[The Hilton]

He isn't capable of sitting, his game is all about roaming around and getting stuck in. That's why he worked a bit better next to Casemiro, who does have the positional discipline.

Still not good enough for us, but we aren't really using him right either.

 

[Owen Hargo]

He isn't capable of sitting, his game is all about roaming around and getting stuck in. That's why he worked a bit better next to Casemiro, who does have the positional discipline.

Still not good enough for us, but we aren't really using him right either.

I don’t think he is good to start for any PL team if I’m being honest. Just bad

 

[AndyMUFC]

He isn't capable of sitting, his game is all about roaming around and getting stuck in. That's why he worked a bit better next to Casemiro, who does have the positional discipline.

Still not good enough for us, but we aren't really using him right either.

This. It's become increasingly obvious over time he's not a holding midfielder, which I thought we were getting when we were signing him.

Not even 100% sure he's going to go in the summer, as we'll need three midfielders then.

 

[Lash]

This guy is a complete system player. He doesn't look up when he passes and runs around like a mad man. You need to set up the team accordingly and he'd be a decent cog in the machine. Not got a future here, needs to be moved on for his own good as well as ours

 

[#07]

This. It's become increasingly obvious over time he's not a holding midfielder, which I thought we were getting when we were signing him.

Not even 100% sure he's going to go in the summer, as we'll need three midfielders then.

Yes.

The worry when Casemiro leaves is the club, again, misprofiles his replacement. This is a club that tried to play Van de Beek and Mount in deep midfield. Does anyone really trust them to replace Casemiro when they were never able to replace Carrick..?

Ugarte is a standard 1990s style #8 as you say. He runs around, he gets involved, he pressures high up and tries to get turnovers. He's not someone who takes up good positions to cut out passes or screens well in space.

We moved Fred to Fenerbache and bought the Temu version. Man Utd that...

...God knows who we will buy to replace Bruno!

 

[lex talionis]

I actually trust club management to get it right this time, especially if Carrick remains at the helm. Michael Carrick knows midfielders.

The rumor mill has Anderson going to City, but I really do think we can gut City's plans and bring the man to Old Trafford. We'd still need a second allrounder midfielder whose strength leans toward holding to complete the rotation. Ugarte can be deep cover for those days when we're up 3-0 in at the 70th minute when our midfielders need protection from a second booking, from an injury from petulant opponents or just need the rest.

 

[Isotope]

I actually trust club management to get it right this time, especially if Carrick remains at the helm. Michael Carrick knows midfielders.

The rumor mill has Anderson going to City, but I really do think we can gut City's plans and bring the man to Old Trafford. We'd still need a second allrounder midfielder whose strength leans toward holding to complete the rotation. Ugarte can be deep cover for those days when we're up 3-0 in at the 70th minute when our midfielders need protection from a second booking, from an injury from petulant opponents or just need the rest.

So he might only play a few games a season?

 

[Oranges038]

Grand, so stuck with him until the summer then.

Good job there's only one game a week, the less he plays the better.

 

[lex talionis]

So he might only play a few games a season?

Touche!

But on a more serious note, we're not likely going to find a buyer for Ugarte, whose wages are reported to 120k/week. We either go with him as a regular starter, which I would advise against, or we go with him as first cover for our DM, which would be risky. We saw what happened when we subbed on Ugarte for Casemiro -- coincidence perhaps but we were suddenly pinned to the wall and we conceded two goals.

We may not be able to afford to go with Ugarte as the the third DM option...but can we afford not to?

 

[Isotope]

Touche!

But on a more serious note, we're not likely going to find a buyer for Ugarte, whose wages are reported to 120k/week. We either go with him as a regular starter, which I would advise against, or we go with him as first cover for our DM, which would be risky. We saw what happened when we subbed on Ugarte for Casemiro -- coincidence perhaps but we were suddenly pinned to the wall and we conceded two goals.

We may not be able to afford to go with Ugarte as the the third DM option...but can we afford not to?

Probably depend on who we get this summer. If it's a DM, then Ugarte would be fine a s a marauding 8, although then we'll lose any playmaking in CM. But like you said, it may fly when we're defending.

Even getting someone like Anderson, may give Ugarte some usefulness.

But I don't know.

 

[lex talionis]

Probably depend on who we get this summer. If it's a DM, then Ugarte would be fine a s a marauding 8, although then we'll lose any playmaking in CM. But like you said, it may fly when we're defending.

Even getting someone like Anderson, may give Ugarte some usefulness.

But I don't know.

