Strange post. Second thread you're polluting with wank arguments.
I think Simeone is the best right now given his record over the last 5 years but to think Pep's claim to that throne deserves bewilderment reeks of bias.
Manchester City under Pep Guardiola | Pep on City v Liverpool ref: "He likes to be special"
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I think Simeone is the best right now given his record over the last 5 years but to think Pep's claim to that throne deserves bewilderment reeks of bias.
I doubt he had the time to prepare in detail for 'a windy Tuesday night at Stoke' type scenario's. Likewise, in reality, there is nothing like first hand experience.
Its not impossible to win the PL in your first season, as JM proved when he arrived at Chelsea, but he only had to beat SAF who has transitory team and was distracted by horses. This years PL will be the most completive ever, and those few points won at 'Stoke' will win the title.
For me, Mourinho and United have to be the favourites to win the title next season.
People say Jose has a lot of rebuilding to do, but so has City. Most of their players are aging or not "Pep players".. will Pep keep the likes of Kolarov, Clichy, Nasri, Navas, Sterling, Delph, Fernando, Bony and the list goes on. Highly unlikely in my opinion. And then you have the likes of Toure (who Pep sold before), Silva and Kompany (outstanding player for them, but lets face it, riddled with injuries)
The only definites I can see in Pep's squad are De Bruyne and Aguero. Whereas United have plenty of youngsters with bright futures ahead of them like Rashford, Martial, Shaw, Depay and more. Add Ibra, Schneiderlin, De Gea and Smalling to that and I'm sure we'll have a top season under Jose. I fancy us to finish above City for sure.
People say Jose has a lot of rebuilding to do, but so has City. Most of their players are aging or not "Pep players".. will Pep keep the likes of Kolarov, Clichy, Nasri, Navas, Sterling, Delph, Fernando, Bony and the list goes on. Highly unlikely in my opinion. And then you have the likes of Toure (who Pep sold before), Silva and Kompany (outstanding player for them, but lets face it, riddled with injuries)
The only definites I can see in Pep's squad are De Bruyne and Aguero. Whereas United have plenty of youngsters with bright futures ahead of them like Rashford, Martial, Shaw, Depay and more. Add Ibra, Schneiderlin, De Gea and Smalling to that and I'm sure we'll have a top season under Jose. I fancy us to finish above City for sure.
Who ever wins the league next season will not win it easy. I can see it being a hotly contested season.
City have way more rebuilding to do than us.
Txiki has bought a hoard of absolute shite over the past 5 years, well, since he got the job in actuality. They can't get rid of them. No one wants to buy them. No one wants to loan them because of their wages.
Also down to only two world class players thanks to the injuries/decline of Hart, Kompany, Yaya and Silva. They don't have a strong spine anymore. Can probably count on Aguero to carry on his trend of missing at least 1 in 3 matches next season as well.
Txiki has bought a hoard of absolute shite over the past 5 years, well, since he got the job in actuality. They can't get rid of them. No one wants to buy them. No one wants to loan them because of their wages.
Also down to only two world class players thanks to the injuries/decline of Hart, Kompany, Yaya and Silva. They don't have a strong spine anymore. Can probably count on Aguero to carry on his trend of missing at least 1 in 3 matches next season as well.
Yeah, you're probably right. I was just in the mood for trolling when I wrote that
I do however think City are decent value at 3.5 for the title.
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That comment annoyed me haha. City with an aging squad, a manager who's never managed here, and potentially loads of new signings who needs to bed in will be in transition this season.Yeah, you're probably right. I was just in the mood for trolling when I wrote that
He still won those trophies.
If Ancelotti fails in German league then yeah you can have a go at his league record. When he was at Milan, Serie A was competitive.
His time in England he finished 1st and 2nd.
First full season at PSG he won the league which was a given.
His spell in La Liga coincided with the rise of Atletico, which Pep didn't have to contend with. But he won the champions league in his first season. Second season wasn't great, but I doubt any manager including Pep would have stopped that Barca trio winning the league.
I am just praying the Pep's success at Barca was due to Messi, etc, like Brenton with Suarez, and his success at Bayern was due to being in a one-horse race.
They all look competitive until they start.
Last season all of City, United, Arsenal and Chelsea thought that they had a great chance in the PL but all cocked it up. Liverpool thought a CL place at least was attainable under Rogers but all had to bow to the consistency of Leicester and Chelsea.
