Manchester United are being left behind in youth development - Andy Mitten

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http://www.espnfc.com/club/manchest...nchester-united-youth-development-andy-mitten

Through peaks and troughs, Manchester United's youth system has long instilled pride in the club's fans.

United have long been able to buy some of football's finest talents, but they have also created some of its greatest, from The Busby Babes in the 1950s to George Best a decade later and the Class of '92, which featured the likes of David Beckham and Paul Scholes.

Four of United's top five all-time appearance makers -- Ryan Giggs, Scholes, Bill Foulkes and Gary Neville -- started and finished their football life at Old Trafford, while it has become a well-used, but worth repeating, statistic that the club have had a youth product in the match day squad for 3,740 consecutive games, dating back to the end of World War Two.

Fans still eagerly watch for exciting emerging players and access to games through improved media has made that easier, but the current youth system at the Cliff and Carrington training grounds gives cause for concern.

There are promising young professionals who'll make a good career in football but the dynamics have changed. The competition for talent has increased and United simply aren't as appealing to the best young players as they once were.

First team manager Louis van Gaal has no reason to say so publicly but he sees significant room for improvement in United's youth system and was underwhelmed by the success of the Under-21 team, who won their league last season.

Van Gaal wants to bring in new coaches and United hope to rediscover their appeal, but without structural change it's going to be tough, especially as the manager has said he's only going to be in charge for three seasons.

Earlier this year Brian McClair, who headed up United's academy system, chose to leave to be in charge of the national system in his native Scotland.

His replacement has not yet been appointed, but insiders say there are so many meetings to attend and so much paperwork to complete to meet the regulations of the elite player performance plan operated at top clubs, that it's a job for two or even three people.

Before he left, McClair said of United: "We're in pretty good shape and are continuing to look all the time. We are always in particular looking and hoping to discover a local lad who will make it all the way to the first team and if not still have a reasonably good career in football. Every year we are still looking for the very best kids within an hour's travelling distance from Manchester. Then at aged 16 we're looking at what we perceive to be the best players in the rest of UK and Europe."

In recent years three United players of past and present chose neighbours City as the club where they felt their children would best develop as players. The sons of Phil Neville, Robin van Persie and Darren Fletcher are all there and their parents have no regrets about the decisions, though Neville's son will soon switch to Valencia's academy.

Traditionally short of United's riches, City once relied on their youth academy. They won Youth Cups and promoted players into the first team, but the club was so unstable that they ended up moving on. Ryan Giggs was at City but left at 14. He went on to have a 23-year career in United's first team, something that would have been inconceivable had he stayed at City

After the club's 2008 takeover, though, City began to get serious about youth development. They invested in infrastructure and talent. They invested in people. Their record of promoting youth players to the first team in recent years is pitiful, but they're determined for that to change.

Their new, no expense spared, training ground is one of the best in the world. It's also in the heart of working class east Manchester, while United are not on a public transport network, tucked away amid the fields and electricity pylons to the west of the city. It was a conscious decision of both clubs to be where they are.


Manchester City's Etihad Campus is home to the club's youth development programme.
"This is just the start for City," explains a source familiar with both clubs. "There's not a huge difference in the quality of the players at both clubs at present, but that could change. City have two full time coaches for each age group. United's coaches are part-time. Some are good, some less so. The facilities at City's new training ground are superior. Their pitches are fully enclosed and they have floodlights."

At Carrington, where first David Moyes and now Van Gaal insisted that floodlights are installed on first team pitches, the youth players train on open and occasionally windswept fields. Meanwhile, whereas City's youth teams play in a proper 6,000 capacity stadium, United's take place before a temporary stand that seats 120.

It's City who now get most of the best players in Manchester, as was recently the case with an 11-year-old who switched from red to blue. He's already the best player in his age group and was happy at United. However, when his older brother was released by the Old Trafford club, his parents were unhappy and City stepped in to take both boys.

Andrew Cole's son Devante has long been at City and is already a professional. United's former chief executive David Gill used to joke that Devante should join the club. At the time it was light-hearted and said by someone in a position of strength, as United's youth system was one of the best in England. It's no longer a joke.

