Nice to see a first 11 appearing by the looks of it. Pretty much the team I’d have chosen as our best choice but will Mainoo be benched for Mbeumo with Bruno dropping into the midfield 2?
Manchester United vs West Ham (Sun 27th July, 00:00 UK time)
- Thread starter IRN-BRUno
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No I was just talking generally - until the subs came on
And if we could get in a quality striker, a quality central midfielder before the start of the season, we wouldn't look half-bad. And certainly on paper no worse than Villa, Newcastle or BrightonI feel we can already see some of the problems we're going to encounter this season if we sign no midfielders. Going forward I expect us to be a lot better after a bit of a bedding in period. But our midfield is always going to be imbalanced with the players we have and not offer proper protection to the defence. I hope it can be alleviated with some training, but I think it's going to be an issue. Thankfully our defence itself is looking decent, albeit there's a mistake or two in there. A lot of that would be solved with the right midfield signing, but I understand the club is a bit fecked for money.
Only saw the first 30 but it was quite promising, looked physically more competitive, though that is hard to judge without knowing West Hams prep level, there was also a good tempo and snap to the play.
I think Cunha is going to be a star for us, just has that quality to take the ball in tight area and find outlets, already showing signs of a good understanding with Dorgu as well on that flank.
I think Cunha is going to be a star for us, just has that quality to take the ball in tight area and find outlets, already showing signs of a good understanding with Dorgu as well on that flank.
Noticed that too. He looks like he wants to prove something, which is very nice to see. I guess, there is a good chance to see the same effect with Mbeumo. My worry though is, that we've seen this a few times, but our team seems super capable of getting this out of people. Making them think, they are special when they often aren't to that extent. The 2nd string yesterday had multiple posterboys of that ilk out there...
They did look good because they were spending a lot of energy which, in connection with a fit team overall really set the tone for our initial pressing. Apart from that, it was promising no doubt, but I wouldn't overestimate the game. Pretty sure, the players knew they only had to last a specific time and Westham didn't seem too focussed to actively break our press. They did a few times though and scored once from it. So I wouldn't describe it as "Mainoo and Ugarte allowed opposition to find lots of space" as this is a team issue, not a individual players issue. If we want to press, we have to do it as a team. If the midfielders commit, the defense has to push up.
He passed to a player that showed availability only to then not go for the ball for it to be easily nicked by Mainoo. Keeper was then totally wrong placed for the shot. He looked well dumb, no question, but it wasn't just him who fecked up there.
Throughout the game, Bruno wasn't in the group of players to really stand out. It was one of the rather sloppy performances although one of his finishes was really good and he played good passes. The players that stood out were Ugarte, Dorgu and Cunha, with the rest offering good showings in 1st half and a decent one in the first part of the 2nd. The goal against isn't just down to the midfield, if we want to play a pressing game, the defense has to push up. You can't expect the midfielders to participate in the press AND be there to prevent counter situations from happening. There were enough defenders to deal with the situation better and the finish was exquisite.
Agreed. Pressing and physicality was good to see. Lets see if this will become a trend and not just a one-off. I also wouldn't overemphasize the game, pressing is a default these days, what we've seen from us yesterday, is bread and butter for most teams and the better ones are well equipped to deal with pressure, even exploiting it.
Ugarte and Mainoo won't control midfields though - they haven't even yesterday. They are missing the range in passing to really take control of games. What we've seen yesterday was a good team effort, creating pressure on opponents to force errors, which worked quite well. Also, Amorims systems in Sporting were in need of a leading striker to stretch the play vertically and keep the oppo CBs occupied. If we don't have a player doing that, they will be free to deal with our players. And while I think Cunha will be able to handle that, Bruno will most definitely not. Not sure about Mbeumo, but he didn't come across too battle ram'my whenever I saw him.
I think Ugarte is going to do much better this season.
The full 90 mins is now up on ManUtd.com
Was impressed with the first hour of the game. Thought the midfield worked really well for large parts of the match, Ugarte made alot of interceptions and got his toe in a few times to nick it. Mainoo had a good games as well in my opinion, some really nice touches and technically got an assist for the Bruno worldie. Thought the front 3 worked well too and even Rasmus looked ok opposed to his usual showing.
