Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director

Pexbo

Winner of the 'I'm not reading that' medal.
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
68,681
Location
Brizzle
Supports
Big Days
Hopefully the former players lean on Fergie’s ear and he will tell them two things:

1. Sign a 25+ league goals a season striker at all cost.
2. Strikers win matches, defences win titles. Get a foil for Maguire that is quick enough to cover behind him and fit enough to play every game next to him.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,891
Location
England
Ian Herbert used to cover United in the past and was a good source for United news.

 

Grande

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
6,303
Location
The Land of Do-What-You-Will
This appointment and position required a strong influence over transfers and player contracts. I don't expect Mr Murtough to get that in his new role and its beggars belief that incompetent Matt Judge will still oversee negotiations.
I think you are playing at being expert. There’s nothing that comes from you that indicates that you know anything about Murtough, and neither do I see any evidence that you really know much about the role functioning nor about Matt Judge, whom you write so confidently about. I’m going to have to settle for clairvoyance.
 

always_hoping

Full Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
7,749
I think you are playing at being expert. There’s nothing that comes from you that indicates that you know anything about Murtough, and neither do I see any evidence that you really know much about the role functioning nor about Matt Judge, whom you write so confidently about. I’m going to have to settle for clairvoyance.
Knock yourself out then if you want believe these these appointments aren't a case of repackaging.
 

Grande

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
6,303
Location
The Land of Do-What-You-Will
Knock yourself out then if you want believe these these appointments aren't a case of repackaging.
I’m not knocking myself out, and I don’t really want to believe anything in particular. It’s rather you and about 30 other posters in this thread that have in common that they want to have a strong opinion, but has no interest in seeking out nor even taking in facts of the matter that could inform any such belief. There is increasing amounts of information cropping up about Murtough, Judge, Fletcher, Woodward, the roles that were and the roles that are. Much of the information has really been available long before this, so is not a matter of Woodward leaking selected information. Me, I’m interested in that part of the picture and like to read about it now and then, so it’s not really a problem for me. What annoys me, is when people who are not interested in that kind of facts and can’t be bothered with reading and analyzing what actually happens (a very honest thing!) - when they don’t do the next honest thing and say ‘Actually I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes, you should ask someone who is really interested in that’, but instead makes up unbased (not necessarily baseless, there is a difference) theories and presents them as truth, and even calls for heads to roll based on these clairvoyant theories.

I do spend some time writing this, because it bothers me more to have to sift through fifty to hundred posts of ‘I know exactly what this is and I’m not gonna tell you why, I just know’.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
34,704

Hmmm sounds like Ducker isn't convinced that Murtough will be left to just do his job and think he is right to be concerned looking at how disastrously this club has been run since the Toy Story puppet took over in 2013
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
34,704
I think the summer will be the barometer. I expect Chelsea and City to be the main spenders and we will be third. we should still be able to attract and buy a couple, maybe three decent players. Lets see who they identify and how quick the deals are done.
Sorry to be negative but just cannot see us getting deals done quickly when there is an international tournament that many of our summer targets are going to be playing at and then they will want to go off on holiday afterwards
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
34,704
Hopefully the former players lean on Fergie’s ear and he will tell them two things:

1. Sign a 25+ league goals a season striker at all cost.
2. Strikers win matches, defences win titles. Get a foil for Maguire that is quick enough to cover behind him and fit enough to play every game next to him.
3. Proper DM who is mobile but can actually also pass between the lines
 

Giggsy13

Full Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2016
Messages
4,341
Location
Toronto
I don’t think anything will really change. Any transfer to my understanding needs approval from the board and the go ahead from Florida. Our approach is slow, drawn out and painful in the transfer market. Apparently we work on one target at a time. Hopefully the process can be more efficient with a DOF in place but I’m not getting my hopes up.
 

tenpoless

No 6-pack, just 2Pac
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
16,324
Location
Ole's ipad
Supports
4-4-2 classic
PE teacher
Balloon popper
Phil Neville lookalike
Hard to believe its not Scholes
Sir Alex's son
Mr. Familiar with United

What a team. Do I think theyre gonna be the key to success? yes. obligatory white text
 

Giggsy13

Full Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2016
Messages
4,341
Location
Toronto
Hmmm sounds like Ducker isn't convinced that Murtough will be left to just do his job and think he is right to be concerned looking at how disastrously this club has been run since the Toy Story puppet took over in 2013
“so long as he remains properly empowered...” that’s the big if isn’t it? I remain skeptical just because of the shithouses running our club.
 