"United became complacent," explained a source. "They thought that players would come to United because it was United, with the history of the Busby Babes and the Class of '92 -- or even of getting the best Manchester players in recent years like Daniel Welbeck. The truth is that United have stood still while the rest have caught up and, in the case of City, have gone past United."

City can approach young players and offer them a better package. Players under-16 are not allowed agents, but their parents are, which enables them to be given financial inducements way beyond mileage allowances, boots and kit.

City's young players train together and are educated together at a very good private school. By contrast, a select few United players, usually those from outside Manchester, go to a non-fee paying school close to the training ground. United have discussed building a school and having young players live at Carrington, but so far it hasn't happened.

"Imagine you're a single mum in Moss Side (a working class neighbourhood close to City's old Maine Road home)," explains someone familiar with the recruitment process. "Both clubs come in for your son but City offer him a full private education in one of Manchester's best schools, to be continued even if your son is released, as most are. If he stays at United, he stays in the same school he's in. City also offer money, maybe as a one-off payment to a parent. United offer a travel allowance.

"Or, imagine you're a 17-year-old from outside England and both Manchester clubs want you," he continues. "You go to see both clubs and see that United have the history, then you go to City and see that they have better facilities, education and they'll also pay more."

As they get older, money talks. Three of United's best Under-18 players currently have better offers from elsewhere, including Liverpool and it would surprise nobody at the club if they left.

United have an old-fashioned approach in that they want players who want to play for the club but there are grumbles that they focus their resources too much on sports science while rivals are stealing players from under their nose.

Even Everton have a satellite scouting system in Stretford -- right in the shadow of Old Trafford. United have so no such operation in Liverpool.

"It's getting hard for the United scouts," explains an insider. "United still have a couple of exceptional players in most age groups, but it's getting much harder to sign them in the face of so much competition.

City also have a popular, high-profile figurehead in Patrick Vieira who oversees the youth setup and meet parents personally, just as Sir Alex Ferguson used to do.

Money hasn't always been the issue it has become. Ferguson would tell young players that if they were patient, they would get their rewards. He was right about some but, statistically, if a club gets one first team player from their youth ranks every season then they're doing well. Ferguson was happy for reserve players on £1,000-a-week to be around, but was that right for the players?

Players often got pay rises by moving, even to third tier clubs, but that was after it became clear they weren't going to make it at United. Many regret staying too long as they held out on to a dream of making it and think that their development stalled through a lack of genuine experience.


Giuseppe Rossi, left, and Gerard Pique, right, both left Manchester United in search of first team football.
Contd.
 

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United's youth system has become muddled, too. It long irked English players that imports such as Giuseppe Rossi, Gerard Pique and Paul Pogba were on far bigger contracts to them, but even Pogba's wages were a fraction of what he was being offered elsewhere.

Ferguson told Pogba to be patient. He was but still didn't get his chance and has since gone on to become the best young midfielder of his generation and linked with an £80 million transfer this summer.

United got it wrong and it's easy to say that viewed in hindsight, but money played a part in Pogba leaving. There was not enough of it, despite him being offered the most lucrative reserve contract -- worth £20,000 a week -- in club history.

Rossi, Pique and Pogba were all top talents who feel that they weren't given the opportunities they deserved. That can be argued, but a big attraction in them leaving was that they were offered first team football, a chance they all took with Barcelona, Villarreal and Juventus respectively.

Some United fans are obsessed by transfer targets and would wish for their team to be filled with a world XI of stellar franchise players, but ask people inside Old Trafford and they like to see players -- especially local ones -- promoted from the youth ranks.

Will that happen given the lack of current standout emerging talents? Van Gaal used Tyler Blackett, Paddy McNair and James Wilson among the 15 Carrington graduates who played first team football last season -- far more than any Premier League club -- though injuries were the reason for some of those appearances and several were for just a few minutes.

Be it by not spending like other clubs -- Arsenal recently paid Ipswich £100,000 for a 14-year-old -- or by losing out to City, United are not getting the best youth players as they once did. Meanwhile, one City coach who is actually a United fan was interested in a job at Carrington, until he saw the wages on offer.

