Wilcox was reportedly very eager to bring him here. A tad worrying if that is the case.
25
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 44
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 13
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
I think this is another long list of signing which we have gotten wrong. He is a good player and very good at defensive side of things in terms of tackles and recoveries, but it defeats the purpose when after getting it, he will always lose it in the next sequence.
The top level football is moving away from pure DM, now every team is moving towards CM/DM who are great defensively but very press resistant. You look at Rodri, Rice, Enzo, Caicedo, Partey, Gravenbeck, Bentacur, Neves, Vitinha, Kimmich etc. Now with such intense pressing you can not afford to have a passenger which is technically so bad at this level. Maybe once Casemiro moves he can replace him, but even at this age and physically shot, the quality and passes Casemiro shows Ugarte in unable to show he has that level even in spades.
The top level football is moving away from pure DM, now every team is moving towards CM/DM who are great defensively but very press resistant. You look at Rodri, Rice, Enzo, Caicedo, Partey, Gravenbeck, Bentacur, Neves, Vitinha, Kimmich etc. Now with such intense pressing you can not afford to have a passenger which is technically so bad at this level. Maybe once Casemiro moves he can replace him, but even at this age and physically shot, the quality and passes Casemiro shows Ugarte in unable to show he has that level even in spades.
With Mount and especially Amad who can come in, it makes sense to drop Bruno back and drop him. I think the reason we start these games so bad and score few goals is the 5 at the back and 2 holding midfielders starting. Could even play Amad right wing back with Mount coming in for Ugarte
Will be much better when the team is better, if that makes any sense. A team on the front foot, he'll be excellent at mopping up attacks, has a knack of getting the ball, did it multiple times yesterday too. His passing was erratic for sure and something he needs to work on. Nothing expansive, but just having the ability to not lose it asap.
I'm honestly trying to retain rationality. But I don't really rate him, or Dorgu for that matter. But still early days I suppose.
You’d have to be a complete god at ball-winning with an indefatigable engine for it to even make sense.
The biggest problem with him is he is a player for the opposition to target, both on and off the ball. On the ball, his errors are abundantly clear; off the ball, you want him overcommitting for the yellow card draw into either a red or a runner who can no longer be aggressive.
Don’t have anything against him for his effort, but you can see top level football is not his bar - this was only a mediocre Bilbao with their stars at home, and he’s struggled badly in both legs. Him in the CL in the same role against the PSG’s, Barca’s etc. etc. would be bad. Very, very bad.
If thisbis the case why didn't PSG keep him. They're much better than us right now.
I see people compare his defensive abilities to Kante/Joao Neves etc but he’s nowhere near that level. The latter players press you from the blindside and hooks the ball rather than Ugarte who just dives in like a headless chicken going full body into a tackle, it works once every 3-10 attempts depending on how bad a game he’s having.
The idea he's "safer" is laughable too. We can't keep the ball when he plays, he gets bypassed easily. He's weak, he gives up possession. He makes us a worse team. He's also a pressing trigger and clear weak link. If we were a reactive club he'd be sold in summer like what PSG did but he'll hover around like a bad smell for a few years until people realise.
Posts critical of Ugarte are extremely harsh in my views. There is always a better player for any position (rare exceptions) but he has done very well for his first season where we have had all sorts of challenges. He had a terrific performance at the weekend and his G+A numbers are decent for someone who is supposedly terrible on the ball.
He is a bit off pace for the last month.
To me this is normal. He played a lot this season, adapting to a new team, league, club and he didn't played much last year.
He also add few trip back to South America and he's tiring now.
I would play him anyway against Spurs because I am really worried about the like of Betancur, Kulusevski and Bissouma and would like to get Bruno higher.
Just rest the lad for the next 2 weeks until the final.
To me this is normal. He played a lot this season, adapting to a new team, league, club and he didn't played much last year.
He also add few trip back to South America and he's tiring now.
I would play him anyway against Spurs because I am really worried about the like of Betancur, Kulusevski and Bissouma and would like to get Bruno higher.
Just rest the lad for the next 2 weeks until the final.
Yeah you can argue for starting strong or bringing ‘finishers’ of the bench, I just don’t buy the argument replacing one player turned it all around for us.
I think its tough to fully judge central midfielders in their first season in the Prem. It's probably the hardest position to play in this league, and you often see Midfielders really kick on in their second season (Look at Gravenbach as a recent example).
So yeah, lets see where we are at Christmas... we've definitely seen enough good stuff from him to think he could kick on.
So yeah, lets see where we are at Christmas... we've definitely seen enough good stuff from him to think he could kick on.
It's frustrating to see people laud him when you watch any high level UCL game and every one of the midfielders on the pitch completely outclasses him in possession and many are better off the ball as well.
If he was a prime Casemiro style anchor then sure I'd have no issue, because a player like that shielding your backline is so valuable. But in reality he's more akin to Fred without the bipolarness (both good and bad). It really isn't hard to find players like him and we spent a good portion of our budget on one.
He needs to make a big jump in so many ways for next season.