Giggsy13

Full Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2016
Messages
4,341
Location
Toronto
PE teacher
Balloon popper
Phil Neville lookalike
Hard to believe its not Scholes
Sir Alex's son
Mr. Familiar with United

What a team. Do I think theyre gonna be the key to success? yes. obligatory white text
We’re 90s liverpool on steroids. Do they know the club, feck yes they know the club. Do they know how to lead a club to success? Who knows.
 

AltiUn

likes playing with swords after fantasies
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
23,609
Hmmm sounds like Ducker isn't convinced that Murtough will be left to just do his job and think he is right to be concerned looking at how disastrously this club has been run since the Toy Story puppet took over in 2013
Dunno, sounded like he thought the opposite judging by the article.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
34,704
Nah, much easier to use one line to judge everything.
Maybe us doubters in the fanbase will get proved wrong on this one but would have preferred an external appointment for this role as feel it would have brought some fresh ideas to the table which is needed
 

Ali Dia

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
14,321
Location
Souness's Super Sub/George Weahs Talented Cousin
Seeing as it is an internal appointment then I can only imagine we’ve been seeing this new strategy in action over the last few years and it’ll just be a continuation of what has been happening since Ole came in. I’m totally ok with building for the future but not while we continue to leave the squad short on starting quality and robust cover in key positions rather than aggressively troubleshooting each summer as problems arise. I would prefer if we went for players that were a little bit older and more developed than amad/pellistri (and caciedo) and ready for first team squad rotation at the very least instead of singing borderline U23 prospects as cover. Competition for places should always be fierce at Utd but we don’t seem to see it that way, especially when it comes to our attack and defensive midfield. Surely you only prioritise amad type signings to start rotating in when you already have a current solution which definitely isn’t the case with us and the right wing or dm.... Not that Amad looks bad but to be fair we could have left him there for this season and it probably wouldn’t have changed much. He looks great but he’s still a way off being number 1 choice for a bigger club. I hope we have a better summer setting up the first team for the challenges ahead whoever is calling the shots behind the scenes.

I think if the likes of Rice or Sancho are available we will definitely be amongst the interested parties as they are solid long term investments but unless the selling clubs are willing to give us a good deal structured over a few years I can likely see a repeat of last summer. We could very possibly spend much less this year after a whole year without fans. I don’t feel there’s any desire on our owners part to take any risks at this stage to speed up the process as frustrating as that will be for fans and for Ole too no doubt. Hopefully JM can at least clear out as much deadwood as possible and use that money and whatever else the owners put up to freshen the squad. A DOF working with a pretty decent set budget that carries over if we don’t spend is surely the ideal scenario going forward. Anything is better than second guessing whether the glazers are willing to spend or not at each juncture. Is that even going to happen or is there always going to be major uncertainty as to what we can and can’t do each summer?

With the new work permit rules there should be some openings in the South American market for us to investigate. Hopefully we can begin to take advantage of the value in markets like that rather than getting tunnel vision monitoring various situations that inevitably take years to develop at a pace that suits us. That’s not much use to a manager who badly needed reinforcements yesterday but maybe it’s something we will look into going forward.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,891
Location
England
Maybe us doubters in the fanbase will get proved wrong on this one but would have preferred an external appointment for this role as feel it would have brought some fresh ideas to the table which is needed
What kind of fresh ideas are we talking about here with a external appointment?
 

Isotope

Ten Years a Cafite
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
23,621
Why he hasn't used VdB is quite confusing, who by the way was playing as a AM and in a double pivot for Ajax in huge games in the UCL . VdB is a player who has fantastic spacial awareness and is superb at beating the press which is something we could really do with. And regards how the signing came about? Then I'm not gonna speculate and will instead point you to Solskjaer himself, who has made it clear that no signing will be made without his blessings.

