Can this be turned into John Murtough sack watch @Tom Van Persie
Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
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A proper DOF would be someone like Rangnick who is willing to speak the truth about football and prioritize football above all.
But as we can see from Rangnick case, he was considered too outspoken and didn't toe the party line. It was no surprise that he was sacked and there were plenty of excuses for his sacking. The truth was the club want someone like Murtough who don't rock the boat. Murtough was happy that his mates gave him multi-million job doing basically yes man roles.
If the DOF was too outspoken the people above him at the higher management and the board level may lose their jobs. Even the owners will be affected. Hence, all those unqualified higher management team especially Arnold would like someone who knows when to keep his mouth shut to protect them.
I have no doubt that if we let Rangnick continue his advisor roles or get in a proper DOF we can't be any worse than now. We spent almost half a billion and playing negative football like LVG, Ole, Jose and Moyes time.
But as we can see from Rangnick case, he was considered too outspoken and didn't toe the party line. It was no surprise that he was sacked and there were plenty of excuses for his sacking. The truth was the club want someone like Murtough who don't rock the boat. Murtough was happy that his mates gave him multi-million job doing basically yes man roles.
If the DOF was too outspoken the people above him at the higher management and the board level may lose their jobs. Even the owners will be affected. Hence, all those unqualified higher management team especially Arnold would like someone who knows when to keep his mouth shut to protect them.
I have no doubt that if we let Rangnick continue his advisor roles or get in a proper DOF we can't be any worse than now. We spent almost half a billion and playing negative football like LVG, Ole, Jose and Moyes time.
So people here have finally woken up to the fact that John Murtough, Manchester United FIRST EVER DoF is someone without proper experience, proper expertise, and proper networks, took you people this long eh? I have lost my faith in him in early 2022, when we had chance to sign the likes of Enzo Fernandes, Alexis McAllister, Julian Alvarez for pittance YET this man thought it would be wiser to wait for the next manager arrival first. It was obvious from that time that this man has no clue of how Director of Football supposed to work, what the jobdesk of DoF is. The fact that he's turned into ETH's lackey when he was supposed to be his direct superior says it all. SAD thing is that most United supporters across the board (not only on caf) failed to see this problem, only after we hit the iceberg that people have finally realised the fooly of this man.
DoF is not someone who speak a lot in media. DoF is someone who design the whole structure of the club, from assessing the backroom staff, manager, players, to signing off dietitian and nutritionist, DoF should be working behind the scene in silence.
For such a big club to give all responsibility to the manager is crazy.
The 3 big off-field stories so far this season (Greenwood, Antony, Sancho) have been handled in a way which will only result in adding more and more pressure to the manager.
Surely the job of the DOF is to make the managers life easier not more difficult.
The 3 big off-field stories so far this season (Greenwood, Antony, Sancho) have been handled in a way which will only result in adding more and more pressure to the manager.
Surely the job of the DOF is to make the managers life easier not more difficult.
We can't keep going on sacking manager and getting someone new in who need another 500M and three years to rebuild who will ultimately failed. This will get us nowhere. We have been through this for more than 10 years. Enough is enough.
For all Perez and Laporta faults, they know how to get in a proper DOF and team around the DOF to support the football structure.
For us, the board is all about protecting Glazers interest and the business side of the club. There is no long term plan for football, the long term plan is to sell the club for 6 billion to maximize profits for the cnuts.
For all Perez and Laporta faults, they know how to get in a proper DOF and team around the DOF to support the football structure.
For us, the board is all about protecting Glazers interest and the business side of the club. There is no long term plan for football, the long term plan is to sell the club for 6 billion to maximize profits for the cnuts.
If the structure is rotten should he still keep quiet? If his hands are tied shouldn't he speak up? I am very sure proper DOF will speak up or leave the club if things are not corrcted. But Murtough won't.
You have the authority to fix that structure. problem with rangnick is that, he was appointed as MANAGER with 2 years of consultancy clause added into it. it said nothing about him becoming our DoF. if you want to see how another DoF works in silence, take a look at Edu at Arsenal. How many press conference hes had in last 2 years? The front man should still be the manager but with DoF pulling all the strings.
