Marc Skinner has left the club

Seems clear that Skinner resigned rather than sacked - although many disliked him, i believe he overachieved with the resources he had

The FA Cup win and first CL qualification deserves a lot of credit Vs clubs spending much more

Last season is absolutely on INEOS and Scrooge McRatcliffe - an absolute embarrassment that we went into some matches without a full bench
 
He won’t get the credit he deserves, but going from consecutive 4th place finishes to getting in the top 3 twice, getting within 2 points of the title in one of those seasons, winning our first major trophy, and getting to the quarter finals of the Champions League, all while still being behind the big three in terms of budget is a big achievement. When you compare where we were when Skinner started to now, it’s been a big step up even if the road to getting there was rocky. It doesn’t look so good right now, but the board deserve most of the blame for that. Even if his tactics aren’t always great, you’re asking a lot of any manager to consistently finish top 3 with the resources we have. I’m sure there’s better managers out there that could’ve done more, but it doesn’t feel like the club really wants us to do more. I don’t know which top manager we can attract while showing no visible signs of ambition.

Speaking of which, any ideas who might be next? It sounds like United have already started looking so we might get an answer soon. I wonder if someone like Charlotte Healy might be willing to come back and lead the team?
 
bgoodall said:
Can’t blame him if we continue to sell our best players to Chelsea and the other top teams who have no problem investing beyond our ambitions.
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Beyond our ambitions or beyond our means?

There's a difference here which I feel people need to realise.
 
I am surprised that United have not gone the way Chelsea & a few other clubs have gone by selling a major stake in the women's team to investors who have interest in that. Ineos clearly don't give a shit so I am sure that they can find Americans who want a part in that.
 
Rood said:
Seems clear that Skinner resigned rather than sacked - although many disliked him, i believe he overachieved with the resources he had
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They're calling it "mutual agreement," but I suspect it went something like this:

Skinner: "If you've decided to abandon the goal of competing for the WSL title, I'm outta here."

Club: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."

I suppose that, technically, this could be called "mutual agreement."

I totally agree (as I've said here many times) that he overachieved with the resources he had. I very much doubt the club can find a new manager who can do any better.
 
Champ said:
Beyond our ambitions or beyond our means?

There's a difference here which I feel people need to realise.
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Please tell us, accountancy champion, how a few million more a year is going to be the ruin of Manchester United.
 
A
Maestro14 said:
Speaking of which, any ideas who might be next? It sounds like United have already started looking so we might get an answer soon. I wonder if someone like Charlotte Healy might be willing to come back and lead the team?
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Most potential candidates I have zero idea about of course - including almost all those currently managing pro clubs and international sides. It'll be interesting.

Timing is tricky, which is part of the same picture of general indifference towards the women's team - though it's arguable that the men's team have had exactly the same problem over the past couple of years. By anyone's standards though - recruiting during peak player recruitment workload and only one year out from the Women's World Cup is not a nice schedule.

I'll add a new thread for appointment chat. Just so it doesn't get lost in this one.
 
Ubik said:
Please tell us, accountancy champion, how a few million more a year is going to be the ruin of Manchester United.
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Quite. Numbers we are talking here are transfer add on clauses for the men's team.
 
DOTA said:
Quite. Numbers we are talking here are transfer add on clauses for the men's team.
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Look after the pennies...

There is a difference of attitude in how the accounts will be read of course. The men's first team is viewed as a profit making asset with expenses, the women's team is treated more or less as a straight cost centre.

We've sold players, we've earned extra money from the FA Cup (about £1m for the win, half that as runners up), £1m for our run in the WCL, even from last season's 7s tournament. But the amounts are so small compared to the men's team that they get lost in the noise.

Whereas every cost in the women's account gets its own red highlighter.
 
According to "Project 150" this team is supposed to win the title this season or next - so presumably whoever replaces Skinner is supposed to be the coach who will do it. So what The Rat does next in terms of managerial appointment and signings will tell us a lot about whether Ineos are serious about their stated ambitions for United or just clowns.
 
Wasnt convinced he was the manager to take us to the next level, but also cant disagree that the money and signings havent been good enough to bring the club forward. Now it leaves the club in a no win situation where they'll want to get a new manager in before signing any other players... Giving them the perfect excuse to not spend more money
 
witchtrials said:
Ineos are serious about their stated ambitions for United or just clowns.
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Think its pretty obvious they don't want to be operating at a loss.

If the plan is to begin turning a profit again for the men's team this year, its not hard to imagine its the same for the women's
 
witchtrials said:
According to "Project 150" this team is supposed to win the title this season or next - so presumably whoever replaces Skinner is supposed to be the coach who will do it. So what The Rat does next in terms of managerial appointment and signings will tell us a lot about whether Ineos are serious about their stated ambitions for United or just clowns.
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The club have basically said that they are changing direction and have now abandoned the women's side of Project 150. Instead of using transfers to strengthen the team now they want to build the team over the long term with Academy players. Given that we recently signed three Academy players to contracts, I suspect this means we will not acquire any new players via transfer in this window. I also fear that we will now lose more of our top players in this window -- players who want to compete for trophies now rather than be part of a long-term developmental project.
 