Our recruitment in the past 7 years? Let's start from David Moyes. Moyes was appointed at a time when he was succeeding one of the all-time greats in Fergie. David Gill the then CEO also jumped ship after neglecting the academy for many years and leaving it in a very poor state. Woodward replaced him as the CEO and carried on with the manager model that saw Fergie bring great success to the club. So we had two new faces in key positions at a gigantic club, but both men had very little experience. We only had one fulltime scout (Jim Lawlor) which was a reduction from the two fulltime scouts we had under Fergie after his brother Martin Ferguson also retired along with him.

Moyes was then reported to have asked about data on potential incomings and the rest of the research that goes along with it, and he was told that all the information was in Jim Lawlor's head. So do you now understand the job Woodward and Moyes stepped into, was much harder than what was anticipated because after losing a legendary manager like Fergie we also had very little to fall back on. And the chap who's to blame for all this is none other than David Gill.

Moyes as much as we can all criticise the job he did at the club, did one good thing, which was to get the ball rolling when it came to adding a bunker style data centre at Carrington which was similar to the one he used at Finch Farm when he was Everton manager, which brought our club a significant upgrade which would be improved upon year by year. So what we saw in the summer market in 2013, was a club who had lost its driver (Fergie) and was being steered by two chaps (Woodward & Moyes) who didn't know the way.

Moyes then brought in John Murtough in 2014 who was working as the Premier League's head of elite development at the time to fix the issues at the club. The issues were significant because our scouting network was completey out of date and almost non existent when compared to other clubs. This was the mess both Woodward and Moyes inherited from David Gill, who as the CEO just rode on Fergie's coat tails.

Van Gaal then came in and and it was reported he was shocked at how 'unbalanced and broken' the squad was. The academy restructuring was taking place at the time with Murtough, Lawlor and the rest working to bring us up to date in that regard when compared to our rivals, who we had fallen years behind. But the issue was that we carried on with our approach of giving the manager total control in the transfer market and we brought in more dud signings due to trusting the manager to lead the footballing department. Schweinsteiger, Blind, Depay, Rojo, etc were signed without the say so of the scouts. Rojo was signed due to him impressing Van Gaal's analytics team after the Dutch were defeated in the world cup semi-final v Argentina, according to Van Gaal himself. Di Maria and Falcao were also signed due to Van Gaal name dropping one and citing the other players goal scoring record as to why he should be signed. But when he was sacked, he left a parting gift in the form of Marcel Bout who was the opposition scout during LVGs tenure and was later appointed as the head of global scouting in October 2016 where he assigns the scouts on their mission(s) around the globe and they report back to him.

Mourinho then replaced LVG and was backed heavily but his signings left a lot to be desired. It was also reported by highly reputable journos that he was using his own personal scouts to sign players and we ended up with several average players who should never have been signed for the money it took to bring them to the club. But the penny finally dropped with Woodward and he finally took notice of the clubs recruitment department which had grown exponentially since Fergie retired and it was the likes of Bout, Lawlor and Murtough who put paid to Mourinho's autonomy in the transfer market, hence Mourinho throwing his toys out of the pram.

So how can you blame our recruitment department when the manager is leading the football department and is signing players due to trusting scouts who are independent from the club he's working for?

Most big clubs recruit from with in the organisation because it's the sensible thing to do. If you have a network of scouts who are among the best in their field, then all you need is someone to give them direction which Marcel Bout is doing since he was appointed as the head of global scouting in October 2016. So when the club say, it's a 'evolution not a revolution' then look back to when Fergie retired and we only had one fulltime scout to what it's grown to over the years. So when you question the last 7 years, you're missing the ever evolving structure that has been created in those years and the key people that have been brought to the club to create it.
Sorry you lost me here. You're trying to portray that our scouting system was non-existent before John Murtough and Moyes came in.

Let me argue with this. I don't believe for instance, it was all Fergie that found the likes of Nani, Ronaldo, Vidic, Evra, DDG etc. He might approve them, but not in million years i believe he's the one that came up with those names. Those are relatively "unknown" players, compare to the like of Maguire, AWB, Di Maria, Pogba, Mata, Fellaini, Ibra, Lukaku, etc. It's obvious the laters don't really need much scouting but the formers, you do need more than decent scouts.

