Manchester United view sidelining Marcus Rashford as key to cultural reboot

noodlehair said:
On an individual level I still don't think this was the wrong decision and it's on Rashford if he doesn't put the work in to change the manager's mind. He needed this ultimatum really or nothing would change.

On a team level though it doesn't make sense to pick on one player when nearly everyone is performing so poorly. Others might apply themselves a bit better in training but it's about the end result on the pitch.

Also we keep being told the players don't have time to train, so I'm a bit lost on what the decision to single out one person and leave them out in the cold, but not do anything with anyone else is based on.

We have players who repeatedly perform appallingly and seem to either give up or lose their head, and Amorim keeps picking them.
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You are assuming that maybe all he has done is half arse it in training maybe that's only what Amorim has said for the sack of avoiding a lot more drama. Amorim looks like a very good man manager he wouldn't come down hard on Rashford like this for nothing.

What's also clear is that Rashford and Casemiro are being phased out due to their performances not matching their wages. They would have been identified as players to get rid of to create financial room for new players.

No sane management would accept what we re getting out of Mount, Shaw, Rashford, Antony and Casemiro for the wages they are getting and not try to do something about it.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Ah yes. A famously stingy business man comes up with a cunning plan to use a journalist to devalue one of the most expensive assets at his football club. You must be onto something here!

The notion that it’s in the interest of anyone at the club to deliberately spread false rumours about Rashford being a long term indisciplined waster is so fecking dumb.
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It wouldn't be the first time the club briefs someone they trust from the media, so yes, it's believable. It wouldn't be the first time someone has been bullied out of a job either. The fact that you are so cocky about this is funny though, like you know the answer.
 
Mickson said:
It wouldn't be the first time the club briefs someone they trust from the media, so yes, it's believable. It wouldn't be the first time someone has been bullied out of a job either. The fact that you are so cocky about this is funny though, like you know the answer.
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I’m not cocky. I’m just using basic common sense. As I said, the idea that anyone at the football club would want to spread false rumours about Rashford being a long term badly disciplined footballer doesn’t make an ounce of sense. Think about it.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It’s not exactly a surprise though, is it? When a footballer gets exposed, publicly, for poor discipline as often as Rashford has been in the last few years then it’s fairly obvious that’s only the tip of the iceberg.
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There have been a couple occasions where he was out partying (not the only player to do this) and one where he was late for training (which he apologised for and ETH said he responded to well) but in the grand scheme of things, these really weren't any other reports of him being unprofessional. ETH and Jose weren't shy about criticising players and they didn't generally say much bad about Rashford's attitude. Jose in particular certainly wouldn't have hidden it since he was calling out players left right and centre by the end.

I think Amorim's been told the club want to sell Rashford and Casemiro. Rashford then went public about wanting to leave. Neither are being selected despite Case seemingly doing nothing wrong. Evans similarly isn't getting gametime or even in the squad, probably because Amorim doesn't see him in his long term plans.

I don't have an issue with Amorim planning around players who'll be here long term, but I don't necessarily believe that Rashford's done something unprofessional to warrant being dropped from the squad aside from the interview (many here seem to think he's done something else), which given the timing of him being banished seems the obvious reason.

People should think a bit more about why stories like these seemingly come out now vs before if the problems really existed for that long. Calling people idiots for thinking it's a briefing is well out of order. Even if it isn't true, it's certainly not an absurd suggestion. Shows no understanding of how and why spin doctors, propaganda and pr are used.
 
Dazzmondo said:
There have been a couple occasions where he was out partying (not the only player to do this) and one where he was late for training (which he apologised for and ETH said he responded to well) but in the grand scheme of things, these really weren't any other reports of him being unprofessional. ETH and Jose weren't shy about criticising players and they didn't generally say much bad about Rashford's attitude. Jose in particular certainly wouldn't have hidden it since he was calling out players left right and centre by the end.

I think Amorim's been told the club want to sell Rashford and Casemiro. Rashford then went public about wanting to leave. Neither are being selected despite Case seemingly doing nothing wrong. Evans similarly isn't getting gametime or even in the squad, probably because Amorim doesn't see him in his long term plans.