I think we are all predicted that his limited game would be revealed sooner rather than later. He's not always as bad as last night but I think he will be phased to the bench in 2 seasons by a couple of smart midfield buys. Which makes me wonder, what was the point of this signing? His weaknesses were no secret and PSG were basically pushing him out the door yet we jumped. It does worry me that Wilcox was behind this transfer, I hope Vivell is given a larger say in recruitment going forward. Another thing that hurts is that we basically funded PSG getting Joao Neves, we should've gone for him instead.
He did have a good month or two around the time Amorim first came in, so he has shown that he can perform well. The question is whether he can perform at that level more consistently.
I read somewhere that INEOS will give players brought for the first team two seasons before looking to move them on. I think if Ugarte has another season like the one he just had, his head might be on the chopping block.
I think both Ugarte and Casemiro are to limited in their passing to start together in midfield, we really struggle to play it out from the back when both of them are on the pitch, it should be Bruno + 1 in the final and next season.
Difference is Gravenberch obviously got a new manager, and is just generally far more gifted as a footballer than Ugarte has ever been.
Yeah. I thought he'd be fine, as long as his tackling is as good as Mascherano. I like that type of "limited" player, Masch or Makelele type, and find them extremely useful.
But Ugarte is not. His strength, fitness level and his speed are also lacking for such a defensive player. He should be a squad player, a player that we buy for 20m.
He has decent games with the ball but his bottom level is really bad. Overall he is very limited. Penciling him in as a reliable starter for us going forward is pure optimism IMO.
Last 2 games he has wanted to take too many touches and run with the ball, but he's quite loose with his control and not that agile so it was easy to pinch the ball off him and he got lucky a few other times when the opposition didnt anticipate the loose touches. Taking him off was one of the keys to turning the game around which isnt a good look for a £42 million midfielder. He hadnt been as bad with the ball until recently so I hope its just a poor patch
Bilbao had a break in the last game where Bruno was way behind the play but ran down the danger before Ugarte and with far more intensity.
At his best he makes few errors on the ball but hes hasn’t been that player for a bit. He’s far from expansive, incisive or comfortable on the ball.
In many ways the game just passes him by. Disappointing given how much we spent
At his best he makes few errors on the ball but hes hasn’t been that player for a bit. He’s far from expansive, incisive or comfortable on the ball.
In many ways the game just passes him by. Disappointing given how much we spent
24 so still not in his prime with one PL season (not yet complete) under his belt.
Hasn't been that bad and if asked to rate his performances this season I'd probably say around 6/10.
Let's at least give him a season to fully adjust before writing him off.
Hasn't been that bad and if asked to rate his performances this season I'd probably say around 6/10.
Let's at least give him a season to fully adjust before writing him off.
He should be no more than a squad player, our problem is we collect a lot of players like that
Considering he would be totally useless for PSG in their current system, it's crazy we paid so much for him.
We overpaid a lot for this guy. He's not worth more than £30m.
Yet 2 teams have now spent 50m + on him.
The first team was able to move him on without taking a loss and unfortunately we're the ones left holding the bag once again. Was holding out hope that he'd be much better than he has shown but I realise now that he is too limited to be a game changer for a top team. He's not even a game changer in our shower of shite. In a proper team, he'd be the 4th or 5th choice CM.
Which probably tells you a story also regarding his worth.
They need different qualities from a midfielder. Setup more like the spanish side which is why Ruiz is so important.
Neves was €70m + Renato Sanches. Ugarte was €50. So how is it the same price?
No it doesn't. Just tells you there was a sucker on the other side willing to pay their ask. That's like saying Antony is worth £86m because someone paid it.
If Antony gets sold for 86m now it is yeah.
PSG paid €60m & wanted close to that in order to sell. The second team in a year decided he was worth €50m.
I doubt we’re asking for over 50m for Antony.
Ugarte was €50 with €10 million in add-ons. Neves was €60 with €10 in add-ons. And Sanches going on loan is irrelevant as he’s played very little football the past few years.
I’m not too bothered about all that to be honest. My main concern is that Ugarte looks to be yet another poor value signing. As I said before for a fee in the range of £50m or more we should be getting a much better player.
If we got them both it would have worked a treat imo.
This is what I’ve heard about countless amount of flop signing we’ve made. When a player is crap, a player is crap there’s no two ways about it. Ugarte is crap, he’s not very good at anything apart from kicking shins. Yeah a few times he may win the ball back whilst giving away a countless amount of fouls but he offers absolutely nothing in possession.
I keep reading ‘ah it’s his first year’ etc, I think to his standards he’s been pretty good, he settled in quite quickly - except his standards are very low. This is exactly who he was at PSG, and at Sporting. He’s not going to suddenly learn how to pass, or carry the ball, he’s not going to cut out the amount of fouls he does, he’s not going to improve his mindset too which is him just diving into every challenge possible, we need to get rid immediately and recoup as much as we can
Both teams famous for their success in the transfer market (well PSG have seen to get their act together recently which involved getting rid of him)
The team would be better with a technically gifted player who can evade pressure and play well through the lines in his position. The lack of it in our midfield really hinders us as a team.