Manchester City banned from CL for 2 seasons and fined 30 million euros | CAS - Ban lifted, fined 10 million

stevoc

Full Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Messages
12,553
Location
And Solskjær has won it!
Nobody is downplaying the level of coaching and club maintenance that SAF did. Man Utd was a top club through both on field and off field management. That gave them a dominant advantage to bring in top players. That was also a time when TV money was individual to each club. Man Utd was raking in TV money while other clubs were getting scraps. All that exposure also drew in players who could get big endorsements. So yes clubs that could use funds, had to spend to get the same level of players. Man Utd was still in a dominant position and in the last 20 years has been spending as much as Chelsea and City. It is really disingenuous to say these clubs are spending their way to the top, Man Utd has just not got the return for their money. Some of that is probably due to a drop in managers since SAF retired. Look at the difference between Lampard and Tuchel with the same players. The other is your management and transfer deals are bizarre. Whom ever is trying to put these deals together is acting like they are going to dictate what other clubs will sell players for? Let alone the agents are never going to advise their clients to accept these deals. Man Utd are no longer the dominant club in the EPL, and most of the reasons are internal, not because City and Chelsea ruined anything. It would be different if you weren't buying expensive players and paying high wages. If Man Utd wants be dominant again, it will take getting back to having a well run club with top management. That does not exist right now and I am pretty sure level headed fans know that. Man Utd no longer values dominating the league. The club owners and management value top 4 for income and selling merchandise. It is who Man Utd is until the people running the club go back to valuing trophies. Right now even the manager says that winning trophies is just an ego boost. If the manager of Chelsea made that statement, I would count the days until he was sacked. You play to win.
What time period was this exactly?
 

stevoc

Full Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Messages
12,553
Location
And Solskjær has won it!
And democratic presidents don’t carry out illegal invasions / drone assassinations on foreign soil /run torture camps / fund the ongoing genocide in illegally occupied Palestine etc?

Point being that those throwing out accusations of sports washing at other clubs should look to who owns their own club and how clean their hands are.
No the point is billionaires fund both sides of the political spectrum in the US to hedge their bets and get tax breaks etc. for their companies from whichever sides eventually wins.

Now you could say that puts them in a morally grey area as to whether or not it makes them complicit with acts carried out by that government. At the very least it would probably make them enablers of that behaviour.

But there's a vast difference between that and being an actual member of or indeed the actual heads of government for one of these dictatorships that directly orders murders, killings, bombings, shootings, decapitations, the subjugation and oppression of LGBT people, Atheists, Civil rights campaigners etc. etc. etc.

The point is tenuous at best, it's been made on here a thousand times and probably pulled apart and debunked even more times. It's a pointless off topic discussion that inevitably derails whichever thread it's brought up in.
 

Chabon

Full Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
5,462
No country invades, interferes, bombs and murders like the USA does and those US governments are put in place by US billionaires (including the Glazers) and my point was that those lemon sucking United supporters calling out City for being supposedly funded by ‘dirty’ money are being ridiculous in a scenario where United is controlled by people who sponsor the US government.


We hate our owners because of who they are and what they’ve done, you adore yours regardless of their evils.
 

calodo2003

Flaming Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
9,707
Location
Florida
Man City fans :lol: There are some decent folk among you, but then there are the likes of you.

Trainwreck of a post after trainwreck of a post.

This is a footballing forum, but since you like to bring up politics let's discuss it.

There is a difference between donating to a political campaign and being part of an organized racket group. Learn the difference.

You mentioned Guantanamo being a death camp. Name me one person that died in it in the last 10 years. Pro tip, you can't because there weren't any. And here's another interesting statistic for you. Under Trump the number of detainees went down from 785 to just 55.

If you want to talk about war, then Trump is the only US president that didn't start a new war or conflict in more than 1 century. That thing alone should blow your mind. This also explains why the numbers went down at Guantanamo. No new conflicts, no new POWs.

And if you want to talk about Venezuela, then a group of 20 mercs that got rounded up in 20 minutes is hardly a war crime considering what the previous administrations did to Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia, Syria, Middle East in general.

