Fake news!
Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement
- Thread starter WeePat
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
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Fake news!
Total muppet mood killing stuff for me, how many times do we need to see a load of stats compared over and over. No one is getting swayed at this point.
She said yes. Don’t disturb us.Going to ask mum if I can stay up late
So have we signed him then?
Can you keep it down, I'm trying to track a plane
Alright but she’s an absolute nightMARE.
We've managed to sign all our targets so far though, Ugarte would be continuing with that
Scary thing is this might not be satire, so much misery in this thread.
Yeah would definitely like to see us add a DLP next summer when two of those are moved on. Surely can find someone for that role other than De Jong
Alright, final stat comparison from me today
Might be even more interesting to add a season of Fred and Kante's here too.
One thing I'm not sure if it's been mentioned about the 'success' rate of duels is that whilst you may not 'win' one, it may not neccessarily mean that duel wasn't effective i.e it could have slowed the opposition down, stop the momentum and/or help another team counterpress, recover etc.
No more stats!
New
No more stats please, they’ve been done snd regurgitated many times in this thread.
Thank you. That crap was so tedious. Fecking pages upon pages of stats
Young player, athletic, in an area that we desperately need, and no one else in the squad can do his job.
I couldn’t care less if he cost 50,60,70m. New management have done very well this summer and addressed issues that we thought needed years to fix. I will give them the benefit of the doubt that this is a player that they see potential to be valuable now and for years to come. This a signing that will not make us not run Mainoo to the ground, enable us to rest Casemiro from time to time, solidify the defensive part of our game, add much needed athleticism and bite to the midfield. This is a good signing that will improve us. Bet next season we will start looking for a progressive passer to replace Case.
I couldn’t care less if he cost 50,60,70m. New management have done very well this summer and addressed issues that we thought needed years to fix. I will give them the benefit of the doubt that this is a player that they see potential to be valuable now and for years to come. This a signing that will not make us not run Mainoo to the ground, enable us to rest Casemiro from time to time, solidify the defensive part of our game, add much needed athleticism and bite to the midfield. This is a good signing that will improve us. Bet next season we will start looking for a progressive passer to replace Case.
Statisticuffs rules on the caf.
Looks like he's a done dealio now. It's not my money so INEOS getting their man is good enough for me.
Okay, so after much flip flopping on whether he'll be a star or a dud for us, I have reached my final position, which is that he'll be a very good player for us. I arrived here after comparing his stats to Kante's time at Chelsea. They are eerily similar at a lot of things, from the high volume tackles won per game to the much debated low duel win rate.
Ugarte is more secure as a passer and aerially, while Kante is more secure as a carrier and more adventurous i.e. more shot creating actions etc.
It explains why Ugarte is a bad fit for PSG. It's like he's playing heavy metal in Luis Enrique's jazz club. It just won't work, same reason Kante wouldn't work in that team.
Instead of asking is Ugarte better than Neves, Rodri or even Rice, the question should be, would you take a 23 year old Kante on this team as a starter?
I bet the answer would be an overwhelming yes.
I rest my case.
Ugarte is more secure as a passer and aerially, while Kante is more secure as a carrier and more adventurous i.e. more shot creating actions etc.
It explains why Ugarte is a bad fit for PSG. It's like he's playing heavy metal in Luis Enrique's jazz club. It just won't work, same reason Kante wouldn't work in that team.
Instead of asking is Ugarte better than Neves, Rodri or even Rice, the question should be, would you take a 23 year old Kante on this team as a starter?
I bet the answer would be an overwhelming yes.
I rest my case.
Not really important but my inner muppet is wondering should he sign, what squad number do we think he would go for? to my knowledge available squad numbers (barring late departures) are, 13,19, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31 etc...
It's not about winning in every negotiation, sometimes you'll overpay like the case with Yoro which is justified, not for Ugarte though, we have start and build a reputation in the transfer market.
We lost money on big players like Di Maria who ended up being successful for them, his stock dropped the moment their manager dropped him from the team, PSG would never demand 60m from other clubs, only from us due to our past reputation which we need to change.
No, I would obviously be happy if he turns out amazing, the issue for me isn't really about Ugarte in particular but in how our club operates in the transfer market, building a reputation of not being forced to overpay beyond the necessary fee is important, in the De Ligt and Mazraoui deals, the club did an excellent job here, that sort of work needs to continue, and I know in certain situations you'll overpay like in Yoro, or if a top player has more than one club after him, no one else wants Ugarte and his current manager does not fancy him so we should not have to overpay here.
Edit: moved my post here to discuss further if needed.
Yeah we will put the voodoo on that
13 doesn't seem to be used much. Park pulled it off nicely but haven't really been used much besides? Lindegaard? My bet would be 26.
Maybe, but then we paid that for yoro to fend off Real Madrid. Are they in for ugarte?
Which will be first out of Ornstein bomb or Romano giving it the infamous Here We Go
Does pushing like Crazy make PSG lower their price??
If he refuses to play for them he is not in their plans anyway.