City are not naïve and know they're not going to produce first team stars, but they currently have three outstanding players in their entire system who they think have a fair chance of making it. The rest will hopefully be sold for a profit -- an area in which United had traditionally excelled -- although City's coaches do worry how departing players will cope with facilities less spectacular than that which they are used to.


Manchester United manager Louis van Gaal is keen for a revamp at youth team level.
United have other problems. Where once they scanned England and Ireland for talents, now football has become globalised. The reserve system in England, with too few games, doesn't help. Players at a similar level in Spain play second or third division football in front of crowds of thousands and against experienced professionals fighting for their win bonus.

Everyone wants to beat the young players of Barcelona or Madrid. They deal with the media, they get abuse off fans. It's real. In England, the infrequent matches are played in front of a few hundred. They feature 20-year-olds who've largely not been good enough to be loaned out elsewhere. Chelsea have more young players out on loan around Europe than they have at Stamford Bridge.

As Tony Park, a seasoned United youth watcher and the joint author of "Sons of United", wrote of last season: "At the halfway point, the U21s had played 11 competitive games, the U18s totalled 13. In that period the U21s had used a total of 31 different players while the U18s had used 24 different players. How can a player develop if he doesn't play?"

It was baffling that United recently pulled out of the benchmark Milk Cup tournament, where many of their former youth teams had played. Aside from everything else, United have huge support, who love to watch the emerging players, in Northern Ireland. Such was the outcry, United are expected to return.

Van Gaal knows better than anyone how to promote young players and get them winning. There's no greater example than his European Cup winners at Ajax 20 years ago. He can add sorting United's youth system to his long list of jobs as he returns to his desk at Carrington.
Doesn't make for a very happy reading. There's something about producing a superstar that has risen from the academy that can never be topped even with a big money star signing.

Van Gaal is one of the best guys around when it comes to young players so I hope we're squeezing the last drop of his expertise to set things right. The reported gulf between the youth infrastructure of ours and City's is quite staggering.
 
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NinjaZombie

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That part about Pogba is dead right, in my opinion. I'll admit I was one of the many who defended Fergie for not playing him (although privately in my mind, I'd have liked to see Pogba playing in midfield instead of Park or Rafael) but really, if a player like him couldn't get in a team missing all their centre midfielders, what chance did any of the other reserves had?

I really hope Van Gaal can win the league next season. Get that done and over with, maybe sign an extension, and start working on our youth system. It might not happen, but I really do hope it will.
 

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It's things like this why you feel that the club desperately needs a DoF. We may not like that kind of system, but it's what's happening in the football world and were risking losing more ground.
 

Flying_Heckfish

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We just need to throw a bit of our cash that way and we can be back to the top. We still have a recent track record and expertise here, it has just been placed in sharp relief because City are throwing their cash all over town.

It just isn't in our plans at the moment, rightly or wrongly (wrongly). A bit like the women's team.
 

Brightonian

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I'll start to worry when we stop producing such talented prospects and the much-lauded academy of City starts to produce... literally anything.

Pogba is proof of the success of our youth development, not its failure. It's not the academy's fault that we couldn't keep hold of him, but they have a lot to do with the fact that he's now considered possibly the hottest young midfield prospect in world football.

What our youth development really needs is a firmer route into the first team. I was hoping to see a more radical move in that direction under Van Gaal, but it's yet to fully materialise. He's obviously happy for youngsters to fill in in positions where injuries leave us thin on the ground (Blackett and McNair, for example), but what I really want to see is the real talents - the likes of Januzaj, Wilson, Pereira, Pearson etc - getting a proper chance. We're never going to establish a tradition for promoting youngsters on the back of average gap-fillers like Blackett and McNair. But if Wilson, Januzaj and Pereira are all established in the first team in four years, it'll be so much easier for the next generation to get their chances.
 

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We just need to throw a bit of our cash that way and we can be back to the top. We still have a recent track record and expertise here, it has just been placed in sharp relief because City are throwing their cash all over town.