This season will see new coaches, new players, and new mindsets. Indeed a debut season win is do-able. Mourinho and Pellegrini are examples of that and while the likes of Pep and Conte have to adjust to the PL the reverse is also true.
Will be an interesting season.
Ok.
And let's not get into wanking, polluting and reeking.
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Did he? He didn't take the job then because he wants to work under a stable environment? Or with the management team that were behind him during his most successful period as a manager? And all the other top teams are in transition? But City aren't? And the best bit, Pep Guardiola, easily one of the best managers in the game, doesn't realise the job he has on his hands at City, doesn't recognise the work that needs doing, the rebuilding that clearly City need.
And of course he can't handle the pressure. Unlike Mou, who took Chelsea to 8th after winning the league.
I agree Simone has to be considered THE best manager right now for what he's achieved with Atleti. Personally I'm not a fan of his style of football and for me Ancelloti and Pep are the best of the attacking minded managers, closely followed by Klopp and Pochettino.
Not sure about you definitely finishing above us but you're spot on with the amount of work Pep has on his hands. For me the only guaranteed starters are Gundogan, Ferds, De Bruyne, Silva and Aguero. As you've pointed out, the rest are either too injury prone or not Pep players. I actually think he will turn around Sterling mind.
Pep couldn't handle Mourinho towards the end of his reign in Spain and cracked under the pressure over there. Genuinley caved in and had to take a year off to recharge.
Plus Bayern is as stable of a club as you can get.
Pep gives his all, read player's accounts and coaches he's worked with. They all say it. He lives and breathes football and by all accounts is pretty obsessive and a workaholic. I think Pep can handle the pressure just fine. I can't see him cracking at City, who probably have one of the most stable working environments in the prem. Equally if he can handle the media in Spain he can handle it here.
Revisionism, proof is in the trophy case
Pep leaving had more to do with the board and what he perceives as an appropriate cycle as a coach
If i quit after being emotionally broken I would make up rules for my coaching cycle after the fact as well.
Nobody said he wasn't successful at Barca btw. As soon as Mourinho molded his team to become successful Pep turned tail and ran.
Amazingly able to mention every top manager except Mourinho in that post.
There shouldn't be. Bayern chiefs say he took the team to another level and all the players admit that they improved under him. Each year you face different challenges so using Heynckes season as the only barometer is a bit weak. Those associated with the club can see he took them up a gear, but the outsiders solely rely on "treble or bust". Peps Barcelona were the best team I have seen despite Luis Henrique having Suarez and Neymar. They looked unbeatable. Plus no one has won as many trophies as Pep over the last 7 seasons and noone has won 2 CL in 3 seasons, irrespective of who they managed. Luis Enrique and Zidane haven't nearly matched Peps achievements in the game
He was referring to managers that are perceived to be attacking minded though. I don't think he was doubting Mourinho's managerial qualities but he isn't renowned as being an attack-minded manager regardless of how successful he's been. I do think he isn't quite as defensive as some people would have us believe though and he did have that season at Real where they scored a huge number of goals.
I misread it. My apologies @Cityfaninpeace .
I think Mou is a top manager. Is that what you're looking for?
Just seen this! Ha, apology accepted.
Trophy case, wins, playing style, legacy - no contest
Revisionism as I already mentioned. 16 encounters between the two - 7 wins for Pep, 3 for Mou (2 heavily influenced by match referee)
A Barcelona fan complaining about the referees. Now I've seen everything.
Don't be so delusional
was this the successful team Mourinho molded that following Pep's departure lost out to Vilanova's Barca by 15 points, lost to rivals Atletico Madrid in the cup final and were taken out of the CL by Dortmund, following a 4-1 defeat in Germany? Your attempt to present a narrative of Guardiola running scared of Mourinho has no grounding in reality, and the head to head record between the two evidences that.That Madrid side who broke every record Barca had under Pep?Don't be so delusional
That Madrid side?
The fact Barca came back so well, dealing with Titos illness etc should be held against Pep, not a tool to beat Jose with.
Are we going to pretend that Pep left on his own terms now?
First time Madrid gets the best of Pep and Barca needed a bit of spark and Pep leaves. That's a fact here.
Roy Hodgson would probably do well enough with the Barcelona side Pep had. Not saying Pep isn't a great manager, but lets contextualise his Barcelona reign by seeing what was at his disposal. The Bayern side he inherited and transformed is a lesser team to what it was under Jupp Heynckes - in style and tactics.
