Their season was fecked as soon as Laporte got injured. You just can't have the clowns in Def that they have and still win the league. The difference shouldn't be anywhere close to what it is though, that's fair but then they've had a season where every mistake gets punished while Pool are having one where every 50-50 goes their way.
Manchester City 19/20 season
- Thread starter Gentleman Jim
- Start date
This is something I disagree with when it comes up. Our CB's are quite decent, just left ruthlessly exposed because of the system.
Its why I think VVD's effect on Liverpool is overrated. He's the best CB in the world for sure but were Liverpool stick rocking the heavy metal football, he'd only be able to cover so much and Matip/Lovren would still look like clowns despite being great this season.
Put Otamendi and Fernandinho in a Jose or Simone team as CB's and they'd look quite decent. Partner one of them with a world class CB and they'd look very, very good. You could put Gomez, Matip and Lovren in the current City team and they'd look like Ota and co.. but our CB's in Liverpool's system and they'd do easily as well as Liverpool's (VVD aside). The reason the Laporte injury effected us so much is the having to play with no DM as opposed to actually missing Laporte. You put a fit Laporte in and keep Rodri in the Fernandinho role and our results honestly don't change much.
This
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I don't think Stones has ever been good enough defensively, Otamendi was okay but has fallen off a cliff and become incredibly reckless while Mendy is very shaky at LB. If Fernandinho at DM was the biggest miss, Pep would have just played him there and gone with a Otamendi Stones pairing at the back. He's actually mentioned the absolute opposite saying he plays Fernandinho there because he likes him the most at cb.
Edit: I do agree Pep's system leaves your CBs exposed btw, definitely. Just saying the quality of players there isn't good enough anyway and is the bigger problem.
Stones i agree on, Tom Pope was right, he has everything to be a CB but the balls. I still class Zinchenko as our LB. I do though firmly believe you put a back 4 of Walker, Otamendi, Fernandinho, Mendy (and I fecking hate Mendy) in the hands of a Simone, Klopp,, Jose or even Poch and they look every inch a proper back 4. In a more balanced system, a cb misses a tackle and their is loads of cover, in Cities someone misses a tackle and it always equals a goal. The players aren't world class for sure. I would say they are though CL level defenders, top 4 level.
Shots on target to goals vs us this season in our losses/draws.
Wolves 3 shots on target, 3 goals.
United murdered us. 7 shots on target.
Newcastle 3 shots on target 2 goals.
Liverpool 5 shots on target 3 goals.
Wolves 2 shots on target 2 goals.
Norwich 3 shots on target 3 goals.
Spurs 2 shots on target 2 goals.
In the 7 games we've dropped points this season we've faced 22 shots on target and conceded 17 goals. That's 85% of shots on target in our net. Take out the United game and we've conceded 15 goals from 18 shots on target.
We don't give up many chances because we have so much of the ball but when we give up chances they are guilt edged because we defend with 2 or 3 men.
Tom Pope is an idiot
The stats you posted are ridiculous. In previous seasons your defense/midfield was great at not only keeping down the number of shots conceded, but the quality of shots conceded. Now due to your continued dominance of possession the number of shots conceded is relatively low, but the quality of chances has gone up massively, due to how poor your midfield has been in transition (Rodri getting up to speed, Silva the Elder not pressing as much, Gundogan being lazy).
Now the obvious criticism is aimed at the defenders but if you watch City games then like you said, put any defender in your back line earlier this season and they look like clowns also.
100%, nail on the head there. But I do agree Stones is too soft to be a top CB, Pope is an idiot but had a point in a very idiotic way.
Has there been some kind of rule change whereby Martin Tyler can only used the phrase "Tactical foul" if Fernandinho commits an offence?
He certainly didn't use it when Liverpool were panicking on Saturday.
He certainly didn't use it when Liverpool were panicking on Saturday.
Another game where we were utterly dominant and lost to a compact and organised yet inferior team. Fair enough DDG made a few good saves and a couple of narrow offsides but Pep needs to cop the feck on. The solution is simple, put Fernandinho in fecking midfield.