Yes, agree under normal circumstances. But our club football structure is rotten, we need real revamp of the system from the very top. Hence, the outbursts from our advisor (Rangnick) to the DoF. I am sure a proper DOF or advisor or whatnot will speak up.
Where's my favourite essay writer to waltz in here and explain to us the 4D chess Murtough and the other clowns are playing?
I said he'll look silly when the house of cards of hype inevitably collapses. But I bet you won't see him until we get some decent results, so it might take the season.
I said he'll look silly when the house of cards of hype inevitably collapses. But I bet you won't see him until we get some decent results, so it might take the season.
Arnold is by all accounts a very hands-off CEO who trusts his staff and delegates to his subordinates. Which IMO is preferable to a micromanaging CEO like Woodward who had no business getting deeply involved in all our operations.
The problem is, even a delegator has to be hands-on and act decisively in a time of crisis or when a large decision needs to be made. And judging from our response (or lack thereof) to various crises we've recently faced, Arnold doesn't appear to be the right person for that.
All the hate towards Rangnick came down to "he was a shit coach". Which, right or wrong, is an irrelevant point - those of us who wanted him kept on were hoping he'd be involved upstairs, where his skills and experience lie, helping shape the structure of the club.
Murtough worked in football for over 15 years before joining United, there was nothing quick about it.
That isn’t even remotely an accurate description of the Elite Performance Plan.
David Harrison’s job isn’t related to football at all. He works in logistics and as far as I’m aware Everton also made it to their matches on time and none of their players were left homeless so he’s perfectly met the standard of his job requirements.
The whole Rangnick episode is actually a pretty great microcosm of how badly we're run.
Behind the sofa, amirite.
The "quickly" was in relation to him moving into the role after being out academy manager for three years. Not sure why you'd feel the need to nitpick one word when I said he was the most qualified out of the lot. And that's my main point; I don't think he's a great person to put at the forefront of our setup. Discuss that part of you want.
Also, if you have the accurate description of O'Boyle's role at the Premier League then I'd love to learn more.
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The newly appointed manager apparently didn't want him around though so...
Time will tell if we should have avoided them at all, nevermind injured. Hojlund especially, for this amount, is as big a gamble as Antony and we all know how that turned out.
Now, the fact that we had a striker for a total of 80-90min of our first 5 league games and the consequences of that are that we are 7 pts from top 4 IS the club's fault and yes, it should have definitely been considered (not that anyone actually thinks in this club). Especially considering the fact that our 21 year old, completely inexpireneced striker's backup is painfully ueseless.
Absolutely comical the biggest club in the country and one of Europe's elite this is the best they can muster up.
Ragnick would probably be hell to work under unless you bought into his ideas which are quite different from ETH’s so not sure why ETH not wanting to retain really signifies much.
United did what we do best though, hire him in a capacity he’s average/poor in and then completely ignore the one thing he’s renowned for.
Everytime I read the thread title I think just... why? Why does the club give jobs to inexprienced people?
Holding hands with Adnan.
Murtough has some credentials, but they were from over a decade ago. A different era. The original Everton Moyes era. People often wonder what would happen if Moyes was given more time. Murtough has been learning behind the scenes without any pressure for ten years, and has the last two summer transfer windows to show for it.
Because I don't think they know what they're doing or even who to start with. That's why the money they throw at the teambis pointless. It goes through these people so it's mostly wasted
The one thing you would have thought was logical was for the parasites to have put some competance in the CEO and DOF to run the club. The wages would have roughly been the same, yet the benefits would have been a lot better. We probably would of had better results, maybe top 4 finishes regularly with trophies, and maybe not so much money wasted on players that should never have been bought.
Is it a conspiracy to suggest that if we appoint people who are too good, the demands for change won't allow the Glazers the comfort factor they have right now? People who have genuinely called them out have bitten the dust. Seems they want simple yes men who can perpetuate the cycle, rather than people who might force change and the expense and historic embarrassment it might entail (training facilities, stadium upgrades demanded, scouts all getting binned off, player clean out - basically undoing a lot of the crap that has been done on their watch, while shining a light on what hasn't).
