Manchester United to resume search for technical director

Revaulx

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There's not a single bit of credible information that says otherwise, none of the former managers, not even Mourinho, has complained about it.
Of course they haven’t complained; they’re all bound by compromise agreements and don’t want to endanger their huge payoffs.

So why did they buy players who were manifestly unsuited to their styles of football (Moyes: Mata; Mourinho: Mkhitaryan)? Was it simply because they were idiots? Or because they weren’t their choice?

I’m not excluding the possibility that they were idiots by the way.
 

Johan07

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Having a DoF then would have been paramount to keep things moving forward once Fergie retired. Having a DoF wouldn’t have precluded Fergie from being involved it would have taken items off his plate.

So a DoF would be necessary for the long term health beyond Fergie’s reign.
Ferguson would never have accepted that. He would have been out of Old Trafford at once. You just have to read one of his books to understand that. For him it was essential that the manager was dictating everything.
There is no way that he would have accepted to work under a DoF, which is why your argument means that he would have been out of the club.
And its a very big and retrospective ask of the club to go against the traditions that we had until then and the success we still had until Sir Alex quit; when employing the first manager to replace him.
It was quite logical not to change anything up. Especially since it came out of the blue that Gill and Ferguson were leaving at once. We basically just switched Ed for Gill and Moyes for Ferguson and thought that it would work. And tbf, back then it was the logical thing to do. And absolutely no-one was crying for a DoF then.
Remember "The chosen one" banner?
The DoF thing first came up under LvG (who wanted one installed) and its perfectably logical to think that the Glazers and Woodward agreed with it. Its more of an American setup anyways. FSG tried the same with Liverpool and had the same problems with Rodgers not wanting to work with Edwards.
Its also completely logical to assume that our Board of Advisors was not as happy with that plan. Ferguson, Gill and Sir Bobby that is. Its just not the hierarchy they want at United.
That far I dont blame the club for their actions and can kind of appreciate that they tried to be progressive in face of a tradition that is not that easy to break.
My big problem is the decision to appoint Mourinho who obviously didnt want to work under a DoF as much as Ferguson and Rodgers didnt. That the manager controlled everything was why he wanted to come to United to begin with. But that was one part of the price with hiring Mourinho.
So the club took a step back and put the DoF-thing on hold during the Mourinho-reign. IMO it was the wrong thing to do; as was the appointment to begin with for more reasons than this.
Im for a DoF now as well, even if I dont think its going to be this miraculous solution and we will suddenly be able to buy better players cheaper, etc.
But my point is that it also a bit thick to just look at this in retrospect and cry about that the club "should have" done this or that; when a) there is obviously strong powers at the club that dont like that type of organisation and there is if not good at least fair explanations why it has not happened yet, and b) you dont know how that would have turned out anyways, and c) no-one even started to cry about a DoF until results have been starting to fade.
 

UncleBob

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Of course they haven’t complained; they’re all bound by compromise agreements and don’t want to endanger their huge payoffs.

So why did they buy players who were manifestly unsuited to their styles of football (Moyes: Mata; Mourinho: Mkhitaryan)? Was it simply because they were idiots? Or because they weren’t their choice?

I’m not excluding the possibility that they were idiots by the way.
The agreements they sign is more about making sure that none of them air their dirty laundry in the press, but we've still seen Moyes talk about transfers at United, Van Gaal talk about his disappointment on how things happened and Mourinho himself is the best indication that there hasn't been any forced transfers. If Woodward signed a player against his will, he'd have made the public well aware of it at the time, just as he made the public well aware that he was unhappy about not getting all the players he wanted.

Moyes didn't have a style of football, he kept changing it every week, possession football, counter attack, narrow, extreme width with crosses. Our attacking football was dire when Mata, who had been one of Chelsea's best attacking players, became available on the market.

Not sure why people think Mkhi wasn't suited to Mourinho's vision of counter attacks, but do fill us in.
 