Real are going to rip us asunder on the counter. I wouldn't be surprised to see us get a result at the Bernabeau and get mullered at the Etihad.
Real are going to rip us asunder on the counter. I wouldn't be surprised to see us get a result at the Bernabeau and get mullered at the Etihad.
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Another tetchy Pep interview after the game too. A mauling in the CL might finish him off! He won tonight and looked miserable.
He is far too stubborn and can’t admit when he gets it wrong. It will be his undoing yet again in the CL.
He is far too stubborn and can’t admit when he gets it wrong. It will be his undoing yet again in the CL.
Do City even practice finishing?
City's ability to create chances even against parked buses is matched only by how shit they've been this season at putting them away (Sterling in particular has been woeful)
City's ability to create chances even against parked buses is matched only by how shit they've been this season at putting them away (Sterling in particular has been woeful)
Its crazy, its either feast or famine with us. Either we have one of those games where we're banging them in for fun or else we have games like tonight.
Sterling needs dropping and to be left benched for awhile. He's not the same player since the Gomez thing. I'd honestly love to see Pep give Jesus a chance on the left. He's also become stupidly greedy, that chance where he went round DDG and hit the ball into space, all he had to do was roll the ball to Mahrez.
If feels like if we don't score early than when the pressure is on, only Sergio is capable of banging in a winner. KDB and Bernardo occasionally. We also have a lack of leaders... I think losing Kompany has had a huge effect on picking the team up and driving them on. When things get hard this team balks.
Lost their edge this year, still overwhelming against the weaker teams but better opposition know that if you can withstand the push then the chances are there. Gundogan and Rodri is too physically limited a midfield for all their talent.
I also think they miss Sane for that change of pace and variation in his game compared to the cutting in of Mahrez/Sterling and Silva.
I also think they miss Sane for that change of pace and variation in his game compared to the cutting in of Mahrez/Sterling and Silva.
Can't say they are looking particular special any more really. Our thin squad was even thinner tonight through yet more injuries and we still managed to beat them. That's two deserved wins at the Etihad this season. Shame about the OG in the first leg as I reckon we'd of gone though.
Not sure what they need in the summer but it kinda feels lifeless there at the moment.
Not sure what they need in the summer but it kinda feels lifeless there at the moment.
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Surprised by De Bruyne’ insistence in the interview on how “unlucky” they were. They Obviously started well and should have probably scored in the first twenty minutes but between then and about the hour mark they were completely useless, probably the worse I’ve seen from them against us under Pep. We literally went 40 or so minutes at the Etihad completely comfortable.
They have this habit of trying to finish the game in the first 15 mins and if they don’t doubt creeps in and they struggle.
They have this habit of trying to finish the game in the first 15 mins and if they don’t doubt creeps in and they struggle.
Pep and KDB sounded very petty again post match. Ruffled
Because they aren't the best in the country now and all the pressure is on them to win the CL or technically Pep has failed. They like winning the cups, but they are only supposed to be an extra to the big prizes. They got to the final, there is no need for them to be like this.
City think that everybody should just stand back and admire their football, so they can just walk the ball in the net. Don't like it it someone actually makes it difficult for them.
Then again the fact they are such shit 'losers' is what partly makes them such winners. Also, it's hard to argue too much about the content of what they said, despite the manner.
I think it's about having a bit of grace and class though isn't it? If KDB genuinely believes what he said last night then it's a worry as bar the opening 15 minutes a very weakened United side were comfortable. It was the same in the PL game (although we had more players fit and played you off the park for the first 60) yet you had a few chances near the end.
Pep also going on about Ed Woodward and not being willing to separate that from the City fans Munich abuse was tasteless too. Expect better.
Pep football has always had this issue, great for first couple seasons when it is new.
Once teams realise you defend, and wait for the opportunity to counter the press. Teams who defend well only need one phase to counter the press and they are in behind.
There is no right or wrong way of playing football, it is a results business, he needs to adapt after a couple seasons and has failed on 3 occasions.
