Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director

[Ali Dia]

We need someone who is a certified hawk at identifying talent form and potential relative to the demands of PL football and at a huge club that wants to be the best again. The scrutiny and level of self belief and professionalism that goes with that is obviously another issue. And just as important is spotting interesting gaps in the markets, contracts expiring on slightly older players to pad out the squad and add a sprinkle of guidance and then find the very top youth who could come in and play regular football here. The wage bill could drop by nearly half and we’d get the same return on the pitch so why not? We might finally even get a few top players peaking here at the same time again which is something we’ve never really achieved post Fergie.

Also last thing but having Nice and that Swiss club as a partnership is so much better than youth football for under 21s and for getting transfer targets to come here. All the big clubs are doing it now because It works. It’s the ultimate work around for Brexit and work permits too. Young players don’t want to sit in an academy for years and then get released without at least a fair crack at the senior game somewhere before they go. It also adds value to the player putting them in the shop window more than just an odd pre season game.

There are a few pluses with jimbo for sure but ultimately I think it’ll be a band aid on a bullet hole, simply because it makes the glazers richer and he was their hire. All their hires have been questionable and this will be more of the same most likely.They can’t get anything right and only care about themselves so why would this be any different? It just feels like more half measures and the slow endless grind to modernise the club on their watch

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Just to refresh my mind, Murtough doesn’t have any prior football director experience before United does he?

 

[croadyman]

The moment EtH demanded full control over transfers, or any type of control except making some recommendations, was the moment Murtough should have ended the interview and look somewhere else.

Yeah they shouldn't have accepted that but when your board is full of bankers not football people it's inevitable they lack strength

 

[Roboc7]

Not sure what the benefit is in sacking him.

Under his leadership, key scouts have been promoted, he has already introduced a data analytics team and we got rid of a significant load of deadwood. Too many people on the forums expect every signing to be perfect, every contract to be minimum wage and every youth player to be a success.

His role is not to determine which players to sign. His role is to ensure the various departments within the club work in tandem (and similar ideas) to ensure the best conditions to get results on the pitch. And granted we have been shite this season but you can quite legitimately look at the terrible injuries we've had and say that this hasn't helped.

Continuously firing people, in the hope that the next fad (like Mitchell) solves all the problems is not a solution either. The solution is to actually get all the departments working towards a common goal and, contrary to what the media writes, this does seem to be happening, albeit frustratingly slowly.

All the departments aren’t up to scratch and continually promoting from within when the club has been consistently failing was and still is a terrible idea. Firing people and looking to bring in new ideas and better qualified people is not a fad it’s what should have happened years ago.

 

[pascell]

Just to refresh my mind, Murtough doesn’t have any prior football director experience before United does he?

This is his resumé.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/john-murtough/profil/trainer/100862

 

[golden_blunder]

This is his resumé.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/john-murtough/profil/trainer/100862

I can see why they felt they could promote him

 

[devilish]

Not sure what the benefit is in sacking him.

Under his leadership, key scouts have been promoted, he has already introduced a data analytics team and we got rid of a significant load of deadwood. Too many people on the forums expect every signing to be perfect, every contract to be minimum wage and every youth player to be a success.

His role is not to determine which players to sign. His role is to ensure the various departments within the club work in tandem (and similar ideas) to ensure the best conditions to get results on the pitch. And granted we have been shite this season but you can quite legitimately look at the terrible injuries we've had and say that this hasn't helped.

Continuously firing people, in the hope that the next fad (like Mitchell) solves all the problems is not a solution either. The solution is to actually get all the departments working towards a common goal and, contrary to what the media writes, this does seem to be happening, albeit frustratingly slowly.

Yet we still buy from the manager's shopping list as we've always done. We still buy players in their 30s on silly money with no regard of their position (DM is hugely dependent on legwork so buying a 30 year old is stupid, surely Murtough's data analysts must have known that) and injury record (ex Varane). We still overpay in terms of salaries and fees. We still have waves upon waves of injuries, we still have leaks, we still have petulance (ex Sancho) and our squad is possibly the least fit squad in the EPL. Murtough was also involved in some of the silliest decisions made like for example bringing Rangnick and giving him near no support whatsoever (we even rescinded the offer we gave him so he would remain involved in the club) pursuing De Jong for the entire summer only to buy a 30 year old DM on silly money/salary whose completely different to him, spending 100m on Anthony and going to Barcelona and Turin only to come back with a packet of crisps. I wonder if data analysis would unearthed that as silly.

Regarding rebuilding well all we did was sacking managers. In terms of higher ups we replaced one CEO from PWC and Uni of Bristol with another CEO from PWC and Uni of Bristol and we kept hiring from within (Murtough, Fletcher etc) all of whom are still at the club.