If we bring in Anderson he of course walks into the starting XI but that transfer leaves us presumably little to work with in terms of a second defensive midfielder ahead of Ugarte. Let's think about this for a moment. Assuming we keep Bruno we have:

Bruno
Mount
Mainoo
Casemiro Replacement
Ugarte

Assuming we really do qualify for the CL, that seems light to me. And as much as I like Collyer and Gore it seems unlikely either will break into the first team next season. So, do we go in for a second midfielder after securing Anderson, a midfielder who can do a job at DM or CM, or do we promote Collyer or Gore and give Ugarte something to worry about? Probably the latter, given how much it's going to cost us to land Anderson, who will be worth every penny.

 

[keener]

Bruno
Mount
Mainoo
Baleba or Anderson
Academy players Fletcher, Gore?

We still need another 1 or 2 if champions league is in the schedule if not 3. Ugarte needs to go. I'd love to see a player like Tonali BUT the one I want back in the club is McTominay!! I'd pay for part of the fee if we'd go him back! Granted, a small part of the fee but open a gofund me United!

 

[goldenboy]

He is simply not suited for purpose - basically any purpose really in this United team. Doesn't even put out fires well enough to come on and help defend a lead, is too limited to start games where United want to win. There are many players who would do a better job than him for relatively modest fees.
He has to be moved on and replaced.

 

[tomaldinho1]

He is simply not suited for purpose - basically any purpose really in this United team. Doesn't even put out fires well enough to come on and help defend a lead, is too limited to start games where United want to win. There are many players who would do a better job than him for relatively modest fees.
He has to be moved on and replaced.

These wheels never make any sense with how they are portrayed.
I have no idea how to post the pic, but use something like this: https://datamb.football/midfielders/ where it layers the players on the same wheel for comparison (Baleba, Anderson, Ugarte comparison for example shows Anderson is simply much better than the other two - Ugarte actually looks a lot better than Baleba as well). Obviously different teams and systems but at least a direct visual comparison.

 

[Norris Cole]

You never know he might come good.
Casemiro looked completely spent last year and look at him now.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

You never know he might come good.
Casemiro looked completely spent last year and look at him now.

No comparison between the two. Casemiro is no Rodri on the ball but Ugarte is a liability on it. Not cutout for United - we need to get rid asap

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He is simply not suited for purpose - basically any purpose really in this United team. Doesn't even put out fires well enough to come on and help defend a lead, is too limited to start games where United want to win. There are many players who would do a better job than him for relatively modest fees.
He has to be moved on and replaced.

That graphic makes him look pretty good, no? Excellent defensively and passes the ball very accurately. Kind of what you want from a DM.

 

[Olecurls99]

That graphic makes him look pretty good, no? Excellent defensively and passes the ball very accurately. Kind of what you want from a DM.

Oh yeah

If we get Europe then we'll be signing 2 midfielders anyway. I don't see the need to make it 3. Keep him for another year.

 

[goldenboy]

That graphic makes him look pretty good, no? Excellent defensively and passes the ball very accurately. Kind of what you want from a DM.

There are some key qualifiers to him being "excellent defensively" - you can mainly see that in his mediocre overall "Threat Prevented" measure. This suggests that the above average tackles he does make are in relatively insignificant situations in the game, e.g. in a scramble on the half-way line. It suggests that he is actually sub-par in making defensive contributions in key circumstances, eg when the opponent is ready to shoot inside the box, or has played a dangerous cross in to the box. You can also get a sense of this from the fact his Shots Blocked stat is pretty much bottom of the pile.

In a nutshell: it shows he does his ball winning chasing up the pitch, but is poor when on the back foot and it really matters (eg if under pressure trying to prevent a goal).

His bottom-of-the-pile 'Threat Created' and 'Progressive Passes' stats also point to the fact that he is basically a passenger on the ball, and at best will play a simple pass backwards to expect someone else to make something happen.

Him being poor defending the box and poor utilising the ball means he's ultimately poor at the two main scenarios you'd likely want to use him in:

1. You are pushing to win the game (whether it's 0-0 at the start of a match, or you're a goal behind later on etc.). Having one of your midfielders who is so incredibly sub-par at making things happen with the ball is not going to increase your chances of scoring a goal. It's close to having 10-men when you're in possession of the ball.

2. You are already winning and wish to defend that lead. Having a central midfielder sub-par at defending the box under pressure is not going to increase your chances of preventing a goal. We've already seen this time and again for United, where the midfield falls apart whenever Casemiro is subbed for Ugarte. It's as if Ugarte manages to be everywhere on the pitch except for where you need a DM to be.

Again, you can also get a sense of this from his overall "Player Impact" rating of a meagre 10th percentile. Ultimately, he has very little impact on the game at either business end of the pitch.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

That graphic makes him look pretty good, no? Excellent defensively and passes the ball very accurately. Kind of what you want from a DM.