It just isn't in our plans at the moment, rightly or wrongly (wrongly). A bit like the women's team.
It doesnt look as easy as throwing a bit of cash at it.
 

11101

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We keep hearing about how wonderful City's academy is and how rubbish ours is, but the fact remains no-one is coming through City's academy into the first team. Two players in the last 10 years still play for them, let alone made it. Their youth teams came mid table in the U21 league and in the U18 league.

We played 15 academy graduates this season alone.
 

pseudo_canadian

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Not denying that. But it also take a lot of other work if the article is spot on. Coaches, recruitment system, infrastructure etc.
True, and I think van Gaal is probably the best manager to have if we want to improve in those areas. I wouldn't get entirely concerned yet.
 

MJJ

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We keep hearing about how wonderful City's academy is and how rubbish ours is, but the fact remains no-one is coming through City's academy into the first team. Two players in the last 10 years still play for them, let alone made it. Their youth teams came mid table in the U21 league and in the U18 league.

We played 15 academy graduates this season alone.
Its only been 7 years since they revamped their academy, would have been very surprised if it would have bore fruit so soon. Give it another five years and they should have loads of good youth coming through ala chelsea right now. Whether those players get a chance or not, is a different matter.
 

Timdbro

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It doesnt look as easy as throwing a bit of cash at it.
Isn't that basically what the article describes City doing? Paying for private schools, giving money to parents, building a proper stadium, paying full time wages to coaches..
 

Ish

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Yeah, yeah, all I read there is City throwing $$$ at everything.

But yeah, I guess it's time to catch up and throw some better investment that way as well.
 

united_99

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Would be interesting to hear the view from the likes of @jb8521 and if they have heard similar things.

It's true that so far there has been no danger of any City product coming through whatsoever and in order to take bringing through youth seriously you actually have to start giving some of them chances in the first team, which so far we haven't seen at all.
But what will happen in 5-10 years? I have never been to the Etihad or the new youth facilities but I have heard several times now that their facilities/stadium/youth structure, infrastructure, match day experience in almost every aspect is better than ours'.
Obviously this point goes beyond just youth development but to start improving the infrastructure at the base / youth level would be very welcome as far as I am concerned.
 

SkeppyRed

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Whilst City's owners have spent millions of their own money on youth infrastucture such as facilities and expertise amongst other things, ours have spent the clubs money on their debt and lined their own pockets in the process.

Its been obvious the acadamy needed investment for about the last 4 years at least. Clearly not a priority for some misguided reason.
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

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I was surprised at the bit about education. I'd assumed a club of United's size would be educating the youngsters as well, as City are doing. That's certainly a huge attraction to parents of youth footballers. Knowing that even if their son doesn't make it at the club, they will have great options at the end of it. It would be a sound investment if it means we continue to be a level above City.
 

Clas Sified

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To be fair, just from reading that article alone, if I was a wee lad, even as a United fan I'd rather sign for City. City have wisely decided to invest in that area, and it looks to be paying off.
 

Snow

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To be fair, just from reading that article alone, if I was a wee lad, even as a United fan I'd rather sign for City. City have wisely decided to invest in that area, and it looks to be paying off.
United are still beating them at that level.
 

11101

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Its only been 7 years since they revamped their academy, would have been very surprised if it would have bore fruit so soon. Give it another five years and they should have loads of good youth coming through ala chelsea right now. Whether those players get a chance or not, is a different matter.
Giggs came through our academy in 3 years. Different times granted, but in 7 years you would expect to see some progress. There has been absolutely nothing, if anything their academy production has gone backwards recently.
 

khoazany

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Would be interesting to hear the view from the likes of @jb8521 and if they have heard similar things.

It's true that so far there has been no danger of any City product coming through whatsoever and in order to take bringing through youth seriously you actually have to start giving some of them chances in the first team, which so far we haven't seen at all.
But what will happen in 5-10 years? I have never been to the Etihad or the new youth facilities but I have heard several times now that their facilities/stadium/youth structure, infrastructure, match day experience in almost every aspect is better than ours'.
Obviously this point goes beyond just youth development but to start improving the infrastructure at the base / youth level would be very welcome as far as I am concerned.
Go to the youth forum.There're already discussion about this.
 