Regarding Mitchell he's been around since 2010 when he became head of recruitment of MK Dons. So he's hardly the latest fad.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Mitchell as sporting director and Freedman as head of recruitment?

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[devilish]

Mitchell appointment makes sense. He's a Manchester lad who went up to the top from MK Dons to Southampton right to Spurs. Thus he had built contacts at every level in English football. He then went abroad were he worked with Rangnick in Germany. Finally he moved to Monaco. There's rumors out there that SJR wanted him at NICE only for Mitchell to turn him down as he wanted to return home. So we've got a Manchester lad who gained experience and had built contacts both in England and in two of the most exciting leagues in the world. He wants to settle in Manchester and he knows the culture and the expectations very well. On top of that his former mentor Rangnick is just a phone away. The German can provide him with quite some good information of what's wrong at the club

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

Mitchell as sporting director and Freedman as head of recruitment?

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It doesn't make sense to me because why either of them will accept this ?

Why Freedman will take a job of head of recruitment when he's a DOF ? Why Mitchell would want him and not bring his own people ?

 

[stefan92]

It doesn't make sense to me because why either of them will accept this ?

Why Freedman will take a job of head of recruitment when he's a DOF ? Why Mitchell would want him and not bring his own people ?

All these role definitions are quite fluid, it's not like "Director of Football" is a specific job description that is the same for every club.

So why would Freedman accept? Probably more money, also he might prefer focusing on this aspect of the job.

And why would Mitchell want him? Probably because he is quite good at this job.

And it makes sense NOT working together with all the same people all the time, you need a bit of a mix over time to get new impulses and prevent building an echo chamber that misses developments in the rest of the football work. That does apply to any career that has some creative/development aspect.

 

[devilish]

It doesn't make sense to me because why either of them will accept this ?

Why Freedman will take a job of head of recruitment when he's a DOF ? Why Mitchell would want him and not bring his own people ?

Mitchell had one stint as sporting director and that was 1 year at Monaco. Prior to that he was head of recruitment in most jobs (Mk dons, Saints, Spurs, Leipzig) and technical director at Red bull. The sporting director role is more senior then Head of Recruitment and Technical director. Thus Mitchell probably have no 'own people' in that role to start with. His experience in football is great but not as a sporting director. Thus it makes sense to hire a person under him whose more experience in the job then the average guy. Freedman has been Sporting Director at Palace for 5 years. Its his first role in it which makes him not exactly a seasoned Sporting director but he's certainly more then experienced to be Mitchell's no 2 in all but name. On top of that he's SAF' s former neighbor which means that the two probably have good relations. Maldini is also mentioned whose the Cadillac of Technical directors having done an exceptional job at AC Milan. It seems that INEOS want to bring a stellar team all of whom with experience in buying and developing gems

Manchester United are massive. SAF had no 2s who could have easily been no 1s (Mclaren, Smith and Queroz), the latter covered roles at Real and Portugal. So this would not be the first step down in United's history.

 

[TrebleChamp99]

Mitchell has been after a role above DOF for some time, it wouldnt shock me if he was a sporting director and Friedman was a more traditional DOF or head of first team recruitment - basically what darren fletcher is supposed to be doing.

 

[TrebleChamp99]

Mitchell had one stint as sporting director and that was 1 year at Monaco. Prior to that he was head of recruitment in most jobs (Mk dons, Saints, Spurs, Leipzig) and technical director at Red bull. The sporting director role is more senior then Head of Recruitment and Technical director. Thus Mitchell probably have no 'own people' in that role to start with. His experience in football is great but not as a sporting director. Thus it makes sense to hire a person under him whose more experience in the job then the average guy. Freedman has been Sporting Director at Palace for 5 years. Its his first role in it which makes him not exactly a seasoned Sporting director but he's certainly more then experienced to be Mitchell's no 2 in all but name. On top of that he's SAF' s former neighbor which means that the two probably have good relations. Maldini is also mentioned whose the Cadillac of Technical directors having done an exceptional job at AC Milan. It seems that INEOS want to bring a stellar team all of whom with experience in buying and developing gems

Manchester United are massive. SAF had no 2s who could have easily been no 1s (Mclaren, Smith and Queroz), the latter covered roles at Real and Portugal. So this would not be the first step down in United's history.

Yep spot on, exciting to have an actual structure in place.
on the flip i dont think Qatar would have been as pragmatic. It would have been "whos a name and how much"

 

[devilish]

Yep spot on, exciting to have an actual structure in place.
on the flip i dont think Qatar would have been as pragmatic. It would have been "whos a name and how much"

I don't want to return talking about Qatar simply because it has zero relevance at this point. However since you've asked I think that the scenario would be different if Jassim took over

First of all he would have gotten rid of the Glazers. That's a huge moral boost for them as opposed to SJR whose keeping them here. The 92 foundation would probably engage themselves into huge infrastructure work which will earn them more brownie points among fans and would take most of their focus. That's less pressure on them as opposed to INEOS. On the other hand INEOS has the luxury of being experienced in football and therefore having a number of people either employed with them (ex Blanc) or in their radar (ex Mitchell). That's something the 92 foundation didn't have. The 92 foundation would probably take more time to settle down/learn the ropes and would probably let the current football people on board for longer. Thus rumors of Arnold preferring them to INEOS makes sense.