Ugarte suffers from percentile dysfunction.

 

[Winrar]

There are some key qualifiers to him being "excellent defensively" - you can mainly see that in his mediocre overall "Threat Prevented" measure. This suggests that the above average tackles he does make are in relatively insignificant situations in the game, e.g. in a scramble on the half-way line. It suggests that he is actually sub-par in making defensive contributions in key circumstances, eg when the opponent is ready to shoot inside the box, or has played a dangerous cross in to the box. You can also get a sense of this from the fact his Shots Blocked stat is pretty much bottom of the pile.

In a nutshell: it shows he does his ball winning chasing up the pitch, but is poor when on the back foot and it really matters (eg if under pressure trying to prevent a goal).

His bottom-of-the-pile 'Threat Created' and 'Progressive Passes' stats also point to the fact that he is basically a passenger on the ball, and at best will play a simple pass backwards to expect someone else to make something happen.

Him being poor defending the box and poor utilising the ball means he's ultimately poor at the two main scenarios you'd likely want to use him in:

1. You are pushing to win the game (whether it's 0-0 at the start of a match, or you're a goal behind later on etc.). Having one of your midfielders who is so incredibly sub-par at making things happen with the ball is not going to increase your chances of scoring a goal. It's close to having 10-men when you're in possession of the ball.

2. You are already winning and wish to defend that lead. Having a central midfielder sub-par at defending the box under pressure is not going to increase your chances of preventing a goal. We've already seen this time and again for United, where the midfield falls apart whenever Casemiro is subbed for Ugarte. It's as if Ugarte manages to be everywhere on the pitch except for where you need a DM to be.

Again, you can also get a sense of this from his overall "Player Impact" rating of a meagre 10th percentile. Ultimately, he has very little impact on the game at either business end of the pitch.

Excellent post. Curious to see the same stats for the likes of Case, Anderson, Wharton. I knew that we look shaky whenever Ugarte plays despite his high numbers defensively, but couldn't really put a finger on why until I read this. Just sounds like (and looks like!) he doesn't impose himself in games and stats back that up. Also interesting to note that we've conceded more goals while Ugarte was on pitch than with Casemiro, with less than half the minutes played in the league.

 

[ArbeitervonWien]

That graphic makes him look pretty good, no? Excellent defensively and passes the ball very accurately. Kind of what you want from a DM.

Lies, damned lies and statistics that make Ugarte look capable!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Lies, damned lies and statistics that make Ugarte look capable!

Not really up for getting into nitty gritty of those stats. My eyes tell me that he had a pretty dire first season (as many new signings often do) followed by a poor beginning to this season (as part of a profoundly dysfunctional team) but has looked a little better recently. This has been ignored/dismissed because, as usual, people on here prefer doubling down to changing their opinions about a player. I’ve no idea how much better he can get from here but I’ve seen him put in enough decent performances to think there’s a player in there somewhere and wouldn’t be as hasty to write him off as many in this thread.

 

[Olecurls99]

Not really up for getting into nitty gritty of those stats. My eyes tell me that he had a pretty dire first season (as many new signings often do) followed by a poor beginning to this season (as part of a profoundly dysfunctional team) but has looked a little better recently. This has been ignored/dismissed because, as usual, people on here prefer doubling down to changing their opinions about a player. I’ve no idea how much better he can get from here but I’ve seen him put in enough decent performances to think there’s a player in there somewhere and wouldn’t be as hasty to write him off as many in this thread.

I'd agree with that. He does keep it simple but that's not always a bad thing. Defensive positioning surely can be worked on in training and I've seen him be very good at jinking away from trouble. He probably needs a run of games even with Mainoo to fully assess him.

 

[Nickelodeon]

He hasn’t started a game under Carrick yet. Though has been quite shoddy whenever he’s come on. Not giving up on him until Carrick does.

 

[ArbeitervonWien]

Not really up for getting into nitty gritty of those stats. My eyes tell me that he had a pretty dire first season (as many new signings often do) followed by a poor beginning to this season (as part of a profoundly dysfunctional team) but has looked a little better recently. This has been ignored/dismissed because, as usual, people on here prefer doubling down to changing their opinions about a player. I’ve no idea how much better he can get from here but I’ve seen him put in enough decent performances to think there’s a player in there somewhere and wouldn’t be as hasty to write him off as many in this thread.

Me neither. But I really don't see any progression. On the contrary, since we became good under Carrick, I get increasingly worried whenever he's subbed on for Casemiro, as we tend to lose control immediately. If it were just the uninspiring passing. But he's also not good at defending turnovers and couldn't screen the back four to save his life. He's even a liability when defending in a low block, as you could see against Fulham, where he jumped away from Kevin and let him take the shot for the second goal.