I don't have an issue with Amorim planning around players who'll be here long term, but I don't necessarily believe that Rashford's done something unprofessional to warrant being dropped from the squad aside from the interview (many here seem to think he's done something else), which given the timing of him being banished seems the obvious reason.

People should think a bit more about why stories like these seemingly come out now vs before if the problems really existed for that long. Calling people idiots for thinking it's a briefing is well out of order. Even if it isn't true, it's certainly not an absurd suggestion. Shows no understanding of how and why spin doctors, propaganda and pr are used.
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If the club want rid, they want rid. But they will absolutely want as much money as possible for him. So spreading fake rumours about him being a waster under multiple managers would literally be shooting themselves in the foot. The whole point of spin and PR is to use the press for your own benefit. Not to make an expensive asset seem much less appealing for potential buyers. Come on, think about it.

Rumours in the press aside, there would also be absolutely no point in Amorim pretending he’s dropping him for a lack of discipline if that wasn’t the case. Again, it’s just wiping money off his value. From the club’s perspective if they just want him off the payroll the angle from Amorim (and whatever journalists they want to use) is that he’s a hardworking, disciplined and extremely talented player who unfortunately won’t fit into the specific system the new manager wants to use. Unfortunately they’ve ended up in a much messier situation, with the truth behind his underperforming coming out. Not ideal but it is what it is. They have to roll with this now.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
If the club want rid, they want rid. But they will absolutely want as much money as possible for him. So spreading fake rumours about him being a waster under multiple managers would literally be shooting themselves in the foot. The whole point of spin and PR is to use the press for your own benefit. Not to make an expensive asset seem much less appealing for potential buyers. Come on, think about it.

Rumours in the press aside, there would also be absolutely no point in Amorim pretending he’s dropping him for a lack of discipline if that wasn’t the case. Again, it’s just wiping money off his value. From the club’s perspective if they just want him off the payroll the party line from Amorim (and whatever journalists they want to use) is that he’s a hardworking, disciplined and extremely talented player who unfortunately won’t fit into the specific system the new manager wants to use.
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You're assuming all the fans want Rashford gone but there are many who don't agree with him being sold or dropped, especially considering we've been significantly worse since Rashford was dropped. Briefing that Rashford's unprofessional potentially reduces the fan pressure on Amorim to start Rashford while also justifying INEOS' decision to sell him. This briefing isn't going to impact the clubs already interested in him. If they were interested, they still will be. Certainly he won't have any issues finding a Saudi club even if a European club isn't prepared to pay his wages. I think you're looking at the wrong parties in this potential brief. There is clear benefit in relation to fan sentiment at a time where frankly Ratcliffe and INEOS are facing considerable backlash from the fanbase (rightly so)
 
Mickson said:
Isn't it obvious? He has a high salary and isn't really performing. Ratcliffe is counting every penny but you don't think he cares that Rashford is earning £300k a week? I was almost certain before that this is Ratcliffe all over but now that Mitten has come out, all of a sudden, he could've done this one year ago, three years ago, and said that all the managers have had problems with Rashford. OK!
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The new manager has had an issue with him immediately, the manager hand picked by INEOS. If he was performing great and Amorim was happy with him then do you think Ratcliffe would sell him to cut costs? No chance.
 
Dazzmondo said:
You're assuming all the fans want Rashford gone but there are many who don't agree with him being sold or dropped, especially considering we've been significantly worse since Rashford was dropped. Briefing that Rashford's unprofessional potentially reduces the fan pressure on Amorim to start Rashford while also justifying INEOS' decision to sell him. This briefing isn't going to impact the clubs already interested in him. If they were interested, they still will be. Certainly he won't have any issues finding a Saudi club even if a European club isn't prepared to pay his wages. I think you're looking at the wrong parties in this potential brief. There is clear benefit in relation to fan sentiment at a time where frankly Ratcliffe and INEOS are facing considerable backlash from the fanbase (rightly so)
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And you’re assuming that Amorim will pick football teams based on what fans want. Which is as crazy as the club deciding to suddenly assassinate Rashford’s character right before putting him on the market.
 
