/Fernandinho)
Regardless of the score this game sums up our season. With no offence to United, another game where we just switch off pass the ball terribly and let a team who shouldn't be in the match, right back through a combination of arrogance and laziness.
Mancity is definitely weaker this year. Lets be honest with that. Your team has alot of aging players that were huge for those record breaking seasons. Players like Silva. Every Mancity fan provides the excuse that Laporte injury is the sole reason for the dip in results. Laporte is hardly a WC player like VVD that Liverpool has. I’m not jmpressed with what I have seen from Rodri and Walker/ Otamendi to me are a liability as well. So even with Laporte, your defense is not exactly World Beaters
The goal difference thing is not even a big deal. Klopp is conserving energy with his players. That game vs Leicester when they won 4-0, Klopp was unhappy because he was good with the 2-0 and did not want his players to keep going flat out. He wanted them to control the game and minimize chance of injury.
The goal difference thing is not even a big deal. Klopp is conserving energy with his players. That game vs Leicester when they won 4-0, Klopp was unhappy because he was good with the 2-0 and did not want his players to keep going flat out. He wanted them to control the game and minimize chance of injury.
I agree with most of that especially the Rodri part. That said Laporte is easily a top 5 CB in world football atm. He's a City player who is probably voted the 2nd best CB in world football on a United forum, he is absolutely world class although Van Dijk is on another level.
Of course Liverpool are going flat out, like City yesterday they should be easing off when ahead, but Liverpool have won about 1m games this season in the last 5 minutes, so they've had to be flat out for most the games. While they are matching our points total from two seasons ago they have been nowhere near as dominant in those wins. What is really impressive thing about Liverpool is they have been amazing against there nearest rivals (City and Leicester) and dismantled both and they can win when not at their best (something City can't do.)
Question for United fans - Who out of the current United squad would get into the City team. I count 4, maybe 5.
His performance level has declined. I think the way Rashford was able to get past him easily was telling. In previous years he was offered more protection but he could be trusted more as the last man at the back. The combination of the midfield being more porous and Otamendi losing form and Stones in and out with injury has fecked City in the first half of the season.
That said it's been interesting (except when against us) to see how Pep has tinkered the setup. They look to be more willing to play quickly on the counter (not that they couldn't before). Walker and Mendy hold back more. It's made them relatively more stable, but their achilles heel remains their finishing.
If you were talking about a starting 11 then you would probably only have 3 Utd players in there. Wan Bissaka at RB, Mcguire at CB & Williams at LB. The GK position is tough to call as DDG is a better shot stopper but Ederson has much better distribution. You would take Ederson in the league as he's never under that much pressure. Would use DDG in the CL though as you would be put under more pressure & making saves would be more important than distribution. Pogba is good enough for your starting 11 & there wouldn't be a massive drop off if he replaced KDB. You would obviously have KDB as first choice when fit though.
We would have more players that would get into your squad though. Mctominay would get in over Gundogan & Rodri. Rashford & Martial would both get in over Jesus. Romero would obviously replace Bravo
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Do you think Laporte will get into the french side? A bit strange he was not playing for them in the world cup.
The laporte/france thing was really weird. Ive heard evetything from players dont like him cause hes arrogant to it being political because hes Basque.
Zouma and Rami regularly selected ahead of him is crazy. Laporte himself has suggested its personal but Deschamps denies it and says he has too many left footers. Whatever about lenglet and varane, Umtiti/zouma and rami ahead of him in the pecking order is certainly strange.
He did get called up just before his injury due to pressure on deschamps from the french fans.
Wan Bissaka gets flack from United fans for being too conservative, you think he gets into a Guardiola side? WIlliams is too raw to even consider. Maguire, sure.
DDG of a few years ago would probably start for them in the CL, but he's dropped a level recently so it's Ederson I think. Plus you underrate how important distribution is to a Guardiola side.