Also Trump wasn't elected by the Glazers. It's not like they put him in power via proxy. USA has such a thing called democracy(technically Federal Republic) something that Monsour can learn a thing or two about. And guess what, the same system decided in 2020 that they don't want him as President. And all of that despite the Glazers funding him.

Your attempt at somehow trying to paint the Glazers as this crime syndicate that plays GoT style games within American politics is laughable. The Glazers only care about the money. They don't care if the US bombs a God forsaken country or not. The only reason they donated to the Trump campaign is to get tax cuts, which he delivered. Not saying the Glazers are saints, but you're just trying to whitewash away the crimes of your sugar daddy by making the Glazers x1000 worse than they are.

Also, let's keep this football related. I'm not in the mood to discuss politics right now.
What war did Obama start? The War on Christmas?

Not trying to create a tangent, but I simply cannot recall any new wars under him. Maybe Libya?
 

Chabon

Full Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
5,462
that's a sweeping generalisation if I've ever seen one
I’d like you to provide me with three separate direct quotes of City fans (other than David Conn) saying anything at all negative about Abu Dhabi United Group for Development and Investment.
 

Thunderhead

Full Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Messages
2,489
Supports
City
I’d like you to provide me with three separate direct quotes of City fans (other than David Conn) saying anything at all negative about Abu Dhabi United Group for Development and Investment.
So they've got to be in print or can I just phone a couple of mates who have no love of the owners, or the sizeable LGBT support who have no love of the owners, just 'cos we don't do a green and gold until we're sold (which didn't last that long) doesn't mean we love our owners or would have anything to do with them
 

Chabon

Full Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
5,462
So they've got to be in print or can I just phone a couple of mates who have no love of the owners, or the sizeable LGBT support who have no love of the owners, just 'cos we don't do a green and gold until we're sold (which didn't last that long) doesn't mean we love our owners or would have anything to do with them
There’s basically zero evidence of any dissent whatsoever from those who didn’t have the integrity to stop being City fans after being taken over and made over by some theocratic, slave-owning, feudal lords.

Trying to excuse it with ‘well your owners are awful shits too!’ is laughable. Yeah, we know. We sang ‘jelly and ice cream when Glazer dies’ and you chant your undying affection for some of the worst people in the world.

Not that I’m naive enough to believe that plenty of United fans wouldn’t have sold their soul for a bit of success, difference is, we never had to.

 

b20times

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
204
Isn't it odd, the timing of these tweets always seem to come out when they have an important game.
I don't know who this Tariq chap supports but he seems to have something against Manchester City that's for sure.
Hasn't all what he has put on twitter been done to death already?
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
18,638


We hate our owners because of who they are and what they’ve done, you adore yours regardless of their evils.
Very ignorant question but can you explain what is evil about Sheikh Mansour?
 

SER19

Full Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,418
isn't it City suing the PL not the other way round
Does it matter? The article states

'City is challenging the Premier League in Britain’s civil courts, where hearings have been held behind closed doors, and where publication of material related to the case has been kept confidential despite intense public interest in the case. It is not known what action the Premier League would take if it found City to have breached its rules. Penalties in its rule book include points deductions and fines.

City, backed by the billionaire brother of the crown prince of Abu Dhabi, one of the richest men in the world, waged a successful battle in 2020 when it won an appeal against a two-year ban from the Champions League after being found to have breached separate cost control rules by the European soccer governing body, UEFA. City won its case at the Switzerland-based Court of Arbitration after convincing judges that a time limit had elapsed on the evidence against it. The Premier League’s rules do not have similar deadlines.'

And of course they'll lawyer their way around what everybody apart from city fans can see
 

Thunderhead

Full Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Messages
2,489
Supports
City
Does it matter? The article states

'City is challenging the Premier League in Britain’s civil courts, where hearings have been held behind closed doors, and where publication of material related to the case has been kept confidential despite intense public interest in the case. It is not known what action the Premier League would take if it found City to have breached its rules. Penalties in its rule book include points deductions and fines.