It sounds ludicrous, but I can't think of another reason why we would be doing this. We throw money around with reckless abandon normally, so it can't be penny pinching. It has to be simply a desire for an easy ride and to avoid being shown up.
I think fans give the club too much credit in regards to Ragnick was brought in to be the DOF after his short spell as manager.
I think the truth was they were scrambling around per usual without any plan after Ole left and Ralf was the easiest guy to replace him as caretaker manager…giving them an extra few months to find an actual manager.
All talk of the DOF role seemed to come from social media and fan channels.
That's the funny part. They're obviously greedy bast@rds but they've actually wasted hundreds of millions. We could have gotten similar results with about say, 500 million extra in the bank if they'd appointed competent people but couldn't even manage that.
As far as I remember, the notion of him being a 2 year consultant was put into his contract. The DOF thing was never something that came from the club but he was definitely supposed to have an influence.
United is a joke of the moment. We appoint people into key role that I have never heard of whereas other clubs appointed ex-players who has been around. We have so many ex-players as pundits that has so much knowledge, just take Keane for instance, no hold bar personality. He will tell ETH straight in his face that Antony and Martinez may not be suitable in his face. We need someone like that to put United back on the map, not someone who listen to the coach 99% of the time. Time to appoint real footballing people.
Keane would be an absolute disaster. He has the people skills of a rabid dog and the tactical knowledge of a grumpy Dad who just shouts "tackle him" from the sidelines of their sons games. No serious club would ever let him within 100 miles of their decision making. That's why he's a pundit.
Plenty of our explayers haven't got a clue anyway. Neville, Rio and Scholes all seem like dinosaurs to me. Rio is partially to blame for Ronaldo. Van der Sar is the only exception because he's done well at Ajax.
We need people who are actually qualified at running a football club and it's recruitment. People at clubs like Brighton.
They must both go.
According to an Athletic report, everything has to go through them. Even petty amounts or loan deals for youth players have to be personally signed off by Joel.
I said this to a fellow United fan who is in his 60's (he did not know) and he could not believe it.
How would Rangnick be the easiest person to replace Ole? Think about what you're saying.
He was already employed elsewhere and we chose him as the interim manager after interviewing other candidates, some of whom were unemployed. Rangnick was brought in because he was supposed to be helping out behind the scenes.
When you consider the Murtough regime is coming up to the £500 million expenditure and you look at what’s on the pitch the argument as to whether he is doing a good job is just ridiculous.
I don't know how on earth can Darren Fletcher be worthy of being named Technical Director
In his defence many technical director are just ex-players but they're working in a well drilled well oiled machine and probably have impressed the higher ups with their presentation. I can't say Fletcher fills me with confidence. Judging from our purchases most of them are extremely bad purchases to the point where we spent 50M and not having a clue where to play him since day 1 (DVB)
For comparison purposes : Sven Mislintat is Ajax's Technical director. Bellow are his experiences
Born in Kamen, North Rhine-Westphalia, Mislintat is a graduate of Ruhr University Bochum.[1] He qualified as a football coach in 2011.[3]
Mislintat went from being an analyst to being chief scout at Borussia Dortmund in the Bundesliga in 2006. The team, which had been saved from bankruptcy a year earlier, changed its recruitment from making big-money transfers to signing and developing young players. His signings included Polish striker Robert Lewandowski in 2010, Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang as his replacement in 2014, Japanese second division winger Shinji Kagawa, young French forward Ousmane Dembélé and FC Bayern Munich II defender Mats Hummels; all performed well at Dortmund and several were sold for significant profits.[4] Dembélé joined from Stade Rennais F.C. for €15 million in 2016 and was sold to FC Barcelona a year later for €105 million.[5]