Agreed on Pogba. Agreed on Romero over Bravo. Tossup on Rashford/Martial vs Jesus, but it's not ridiculous. You think McTominay replaces Gundogan/Rodri? I want what you're smoking.
It is not like they needed him to win the world cup. Giroud up top worked too for them. A bit like with Sane and Germany before the world cup too.
Walker can only get forward as much as he does due to having a £50 or £60 Mill winger in front of him. This gives him the room to operate. Wan Bissaka has a £20 Mill winger in front of him who has just come from the Championship & wasn't even supposed to be a regular stater. He's obviously not going to have had the same kind of opportunities to get forward as Walker has. Wan Bissaka is far superior defensively though. He's proved this by completely shutting down Sterling in the Derby at the Council House.
Wiliams may be raw but he's slotted in extremely well. He's doing this at a huge club in a bad moment. It's not as if his counterparts at City in Mendy, Angelino & Zinchenko are any good even if they are more experienced.
A lot of the City fans i know don't rate Gundogan & are very much of the opinion that he only gets game time due to being a Pep favourite. Rodri hasn't been in the PL long but i haven't seen anything that makes me think he's anything special let alone a £60 Mill player.
Well too early to say Williams would start at LB for them. Both teams are a bit of a shambles in that department at the moment. Williams has started like 4/5 Prem games, and looked unconvincing in a few of them. Mendy has declined massively and can barely stay fit but he's also put in some good performances when he has.
Rodri is much better than McTominay. He's still settling in so inconsistency is to be expected but even now, I'd take him over McTominay. Rodri will only get better and better. Rashford and Martial, I agree with.
My issue with Rodri is that his reaction speed seems slow. I believe he was partly at fault for our lone goal vs Mancity.
As for DDG and Ederson, I am a huge DDG fan but his form and confidence is so low these days I would not replace Ederson for DDG in City. Can I also say that I am not a fan of Ederson’s tattoo on his neck?
I would also like to say that I believe Bernardo Silva will be your best player soon. Sterling is great but he still lacks a certain touch to me. KDB is truly WC of course. However Bernardo is an absolute joy to watch (which pains me to say). He’s great with his feet, incredibly quick and has fantastic vision. He makes everyone around him better. Woodward you fecked up another transfer!
As for DDG and Ederson, I am a huge DDG fan but his form and confidence is so low these days I would not replace Ederson for DDG in City. Can I also say that I am not a fan of Ederson’s tattoo on his neck?
I would also like to say that I believe Bernardo Silva will be your best player soon. Sterling is great but he still lacks a certain touch to me. KDB is truly WC of course. However Bernardo is an absolute joy to watch (which pains me to say). He’s great with his feet, incredibly quick and has fantastic vision. He makes everyone around him better. Woodward you fecked up another transfer!
They are after Milan Skriniar apparently. We should be all over him, but obviously we aren't. Would be a great signing for them, him and Laporte would be formidable at the back. They've got no chance of getting him in January though.
It's a mad one that, France's best two centre backs, Laporte and Koulibaly, don't even play for them. When you consider they are already the world champions and could theoretically have also had those two plus Mahrez plus Aubameyang , it's crazy.
Mahrez and Auba commited to Gabon and Algeria at a young age, so they were a no-go really, with Koulibaly he waited til his mid 20s before finally accepting a Senegal call up, Laporte is a weird one though, he's eligible yet gets left out regularly for trash like Zouma, Rami and Sakho. I don't get it.
Mendy, Angelino & Zinchenko have all had play time in a functioning team yet haven't been convincing. Williams has put in at the deep end & acquitted himself well. He's the last cab off the rank so to speak. We've seen what Mendy, Angelino & Zinchenko have to offer & for 1 reason or another they've failed to grasp the nettle. If you had all 4 LB's on your books then Williams would come in due to the other 3 being unable perform at a decent level.