SweetRightFoot

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Signing VDS as DoF could potentially be our signing of the season, unless James keeps scoring with 80% of his shots.

buuuut I've got a feeling it will fall through, VDS will get cold feet, or have a look at the financial books and then get snapped up by someone else while Dead Woodward will keep clinging to his egotistical fantasy football ploy.
 

UncleBob

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This just helps to prove my point, how else do you dress up spending 800m pounds and having an average position of sixth if not as a massive failure in recruitment?
Not really. There's several sides of the argument. Our willingness to spend money over the years clearly indicates that there's no reason to believe that a potential DOF would have his hands tied behind his back, or so to speak, as the club has been more than willing to back the various managers over the years. That a large % of the money spent has been a waste is a separate point, but there's rarely a guarantee anyway, and everyone is already in agreement that we need organizational changes

As for confusing personal opinion with facts, well every former manager has misgivings about the club's dealings in the market. From LVG's "I thought United could get anyone they wanted" to Mourinho's very public meltdown when the club failed to back him adequately. Yes we have signed expensive players but have they been what the team needs, have they contributed to the club's success or could we have done better? Our position wrt the money spent says otherwise, right now Ole wanted a major clean out (which can't be done in one summer) and already said that we needed to replace Lukaku whilst we all agree that we needed to replace Herrera; all of which wasn't done. How is that not a failure in recruitment?
A famous junkie once said "you can't always get what you want". You're cherry picking, Van Gaal said the following:

Did they not take your advice?

I thought always Manchester United can buy every player because they have a lot of power. Seemingly a few players were not reachable for Manchester United. I cannot understand but it was like that.


He's not mentioning any names, so it's not easy to say what the problem was, but it's pretty fecking common that there's always going to be players that are unavailable for one reason or another. Liverpool were initially after Depay, coped well without him, Guardiola wanted Sanchez, Guardiola wanted Mahrez earlier. Tottenham barely signed anyone and Poch was livid about it, still coped with it and got on with his job.

Mourinho's interpretation of the club failing to back him is odd, he was heavily backed until the point where the club lost faith in him. Overall he has very little to complain about.

We didn't sign a replacement for Herrera and we didn't sign a replacement for Lukaku, doesn't automatically mean it's a failure in recruitment. Was it a failure in recruitment when Liverpool failed to sign Van Dijk and didn't go for anyone else until they got who they wanted ?
 

Alabaster Codify7

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Not gonna happen as far as I'm concerned. All hot air to convince the fans better times might lie ahead, as usual.
 

Luke1995

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Basically that's what the genius that is Ed has done, can't jump over his ego and self promotion. Nothing much will change while he is controlling the direction of the club for the blood suckers that are the Glazers.
And that makes me wonder, who the hell signed Ed in the first place ?
 

Eric's Seagull

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Don't think Edwin Van Der Sar will come here as Director of Football/Technical Director as he does the same job as Woodward does here. I think Woodward is talking a load of crap and don't think he would like to share any of the power he has. Would like to take him here to do Woodward's job.

Only way I could see him wanting to come would to be accept the challenge of building the club great again and then going down in history as playing a massive part in doing so.
 

red thru&thru

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Don't think Edwin Van Der Sar will come here as Director of Football/Technical Director as he does the same job as Woodward does here. I think Woodward is talking a load of crap and don't think he would like to share any of the power he has. Would like to take him here to do Woodward's job.

Only way I could see him wanting to come would to be accept the challenge of building the club great again and then going down in history as playing a massive part in doing so.
He did an interview in April with Johnathan Northcroft, and he was very complimentary on the job Ed does. He alluded to the fact that he would be potentially open to work with Ed.

From Edwin's pov, he'd get to work with someone very knowledgeable on the business sides of things which would help him, and would apply his vast knowledge on the football side.

The only problem is, Glazer's and Ed have a great thing going on at the moment, in terms of the cash cowing United. More than likely, Edwin would want things to change, which would lead to less dividends to the Glazer's...that is the biggest blocker here.
 

Eric's Seagull

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He did an interview in April with Johnathan Northcroft, and he was very complimentary on the job Ed does. He alluded to the fact that he would be potentially open to work with Ed.