City, backed by the billionaire brother of the crown prince of Abu Dhabi, one of the richest men in the world, waged a successful battle in 2020 when it won an appeal against a two-year ban from the Champions League after being found to have breached separate cost control rules by the European soccer governing body, UEFA. City won its case at the Switzerland-based Court of Arbitration after convincing judges that a time limit had elapsed on the evidence against it. The Premier League’s rules do not have similar deadlines.'

And of course they'll lawyer their way around what everybody apart from city fans can see

yeah that's fair enough but why would City sue the PL if they thought they would get a points deduction? They must be sure they can win if they're going to bring any sort of case.
 

SER19

Full Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,418
Very ignorant question but can you explain what is evil about Sheikh Mansour?
You mean the acceptable face of a human rights abusing, homophobic, slave labour supporting, multi billionaire family?
 

Woodzy

Full Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2004
Messages
11,293
Location
Cardiff
I haven’t bothered to read what the actual situation is but I believe the only fair outcome is to hand this years PL title to second place.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
18,638
You mean the acceptable face of a human rights abusing, homophobic, slave labour supporting, multi billionaire family?
Yeah, I'm likely being ignorant here. I just thought the issues you explained are seen massively in Qatar but with Sheikh Mansour being an Abu Dhabi Sheikh and I wasn't aware of what they are embroiled in? Can you confirm what it is that he or Abu Dhabi have been guilty of? This is a genuine question for my own understanding.
 

SER19

Full Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,418
You could put any leader of any other country under that heading too.
Can you get flogged or executed for being gay in the UK? Didn't know that.

That's just one example of how utterly shallow these comparisons are. The place is abhorrent in terms of rights of citizens. You're either incredibly naive or defensive of city for some reason
 

SER19

Full Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,418
Yeah, I'm likely being ignorant here. I just thought the issues you explained are seen massively in Qatar but with Sheikh Mansour being an Abu Dhabi Sheikh and I wasn't aware of what they are embroiled in? Can you confirm what it is that he or Abu Dhabi have been guilty of? This is a genuine question for my own understanding.
Google is a click away. Amnesty International may also have answers. Just don't hold a mans hand if you ever visit

In fact here's one jot of the many atrocities of the place

Consensual sexual behaviour continued to be prosecuted under Article 356 of the Penal Code, authorizing a minimum of one year in prison for “consensual violation of honour”, a clause that could be used to punish both same-sex sexual activity and extramarital sex. The provision was, in some cases, used to prosecute migrant labourers who had given birth out of wedlock, requiring such mothers to serve prison sentences before being allowed to leave the country.

Its almost as if owning a shiny football club sanitises their global image in some way
 

Liver_bird

Full Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
6,112
Location
England
Supports
Liverpool
Can you get flogged or executed for being gay in the UK? Didn't know that.

That's just one example of how utterly shallow these comparisons are. The place is abhorrent in terms of rights of citizens. You're either incredibly naive or defensive of city for some reason
Strange couple of posts from them. It's absolutely ridiculous the likes of Souness can go on sky and champion ambramovic and the mansour family. Hell even Neville has for the work done in the area. Yeah it is wonderful, but it is a blatant sportswashing exercise. You get the sense they realise that but are not willing to acknowledge it publicly. We have the rainbow campaign here in football and also a team with owners who have an appalling humans rights record. Are we just meant to compartmentalise the bad and take the good whenever we feel like.

It is quickly becoming a situation where everyone involved in football is looking increasingly guilty because of the types of owners we have allowed in to the game. Not to mention the effect it is having on the game itself.
 

Liver_bird

Full Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
6,112
Location
England
Supports
Liverpool
Started 2005, still active 2010. Protest now in 2021. Yes 16 years is not that long.

Why do City fans always deflect and resort to whataboutery when it comes to their dodgy owners?
Because they need an excuse to justify supporting a team with the owners they have. Same with Chelsea fans, most on here seem like sound people, does not change the fact their club is what is because of a russian oligarch.