We controlled the game up until the subs came on and then after that as usual it was a completely different kittle of fish. Our first 11 is quite solid but the squad players are miles off the pace. Mount i think is going to fade away and be a nothing player for us who will probably leave next season for a mid table club.
All in all i thought it was good and much more positive than we have seen for a while.
We controlled the game up until the subs came on and then after that as usual it was a completely different kittle of fish. Our first 11 is quite solid but the squad players are miles off the pace. Mount i think is going to fade away and be a nothing player for us who will probably leave next season for a mid table club.
All in all i thought it was good and much more positive than we have seen for a while.
First 65 was a really fun watch. Back three looked solid, but Heaven will not keep that place if Shaw gets in shape.
Højlund actually looked strong and quick and didn’t back into a single defender (I may have missed one). But his decisions and finishing looked as raw as last season.
The drop in quality after all the subs was insane. But I guess that’s what it is.
Hopefully Bryan starts next the one.
Højlund actually looked strong and quick and didn’t back into a single defender (I may have missed one). But his decisions and finishing looked as raw as last season.
The drop in quality after all the subs was insane. But I guess that’s what it is.
Hopefully Bryan starts next the one.
Bruno scored 2 goals, not a bad showing if thats classed as a poor performance.
I didn't say it was down to the midfield, I said the recovery of the midfield wasn't good enough, thats where we'll get picked apart and targeted this season, with teams playing the low block and counter, we saw it too many times last season.
Yeah I was disappointed he didn't get any mins, hope he hasn't gone on the tour just for training and bonding with first team. He may as well be sent out on loan if he's not gonna get a chance
Fitness is key for him, he had games last year where he was hoovering up every ball for a half then fell off, then struggled to get up to speed for the next game. Not sure if he was carrying injuries last year but that needs to be fixed or he needs to drop the intensity to get through games.
Somebody was asking earlier - the full match is available on MUTV now.
We were certainly improved from the Leeds game, but it would be a stretch to say we 'bossed' the first half. Even Amorim pointed out at halftime that we were rushing things in the final third instead of showing composure and working better openings. You can still see the habits of a team used to playing in transition. It's going to take time and proper coaching to fully shift that mindset. The real goal now is to reach a point where we can consistently pin teams back and sustain pressure in the final third. However, as you said, all in all, a positive display.
If Bruno gets dropped into a midfield two, Amorim will be sacked by November. Bruno is not a midfielder. Baffling that he was ever put there, by any manager.
I agree, I’d always prefer him as a 10, but I can see him rotating depending on the opposition.
Thought the first XI was good. Something to build on and Mbeumo still to come in.
After the subs only Maguire was up to par.
After the subs only Maguire was up to par.
Liked what i saw in first half
Its also good that we got caught with high press for the goal we conceded. CCB position is so important for this and because we made this mistake early in preseason, hopefully we can iron it out before the start of the season
Bruno played where i would want him to play.. Amorim comments about Bruno, that he doesn’t need to do everything and he will have help, is so good to hear. Bruno just sometimes tries too much to help out but with Cunha and Mbuemo, he might not have to do that. I was in camp to move him on, if we plan to play him as CM, but if he is playing well, i would be so happy to be proven wrong. Now i am expecting to have a big season
Mainoo and Ugarte did very well and they can build on from here. Press shape apart from the goal was very good. They were always present in 4 man press and Mainoo even drifted to right side, to make space in middle. Great thing about both of them, is that they are comfortable on the ball. Casemiro did well as well when he came on
Rasmus did okay as well. Lets see how the pre season unfolds for him
Defence did well, apart from the goal. Shaw and Maguire was decent as well in limited minutes
Was bit surprised to not see Zirkzee, i thought he had joined with the team at the start of preseason. No Kone was also disappointing.