 

[devilish]

Mitchell has been after a role above DOF for some time, it wouldnt shock me if he was a sporting director and Friedman was a more traditional DOF or head of first team recruitment - basically what darren fletcher is supposed to be doing.

Fletcher's job is not in recruitment. His job is to help academy players integrate with the first team. He's got a reduced version of the role that Maldini had at Milan (Maldini had a toe in transfers as well)

 

[pascell]

I can see why they felt they should demote him

I agree.

 

[golden_blunder]

Mitchell has been after a role above DOF for some time, it wouldnt shock me if he was a sporting director and Friedman was a more traditional DOF or head of first team recruitment - basically what darren fletcher is supposed to be doing.

It’s not what Fletcher is supposed to be doing. His job is helping kids transition to the 1st team. Nothing to do with recruitment. Another one falling for the shitty job title.

 

[limerickcitykid]

It’s not what Fletcher is supposed to be doing. His job is helping kids transition to the 1st team. Nothing to do with recruitment. Another one falling for the shitty job title.

He is somewhat involved in recruitment though, although not remotely a head of recruitment. The transitioning of academy players with the first team is only a part of his job, not its entirety.

He was heavily credited with convincing Varane to join. His role involves giving his opinion on the technical requirements of the first team to the board and being a link between ETH and Murtough. He also is involved in recruitment by being involved in discussions with potential players.

People complained incessantly about us not having football people to convince new signings when Evra or someone mentioned it. Fletcher now does that. Similarly everyone complained about the disconnect between the manager and the board/Woodward. Fletcher is now the link, this is why he is involved in training and the day to day football side, to evaluate and report to Murtough.

 

[golden_blunder]

He is somewhat involved in recruitment though, although not remotely a head of recruitment. The transitioning of academy players with the first team is only a part of his job, not its entirety.

He was heavily credited with convincing Varane to join. His role involves giving his opinion on the technical requirements of the first team to the board and being a link between ETH and Murtough. He also is involved in recruitment by being involved in discussions with potential players.

People complained incessantly about us not having football people to convince new signings when Evra or someone mentioned it. Fletcher now does that. Similarly everyone complained about the disconnect between the manager and the board/Woodward. Fletcher is now the link, this is why he is involved in training and the day to day football side, to evaluate and report to Murtough.

Yes he sometimes gets involved in “selling” the club to prospective joiners talking about his own experiences, history and culture of the club.
But let’s draw the line at that before people start blaming him for recruiting or for high salaries. That’s not on him at all.

 

[roseguy64]

Well no it's not, but do we know if he does and, if so, do all parties have one? Or are we just inventing things again?

Pretty sure Murtough has one and ETH has one. That's why we didn't go for Kane. The club vetoed that move.

 

[roseguy64]

But you see this is where you are incorrect, Mitchell is not a 'fad' he has been well established at many big clubs around Europe and well reknowned as a Head of Recruitment and Development at these clubs. He has vastly more experience in this kind of role than John Murtough does, who for all intents are purposes has pretty much been a Glazer yes man. We want elite footballing minds in these positions, not bankers and Glazer yes men. Not to say he hasn't done some good things, but new ownership of the sporting side are going to want to bring in their own people with their own idea of how the club should be run, quite frankly I think the sporting side of the club has been absolutely horrendous and think most people that have been recruited by the Glazers into positions of power should have their jobs questioned.

I'm all in for a wholesale clearout. All departments will be working towards a common goal when INEOS get all the people they want who will work with them to do so, Murtough can have all the data and analytics he wants but he pretty much bent over for ETH's transfer targets instead of building a team for Manchester United as a club now and in the future with our without ETH, which is what a proper DOF should do.

You're right about what Murtough should have been doing but I wonder if he was empowered to do that or only when like Kane and Antony initially, the Glazers backed him? Fine with him being fired but wouldn't be surprised if behind the scenes it was Joel who authorized the amount of control ETH had and not Arnold/Murtough.

 

[roseguy64]

It doesn't make sense to me because why either of them will accept this ?

Why Freedman will take a job of head of recruitment when he's a DOF ? Why Mitchell would want him and not bring his own people ?

Yeah we don't want a Chelsea situation where there were too many cooks and one of them got removed in the summer I think?

 

[roseguy64]

Mitchell has been after a role above DOF for some time, it wouldnt shock me if he was a sporting director and Friedman was a more traditional DOF or head of first team recruitment - basically what darren fletcher is supposed to be doing.