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I said on here a while ago that we could do with having a B team in the Football League, if we want to develop a United way of playing, that allows a LB from the B team to drop into that role in the first, fully familiar with his role an responsibilities. I'm not a fan of sending players on loan, to be under or misused by clubs that don't have the player's interests at heart.

On the Pogba thing - If he hadn't started being so half - arsed in reserve games, he may have got his chance.
 

khoazany

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I said on here a while ago that we could do with having a B team in the Football League, if we want to develop a United way of playing, that allows a LB from the B team to drop into that role in the first, fully familiar with his role an responsibilities. I'm not a fan of sending players on loan, to be under or misused by clubs that don't have the player's interests at heart.

On the Pogba thing - If he hadn't started being so half - arsed in reserve games, he may have got his chance.
Every top club want to have a B team.The problem lies with FA and the Football League clubs.
 

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Modernising the club from the position of comfort we maintained under Ferguson will take time. Certainly a lot longer than the two seasons he's been gone. What City are doing won't have gone unnoticed, so I'm sure there are plans in place to combat their admittedly impressive outlay.

There isn't much nobility left in any of this, though, is there? Lump sums to parents to send their children to academies? That sort of thing has most likely gone on for a long time, sums appropriate given the era, but it's essentially bribery. Young people being the objects of that, while greedy parents spend their whack on brand new Audi's. Or maybe that's the cynic in me talking...
 

amolbhatia50k

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Been hearing about this for awhile. It's a shame if it's true. Chelsea of all clubs seem to have the best young players in England with City laying a lot of groundwork for the same.
 

finneh

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To be honest I'm getting closer and closer towards thinking we may as well close down our youth facilities, let other clubs do the ground work and then just sign players when they become good enough for our first team. I think a real cost benefit analysis needs to be undertaken as to how much we receive when selling our youngsters vs the cost of infrastructure, wages, improvements etc.

Football is at such an advanced level nowadays that we can't afford to give inferior young players the chance to develop whilst costing us points. Maybe the genius that was Fergie could win trophies whilst developing youngsters, but I can't think of any other club in England that's been successful using this model in the last 15-20 years. The last top class first team player that would have cost more than around £10m-15m to buy from another club that we've produced was Paul Scholes 20 years ago. Ferguson managed to find a really meaningful contribution from the likes of O'Shea, Brown, Fletcher etc but would any top class modern manager be able to do the same?

I suppose the question is: when you have £100m per season to spend on the best talent across the globe; that've already proven they can realise their great potential, is there any need to try (usually in vein) to produce one top class player every decade yourself? Let other clubs go through 3~ seasons of watching their potentially great player miss simple chances, get muscled out of possession, give the ball away needlessly and make basic concentration errors. Then once they've ironed out these developmental issues, swoop in with a hefty bid and benefit.

Naturally if our youth system pays for itself with a profit, then I see no harm. If that's the case it provides us supplementary income and any player we produce who makes a first team contribution is merely a bonus.
 

cyberman

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Pique and Pogba not enough? Welbeck is a starter for England.
Not getting a game because you're stuck behind world class talent or if the manager wants to ease you in is different than not producing the talent in the first place.
 

Bubz27

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Yeah let's wait for it to be a serious issue before we do anything about it.

Quite clearly there are already issues developing and a cause for concern. The time for action is now.

If we are going down the route of shorter term managers, and most anagers come under that umbrella nowadays, then we need consistency at the club beyond Ed Woodward. The Fergie way won't work now, we can't have one man overseeing everything. A DoF keeps consistency on those things as managers change.

Having a DoF isn't the issue. Who you have as a DoF can be the issue.
 

Kag

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The last section isn't surprising either. The biggest problem in English football is the development phase between 18 and 21. There is nowhere near enough competitive football matches. This still hasn't been tackled properly, meanwhile the FA continue to bang on about quotas and foreigners even though the real problem is staring them in the face.
 

