Definitely both. It's not like the same team of people will be doing both projects.
Manchester United officials looking at plans to expand Old Trafford capacity to 88,000 | Scrapped?
- Thread starter KM
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
It's long overdue. Both the stadium and facilities need some investment.
Look @GE, I think Old Trafford needs an overhaul as much as anyone, starting with straightening out the old canter-levered roof which will be a huge deal for us and will give the stadium a completely new look and feel.
But it's really not "shocking" when you break the clubs you listed down and consider as you wrote yourself, that Old Trafford was last expanded/renovated in parts just 12 years ago. Many of the teams below had stadiums unfit for purpose (Arsenal) or turning into scrapheaps (Barca).
1. Manchester United (expansion 2005)
2. Barcelona (renovation 2017 - 2021) - Considering the current state of Camp Nou, it is in desperate need of this renovation.
3. Real Madrid (renovation 2018 - 2021) - Fair point but not started yet
4. Bayern Munich (new stadium) - Old Stadium was council owned, had a fecking running track around it and was shared with 1860 Munich.
5. Man City (new stadium) - Council owned
6. Arsenal (new stadium) - London's biggest club, their Old Stadium had a measly capacity 38,419 and no possibility of planning permission for improvement.
7. Chelsea (renovation 2019 - 2022) - Fair point
8. Liverpool (renovated 2014 - 2017) - Hardly, it' still shite, they renovated one stand. The stadium is not remotely as good as OT and still has a capacity way way too low for their fanbase as well as some of the worst restricted view seats you could imagine.
9. Juventus (new stadium) - Old Stadium was council owned, shared with Torino and had a running track around it. Council decided to demolish it giving both clubs no choice. Juve's new stadium, at just 40,000 ish capacity is a lame excuse for a stadium for Italy's biggest club.
10. Tottenham (new stadium) - Nearly a fair point but Old Stadium was too small and in much worse condition than OT.
11. PSG (renovated 2013 - 2016) - Meh... it's still a tiny little pointless thing. OT even in current state is way better.
12. Dortmund (renovated 2006, updated 2016) - Fair point
13. Milan (renovation planned - date TBC) - "planned" yes, but that means nothing.
14. Atletico (new stadium) - Fair point.
15. West Ham (new stadium) - Council house, most fans not happy with it.
So of the 15 mentioned, many were drastically in need of a renovation or new stadium, United aren't, it should be under consideration and I'm sure it is. Only 4 of the 15 teams are fair points imo.
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The feck are West Ham doing in that group!?I assume you know the budgatery details when you answered here?
Remember the sixties as a lad getting the steam train from Central Station to the ground. Would go in the scoreboard end, Stretford end paddock (admission two and six) or what is now the Sir Fergy stand before they built the new stand. The Sir Matt Busby Way was Warwick Road then. As in the song "walking down Warwick road ...." After some games your feet didn't touch the ground going over the railway bridge, on your way home after the sold out all ticket matches. They used to cram them in then with a capacity crowd of around 57000 (if I'm not mistaken). The stadium now is magnificent in all it's beauty. Being a Mancunian you cannot be more than proud seeing it from a distance standing there in an area close to the city riddled with industrial history. Not to mention it was nearly brought to the ground due to the bombings. It would be the icing on the cake if they could add on to the east stand which would give it a more uniform look in parity with the rest of the building. Not the least it would of course add on to the capacity which is definately needed. We will always get the crowds no matter what!
The issues that I see with the ground now aren't so much capacity, though it would be nice to see that tackled, as the overall tiredness and awkwardness of the place.
Some of those stands are very high, and it's only when you go to a newer stadium you remember the concept of escalators. The new search rules have exacerbated a problem with how the stadium access/queuing works and if you're one of those people unlucky enough to have their ticket fail at the turnstile, you've got another queue at the ticket office, and another one for the repeat search.
The toilets, concourse, refreshments are all dowdy. I don't have a problem with legroom myself, but I can see why some do, and some of the seat layouts are pretty grim particularly as you go up higher or into the quadrants. It just looks like what it is, a place that doesn't get much infrastructure investment (same with the website etc) and hasn't done in a while. Like other places where things get patched back to functional instead of renovated, eventually it catches up with them and as with the changes needed for disabled supporters the cobbled together solutions aren't that elegant.