We should take this right to the wire and see what PSG do as now we are getting into the realms of making the same mistakes that we have made in the past.
If we do not get him at the price we want then we will see more of Collyer and from what I saw of him in preseason I do not think that is a bad thing.
Romano has been on this since the start. I expect him to break the news.
I mean I understand standing firm if you value the player at £30m and they ask for £50m. A big gulf like with Braithwaite and you walk away. But £6-7m isn’t too much based on what it can do to help the team during the season IF we get him. I think the opportunity cost is more than £6-7m if we do not get in a proper #6.
Ugarte has become criminally underrated on here. This is one of the best defensive players in world football. I also don't understand why people act as if this is the finished product. He is 23... he will improve, and we have invested all that money into new staff and facilities to help players become better.
People want a DLP, but we don't play that way. Why would we waste money on a type of player that doesn't fit our system?
Ugarte fills many holes in our squad. He gives us legs next to an aging Casemiro, and a young Mainoo. He is versatile to play with or in place of Casemiro, meaning we aren't going to vulnerable everytime Casemiro gets injured. And he has a very good injury record.
We all know 60m is a lot of money, hence why the deal isn't completed yet.
People want a DLP, but we don't play that way. Why would we waste money on a type of player that doesn't fit our system?
Ugarte fills many holes in our squad. He gives us legs next to an aging Casemiro, and a young Mainoo. He is versatile to play with or in place of Casemiro, meaning we aren't going to vulnerable everytime Casemiro gets injured. And he has a very good injury record.
We all know 60m is a lot of money, hence why the deal isn't completed yet.
Just for context, if we take €60m as the proposed fee for Ugarte, this is the list of midfielders who cost +/- €10m of that.
Rodri - €70m
Szoboszlai - €70m
Tonali - €64m
Lavia - €62.10m
Matheus Nunes - €62m
Ndombele - €62m
Pjanic - €60m
Keita - €60m
Joao Neves - €59.92
Onana - €59.35
Fred - €59m
Jorginho - €57m
Ruben Neves - €55m
Palhinha - €51m
Douglas Luiz - €51.5m
Partey - €50m
Rodri - €70m
Szoboszlai - €70m
Tonali - €64m
Lavia - €62.10m
Matheus Nunes - €62m
Ndombele - €62m
Pjanic - €60m
Keita - €60m
Joao Neves - €59.92
Onana - €59.35
Fred - €59m
Jorginho - €57m
Ruben Neves - €55m
Palhinha - €51m
Douglas Luiz - €51.5m
Partey - €50m
Also I think people are getting too bogged down with the prices being quoted. Remember Bayern wanted €50m + add ons for De Ligt. And we got the deal done for €50m total. So let’s wait till the actual numbers come out and then you can decide to freak out.
Yeah, same ball park as those seems about right.
But he is not a DM though is he?
All the comparisons are to Kante from what I can see.
The disputed amount between the two clubs seems to be the stumbling block but from my point of view the party that should give way should be PSG purely because the player does not figure in their plans and they have already bought the player that they see as their future.
The funny thing is that if Collyer was still at Brighton I bet he would be in the reckoning for being in their starting team this year and yet still on here we are talking about sending him out on loan.
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weirdly, 26 stuck out for me too.
How many of those players were out of favour for their clubs, though?
I don't think people want a DLP as such, but more so someone who excels in the passing department.
Mainoo is young and at the moment, he's relatively safe with his passing. Casemiro is hit and miss. Eriksen is easily our best passer from the deeper options, but lacks the intensity needed for the tactical set up ten Hag favours. Those three are pretty much the options ten Hag used last season, along with Amrabat, who is no longer here.
Indeed, were any of those players actually transfer listed? Makes a huge difference to a player's value.
Hopefully we can get him through the doors before scouse game, otherwise he will be off on international duty if it gets too close to deadline
I do agree that our midfield needs a deep passer, however, I think the first priority is getting someone capable of maintaining the press. We were getting ripped apart too often.
Unfortunately, there probably isn't a player available who can fill both voids. And if there was, they'd be worth north of 100m. It is why I believe our post Bruno future will likely see us play with the modern flat midfield three. Or essentially two #8 and one #6 sitting behind them. Mainoo is our crown jewel and his play style looks like in the long term he will require someone to do the dirty work and another to play the longer passes.
I'd be interested to see if Enzo becomes available if Chelsea capitulate in a year or two. He has a ton of potential in his long passing game and would be a nice fit between Mainoo and Ugarte.
Besides Rodri, Luiz is probably the second best player on the list. And everyone else is basically the same level. Unproven but a ton of potential.
I'm confident we will be scouting for a deep passer throughout this season, we seem to be monitoring Ederson so he could well be under consideration.
What sort of profile is this Gourna-Douth as Vivell will most likely know him well from working in Bundesliga. So he can put the club fully in the picture about what he could bring to team.
You don't necessarily need a specialist passer from deep if you have midfielders who excel at ball carrying and press resistance, which Mainoo and Ugarte do. There are other ways to play football, United fans are just nostalgic for the days of Scholes and Carrick.
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