So the facts speak for itself, that our scouting is actually getting worse.
 

Bastian

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
18,569
Supports
Mejbri
Does Fletcher speak other languages? Can he speak simple English :D
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,891
Location
England
Sorry you lost me here. You're trying to portray that our scouting system was non-existent before John Murtough and Moyes came in.

Let me argue with this. I don't believe for instance, it was all Fergie that found the likes of Nani, Ronaldo, Vidic, Evra, DDG etc. He might approve them, but not in million years i believe he's the one that came up with those names. Those are relatively "unknown" players, compare to the like of Maguire, AWB, Di Maria, Pogba, Mata, Fellaini, Ibra, Lukaku, etc. It's obvious the laters don't really need much scouting but the formers, you do need more than decent scouts.

So the facts speak for itself, that our scouting is actually getting worse.
Carlos Queiroz helped us sign Ronaldo and also helped facilitate a co-operation agreement between United and SCP. That was well documented at the time.

No it wasn't Fergie that found those players but the two fulltime scouts and numerous part time scouts working at the club which included members of the coaching staff like Jimmy Ryan who spotted the potential of Solskjaer after being sent to scout Ronny Johnsen. Our scouting network was out of date when compared to the biggest clubs.

And then when you lose the driving force (Fergie) who made it all work due to him having everyone pull in the same direction, everything collapsed with David Gill jumping ship because he knew what was coming with only one full time scout (Jim Lawlor) which was a reduction from the two full time scouts we had under Fergie. And to make things worse, Moyes and Woodward were thrust into new roles with no player database to fall back on and were relying on what was stored in Jim Lawlor's head who subsequently was our only fulltime scout.

Murtough was brought into fix the mess and he's done a fantastic job to restructure the academy and bring United up along with the most advanced clubs.
 

OmarUnited4ever

Full Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2021
Messages
3,438
Carlos Queiroz helped us sign Ronaldo and also helped facilitate a co-operation agreement between United and SCP. That was well documented at the time.

No it wasn't Fergie that found those players but the two fulltime scouts and numerous part time scouts working at the club which included members of the coaching staff like Jimmy Ryan who spotted the potential of Solskjaer after being sent to scout Ronny Johnsen. Our scouting network was out of date when compared to the biggest clubs.

And then when you lose the driving force (Fergie) who made it all work due to him having everyone pull in the same direction, everything collapsed with David Gill jumping ship because he knew what was coming with only one full time scout (Jim Lawlor) which was a reduction from the two full time scouts we had under Fergie. And to make things worse, Moyes and Woodward were thrust into new roles with no player database to fall back on and were relying on what was stored in Jim Lawlor's head who subsequently was our only fulltime scout.

Murtough was brought into fix the mess and he's done a fantastic job to restructure the academy and bring United up along with the most advanced clubs.
On Evra, he was a regular at Monaco and played in the CL final in 2004, so we can't consider him an unknown player at that time.

Nani & Anderson, probably Carlos Quiroz recommend them to Ferguson as I expect he had good connections in Portugal.

Hargreaves was well known player who represented Engalnd in Euros & WC and played for BM.

But not sure how they found Vidic though, never heard of when we signed him in Jan 2006.

You have sheded some light on the scouting situation pre 2013 and post 2013, I remember I read something about that perhaps if you have an article that details what you mentioned in this thread if you can .. thanks
 

-Supreme-

Full Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2018
Messages
2,447
Why he hasn't used VdB is quite confusing, who by the way was playing as a AM and in a double pivot for Ajax in huge games in the UCL . VdB is a player who has fantastic spacial awareness and is superb at beating the press which is something we could really do with. And regards how the signing came about? Then I'm not gonna speculate and will instead point you to Solskjaer himself, who has made it clear that no signing will be made without his blessings.

Our recruitment in the past 7 years? Let's start from David Moyes. Moyes was appointed at a time when he was succeeding one of the all-time greats in Fergie. David Gill the then CEO also jumped ship after neglecting the academy for many years and leaving it in a very poor state. Woodward replaced him as the CEO and carried on with the manager model that saw Fergie bring great success to the club. So we had two new faces in key positions at a gigantic club, but both men had very little experience. We only had one fulltime scout (Jim Lawlor) which was a reduction from the two fulltime scouts we had under Fergie after his brother Martin Ferguson also retired along with him.