In comparison to Klopp, he has changed his style of play this season and teams havent figured it out. They have different styles. Pep doesn't.
Once teams realise you defend, and wait for the opportunity to counter the press. Teams who defend well only need one phase to counter the press and they are in behind.
There is no right or wrong way of playing football, it is a results business, he needs to adapt after a couple seasons and has failed on 3 occasions.
In comparison to Klopp, he has changed his style of play this season and teams havent figured it out. They have different styles. Pep doesn't.
The aura of invincibility they had previously is gone. Very good team but not as feared as before mainly because of D Silva decline. He is the real star that made everything tick.
I can see Real Madrid eating them up in CL and the season will be almost over by then. Poor season all things considered
I can see Real Madrid eating them up in CL and the season will be almost over by then. Poor season all things considered
What odds on Pep to Juve at the end of the season?
They were not unlucky, but if they brought their shooting boots we would have been fecked.
Great result by us but the amount of chances we conceded over the game would be punished by more clinical teams.
The goal against the run of play rattled them but they were back on top after 60 minutes.
Pep is looking bored to me. He would have probably been better sticking to a 3 year contract as this seems to be the cycle most suitable to him.
The Bitters i know are also furious with him for calling them out on their lack of support. He never did this during his time at Barca & Bayern.
The Bitters i know are also furious with him for calling them out on their lack of support. He never did this during his time at Barca & Bayern.
The biggest issue Manchester City have is their player recruitment.
Pep Guardiola's insistence to start David Silva is also one of the main reasons they are so far behind Liverpool. They create the most goal scoring chances and can't finish them. It reminds me of Pep Guardiola's first season at the club.
Another big issue is the holding midfielder spot. Rodri is a good player, but starting him, David Silva and Gundogan is a very big mistake. They are to easily countered. Fernandinho was a very unique player in that position. He was fast, aggressive, good in the air and great at winning second balls. It is not Rodri's fault that he cannot defend large spaces very well. I still believe that Manchester City should have signed Thomas Partey instead of Rodri. If the lines are not tight, he can be easily overun and with David Silva in the side, Manchester City press in a 442 shape that is easy to bypass.
Phil Foden should really be starting of David Silva.
Pep Guardiola's insistence to start David Silva is also one of the main reasons they are so far behind Liverpool. They create the most goal scoring chances and can't finish them. It reminds me of Pep Guardiola's first season at the club.
Another big issue is the holding midfielder spot. Rodri is a good player, but starting him, David Silva and Gundogan is a very big mistake. They are to easily countered. Fernandinho was a very unique player in that position. He was fast, aggressive, good in the air and great at winning second balls. It is not Rodri's fault that he cannot defend large spaces very well. I still believe that Manchester City should have signed Thomas Partey instead of Rodri. If the lines are not tight, he can be easily overun and with David Silva in the side, Manchester City press in a 442 shape that is easy to bypass.
Phil Foden should really be starting of David Silva.
Was there last night and the atmosphere is pretty toxic in the ground from the fans. They seemed to be waiting for stuff to complain about in a weird way.
Co-signed on the bolded.
Wasn't Pep very complimentary of you guys? Pretty sure he was. Would you prefer if he said we were lucky in a tie we completely dominated over 180 minutes. If anything Pep was over complimentary about your performance...
The league game you deserved to win, last night you were only in the game because of poor finishing. 3-2 over 2 legs completely and utterly flatters you guys.
Shotsin the 2nd leg: City 13 v United 6. On Target: 4v2
Shots in the 1st leg: City 15 v United 8. On Target: 5v3
If anything we were more dominant last night and controlled the game better than the first leg(we had far more of the ball and gave up less chances). Just a couple of good DDG saves, 2 close offside and Silva and Sterling shitting the bed, stopped that game being another hammering.
28 shots to 14, 9 shots on target to 5. 16% more of the ball over the 2 legs.
The narrative you deserved anything from the tie is a false one and KDB was right, you didn't have another chance bar the goal. I can't even remember who had your other shot on target.