It’s clear there have been issues with Rashford for some time, it’s no surprise these stories are coming out, I suspect someone like Mitten has been aware and chosen not to repeat them. I am sure Rashford has his side of the story as well and maybe has genuine reasons for complaints.

Putting all that aside you can’t have one of your tops earners being so ineffective and offering so little. You also can’t carry people who aren’t able to consistently work hard on the pitch. The club cannot afford to have so many high earners who contribute so little and they have to be moved on as efficiently as possible.

We really can’t be scared to lose or be too emotionally attached to players like Rashford because he isn’t that good or reliable and we already shit so let just move on.
 
Rumours he might be back in squad tonight due to shortage of numbers.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Ah yes. A famously stingy business man comes up with a cunning plan to use a journalist to devalue one of the most expensive assets at his football club. You must be onto something here!

The notion that it’s in the interest of anyone at the club to deliberately spread false rumours about Rashford being a long term indisciplined waster is so fecking dumb.
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Ouch :lol:
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
Pretty credible sources saying it now, hoping it's wrong but I do think he will be back unfortunately, more lives than a cat this guy
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Surely it’s in everyone’s interest that he contributes on the pitch again this season? Apart from the fact our other attackers are desperately goal shy, we need to put Rashford in the shop window.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Ah yes. A famously stingy business man comes up with a cunning plan to use a journalist to devalue one of the most expensive assets at his football club. You must be onto something here!

The notion that it’s in the interest of anyone at the club to deliberately spread false rumours about Rashford being a long term indisciplined waster is so fecking dumb.
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:lol:

You're correct. Sometimes things aren't that deep. It probably makes sense to part ways at this point and the club likely wouldn't deliberately devalue one of its most valuable assets.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
From the club’s perspective if they just want him off the payroll the angle from Amorim (and whatever journalists they want to use) is that he’s a hardworking, disciplined and extremely talented player who unfortunately won’t fit into the specific system the new manager wants to use. Unfortunately they’ve ended up in a much messier situation, with the truth behind his underperforming coming out
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Meanwhile, in the real world, on pitch performances suggest otherwise.

Would take some balls from a DoF to go to their board and pitch ‘ignore the performances, his club say he’s really hardworking and disciplined’.

I doubt his value is very high anyway, all this debate about protecting it is like arguing over the orange and strawberry creams at the bottom of the tub of Quality Street.
 
If we can't find a buyer in January, then it makes sense to transition him back to the team. We need goals and he can put himself in the shop window.

If he doesn't play for the rest of the season, then his value is just gonna deteriorate further.
 
Herschel Krustofsky said:
Meanwhile, in the real world, on pitch performances suggest otherwise.

Would take some balls from a DoF to go to their board and pitch ‘ignore the performances, his club say he’s really hardworking and disciplined’.

I doubt his value is very high anyway, all this debate about protecting it is like arguing over the orange and strawberry creams at the bottom of the tub of Quality Street.
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In a team where basically everyone is playing like shite it’s not inconceivable that there’s a club out there somewhere who thinks Rashford’s a victim of team dysfunction. God knows there’s a cohort of our own fans who think this. But that vague hope would be torpedoed if United succeed in this alleged media campaign to destroy his character and put all the blame for his poor performances on Rashford himself. Which is why it’s such a ludicrous theory.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Surely it’s in everyone’s interest that he contributes on the pitch again this season? Apart from the fact our other attackers are desperately goal shy, we need to put Rashford in the shop window.
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I do understand that point and believe there is some merit to it but I think Amorim undermines himself slightly as what if Rashford comes on as a sub and scores a hattrick and the club want to sell him? The average IQ fan will be in uproar about their "Starboy" and them wanting him to stay.
 
Him playing is in everyones interest to be fair. Both us to get value for him if he moves on and himself in showing other teams he can still do it.