MJJ

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Giggs came through our academy in 3 years. Different times granted, but in 7 years you would expect to see some progress. There has been absolutely nothing, if anything their academy production has gone backwards recently.
He signed for us at 14 though, was a once in generation talent anyway.

Look at it this way, SAF starting revamping the youth system in 86, it took six to seven years for the class of 92 to then step up( from a better starting position) and that too in a time when it was easier to blood youngsters. It takes time for these things.
 

jb8521

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Modernising the club from the position of comfort we maintained under Ferguson will take time. Certainly a lot longer than the two seasons he's been gone. What City are doing won't have gone unnoticed, so I'm sure there are plans in place to combat their admittedly impressive outlay.

There isn't much nobility left in any of this, though, is there? Lump sums to parents to send their children to academies? That sort of thing has most likely gone on for a long time, sums appropriate given the era, but it's essentially bribery. Young people being the objects of that, while greedy parents spend their whack on brand new Audi's. Or maybe that's the cynic in me talking...
City have offered some of our players as young as 9/10 parents 400 per week plus other incentives to move them to their academy which I find not just bizarre but morally wrong that in some cases a child is seen as the main earner in their family. This type of pressure and completely unbalanced world view surely can't be good for long term mental health and basic character development in children
 

Kag

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City have offered some of our players as young as 9/10 parents 400 per week plus other incentives to move them to their academy which I find not just bizarre but morally wrong that in some cases a child is seen as the main earner in their family. This type of pressure and completely unbalanced world view surely can't be good for long term mental health and basic character development in children
Completely agree with that. Youth development in sport already has problems with the blurred lines between a supportive parent and a pushy one, but this sort of practice opens the door to all kinds of pressure and manipulation. The article touched on parents hiring agents on behalf of their young children. That's mental.
 

cyberman

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Yeah let's wait for it to be a serious issue before we do anything about it.

Quite clearly there are already issues developing and a cause for concern. The time for action is now.

If we are going down the route of shorter term managers, and most anagers come under that umbrella nowadays, then we need consistency at the club beyond Ed Woodward. The Fergie way won't work now, we can't have one man overseeing everything. A DoF keeps consistency on those things as managers change.

Having a DoF isn't the issue. Who you have as a DoF can be the issue.
But to be one of the biggest clubs in the world, we need to have world class youngsters to break in.
That's the Bayern / Madrid future. Even Barca these days. Players like Fosu-Mensah look to have a bright future, but they're not just competing against their underage counterparts, they're competing against the youngsters United buy for the first team.
De Gea
Pique
Pogba
Ronaldo
Rooney
All played for us at a very young age. 4 can argue they're the best in the world in their position, Which other club can boast talent like that in the last decade? Times are changing at top sides in accordance to our academies, signing players at 18/19 should also be taken into account. We could develop Januaj but would he be as good as Depay when it's all said and done? I can tell you who has the best chance at the minute.
 

caid

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City have offered some of our players as young as 9/10 parents 400 per week plus other incentives to move them to their academy which I find not just bizarre but morally wrong that in some cases a child is seen as the main earner in their family. This type of pressure and completely unbalanced world view surely can't be good for long term mental health and basic character development in children

I can agree with that but the education and facilities they're offering cant be criticised really.
Its an area of the club that needs modernising, we don't have to go into bribing parents

Its a worrying article anyway
 

SkeppyRed

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Theres alot of similarities between what SAF did to our YS when he first came to United and what City have been doing since their Oil sheiks arrived.

- SAF found City had double the number of scouts to us in manchester. He reversed that.

- He employed Brian Kidd and Nobby Stiles, both legendary and influential figures in the local area, to aggresively pursue the best talents.

- He instructed the club to pay what was neccesary to make sure the players families where asssured the club could look after them better than anyone else.

- 9 years later we had something special.

Its gone full circle. City have more influence in local community again with more scouts than us and people like Viera influencing players families. They offer more money, better facilities and a higher standard of coaching.

Fergie took over in 86. CO92 established themselves in 95. City still need a brave skilled manager and lots of luck to do something similair but its better to have the possibility of talent then not to have it at all.
 
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