Rodri is suited to European football. Looks off the pace in the PL though. It's early days & he may well acclimatize to the pace of the league. At the moment though Mctominay has the edge & would function better in this current City team if he was deputizing Fernandinho.
It feels as though City peaked last season, and the transitional period wasn't helped by the long term injuries to two of our younger players Sane and Laporte, plus Bernardo Silva's autumnal loss of form.
However, it's worth noting that since 2012, City are the only Premier League Winners to qualify for the Champions League the following season.
United 7th (Moyes sacked)
Chelsea 10th (Mourinho sacked)
Leicester 12th (Ranieri sacked)
Chelsea 5th (Conte sacked)
Just remember when you talk about a weak defence of the title.
However, it's worth noting that since 2012, City are the only Premier League Winners to qualify for the Champions League the following season.
United 7th (Moyes sacked)
Chelsea 10th (Mourinho sacked)
Leicester 12th (Ranieri sacked)
Chelsea 5th (Conte sacked)
Just remember when you talk about a weak defence of the title.
Best team in England.
This could’ve been 0-10 today.
They are scarily good and equally unfortunate this season. Those players and Guardiola must wonder how on earth they’re so far behind such an inferior team in Liverpool. It’s incredible.
They are scarily good and equally unfortunate this season. Those players and Guardiola must wonder how on earth they’re so far behind such an inferior team in Liverpool. It’s incredible.
Been trying to think of a way to put it about Liverpool and City, and I think the best way is that City on any given day this season could be between a 3 and a 10, whereas Liverpool are between a 6 and a 9.
In short, City have the higher peak and the lower bottom level, but Liverpool are more consistent.
In short, City have the higher peak and the lower bottom level, but Liverpool are more consistent.
Liverpool have by far the better defense and a bit more luck this season. They dont have a weak point and are much more balanced.
City are an attacking side, but their defensive instability costs them time and time again if they dont outscore the opponents, which can happen if your team gets dragged down due to defensive mistakes and you lose the moral. It was never going to last once some key defensive members picked up an injury.
City’s midfield is actually a big issue also the way pep has set them up this season. Gundogan Rodri Silva is incredibly one paced and lacks the mobility to compete with the very best of midfields.
Fair.
Not really. The main difference is that other teams are often extremely efficient vs City, while wasteful and/or giving away ridiculous goals vs Liverpool. Also literally everything that is marginal going Liverpool's way.
Liverpool are the better team defensively this year, that much is obvious. But City create more chances by even a larger margin. That's against all teams, not just weaker ones. Liverpool are better at finishing, but it still doesn't account for such a huge difference in points. It's just a bizarre sequence of events. Liverpool do look more concentrated and confident, but City still play better football overall. It should be a lot closer than it currently is.
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1. Profligate finishing has fecked them in most games they've lost this season. Except against us at the Etihad, we simply outplayed them
2. Losing Fernandinho in midfield has made their midfield more porous, putting an injury hit defense under pressure more. Rodri hasn't adapted to handling transitions seamlessly
3. Otamendi is showing his age finally. Their best defender has been out. Stones has been in and out with injury. Zinchenko has been out and Mendy looked like a league 2 player at times this season. They've conceded most goals from the left this season (Walker has been their best defender this season). Should have simply got a replacement for Kompany.
All said, Liverpool deserve their lead as they've been the best team so far in the league. Not by 14 points though. It's been a freak season for City.
2. Losing Fernandinho in midfield has made their midfield more porous, putting an injury hit defense under pressure more. Rodri hasn't adapted to handling transitions seamlessly
3. Otamendi is showing his age finally. Their best defender has been out. Stones has been in and out with injury. Zinchenko has been out and Mendy looked like a league 2 player at times this season. They've conceded most goals from the left this season (Walker has been their best defender this season). Should have simply got a replacement for Kompany.
All said, Liverpool deserve their lead as they've been the best team so far in the league. Not by 14 points though. It's been a freak season for City.