Its also good that we got caught with high press for the goal we conceded. CCB position is so important for this and because we made this mistake early in preseason, hopefully we can iron it out before the start of the season
Bruno played where i would want him to play.. Amorim comments about Bruno, that he doesn’t need to do everything and he will have help, is so good to hear. Bruno just sometimes tries too much to help out but with Cunha and Mbuemo, he might not have to do that. I was in camp to move him on, if we plan to play him as CM, but if he is playing well, i would be so happy to be proven wrong. Now i am expecting to have a big season
Mainoo and Ugarte did very well and they can build on from here. Press shape apart from the goal was very good. They were always present in 4 man press and Mainoo even drifted to right side, to make space in middle. Great thing about both of them, is that they are comfortable on the ball. Casemiro did well as well when he came on
Rasmus did okay as well. Lets see how the pre season unfolds for him
Defence did well, apart from the goal. Shaw and Maguire was decent as well in limited minutes
Was bit surprised to not see Zirkzee, i thought he had joined with the team at the start of preseason. No Kone was also disappointing.
I didn't say it was a poor performance. It was a good performance, slightly sloppy. He didn't stand out as much as the others you mentioned - I just pointed that out since you said you've only seen a highlights reell.
Agreed, I worry about that too. And yesterday we had probably the most capable combination of players on the pitch in that aspect, different ones are expected to deal even worse with it.
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this (probably, as I haven't read through all the comments), but the average age of United's team in the first half, was 21.17 yrs.
That's mad - doesn't seem that young when you look at it on paper
Shaw needs to be rememer that as a LCB he can't go charging up then field like he did on one occasion, we lost possesion and ended up with a 3 on 2 at the back
Only saw the highlights, how was it? Were we as comfortable as it seems in summary? Did Mbeumo play?
Mbuemo isnt availsble until the Everton game
Much better performance no doubt as a result of playing Bruno in his actual position. Also West Ham look like they could be facing a relegation battle, they were abysmal.
The LCB is supposed to make forward runs in this system, it's just that Shaw physically can't do it anymore and shouldn't be playing.
We look better, but still a ways to go. Pressing was better and playing out the back as well, but we still get in trouble too easily.
We were slightly better than West Ham, we need to boss them instead. If we keep improving in this direction, that can happen.
Some of these things are basics that other teams perform well.
We were slightly better than West Ham, we need to boss them instead. If we keep improving in this direction, that can happen.
Some of these things are basics that other teams perform well.
Yeah, it was, I was hoping the commentator would ask him what he thought of Onana's performances from last season but the commentator bottled it instead.
Letting Owen wear it is one of the bigger blunders we’ve made, in an ocean of blunders.
How often do you think we've bossed West Ham historically? Even when we were good it would usually be wins by a single goal difference with infrequent thrashings (along with infrequent draws).
It would be nice to get to a stage where we occasionally boss them but that's not the next hurdle. We just need to be slightly better than most teams next season.
Owen is a legend for me after that goal against City.
I’ll rewatch the game today because we had a few shocking moments and I’d like to see the build up play that led to them, and I’ll note the times.
For instance, the midfield 2 - as noted by everyone - needs positional discipline. At least twice they both were too far forward and with one pass they were taken out. This led to 2 Hammers facing up to a back 5 who were in a straight line. The second time was similar but there were 3 attackers but again we had 5 defenders in a straight line. When it was against 2, I can’t see why one of the 5 didn’t at least step up and challenge. That would still have left 4 players to cover. I don’t know what our wingbacks were doing to be set so far back.
We had a huge open space almost like Ten Hag’s beloved donut formation. This is a tactical problem I hope we are working on fixing because West Ham were terrible and we were lucky to win.
For instance, the midfield 2 - as noted by everyone - needs positional discipline. At least twice they both were too far forward and with one pass they were taken out. This led to 2 Hammers facing up to a back 5 who were in a straight line. The second time was similar but there were 3 attackers but again we had 5 defenders in a straight line. When it was against 2, I can’t see why one of the 5 didn’t at least step up and challenge. That would still have left 4 players to cover. I don’t know what our wingbacks were doing to be set so far back.