He didn't say you weren't comfortable, he said you didn't create anything and we were comfortable. See my above post, he was 100% spot on. We also created 2 guilt edged chances for Sterling and David Silva that both balked at.
100% on this, stupid thing to say. Should have just said those fans are dickheads and left the Woodward thing out of it. Typical Pep styled deflection.
We're the weirdest set of fans going. It's like half the people in the ground default to "angry mode" if we don't bury our very first chance, and if we're not 2-0 up with fifteen minutes to go the place always the potential to collapse into complete panic. The only stadium worse than ours for getting on the team's back is Goodison Park. The one thing we have in common with Everton is that our neighbours and closest rivals are historically dominant, so maybe some insecurity's crept in over the years. We weren't at our best last night but neither team covered themselves in glory really. City were nervous sometimes and a bit sloppy in front of goal so it ended up being harder than it should have been, while United needed to chase the game but never looked like scoring from open play. Regardless, we're in a League Cup final we should win - and if we do, that'll be three in a row. Take a look at Twitter/Blue Moon and you'd think we'd gone out. It's sad watching us forget where we were once.
There are popular City fans on social media saying they're "still angry" at Silva for passing to Gundogan and not shooting last night. If we'd gone out because of that miss I'd get the frustration, but we're in yet another cup final. We should be celebrating. We've gone from being a set of supporters who would have begged to reach any final to being angry that we didn't reach our third consecutive cup final with enough style and finesse. Talk about an identity crisis. What's happened there? We've got problems this season, no doubt, but after two years of total and complete dominance of the English game, we're still comfortably in the top four and odds on to win at least two domestic honours. It's piss easy to support City these days and I'm not sure our fans are adjusting to it. We're used to having something to feel aggrieved about, I guess, and for the longest time we've had very little need to vent. The first sign that all isn't rosy and we've released the valve as hard as we can.
If these problems were chronic or indicative of a collapse then I'd understand a little more, but the issues we've got will be cured to the tune of £200m+ spending in the summer, and we'll just go back to having a superteam again. What a struggle. I sometimes wonder about the ages of the City fans who drive the social media narrative about the club. We're currently holders of a domestic treble; what more than this team possibly give us? I'm only 25 but I've followed us since we were managed by Joe Royle. I was sixteen before I saw my team win a major trophy, seventeen before I saw us play a Champions League game, in my 20s by the time we were definitely, unquestionably better than United for once. And now I support a team who are super rich, have one of the world's best teams and one of the worlds best managers, and who won almost everything in sight last season. I live a fifteen minute walk from Stockport County, who are having their best season for almost a decade - they're just outside the play-offs in the Conference. It shouldn't be understated how much perspective fans of top clubs really need.
Yeah that's what I saw last night basically.
I met a mate in that Summerbeers at full time (he had a spare season card so I got in with that) for a pint and there was people fuming about it still. I get it was a poor performance overall but it happens in football, people in my work are still annoyed about it this morning and adamant you'll lose to Villa in the final! I think there was always going to be a period after last year when things went a bit pear shaped as it does get stale and the players get tired etc, I expect the same to happen to Liverpool in all honesty but it was mad there last night, it is frustrating but I think the Goodison example is spot on that's probably the most toxic ground I've ever been to.
Re County I'm not far from there at all and I have been a few times over the last 5 or so years I've lived nearish to them and I honestly think it can be a better day than going to watch a top club. The fans are more laid back and generally in a better mood, once the game is done it's normally that's it win or lose, it's obviously much cheaper and it just doesn't seem as toxic. Old Trafford is going similar to what I saw last night at times, everyone just seems ridiculously angry. Maybe it's what we go to football for, I go to Old Trafford with my mate I don't see other than outside football really and it's a good catch up before/after, a few beers and the game so I don't tend to get overly annoyed by it, obviously other people have different reasons to go and I suppose the game just means more to them. I did use to get more worked up but I think I've just lost a bit of interest or passion the older I've got.
You had a dominant start to the game last night but after the opening you didn't really fluster us to be honest. I'm not surprised with those stats given your facing a United team without Pogba, Mctominay and Rashford. There's little creativity at the moment and our most prolific finisher in injured.