In November 2017, Mislintat left Borussia Dortmund for Arsenal. He said that he had been looking for an exit from the Westfalenstadion since January 2016, when he was banished from the club's training ground and inner circle by manager Thomas Tuchel, over an argument about signing Óliver Torres from Atlético Madrid.[6] He remained at the Emirates Stadium until February 2019. He signed eight players, of which two were sold for small profits, resulting in a £103 million loss for the club. The largest loss was for Aubameyang, who followed him to Arsenal for £56 million and left for Barcelona for free.[7] In 2021, he defended all his signings in an interview with The Athletic.[8][9]
Mislintat returned to the Bundesliga as sporting director at VfB Stuttgart in April 2019.[10] He left in November 2022.[11] He was then linked to Liverpool, managed by his former Dortmund colleague Jürgen Klopp.[12] The following April, he was hired at AFC Ajax to fill the director of football position left vacant for over a year by Marc Overmars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sven_Mislintat
He never had experience in strategic decision management, he never had experiences in assessing youth, he never had experienced with coaches other than SAF's, he never had experience with data science and performance analysis
In his defence many technical director are just ex-players but they're working in a well drilled well oiled machine and probably have impressed the higher ups with their presentation. I can't say Fletcher fills me with confidence. Judging from our purchases most of them are extremely bad purchases to the point where we spent 50M and not having a clue where to play him since day 1 (DVB)
For comparison purposes : Sven Mislintat is Ajax's Technical director. Bellow are his experiences
Born in Kamen, North Rhine-Westphalia, Mislintat is a graduate of Ruhr University Bochum.[1] He qualified as a football coach in 2011.[3]
Mislintat went from being an analyst to being chief scout at Borussia Dortmund in the Bundesliga in 2006. The team, which had been saved from bankruptcy a year earlier, changed its recruitment from making big-money transfers to signing and developing young players. His signings included Polish striker Robert Lewandowski in 2010, Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang as his replacement in 2014, Japanese second division winger Shinji Kagawa, young French forward Ousmane Dembélé and FC Bayern Munich II defender Mats Hummels; all performed well at Dortmund and several were sold for significant profits.[4] Dembélé joined from Stade Rennais F.C. for €15 million in 2016 and was sold to FC Barcelona a year later for €105 million.[5]
In November 2017, Mislintat left Borussia Dortmund for Arsenal. He said that he had been looking for an exit from the Westfalenstadion since January 2016, when he was banished from the club's training ground and inner circle by manager Thomas Tuchel, over an argument about signing Óliver Torres from Atlético Madrid.[6] He remained at the Emirates Stadium until February 2019. He signed eight players, of which two were sold for small profits, resulting in a £103 million loss for the club. The largest loss was for Aubameyang, who followed him to Arsenal for £56 million and left for Barcelona for free.[7] In 2021, he defended all his signings in an interview with The Athletic.[8][9]
Mislintat returned to the Bundesliga as sporting director at VfB Stuttgart in April 2019.[10] He left in November 2022.[11] He was then linked to Liverpool, managed by his former Dortmund colleague Jürgen Klopp.[12] The following April, he was hired at AFC Ajax to fill the director of football position left vacant for over a year by Marc Overmars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sven_Mislintat
So lets say you're ETH, there are two players you want and can get.
Would you say no don't sign them because they're going to be injured for the first 3-5 games?
Because it's a totally different role to the one operated by Mislintat at Ajax. Fletcher does a bit of coaching across the first team and U23s/academy and helps the young players integrated into first team training to adapt because he's a familiar face. He also mentors them as someone who has come through the academy himself and been trained in the highest values of professionalism under Ferguson. He is also there to give his opinions on young talent to ETH.
He's more than qualified for that role and I believe all the criticism he gets is due to a misunderstanding of what he actually does. He doesn't have that much power. I'm very comfortable having him in the position he's in - he was a super pro and is a bright man.
Well done. You gave one example of a guy who went to Arsenal and did nothing of importance as they continued to be rubbish.
Name me all these other great clubs with world class Tech directors. Who’s at Milan, Atletico, PSG.
Maybe we should get the guys at Chelsea there club is ran really well these days.
When people start realising that a clubs ethos is set from the top maybe they would stop worrying about what’s happening in the middle.