Fletcher's job in recruitment is supposed to be giving an opinion. He's not making decisions on bringing in transfers.

 

[roseguy64]

He is somewhat involved in recruitment though, although not remotely a head of recruitment. The transitioning of academy players with the first team is only a part of his job, not its entirety.

He was heavily credited with convincing Varane to join. His role involves giving his opinion on the technical requirements of the first team to the board and being a link between ETH and Murtough. He also is involved in recruitment by being involved in discussions with potential players.

People complained incessantly about us not having football people to convince new signings when Evra or someone mentioned it. Fletcher now does that. Similarly everyone complained about the disconnect between the manager and the board/Woodward. Fletcher is now the link, this is why he is involved in training and the day to day football side, to evaluate and report to Murtough.

Yes, this.

 

[OleGunnar20]

The winds of change are a'comin. I am fecking excited.

 

[Greck]

The general consensus (or so I thought) was that he did a decent job backing the manager and his targets. The downside of that, with benefit of hindsight, has been over the top transfer fees on one-dimensional players who would be hard to get rid off if you abandon the manager. A more astute director would try to stay ahead of the media news leaks, agent stories etc. and try to put some smokescreens in for better bargains, so can't really applaud Murtough for being average.

That cant be entirely right. From the start the general consensus was that we were over manager subservient team building. It was even a huge part of the hype for his appointment. This was well foreseen from the start, no hindsight.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Finally gone/going

1. Ed
2. Arnold
3. Murtough

We need to start a new era with proper football structure. We can't be going round and round on spending 0.5B and 3 years for every manager and end up worse each and every time.

 

[croadyman]

Mitchell as sporting director and Freedman as head of recruitment?

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I could definitely get on board with more than one appointment in recruitment,however until I hear that from a stronger source than Crook I'm skeptical. Don’t think there is any legs to Maldini stuff it's just throwing names out for attention.

 

[tenpoless]

About time the club acts like a giant successful organization where good enough or decent is not enough and keep looking for the best people for the job.

 

[Redivy]

I think what we need to consider is what level of authority we are willing to give to our director of football.

Some clubs have their DoF at the top of the pyramid, they choose the style of play, they have the final decision on transfers and even youth team integration.

For this role, you’d want someone like Rangnick.

Then you have the likes of Paul Mitchell and Micheal Edwards who excel at recruitment, youth team integration and working towards a long term strategy but without being as involved with the style of play.

 

[Loon]

I would how long it will be before we see any (hopefully) benefit from this new structure?

 

[RedUnited86]

I would how long it will be before we see any (hopefully) benefit from this new structure?

January

I'd like to think Mitchell will come in with a big fat list of players that we probably haven't even heard of.

 

[Matt007a]

Maldini would immediately make us cooler. But he’s the definition of the one club man and will probably never leave Milan.

Id prefer Mitchell over Freedman if they are indeed the top 2 candidates. I’m not sure if I’d consider Palace a hugely successful project, plus I think to really be considered great at what you do, you’ve got to have proved it at more than one club.

 

[devilish]

Maldini would immediately make us cooler. But he’s the definition of the one club man and will probably never leave Milan.

Id prefer Mitchell over Freedman if they are indeed the top 2 candidates. I’m not sure if I’d consider Palace a hugely successful project, plus I think to really be considered great at what you do, you’ve got to have proved it at more than one club.

Maldini had a different role to Mitchell and Freedman though. He was a technical director and tbf he was quite great in it. Also think about the name. If the next Haaland is on the market whom would you prefer to have him persuading him a 5 CL winner medal or a former United squad player? The guy won more CLs then our club

 

[Escobar]

Looks like some competent people are finally taking over. I am all for a clear out

 

[UnitedSofa]

Looks like some competent people are finally taking over. I am all for a clear out

Literally hasn’t taken office yet so has no power to do anything. Let’s wait before passing judgement.

Arnold has jumped before he was pushed and Murtough hasn’t left yet, so be interesting to see if he too jumps before he is pushed or is moved elsewhere within the club. (Once INEOS takes over)

To give INEOS credit for this is just downright rose tinted celebratory nonsense

 

[UnitedSofa]

You had to know it was coming.

He hasn’t gone yet, but be interesting to see who the next guy is & what they’ll do & of course I’ll defend them relentlessly too. Haha!

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Maldini would immediately make us cooler. But he’s the definition of the one club man and will probably never leave Milan.

Id prefer Mitchell over Freedman if they are indeed the top 2 candidates. I’m not sure if I’d consider Palace a hugely successful project, plus I think to really be considered great at what you do, you’ve got to have proved it at more than one club.

He was sacked in the summer.

 

[padzilla]

I think Murtough will be the test. If he's not on his way fairly soon we will know it's the same old, same old.