Moyes was then reported to have asked about data on potential incomings and the rest of the research that goes along with it, and he was told that all the information was in Jim Lawlor's head. So do you now understand the job Woodward and Moyes stepped into, was much harder than what was anticipated because after losing a legendary manager like Fergie we also had very little to fall back on. And the chap who's to blame for all this is none other than David Gill.

Moyes as much as we can all criticise the job he did at the club, did one good thing, which was to get the ball rolling when it came to adding a bunker style data centre at Carrington which was similar to the one he used at Finch Farm when he was Everton manager, which brought our club a significant upgrade which would be improved upon year by year. So what we saw in the summer market in 2013, was a club who had lost its driver (Fergie) and was being steered by two chaps (Woodward & Moyes) who didn't know the way.

Moyes then brought in John Murtough in 2014 who was working as the Premier League's head of elite development at the time to fix the issues at the club. The issues were significant because our scouting network was completey out of date and almost non existent when compared to other clubs. This was the mess both Woodward and Moyes inherited from David Gill, who as the CEO just rode on Fergie's coat tails.

Van Gaal then came in and and it was reported he was shocked at how 'unbalanced and broken' the squad was. The academy restructuring was taking place at the time with Murtough, Lawlor and the rest working to bring us up to date in that regard when compared to our rivals, who we had fallen years behind. But the issue was that we carried on with our approach of giving the manager total control in the transfer market and we brought in more dud signings due to trusting the manager to lead the footballing department. Schweinsteiger, Blind, Depay, Rojo, etc were signed without the say so of the scouts. Rojo was signed due to him impressing Van Gaal's analytics team after the Dutch were defeated in the world cup semi-final v Argentina, according to Van Gaal himself. Di Maria and Falcao were also signed due to Van Gaal name dropping one and citing the other players goal scoring record as to why he should be signed. But when he was sacked, he left a parting gift in the form of Marcel Bout who was the opposition scout during LVGs tenure and was later appointed as the head of global scouting in October 2016 where he assigns the scouts on their mission(s) around the globe and they report back to him.

Mourinho then replaced LVG and was backed heavily but his signings left a lot to be desired. It was also reported by highly reputable journos that he was using his own personal scouts to sign players and we ended up with several average players who should never have been signed for the money it took to bring them to the club. But the penny finally dropped with Woodward and he finally took notice of the clubs recruitment department which had grown exponentially since Fergie retired and it was the likes of Bout, Lawlor and Murtough who put paid to Mourinho's autonomy in the transfer market, hence Mourinho throwing his toys out of the pram.

So how can you blame our recruitment department when the manager is leading the football department and is signing players due to trusting scouts who are independent from the club he's working for?

Most big clubs recruit from with in the organisation because it's the sensible thing to do. If you have a network of scouts who are among the best in their field, then all you need is someone to give them direction which Marcel Bout is doing since he was appointed as the head of global scouting in October 2016. So when the club say, it's a 'evolution not a revolution' then look back to when Fergie retired and we only had one fulltime scout to what it's grown to over the years. So when you question the last 7 years, you're missing the ever evolving structure that has been created in those years and the key people that have been brought to the club to create it.
Good post - interesting to hear that OGS has said no signings will be made without his approval but isn't this our problem over the years by giving our managers too much authority when it comes to new players coming in?

Presumably he commented this before the recent announcement, so it'd be interesting to see if this will change going forward.
 

MrMarcello

In a well-ordered universe...
Joined
Dec 26, 2000
Messages
52,743
Location
On a pale blue dot in space
On Evra, he was a regular at Monaco and played in the CL final in 2004, so we can't consider him an unknown player at that time.

Nani & Anderson, probably Carlos Quiroz recommend them to Ferguson as I expect he had good connections in Portugal.

Hargreaves was well known player who represented Engalnd in Euros & WC and played for BM.

But not sure how they found Vidic though, never heard of when we signed him in Jan 2006.