Well, if Riijkard and Enrique did, then why not?
It isn't as bad as you are making it seem. I do think Pep is maybe better than Mourinho but they only went head to head in Spain for 2 seasons: Pep won 1 league title, 1 Copa del Rey and 1 Champions League; Jose won 1 league amd 1 Copa del Rey.
Jose and Pep have faced off in the league for 2 seasons and are currently tied one each. Pep did win that CL and it must be mentioned that he beat Jose's Real Madrid in the semi-final on his way to the title but again Jose beat Pep with Inter so on CL head-to-head, they've played each other twice and each has come out on top in one tie.
Pep (I think) broke the record for biggest points total in a 38 game league in Europe's top 5 leagues with 99 points. Mourinho came back next season and broke it and got a 100. And just to spice up the narrative further, Antonio Conte (soon of Chelsea) and Juventus broke that record and got 102 a season after. United may be getting Zlatan next season and Zlatan has won the league every year since 2004 except one season where he lost it to (wait for it) Antonio Conte's Juventus. Arsene Wenger broke Nottingham Forest and Brian Clough's record of 42 league games unbeaten and went 49 games unbeaten. That record recently got broken by Pep (soon of Manchester City) and Bayern. Wenger also famously went an entire league season unbeaten, a feat matched by... Antonio Conte and Juventus. Pep's Barcelona side broke the La Liga scoring record, only to have that record broken by Jose Mourinho (obviously soon of Manchester United) and Real Madrid. Plus-bonus trivia-in Pep Guardiola's three years at Barcelona (perhaps the finest club side of all time) the manager and team who took the most points off them was (get this) Mauricio Pochettino (of Tottenham Hotspur) and Espanyol.
I realise I've gone off on a bit of a tangent but point is, I can't wait for next season
From Mourinhos first game managing Madrid to Peps last Jose was closing the gap. When that gap was as close as it ever was Pep ran away. That's a fact.
I wouldn't complain about refs if I were you.
I think Guardiola will actually give him a chance or two before benching him, don't think he'll bench that much money easily.
First revisionism, now backtracking - pick one
Yes it's a fact, but you're attaching a motive to Pep's decision as if that's also a fact and you personally know the man. It's no different to me now saying Mourinho left Madrid because he was running scared of Vilanova's Barcelona. But I imagine you would dispute that as it does not suit the narrative you're trying to establish. Are we now going to pretend that Mourinho left on his own terms?
For your narrative to work Mourinho must be a failure as he had what he himself called the 'worst season' of his career (prior of course to his shambolic title defence with Chelsea that Moyes would have been proud of) after molding a supposedly unstoppable team that had Pep running scared, and Guardiola must also possess awful judgement and faith in his own ability and player's ability seen as Vilanova comfortably overcame any challenge from Mourinho's Madrid with the same side. Moreover, as I've already said, if we're accepting all this as true and attaching this motive to Pep's exit, then there is no reason it cannot be applied to Mourinho's exist a year later.
Backtracking where?
But go ahead and move the goalposts again. Serves you well buddy.
Jose and his side drove Pep away from Spain. He said himself he couldn't motivate his own players and had to take a year out to recharge.
Remember when that supposedly became part of his procedure? How he supposedly intends to take a year off between jobs?
About as made up as his 3 year cycle.
Mourinho lost his motivation when Pep left. That's the theory in Spain and I tend to believe it. That is a minus on Joses record but I wasn't discussing Jose's record. He has won them their one title in 8 years but that's irrelevant.
Pep himself said he could not motivate his players anymore and had to take a year out to recharge his batteries. How is that not broken? The Madrid machine broke him as they proceeded to break Peps records that he only set a year prior.
Jose had his side respond to Barca's record setting season yet Pep could not respond in kind. You don't have to be on first name terms with Pep himself to believe the man since he admitted this in interviews since.
Didn't take long for the Guardiola and how great he is or isn't arguments to start.
What is your fascination with having to know someone personally before being able to make observations about them.
Most of us here are not personal friends of SAF. We know though that he was an excellent motivator. We know this as he had inferior squads & transfer budgets to many of his rivals yet he still managed to rack up title after title.
Most people would agree that Pep likes to take the easy option. We don't know him but we know this is true. He managed a team featuring the worlds best player. He then moved to a team in a 1 team league. His next move is to go to a club with an unlimited transfer budget. Not exactly testing yoursel.