Some of those stands are very high, and it's only when you go to a newer stadium you remember the concept of escalators. The new search rules have exacerbated a problem with how the stadium access/queuing works and if you're one of those people unlucky enough to have their ticket fail at the turnstile, you've got another queue at the ticket office, and another one for the repeat search.
The toilets, concourse, refreshments are all dowdy. I don't have a problem with legroom myself, but I can see why some do, and some of the seat layouts are pretty grim particularly as you go up higher or into the quadrants. It just looks like what it is, a place that doesn't get much infrastructure investment (same with the website etc) and hasn't done in a while. Like other places where things get patched back to functional instead of renovated, eventually it catches up with them and as with the changes needed for disabled supporters the cobbled together solutions aren't that elegant.
I like Old Trafford and even if it was falling apart I wouldn't care.
If we had to play out of a mucky field I wouldn't care once the money is being spent on the squad.
If we had to play out of a mucky field I wouldn't care once the money is being spent on the squad.
This.
Make it bigger? Definitely.
Prettier? I couldn’t give a shit.
Let’s get some players in who are actually top draw before we worry about renovating the shitters.
I do feel that the current owners haven’t invested in enough assets for the long term, despite the great work they do getting commercial deals.
Old Trafford should’ve been expanded or refurbished years ago and the lack of a Manchester United women’s football team is also looking more backwards by the day. The youth system facilities were also lagging behind although this may have been updated now? Maybe someone can enlighten me on that...
I guess it’s is a symptom of us having to clear the debt over the last 5-10 years to the manageable level it is at now. The current focus does need to be on investing in players due to the lack of player investment in Fergies final few years while he was clearing the debt. The lasting legacy of the Glazer take over!
Old Trafford should’ve been expanded or refurbished years ago and the lack of a Manchester United women’s football team is also looking more backwards by the day. The youth system facilities were also lagging behind although this may have been updated now? Maybe someone can enlighten me on that...
I guess it’s is a symptom of us having to clear the debt over the last 5-10 years to the manageable level it is at now. The current focus does need to be on investing in players due to the lack of player investment in Fergies final few years while he was clearing the debt. The lasting legacy of the Glazer take over!
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Ahhh, it was a tweet from Samuel Luckhurst about the South Stand leaking after torrential rain and that it is long over due for a revamp/expansion.
Woody was probably knocked back by the Glazers when he asked for the money, so he's spent the last few nights on top of the roof with a Black & Decker drill.
How the feck could it be nearly a billion? You can start from scratch and build a state of the art stadium for that.
Arsenal’s Emirates stadium cost around £400m and I’m sure Spurs new stadium was projected around £500m.
Arsenal’s Emirates stadium cost around £400m and I’m sure Spurs new stadium was projected around £500m.
Bayern's Allianz Arena cost €340 Million, that includes financing costs.
Perhaps a more modest expansion should happen if it really costs 750 million to refurbish OT which I guess means a new roof and other things. The quadrants cost 42 million and Liverpool recently added 8000 to the main stand for 116 million. A smaller second tier in the south stand with the corners filled in should bring at least 8000 seats at the lowest for a reasonable sum including building over the track.
It's a shame they didn't add a third tier to the Stretford End and make it a feature of the ground when they had the chance instead of just mirroring the other end.
Perhaps a more modest expansion should happen if it really costs 750 million to refurbish OT which I guess means a new roof and other things. The quadrants cost 42 million and Liverpool recently added 8000 to the main stand for 116 million. A smaller second tier in the south stand with the corners filled in should bring at least 8000 seats at the lowest for a reasonable sum including building over the track.
It's a shame they didn't add a third tier to the Stretford End and make it a feature of the ground when they had the chance instead of just mirroring the other end.
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I can't imagine that the current design of the ground lends itself well to any sort of redevelopment that doesn't involve tearing down entire sections of the existing stadium and completely rebuilding them. It would be mammoth task, they'd probably have to consider renting the Emptihad for a year to facilitate it.
A billion??? That would've meant we were thinking of knocking the whole place down and starting again.
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Overspending on shite players so it's fitting we'd overspend on expanding as well. Probably feck that up and have to re-exoand in a few years again.
I'm kidding btw. This is likely nonsense. What's the source? Oh, yeah.
I'm kidding btw. This is likely nonsense. What's the source? Oh, yeah.
I’ve seen reports that the new Spurs stadium is costing between £800M and £1B.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/tottenham-reveal-new-stadium-costs-9983339
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5139907/Bill-new-Tottenham-stadium-soars-1bn.html
Keep playing like Stoke and well not be able to fill it at current capacity.