We had a huge open space almost like Ten Hag’s beloved donut formation. This is a tactical problem I hope we are working on fixing because West Ham were terrible and we were lucky to win.
That sounds more like the defenders should have called off the press or pushed up, rather than the midfield needing discipline, if we had a whole back five behind the midfield.
Good idea you’re rewatching it. Perhaps wear some visual aids this time!
The elephant in the room is that we would be much better off playing all three of Cunha, Mbuemo, and Bruno, behind a central striker.
But then I guess, maybe 3-4-3 or Amorim's variation of it is the only way to also then get Amad into the side, with Bruno then being one of the midfield two. That will be the only real way to get all of Cunha, Mbuemo, Bruno, and Amad into the same starting 11.
That puts us around 8th place, that’s not good enough.
Yeah, I need to rewatch it. I was more curious why the wingbacks were in a straight line with the 3 CBs when there were only 2 attackers.
Yeah that makes no sense. I'm sure Amorim agrees.
It's only two games, but these decisions so quick after each other - so far - make me think that the initial plan is to alter the set up a bit per game. I don't think we'll see much of Bruno-Mainoo, but when Bruno is in 10 (I don't see him dropped), Mainoo can play CM. I don't think he is consistently composed enough to play CM, but who knows, perhaps that all looks better if the whole team grows in a shared composure, so there's less "need" for him to get his reflex to go "I'll fix it"-mode and forget part of the job is to either control the play or be the architect on the pitch when the game/plan asks for something else.
Exceptions/injuries aside, I think Cunha will mostly play as a 10, but I think Bruno will alternate between R10 and CM, Amad between R10 and RM/RWB, perhaps Mbeumo too or as a bit more of an R10/CF option if no other striker is brought in - and Hojlund/Zirkzee won't step up their game enough. While I worry a bit for Mainoo's gametime, I am glad that I saw a bit more of his inspired approach in some moments. Since it's early that's either a promising start or a naive thought, but for now it was nice to see. So it would be sad if his chance at a start depends on where Bruno plays. But for a manager and more neutrally inclined fans it is nice to have a squad where it's easier to move players around a bit to change some of the accents while sticking to the main plan for the most part. While Mainoo and Ugarte could work well with more time to develop, I also think that for the long run it would be good to have a more composed midfield option, as well. Maybe Mainoo could grow into one, but at least some form of cover in the form of a thinking type of midfielder looks like a missing element, especially with Licha being out all the time to cover those types of responsibilities more from the back three.
Any team and player can look better during preseason, but I am glad to see Cunha settling in all right while multiple players look a bit more freed up in the head. Bruno at 10 in Amorim-team looks good, but I'm afraid that seeing two of Cunha, Amad and Mbeumo as 10s will always mean Bruno in center midfield. Perhaps he still is our best player, and he is the captain, but I think the team will benefit if the manager has the option to try more than "two non-Brunos in 10 = only one of Casemiro/Ugarte/Mainoo" and "two non-Brunos in center midfield = only one of Cunha/Amad/Mbeumo/Mount (as 10)"
He's good, delivers great numbers, and perhaps I'm misinterpreting, but it always feels a bit like United got stuck in a position where the rebuild and all its assets revolve around Bruno. ETH likes Bruno and he was probably like his new Tadic, plus Bruno worked hard and was the one player getting in the numbers for Amorim, while perhaps this manager thinks similarly about the being untouchable of a/the leader to preserve some hierarchy and structure in the team. But, while he was the clear star again this game, I hope Amorim has (or creates) more wiggle room in his tactical approach. Perhaps his stubbornness regarding the 3-4-2-1 will pay off in the end, but I think he'll nail his own coffin if the one self-limit is further "focused" into always being closer to a Bruno+10 formation, no matter how well other players will/could link up. I hope I'm wrong or that an extremely improved Amorim United has Bruno prove me wrong. As we see him now I really hope he just gets to focus on those 10 positions, but we'll have to wait and see.
By the way, that west ham goalie was a fecking disaster and a half.