Manchester City banned from CL for 2 seasons and fined 30 million euros | CAS - Ban lifted, fined 10 million

Sandikan

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How I imagine City's defence went

Feeling irritated at City getting away with it, I had a little read abut the above in South Park, then the whole OJ case.
Still the biggest miscarriage of justice ever...slightly above this City joke call.
 

Frasbul

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Feeling irritated at City getting away with it, I had a little read abut the above in South Park, then the whole OJ case.
Still the biggest miscarriage of justice ever...slightly above this City joke call.
Trust me – I am writing my doctoral thesis on the Simpson trials – it was not the biggest miscarriage of justice ever. Did he do it? Yes. Was it the right decision to acquit him? Also yes. The prosecution couldn't prove he did it beyond a reasonable doubt.
 

sewey89

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There is not a fecking chance that CAS have informed city 3 days before it’ll be publicly announced. Cheeseman May or may not be right, but they’ve not been informed by CAS yet
 

M113FF

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He can be as well connected as he'd like, there's no one in CAS that's leaking rulings ahead of time. These people that sits in arbitration are highly accomplished lawyers and professors of law that do not speak to the press. They are what you might call heavyweights in their profession and live and die by their reputation as incorruptable. The clubs lawyers and personell sure might "Feel" as if they have made a good case and expect a win, but the CAS arbitrators do not give verdicts to people ahead of time. They know when we know.

Manchester City already took this case to CAS in 2019 prematurely, trying to have the investigation stopped by the UEFA over the allegations of leaks. The CAS summarily dismissed the appeal and threw them back to the Adjudicatory Chamber of UEFA, who in turn rendered a verdict finding MCFC guilty in breach of FFP and summarily banned from competition.

In essence, MCFC tried to have the investigation stopped before they could render a verdict. Fortunately, CAS is not a go to appealate court, they are the highest judicial court fo sports, the final hurdle, not the first.

In fact, this took a bit of a ugly turn when MCFC outright accused the UFA invetigators of leaking to the press. This is an email that the chief investigator of UEFA CFCB sent to MCFC regariding an email sent to them:

“I must vehemently reject your allegations of unlawful activities, either by
myself or by any of the members of the UEFA CFCB, in particular of its
Investigatory Chamber (IC).

Your allegations are groundless in the merits and unacceptable in tone.

Please be advised that I will not continue such an exchange of
correspondence and that I will not respond further to groundless
accusations directed against me personally and/or against my fellow

members of the IC.

I can assure you that at no time, myself or any of my fellow members of the
IC have violated any rights of your club. As you are well aware, all
procedural rights of your club have been respected and all requests, insofar
as justified and relevant, have been granted. The proceedings before the IC
were conducted in good faith and in an independent, objective and fair
manner, as you know well.

Moreover, I confirm that there is no intention to publish the [Referral
Decision] in whole or in part. I refer to Article 14 of the [CFCB Procedural
Rules] which does not foresee the publication of a decision of the
[Investigatory Chamber] to refer the case to the [Adjudicatory Chamber].

I also note that you continue to comment on issues that fall within the scope
of the Referral Decision, which was rendered by the IC on 15 May 2019.
You will be aware that these matters are now before the [Adjudicatory
Chamber]. Your club will have all rights to defend itself before that
chamber, in accordance with the applicable UEFA rules and I am not in a
position to comment on such matters further.

For all issues that do not fall within the scope of the Referral Decision, and
as far as these issues remain pending before the IC, I can again assure you
that your club will be granted all the rights to defend its position. Insofar
as this will be necessary and requested, you club will again be heard
accordingly by the IC, in compliance with the applicable UEFA rules.
Your club will be informed, in due course and in line with the applicable
rules, of any further procedural steps that may be taken in this respect.”