From Edwin's pov, he'd get to work with someone very knowledgeable on the business sides of things which would help him, and would apply his vast knowledge on the football side.

The only problem is, Glazer's and Ed have a great thing going on at the moment, in terms of the cash cowing United. More than likely, Edwin would want things to change, which would lead to less dividends to the Glazer's...that is the biggest blocker here.
I was unaware of that interview and will have to look. Thanks for letting me know.

Your point in bold is what concerns me. I think that the Glazer's wouldn't give Edwin the freedom to do his job as he wants if he wants to change things, as they are making so much money the way that things are and this could lead to conflict.
 

romufc

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Fast forward 12 months.. Manutd continue the search for DoF.
 

red thru&thru

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I was unaware of that interview and will have to look. Thanks for letting me know.

Your point in bold is what concerns me. I think that the Glazer's wouldn't give Edwin the freedom to do his job as he wants if he wants to change things, as they are making so much money the way that things are and this could lead to conflict.
Yep, that indeed is the problem. Any DoF worth their salt will want all the power (within reason). Like Tixi over at City.
 

NickSantigo

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Surely it's in their(Glaziers) interest to have a DoF who can help identify talent early before their stock explodes (e.g De Light & De Jong after we played them in 2017 Europa final). If DoF has a vision of the type of player we go for, type of manager and style of play we should be able to sign players regardless of who is managing the team. How many players did Juve sign before Sarri was appointed?

From a financial point of view it's in the Glaziers interest for United to be reaching the knockouts of the CL year after year

Finally if Ed was serious about this role advertise it. We are Manchester United. Let the candidates come to us. Then interview them and make a choice based on their vision, experience and knowledge of the game
 

snowkarl

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Surely it's in their(Glaziers) interest to have a DoF who can help identify talent early before their stock explodes (e.g De Light & De Jong after we played them in 2017 Europa final). If DoF has a vision of the type of player we go for, type of manager and style of play we should be able to sign players regardless of who is managing the team. How many players did Juve sign before Sarri was appointed?

From a financial point of view it's in the Glaziers interest for United to be reaching the knockouts of the CL year after year

Finally if Ed was serious about this role advertise it. We are Manchester United. Let the candidates come to us. Then interview them and make a choice based on their vision, experience and knowledge of the game
We already have scouts.

A DoF will do nothing for our club, let's be honest. We sign players based on marketability rather than talent or a unified vision and it will be the case regardless of who is choosing between targets because it comes down from the top. It's how we've remained at the top of the revenue charts despite sub par sporting performance.
 

POF

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We already have scouts.

A DoF will do nothing for our club, let's be honest. We sign players based on marketability rather than talent or a unified vision and it will be the case regardless of who is choosing between targets because it comes down from the top. It's how we've remained at the top of the revenue charts despite sub par sporting performance.
Like who? Fred? Dalot? Daniel James? Massive worldwide marketing potential I'm sure.
 

red thru&thru

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Like who? Fred? Dalot? Daniel James? Massive worldwide marketing potential I'm sure.
Marketing appeal of the player was the approach for a while. In recent years however, it seems they've gone to the minimal spend route. Almost as if they're setting up to sell us.
 

red_de_pologne

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we won't have any better idea than VDS, so I'd be happy to give him the job

Marketing appeal of the player was the approach for a while. In recent years however, it seems they've gone to the minimal spend route. Almost as if they're setting up to sell us.
Fred definitely doesn't fit your narrative here
 

SteveJ

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'Robert Ballard to resume search for Manchester United technical director'
 

Revaulx

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Marketing appeal of the player was the approach for a while. In recent years however, it seems they've gone to the minimal spend route. Almost as if they're setting up to sell us.
Which players? Sanchez possibly, but that was also getting one up on City. Pogba? He definitely had marketing appeal, but maybe Sentimental Ed’s main objective was being seen as a hero righting a historic wrong #pogback. Di Maria and Lukaku were big names (and fees :eek:) but hardly glamour figures. The rest? Nah...