The average casual fan just doesn't care about any of this.
 

Mb194dc

Full Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
Messages
2,598
Supports
Chelsea
Not exactly news given a document from the case was on twitter last week and in the Google cache from UK justice website.

Countdown to City being retrospectively stripped of two titles.... assuming they lose anyway :confused: , shame one might go to Liverpool. Guess City of Moscow public interest doesn't matter under US jurisdiction with the 1st amendment... Guess no UK paper can publish anything about it, yet.
 

TheReligion

Abusive
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
30,661
Location
Manchester
Because they need an excuse to justify supporting a team with the owners they have. Same with Chelsea fans, most on here seem like sound people, does not change the fact their club is what is because of a russian oligarch.

The average casual fan just doesn't care about any of this.
Some genuinely don't care about anything other than their club being successful. I was arguing that with a self centered Chelsea fan earlier (won't let me tag him). He basically said he saw no issue with the Glazers and that United fans are only moaning cause they haven't won the league. Also said he thought the state of English football was fine and wasn't interested in the amount of clubs like Bury who have ceased to exist in recent times as it didn't impact on Chelsea.
 

TheReligion

Abusive
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
30,661
Location
Manchester
Isn't it odd, the timing of these tweets always seem to come out when they have an important game.
I don't know who this Tariq chap supports but he seems to have something against Manchester City that's for sure.
Hasn't all what he has put on twitter been done to death already?
Is it Liverpool or City you support?
 

Fluctuation0161

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
4,426
Location
Manchester
Because they need an excuse to justify supporting a team with the owners they have. Same with Chelsea fans, most on here seem like sound people, does not change the fact their club is what is because of a russian oligarch.

The average casual fan just doesn't care about any of this.
True.
 

SER19

Full Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,418
Strange couple of posts from them. It's absolutely ridiculous the likes of Souness can go on sky and champion ambramovic and the mansour family. Hell even Neville has for the work done in the area. Yeah it is wonderful, but it is a blatant sportswashing exercise. You get the sense they realise that but are not willing to acknowledge it publicly. We have the rainbow campaign here in football and also a team with owners who have an appalling humans rights record. Are we just meant to compartmentalise the bad and take the good whenever we feel like.

It is quickly becoming a situation where everyone involved in football is looking increasingly guilty because of the types of owners we have allowed in to the game. Not to mention the effect it is having on the game itself.
The polarisation between fans makes the conversation nigh on impossible. If you're a United fan you just get called bitter or at best get the sort of shallow comparison above. At risk of irrelevance to football Forum, the oppression and repression in these states is absolutely disgusting and to ignore it or try to draw some nonsense equivalence with British life for the sake of a football team is spineless and embarrassing.

Its not city fans fault en masse and its not easy to suddenly resist supporting your team in an already murky sport, but the mental gymnastics defending it and actually celebrating their owners is grotesque. But guardiola will wear his hoody tonight about migrants and make it all ok.

Tonight two abhorrent states are competing for a place in the biggest game in club football and they want it far far more than any of their fans, but for very very different reasons
 

Drawfull

Full Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
3,310
Location
Just close your eyes, forget your name
Isn't it odd, the timing of these tweets always seem to come out when they have an important game.
I don't know who this Tariq chap supports but he seems to have something against Manchester City that's for sure.
Hasn't all what he has put on twitter been done to death already?
Room, meet @b20times
b20times, meet Reading 101

We have to take our pleasure where it's on offer these days.
 

Beachryan

More helpful with spreadsheets than Phurry
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
9,421
Would be interesting to see how this gets covered. The CAS ruling - which as a reminder wasn't 'City didn't cheat' it was 'City cheated but it doesn't matter cause it was more than 5 years ago' - was widely heralded very Trump-like as 'see they did nothing wrong and were aquittted'.

Personally I find it all irrelevant. Did City doctor their books for some reason? Almost definitely. Does it matter one bit? No.

The Premier League and football long ago accepted that distorting the league with loss-making cash injections is totally fine, as long as they get their slice.