.
This Guardian article explains the proceeding in a nice easy summary: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-fury-ffp-case-leaks-court-documents-uefa-cas
Well, the response to that from CAS was:


G. The Alleged Leaks and the Potential Impact Thereof on the Impartiality of the Members of the Investigatory Chamber 113. The alleged leaking of information by members of the Investigatory Chamber or the UEFA administration about the proceedings against MCFC is worrisome. Again, the Panel is mindful not to trespass into the authority of the Adjudicatory Chamber to address MCFC’s procedural complaints in detail. However, it must be noted that MCFC’s complaints as to the leaks do not, on a prima facie basis, appear to be entirely without merit, particularly concerning the First and Second Leak, […], and the Fifth Leak, which refers to an “insider” at UEFA as the source. 114. It puzzles the Panel how the CFCB Chief Investigator could be so confident to “vehemently reject [MCFC’s] allegations of unlawful activities, either by myself or by any of the members of the UEFA CFCB, in particular of its Investigatory Chamber (IC)”, and to state that MCFC’s allegations regarding the leaks were “groundless in the merits” and to “assure [MCFC] that at no time, myself or any of my fellow members of the IC have violated any rights of your club”. 115. However, as already set out supra, the Panel finds that the general rule that internal
 

Sandikan

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Trust me – I am writing my doctoral thesis on the Simpson trials – it was not the biggest miscarriage of justice ever. Did he do it? Yes. Was it the right decision to acquit him? Also yes. The prosecution couldn't prove he did it beyond a reasonable doubt.
If someone has done it, and they've not been found guilty of it, I'd say that's a pretty darn big miscarriage of justice.
 

sewey89

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There is not a fecking chance that CAS have informed city 3 days before it’ll be publicly announced. Cheeseman May or may not be right, but they’ve not been informed by CAS yet
Also, if this news was being leaked out, there’s be reputable journos all over it by now
 

Sandikan

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There is not a fecking chance that CAS have informed city 3 days before it’ll be publicly announced. Cheeseman May or may not be right, but they’ve not been informed by CAS yet
So how have they found out? Guessed?
 

Djemba-Djemba

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Also, if this news was being leaked out, there’s be reputable journos all over it by now
You trying to say Trevor Sinclair, a man who racially abused a taxi driver after pissing himself in the back of the taxi, isn't a respectable source of info?
 

chrysolite

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There's no way City are going to get away with it imo. It sets a dangerous precedence that might make FFP Irrelevant, but them getting away with it is certainly not beyond the realms of possibility. Fingers crossed
 

Djemba-Djemba

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So how have they found out? Guessed?
Who says they've found out?

I'll repeat, go back to before the original decision in December or whenever it was and you'll see City were incredibly confident then that all charges would be dropped.

Sam Lee at The Athletic was certain City would be deemed innocent.
 

Pow

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Im hearing loads of noise theyve gotten away with it scott free ? Surely not ?
 

RkkMan

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Who says they've found out?

I'll repeat, go back to before the original decision and you'll see City were incredibly confident then that all charges would be dropped.

Sam Lee at The Athletic was certain City would be deemed innocent.
They had similar confidence back in December no ban would be imposed as well.
 

adexkola

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If someone has done it, and they've not been found guilty of it, I'd say that's a pretty darn big miscarriage of justice.
You're taking that as fact. The legal system can't do that, it is supposed to prove it. It would be a miscarriage of justice if the legal system couldn't prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, yet the plaintiff was imprisoned because "he did it".
 

Irrational.

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If City get away with this, UEFA and FFP will crumble and be seen to have no backbone. It is in UEFA's best interest for the full extent of the punishment to be upheld, otherwise they will be seen as a complete laughing stock.
 

Sandikan

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You're taking that as fact. The legal system can't do that, it is supposed to prove it. It would be a miscarriage of justice if the legal system couldn't prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, yet the plaintiff was imprisoned because "he did it".
It depends how you're defining words.

Justice is the principle that someone gets what they deserved. A murderer not getting punishment is thus not justice being served.

However, I can see what you and the other chap are getting at, so let's leave it there. Let's not rake over an infuriating case :)
 

Le Red

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Trust me – I am writing my doctoral thesis on the Simpson trials – it was not the biggest miscarriage of justice ever. Did he do it? Yes. Was it the right decision to acquit him? Also yes. The prosecution couldn't prove he did it beyond a reasonable doubt.
That's your opinion. Several people in the legal community disagree he should be acquited,for reasons I won't dwell in here.
By all means defend your opinion with arguments, but don't tell people to trust your opinion over an argument of pseudoauthority, in this case, your thesis.
 

cyberman

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If City get away with this, UEFA and FFP will crumble and be seen to have no backbone. It is in UEFA's best interest for the full extent of the punishment to be upheld, otherwise they will be seen as a complete laughing stock.
I think theyll restructure the entire CL so they have more control over it. Tighten everything up.
This could kill CL as we know it.
 