And if they are now on the minimal spend route, why a record fee for Maguire?

It’s much more likely to be simple incompetence along with a lack of any sort of strategic thinking.
 

red thru&thru

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Which players? Sanchez possibly, but that was also getting one up on City. Pogba? He definitely had marketing appeal, but maybe Sentimental Ed’s main objective was being seen as a hero righting a historic wrong #pogback. Di Maria and Lukaku were big names (and fees :eek:) but hardly glamour figures. The rest? Nah...

And if they are now on the minimal spend route, why a record fee for Maguire?

It’s much more likely to be simple incompetence along with a lack of any sort of strategic thinking.
You've just mentioned 4 players. There was also Zlatan and the countless players Ed went after and missed out on. Jose within himself was a marketing tool.

Di Maria just won the CL. Was motm if I remember correctly?! Falcao was another 'big' marketing signing.
 

Zlatattack

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I'll do it.

If appointed i promise to;
  • Read the Caf for your expert opinion.
  • Harrass Ed Woodward until he leaves the club.
  • Engage in hardcore muppetry.
 

Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær

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Throwing my hat in as well.

Under my stewardship as DoF we'll go back to the halcyon days of Glazerdom. feck off the fans (especially MUST), raise ticket prices every season and saddle the club with debt while winning a few trophies and enriching the lazy gadabout family that owns us.
 

romufc

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I'll do it.

If appointed i promise to;
  • Read the Caf for your expert opinion.
  • Harrass Ed Woodward until he leaves the club.
  • Engage in hardcore muppetry.
Sold. I don't think you could go wrong reading the caf.

Also dont forget you will have to spend club record or you will be classified as saving money.
 

Eckers99

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Not really. There's several sides of the argument. Our willingness to spend money over the years clearly indicates that there's no reason to believe that a potential DOF would have his hands tied behind his back, or so to speak, as the club has been more than willing to back the various managers over the years. That a large % of the money spent has been a waste is a separate point, but there's rarely a guarantee anyway, and everyone is already in agreement that we need organizational changes



A famous junkie once said "you can't always get what you want". You're cherry picking, Van Gaal said the following:

Did they not take your advice?

I thought always Manchester United can buy every player because they have a lot of power. Seemingly a few players were not reachable for Manchester United. I cannot understand but it was like that.


He's not mentioning any names, so it's not easy to say what the problem was, but it's pretty fecking common that there's always going to be players that are unavailable for one reason or another. Liverpool were initially after Depay, coped well without him, Guardiola wanted Sanchez, Guardiola wanted Mahrez earlier. Tottenham barely signed anyone and Poch was livid about it, still coped with it and got on with his job.

Mourinho's interpretation of the club failing to back him is odd, he was heavily backed until the point where the club lost faith in him. Overall he has very little to complain about.

We didn't sign a replacement for Herrera and we didn't sign a replacement for Lukaku, doesn't automatically mean it's a failure in recruitment. Was it a failure in recruitment when Liverpool failed to sign Van Dijk and didn't go for anyone else until they got who they wanted ?
Which was, what, 5 or 6 months after they extended his contract?
 

Zlatattack

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Sold. I don't think you could go wrong reading the caf.

Also dont forget you will have to spend club record or you will be classified as saving money.
No problem. I am a bit of a radical though. Apparently Messi is available next season, going to try and sign him on a free, with a £100 million signing on bonus. That'll let people know we mean business!
 

romufc

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No problem. I am a bit of a radical though. Apparently Messi is available next season, going to try and sign him on a free, with a £100 million signing on bonus. That'll let people know we mean business!
Messi only? I heard Mbappe is available too?

I also read some experts want Koulibaly to replace Lindelof because he lost a header.
 

Revaulx

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You've just mentioned 4 players. There was also Zlatan and the countless players Ed went after and missed out on. Jose within himself was a marketing tool.

Di Maria just won the CL. Was motm if I remember correctly?! Falcao was another 'big' marketing signing.
Hmmm. Not convinced.

They were nearly all shite, whatever the motivation for signing them.