You have sheded some light on the scouting situation pre 2013 and post 2013, I remember I read something about that perhaps if you have an article that details what you mentioned in this thread if you can .. thanks
They had been tracking Vidic for at least three years. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/2961426.stm

My guess is the main scouts then, be it Darren or Jim, went to various youth tournaments amongst relying on part-time scouts and word of mouth from others. It is odd to me that a club like United only had one full-time scout for years.
 

dinostar77

Full Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2014
Messages
7,254
"....Transfer policy they are concentrating on is Secure best talent in local area. If that doesn't fit requirements. Then best talent in england. If that doesnt fit requirements then best talent in europe. Focus on young players, focus on players from British isles and create a pathway for academy players into first team...."

Duncan Castles Transfer Window podcast. On Murtough and Fletcher appointment. Murtough has been in the role since Ole started, they just finally gave him the title.

Utd decided against a big name appointment ala Luis Campos or Marc Overmars (latter was due to be interviewed but pulled out). They want to stick to the multi year process that has been put in since Ole joined.

Ole has a veto if he doesn't want a particular player. Ole identifies areas or positions he wants to improve in the first team. The scouting department then present a list of options to Ole. If Ole wants a player that doesnt fit the metrics of the scouting department then said department can raise their concerns.
 

OmarUnited4ever

Full Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2021
Messages
3,438
They had been tracking Vidic for at least three years. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/2961426.stm

My guess is the main scouts then, be it Darren or Jim, went to various youth tournaments amongst relying on part-time scouts and word of mouth from others. It is odd to me that a club like United only had one full-time scout for years.

Wow on the Vidic part, I don't think many fans knew about him when he joined, also back then (2006-2008) I was watching only PL, La Liga and CL, Serie A became shit since the Calciopoli, and of course I wasn't watching Portuguese league so I didn't know much about Nani and Anderson, Hargreaves saw him play for Engalnd in 04' and 06' and I remember Park from him South Korea performances in WC 2002.

But as you as said and what Adnan mentioned, I am surprised to know that United only had one full time Scout during SAF era.
 

OmarUnited4ever

Full Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2021
Messages
3,438
Good post - interesting to hear that OGS has said no signings will be made without his approval but isn't this our problem over the years by giving our managers too much authority when it comes to new players coming in?

Presumably he commented this before the recent announcement, so it'd be interesting to see if this will change going forward.
I agree with you on the part where it's a concern if a manager has too much power on transfer decisions, but I also read that the Scouting Department has a veto power as well, so Ole won't bring anyone just because he can, he'll be challenged by the transfer committee so hopefully any player who comes in fits the club and should remain a valuable part of the team even if Ole leaves.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,891
Location
England
On Evra, he was a regular at Monaco and played in the CL final in 2004, so we can't consider him an unknown player at that time.

Nani & Anderson, probably Carlos Quiroz recommend them to Ferguson as I expect he had good connections in Portugal.

Hargreaves was well known player who represented Engalnd in Euros & WC and played for BM.

But not sure how they found Vidic though, never heard of when we signed him in Jan 2006.

You have sheded some light on the scouting situation pre 2013 and post 2013, I remember I read something about that perhaps if you have an article that details what you mentioned in this thread if you can .. thanks
Vidic was
On Evra, he was a regular at Monaco and played in the CL final in 2004, so we can't consider him an unknown player at that time.

Nani & Anderson, probably Carlos Quiroz recommend them to Ferguson as I expect he had good connections in Portugal.

Hargreaves was well known player who represented Engalnd in Euros & WC and played for BM.

But not sure how they found Vidic though, never heard of when we signed him in Jan 2006.

You have sheded some light on the scouting situation pre 2013 and post 2013, I remember I read something about that perhaps if you have an article that details what you mentioned in this thread if you can .. thanks
Vidic was part of the Serbian defence that conceded only one goal in the qualifying stages for the 2006 world cup and was part of a back 4 that was dubbed the 'famous four' around Europe. His performances for Serbia put him in the shop window with Fiorentina coming very close to signing him until United intervened.

There was numerous articles over the years from the likes of Ducker, Ogden, Ladyman which I remember reading which shed light on the process that was taking place.
 

roseguy64

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
12,217
Location
Jamaica
Good post - interesting to hear that OGS has said no signings will be made without his approval but isn't this our problem over the years by giving our managers too much authority when it comes to new players coming in?