You deserved to go through but I'm surprised you struggled so much given our current predicament.
I think the onus wasn't really on us and we played pretty much on the counter after you scored and it was more, just don't mess up again. I mean we could easily have went out last night despite controlling the tie but thats just us this season (Palace, Wolves, Newcastle all did the same to us), we control games for the most part and then concede whenever we give up a chance. I think Bruno will be a huge addition for you going forward, what made the game so comfortable for us was you had no one to really make that killer pass last night or pop up with a goal. I think you kind of huffed and puffed but we were comfortable despite conceding the first. You never looked like getting a second and we created very little but we did create those 2 guilt edged chances that you have to take against a team as compact and organised as you guys.
The way you play against us, chances are always at a premium. I think you should have taken the approach you took in the league derby and got stuck in from the start tbh. I kept waiting for you to push but you never did.
I don't think we had the players to take the same approach but you're right. In the league game we really played you off the park and you created nothing until near the end. We missed a hat full too.
Agreed about Bruno. Pogba, Fred, Bruno and Mctominay looks very functional to me. Roll on next season.
Yeah youshould have been 4 up at ht in that game. Those 4 would make for a nice diamond in mf. With rashford and martial up top. Will be interesting to see how you line up.
I think there's always a sense of impending doom amongst City fans due to your chequered history. The old timer fans want as much success as possible as they feel going off your past history that disaster is just around the corner. The younger fans know nothing of your past but are fully ensconced in the new world of instant gratification. The older fans dreamed of coming out from Utd's shadow while the younger fans thought that world domination was around the corner. There's a growing amount of frustration within your fanbase that the dreams didn't become reality. The project has reached it's high point, having assembled the best squad & recruting the best manager your ever likely to have. The only way from this point is down.
They are really overrated, aren't they?
For all the talk about greatest PL side ever(we had so many of those over the years, I am surprised no one is mentioning it), they managed just once this decade winning back to back titles in premiership, and even finished few times in 3rd and 4th place too with so many bad seasons for top teams in England this decade. Did nothing spectacular in CL too, and this season they are sitting 22 points behind Liverpool(we finished 22 points behind first place under Moyes after winning the title season before).
Amount of time people here went over the top with praising them over the years and especially under Guardiola just goes to show how overrated they are. If they don't do anything in CL this year I would argue that Pellegrini did better job than Guardiola
For all the talk about greatest PL side ever(we had so many of those over the years, I am surprised no one is mentioning it), they managed just once this decade winning back to back titles in premiership, and even finished few times in 3rd and 4th place too with so many bad seasons for top teams in England this decade. Did nothing spectacular in CL too, and this season they are sitting 22 points behind Liverpool(we finished 22 points behind first place under Moyes after winning the title season before).
Amount of time people here went over the top with praising them over the years and especially under Guardiola just goes to show how overrated they are. If they don't do anything in CL this year I would argue that Pellegrini did better job than Guardiola
Few months ago, Utd fans were admiring City and wishing we were in the position.
But at this moment, how many City players would you buy? Considering their age and injuries.
Keeper. No
Back four. Maybe Laporte (But with his injury, you probably wouldn't risk it).
Midfeild. Debryne, yes. Bernard Silva? Got Bruno now, so probably not.
David silva and fernindino ....too old.
Forwards. Sterling, yes.
Augero? Not worth it with price tag and age.
Mahrez? Possibly.
So basically.
Debryne
Sterling
And possibly Laporte and Mahrez.
How weird is that!
But at this moment, how many City players would you buy? Considering their age and injuries.
Keeper. No
Back four. Maybe Laporte (But with his injury, you probably wouldn't risk it).
Midfeild. Debryne, yes. Bernard Silva? Got Bruno now, so probably not.
David silva and fernindino ....too old.
Forwards. Sterling, yes.
Augero? Not worth it with price tag and age.
Mahrez? Possibly.
So basically.
Debryne
Sterling
And possibly Laporte and Mahrez.
How weird is that!