Sandikan

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I think theyll restructure the entire CL so they have more control over it. Tighten everything up.
This could kill CL as we know it.
How would they do that though?
They've already squeezed out the little guys by gifting the top 4 in the top 4 leagues entry.

What could they do to stop City and PSG moneywashing their competition, when it seems like even a ban doesn't wash?
 

theklr

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If City get away with this, UEFA and FFP will crumble and be seen to have no backbone. It is in UEFA's best interest for the full extent of the punishment to be upheld, otherwise they will be seen as a complete laughing stock.
this case is all about if City lied to Uefa when they were investigating said FFP. It isnt about breaching FFP per se. They already had punishment for that
 

cyberman

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How would they do that though?
They've already squeezed out the little guys by gifting the top 4 in the top 4 leagues entry.

What could they do to stop City and PSG moneywashing their competition, when it seems like even a ban doesn't wash?
Im not sure but it just seems likely imo. You cant have an invitational become too big for the governing body to police.
Maybe have the final stages be classed as a different competition? Have the last 8 be 8 winners of CL.
Congrats. 8 winners. In an unrelated note, UEFA will hold an elite CL with 8 participents independent from that competition..who happens to be that 8 every year.
But you must follow stringent rules to qualify..just to make it clear its an invitational.
I just made up a load of nonsense but it could be something just as radical or else the shackles are off and City will spend 200m on each player and kill the conpetition.
 

Sandikan

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Im not sure but it just seems likely imo. You cant have an invitational become too big for the governing body to police.
Maybe have the final stages be classed as a different competition? Have the last 8 be 8 winners of CL.
Congrats. 8 winners. In an unrelated note, UEFA will hold an elite CL with 8 participents independent from that competition..who happens to be that 8 every year.
But you must follow stringent rules to qualify..just to make it clear its an invitational.
I just made up a load of nonsense but it could be something just as radical or else the shackles are off and City will spend 200m on each player and kill the conpetition.
In fairness, City and PSG haven't won it between them, or threatened to, irrespective of throwing money around.
 

BobbyManc

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In fairness, City and PSG haven't won it between them, or threatened to, irrespective of throwing money around.
In fairness, UEFA also colluded with PSG to let them evade FFP and now their chairman sits on the executive committee - which he was invited on to in the middle of an investigation into PSG. But it’s funny reading the posts about how all of a sudden the integrity of FFP will be thrown into doubt.
 

ZolaWasMagic

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Cheeseman may turn out to be right come Monday, but for the avoidance of any doubt, he DOES NOT know anything, and CAS have NOT leaked a thing. Man City also, DO NOT have a clue what the outcome is. Its quite simple, really

If he turns out to be right, it was a total guess/prediction which came up trumps. Another journo, although a bit meh, Miguel Delaney is of the opinion itll be upheld, but theyre only hunches. They do not know a thing.
 

RedDevil@84

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There is not a fecking chance that CAS have informed city 3 days before it’ll be publicly announced. Cheeseman May or may not be right, but they’ve not been informed by CAS yet
Pep did say today that he is pretty positive that it is going to be overturned.
 

JPRouve

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I'm torn between my dislike for FFP and my dislike for the cheaters.
 

Adam-Utd

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Pep did say today that he is pretty positive that it is going to be overturned.
He said the evidence he’s seen is strong in his opinion. So either they’ve successfully argued that the evidence was found illegally or their lawyers are trying to make it sound like everything is rosey.

anyway not long to wait now, at least we will have extra motivation come Monday if needs be!
 

Judas

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FFP officially dead in the water if City have been able to literally make a mockery of the entire thing and get away with it. Depressing but not surprising.
 

Adisa

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“we’re guilty but you didn’t catch us honestly” how ridiculous is that :lol:

feck them we all knew they were corrupt from the first minute anyway. We will just have to do it the proper way
It is ridiculous but it is a legitimate defence.
 

Red00012

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This place if cheeseman is wrong Monday morning :lol:

I’m not overly bothered by the outcome Monday, I think if we finish 5th I’ll be disappointed regardless of CAS decision.