Presumably he commented this before the recent announcement, so it'd be interesting to see if this will change going forward.
Ole still has his veto power.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
34,704
What kind of fresh ideas are we talking about here with a external appointment?
Well someone who knows the european market because they have worked for a club on the continent, they might have known players capable of making the step up in our weakest positions which are CB, DM, & RW who wouldn't have cost the earth to bring in either
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,891
Location
England
Good post - interesting to hear that OGS has said no signings will be made without his approval but isn't this our problem over the years by giving our managers too much authority when it comes to new players coming in?

Presumably he commented this before the recent announcement, so it'd be interesting to see if this will change going forward.
Giving too much control to managers post Fergie is what has got us in this mess IMO. I will also include the out of date scouting and falling behind badly when it comes to the sports science aspect as another failing. Take Liverpool for example who when they appointed the late Gerard Houllier as manager, he modernised the club regards professionalism, discipline, diet and the sports science aspect. The prem title alluded him but he had put in place mechanisms which would later help his successors and Michael Edwards who is their de-facto sporting director according to the Mersey Side press pack.

For me the head coach should concentrate on coaching the team and the clubs recruitment department should have the final say on who we sign. The head coach should be confided in who we're targeting, but the direction, when it comes to implementing a strategy for the mid to longterm should always belong to someone who has longevity in the role. The head coach's role statistically has a short shelf life so having a sporting director who is independent from the coaching staff making the ultimate call with input from numerous people is the best way forward IMO and it provides continuity and stability.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,891
Location
England
Well someone who knows the european market because they have worked for a club on the continent, they might have known players capable of making the step up in our weakest positions which are CB, DM, & RW who wouldn't have cost the earth to bring in either
We have that person in Marcel Bout who will be working alongside John Murtough. Bout has vast experience around Europe whether that be in developing and coaching youth or coaching the first teams in Holland and Germany and also at International level for the Dutch NT.

And also let's not forget our scouts like Henny de Regt who joined us from the Netherlands and was helping Derek Langley in the recruitment before Langley retired. We have the most diverse scouting network in the world.
 

-Supreme-

Full Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2018
Messages
2,447
Giving too much control to managers post Fergie is what has got us in this mess IMO. I will also include the out of date scouting and falling behind badly when it comes to the sports science aspect as another failing. Take Liverpool for example who when they appointed the late Gerard Houllier as manager, he modernised the club regards professionalism, discipline, diet and the sports science aspect. The prem title alluded him but he had put in place mechanisms which would later help his successors and Michael Edwards who is their de-facto sporting director according to the Mersey Side press pack.

For me the head coach should concentrate on coaching the team and the clubs recruitment department should have the final say on who we sign. The head coach should be confided in who we're targeting, but the direction, when it comes to implementing a strategy for the mid to longterm should always belong to someone who has longevity in the role. The head coach's role statistically has a short shelf life so having a sporting director who is independent from the coaching staff making the ultimate call with input from numerous people is the best way forward IMO and it provides continuity and stability.
Agreed.

The early signs shows that vDB may not have been his signing and the responsibility will ultimately be with the Manager if results do not go his way.
 

cyril C

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2017
Messages
2,646
Hopefully the former players lean on Fergie’s ear and he will tell them two things:

1. Sign a 25+ league goals a season striker at all cost.
2. Strikers win matches, defences win titles. Get a foil for Maguire that is quick enough to cover behind him and fit enough to play every game next to him.
We did sign Lukaku, Ole thinks he is not suitable to his tactics.

LVG recruited a few defenders that we are yet to get rid of, yes some consistency on level of standard would be useful, in stead of replacing the bunch every 3 years.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

New Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
13,127
Supports
Erik ten Hag
I don’t think anything will really change. Any transfer to my understanding needs approval from the board and the go ahead from Florida. Our approach is slow, drawn out and painful in the transfer market. Apparently we work on one target at a time. Hopefully the process can be more efficient with a DOF in place but I’m not getting my hopes up.
I think the only thing Ed has power is financially. He will give DoF & the manager budget that we can spend for football but he will not get involved directly to the football matters like transfer decision and contract decision. As long as the cost control is within the budget, I don’t think Ed will have problem with that.