Bazzinga
Bazzinga
How on earth it can somehow cost a projected bil to renovate one stand i’ll never know. What’s it being made out of? Diamond encrusted steal beams and gold plated bricks? Heck seems like the price for a top of the art modern stadium is a bil but nah for us to renovate and extend “a stand” 1 bil.
I know there are issues like moving the railway line and relocating residents but still 1 bil!!!
I know there are issues like moving the railway line and relocating residents but still 1 bil!!!
If these reports have a degree of truth to them, we may as well build a new stadium as the cost won’t be to far off redeveloping the Sir Bobby Charlton Stand.
I’m in favour of building a new stadium similar to Wembley or the AT&T Stadium
I’m in favour of building a new stadium similar to Wembley or the AT&T Stadium
That'd be monumentally shit. Really don't get the love for soulless, new stadiums. Old Trafford is part of our identity and past and needs to remain part of our future.
People rave about the Allianz arena, but the outside visual aside, inside it looks like a rather forgettable, grey bowl. I'd rather we just gave people a picture of the Birmingham Selfridges building as they entered the ground and keep the stadium we've got if that's what floats their boat.
The problem is if it's £750m this year, it'll be £1bn next year, and £2bn the year after. Construction costs seem to be massively increasing with each project. I expect this will never be done.
But those numbers are utter bollocks though. No way refurbishment of a single stand of a football stadium in Manchester will cost £750m or even close when you have entire stadiums being built in central London for around the same price.
I get what you are saying but from going to Old Trafford last year it’s obvious the ground has now become outdated. The quadrants look ugly, there were even weeds growing out of the Sir Bobby Charlton Stand by the tunnel. For a club such as ours I think we should be looking at a stadium that’s fit for the future.
Now that the Glazers have purchased land around Old Trafford I think that is a option they should consider
It needs a refurb, sure. And we can debate whether or not enough has been done to keep it up to spec. But for the love of God let's not get a shiny-shit new stadium that'll have all the unique identity and soul as flat-pack furniture.
If we went for the refurb job it would have to be level all the way around, the quads redesigned, the roof raised, new red seats to replace the fading ones. Sounds an awful lot when we can raise the funds to go down the Tottenham route.
It won't. Any building of that cost will gather the top contractors from all over Europe on a tender list because they'll all want the media exposure that comes with it. Therefore, the would bid lower than lumping on a huge margin. Cost of course are going up but more so for skilled labour and that's just simply down to the fact those skilled labourers had to cut the bollox off their price to survive the recession. Materials don't jump massively.
Also not a hope it would cost £1bn like the article states.
Source: Quantity Surveyor.
I don't think the stadium looks dated I think it looks.....unique. I'm fine with that. Who knows how early to mid 2000s version of 'modern' is going to look in 20 years time. We might gaze upon the Emirates in 2038 with the same disdain we have for some 50s and 60s architecture now.
More cynically, the stadium is a huge part of the 'brand' too. It's iconic not only because of who we are, but also because of what it is. It's an iconic stadium because of its age, it's history and the fact in an era of new stadia, it looks unique now too.
More cynically, the stadium is a huge part of the 'brand' too. It's iconic not only because of who we are, but also because of what it is. It's an iconic stadium because of its age, it's history and the fact in an era of new stadia, it looks unique now too.
Perhaps... though I work on large infra schemes myself and I can pretty much guarantee a claims culture from the contractor so the final bill will be a lot higher than the bid and let's be honest if you look at large stadium builds in the uk how many come in on time and on budget...
Nevermind large stadiums, how many big jobs finish on time and in budget
.There was a new motorway built near me in Ireland, it was a 3 or 4 year program that was finished 3 months early and they celebrated it like it was the world cup.
What are the chances of there being a lot of variations on a stadium build though? The majority of them are pretty much a precast structure and frame.
Completely agree. We shouldn't be so critical of the stadium; it's not our fault that other clubs have been forced to rebuild or simply given brand-new stadiums by the local authority.
We do need to invest though. Replace the South Stand with a completely new structure and we're golden.
The insides feel sooo dated though.
Am torn between tearing it down (lol) and a complete utter refurb.
Am torn between tearing it down (lol) and a complete utter refurb.
I like it as it is, don't really like the glass buildings.
Build a new one with more traditional architecture then?
Nah, allow that. OT looks boss as it is. Doesn't look out of place near the Quays
About fecking time.