It's pretty evident he is finished here unless he actually starts doing something and his PR team try to save the day, which is doubtful.

I just hope he's not continually boo'd unless he starts causing other issues.
 
I hope he plays and I hope he scores a hatrick. I don’t see any downside to that.

Helps us win hopefully
Helps us sell him if he wants gone
I’d like him to play and score every game untill he leaves, who wouldn’t
 
Many are saying it will demonstrate weakness on Rubin's part to include him tonight, weakness to me would be to cut off your nose to spite your face. If you don't fancy him and don't need him, don't pick him, if you do need him, even if it's from a numerical point of view, get him in there. He'll be gone shortly either way. No drama, it won't faze Amorim one bit.
 
You dont need mitten to know rashford is lazy. He's lazy on the match for 18 match, you think he's not lazy in training?

I can't believe so many people are defending the local lad who can't be bothered to run for 18 match let alone being paid 300k doing it.
 
He's been a major part of a dissapointing and mostly unsuccessful United period. Needs to be moved on for that reason alone. We need to be ruthless now with every player that has been here for more than two seasons..it's not happening with these guys.
 
Comes off the bench tonight to score the winner and says “take this, my final gift to you” while pointing at his head. We all wish him a fond farewell and it’s the end of this saga.
 
SuperMicky said:
Many are saying it will demonstrate weakness on Rubin's part to include him tonight, weakness to me would be to cut off your nose to spite your face. If you don't fancy him and don't need him, don't pick him, if you do need him, even if it's from a numerical point of view, get him in there. He'll be gone shortly either way. No drama, it won't faze Amorim one bit.
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Weak, he's definitely not weak.. Can't remember a manager post Fergie who has deleted a star player from the squad completely for multiple matches. He hasn't even warmed the bench. Meanwhile also sending a clear message to Ganacho and anyone else. Ganacho felt the wrath too.
 
I'm with Jamie Carragher on this one: everything about Rashford is so out of proportion, because he really isn't that good a player.

I'm prepared to accept that the club's instability, managerial churn, and almost constant state of permanent-crisis has had some contribution to the situation, all the more when the indications are that he's a still immature guy, with a wider family / hanger-on set-up that loves the brand, the bling and the lifestyle, but, in many ways has been a negative influence on his development.

I'm prepared to accept, he's had way too much too soon, has a big ego, got brattish and that what we all see on the pitch - the sullenness, the low workrate, the poor team player - is accompanied by his being a bad trainer, who believes the rules don't apply to him, and who has now been a long-time negative influence. All acerbated by his ludicrous PR operation.

Most of all, I'm prepared to accept that we've been seeing and hearing, particularly in Andy Mitten's interview, is part of a process, started by INEOS and probably enabled by what Amorim has seen - where the club is no longer prepared to be complicit in brand Marcus management, and has decided he needs to go.

It's unequivically the right decision.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Surely it’s in everyone’s interest that he contributes on the pitch again this season? Apart from the fact our other attackers are desperately goal shy, we need to put Rashford in the shop window.
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I think he's thought of as a better player when he's not playing though. Hopefully someone will be interested in him if they've not seen any recent performances and think that he's only not playing due to being unfairly frozen out.

I just think if he's given a place in the shop window it'll not be to the benefit of the team overall, even if it results in a few goals.
 
He should be treated like any other player, I don't get the panic about if he plays or not, did he kill someone?
If Amorim thinks it would benefit us, he should play, if not, no. Easy as that. It's not like Hojlund or Zirkzee are enjoing their best part of their careers right now.
 
Why are you lot so dramatic?

If he’s in the squad then it’s because the manager has decided he’s got something to offer. It’s that simple.

Amorim has had this stance from the start so I’m struggling to see why some of you seem to have been blindsided by it.
 
TheReligion said:
Why are you lot so dramatic?

If he’s in the squad then it’s because the manager has decided he’s got something to offer. It’s that simple.

Amorim has had this stance from the start so I’m struggling to see why some of you seem to have been blindsided by it.
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Yeah he’s basically doing exactly what he said he’d do
 
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