I'd really like him to prove me wrong, since I'd love to have a squad player with the profile Ugarte was supposed to offer us. We probably won't sell him in the summer anyway, given we don't have any other midfielders, so I guess he'll get another chance.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

That graphic makes him look pretty good, no? Excellent defensively and passes the ball very accurately. Kind of what you want from a DM.

To me it basically shows that his one main strength is running around like mad man to do defensive actions all over the pitch.... Which is fine when Casemiro is sitting (and those are pretty much exclusively the times he's looked good) but falls apart fast when he's the one you're expecting to hold. He isn't disciplined enough nor has the positional sense for it.

 

[bosnian_red]

Not really up for getting into nitty gritty of those stats. My eyes tell me that he had a pretty dire first season (as many new signings often do) followed by a poor beginning to this season (as part of a profoundly dysfunctional team) but has looked a little better recently. This has been ignored/dismissed because, as usual, people on here prefer doubling down to changing their opinions about a player. I’ve no idea how much better he can get from here but I’ve seen him put in enough decent performances to think there’s a player in there somewhere and wouldn’t be as hasty to write him off as many in this thread.

Yeah he's not bad IMO. Just depends what you need as a team. We'll need 4 CMs next season, and will lose one of our current 3... I don't see what the rush is in getting rid of an energetic ball winner. We need to buy 2 CMs already and address other positions too (LW IMO), and Ugarte can be a useful part of the squad next season just like he's had useful games last season and this season. People just want every player of your squad to be 100m playmakers, just not realistic.

 

[Utd heap]

Yeah he's not bad IMO. Just depends what you need as a team. We'll need 4 CMs next season, and will lose one of our current 3... I don't see what the rush is in getting rid of an energetic ball winner. We need to buy 2 CMs already and address other positions too (LW IMO), and Ugarte can be a useful part of the squad next season just like he's had useful games last season and this season. People just want every player of your squad to be 100m playmakers, just not realistic.

Can Ugarte do a job for 30 mins next season at home to Kairat Almaty in the Champs league...(yes).

 

[Vanrouge]

Not really up for getting into nitty gritty of those stats. My eyes tell me that he had a pretty dire first season (as many new signings often do) followed by a poor beginning to this season (as part of a profoundly dysfunctional team) but has looked a little better recently. This has been ignored/dismissed because, as usual, people on here prefer doubling down to changing their opinions about a player. I’ve no idea how much better he can get from here but I’ve seen him put in enough decent performances to think there’s a player in there somewhere and wouldn’t be as hasty to write him off as many in this thread.

Pretty much agree with this.

 

[Waynne]

For me he should be the first out the door in the summer along with Mount.

 

[ExistingNow]

I'm telling you man, there's a man of the match of performance away to Real Madrid next season waiting in this man's future.

 

[Sunny Jim]

he's gone. another game without him getting a playing time even though our midfield was piss poor yesterday.

 

[jem]

Not really up for getting into nitty gritty of those stats. My eyes tell me that he had a pretty dire first season (as many new signings often do) followed by a poor beginning to this season (as part of a profoundly dysfunctional team) but has looked a little better recently. This has been ignored/dismissed because, as usual, people on here prefer doubling down to changing their opinions about a player. I’ve no idea how much better he can get from here but I’ve seen him put in enough decent performances to think there’s a player in there somewhere and wouldn’t be as hasty to write him off as many in this thread.

I also think he had some good moments in his first season; remember it tailing off towards the end, but then that was the case for most of the team.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Not really up for getting into nitty gritty of those stats. My eyes tell me that he had a pretty dire first season (as many new signings often do) followed by a poor beginning to this season (as part of a profoundly dysfunctional team) but has looked a little better recently. This has been ignored/dismissed because, as usual, people on here prefer doubling down to changing their opinions about a player. I’ve no idea how much better he can get from here but I’ve seen him put in enough decent performances to think there’s a player in there somewhere and wouldn’t be as hasty to write him off as many in this thread.

He had 2 months last season where he was genuinely very good.

I actually think he's just a player who needs constant football or he falls off a cliff.b

Even at his best though he is not good enough to be a starter for a team looking to get to where we want. So we end up stuck with the absolutely dire stuff we have seen most of the time.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I also think he had some good moments in his first season; remember it tailing off towards the end, but then that was the case for most of the team.

Yeah I remember some good performances in year one too. Although they were isolated games.

 

[Eplel]

Have we even got a single point with this player in the game?

 

[Based Adnan]

Nothing good ever comes from bringing him on

 

[edgecutter]

Like a bad omen

 

[Orton]

Have we even got a single point with this player in the game?

Usually concede goals and drop points. Would love to see the stats with him on the pitch.