Aresma7 said:
That was my point. It’s being pushed on us. Didn’t know we had a women’s discussion team. I’m now aware we do and I’ll stay out of it. I though Mark Skinner was some young prospect who left the club. Obviously I have to read the small text under the tread title from now on.
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Are you ok mate? Did someone force you to click on the women’s subsection of the forum, and then force you to write a six paragraph post telling us you aren’t interested in the women’s team? Do you need to ask for Angela?
 
Ubik said:
Please tell us, accountancy champion, how a few million more a year is going to be the ruin of Manchester United.
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The women's team don't have that sort of budget, unless what you're proposing is funding the women's team by using the men's teams budget?

In which case it isn't just as simple as giving a few million, it'd be a continuation of funds and a few million every season, which would always have to grow in order to keep up.

Best to stick within the budget the team has and grow organically, which has been happening pretty well so far.
 
Lobster11 said:
They're calling it "mutual agreement," but I suspect it went something like this:

Skinner: "If you've decided to abandon the goal of competing for the WSL title, I'm outta here."

Club: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."

I suppose that, technically, this could be called "mutual agreement."

I totally agree (as I've said here many times) that he overachieved with the resources he had. I very much doubt the club can find a new manager who can do any better.
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The actual concern now rather than doing better is that we could do much worse with the likes of LCL & Spurs investing a fair bit in the Women's team this year

I expect the club will at least spend the Malard money on a couple of half decent signings, whether there is any more money after that is the big question
 
Champ said:
The women's team don't have that sort of budget, unless what you're proposing is funding the women's team by using the men's teams budget?

In which case it isn't just as simple as giving a few million, it'd be a continuation of funds and a few million every season, which would always have to grow in order to keep up.

Best to stick within the budget the team has and grow organically, which has been happening pretty well so far.
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A few million is absolute chicken feed in the grand scheme of things and the point is that other clubs are doing it

Not even expecting to keep up with Arsenal/City/Chelsea but we now have a very real potential of falling below midtier clubs like Spurs, LCL & BHA which is pathetic for the biggest club in the country
 
Rood said:
A few million is absolute chicken feed in the grand scheme of things and the point is that other clubs are doing it

Not even expecting to keep up with Arsenal/City/Chelsea but we now have a very real potential of falling below midtier clubs like Spurs, LCL & BHA which is pathetic for the biggest club in the country
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It could hold us back for quite a while. Now what is the academy products who come in are good, but the rest of the team is not that great. Will those young players then request a transfer as they show some ambition. Then the pressure is on to produce more good academy players and the never ending scenario could go on for years. I do agree that we should be bringing some of our own through and have been disappointed we haven't, but if they think we can rely on that alone they are in cloud cuckoo land. It almost like they are just paying lip service to us having a women's team.
 
Champ said:
The women's team don't have that sort of budget, unless what you're proposing is funding the women's team by using the men's teams budget?

In which case it isn't just as simple as giving a few million, it'd be a continuation of funds and a few million every season, which would always have to grow in order to keep up.

Best to stick within the budget the team has and grow organically, which has been happening pretty well so far.
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Are you talking about revenue? "Budget" is entirely self-imposed according to your own goals. So yes, I would like a larger budget for the women's team, so that a United team will benefit greatly from a relatively small additional outlay from the perspective of the club. I'm aware that Jim'll Brexit won't want to do this, and that is the source of my complaint.
 
One thing to remember is that its going to be worse than we can see outside the club. I remember when I think it was Zelem left having been captain. She said it was lack of investment yes, but she had examples like being moved out of club fascillities and struggling to get training pitches. We can only se things like transfers, but a lack of investment and priority goes a lot deeper than that for the players and manager. We'd all like to think that things have changed since Zelem made those comments... But we have no idea. Its just blind assumption that something would be done about it, especially with new owners coming in. But it could be the same stuff is still happening
 
Rood said:
A few million is absolute chicken feed in the grand scheme of things and the point is that other clubs are doing it

Not even expecting to keep up with Arsenal/City/Chelsea but we now have a very real potential of falling below midtier clubs like Spurs, LCL & BHA which is pathetic for the biggest club in the country
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The women's team isn't the biggest club in the country though?
We have always had a wage bill similar to that of Brighton so we have been massively punching above our weight, I don't see why we should artificially inflate the team going against the principles of bringing through youth by splashing cash the team hasn't got.
 
Ubik said:
Are you talking about revenue? "Budget" is entirely self-imposed according to your own goals. So yes, I would like a larger budget for the women's team, so that a United team will benefit greatly from a relatively small additional outlay from the perspective of the club. I'm aware that Jim'll Brexit won't want to do this, and that is the source of my complaint.
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The women's team have only just created a profit, before that they were running at a substantial loss.
Budgets will be scaled accordingly to this, and has been, as wages and expenditure on the team has increased by nearly a fifth from last season.
 
Rood said:
The actual concern now rather than doing better is that we could do much worse with the likes of LCL & Spurs investing a fair bit in the Women's team this year

I expect the club will at least spend the Malard money on a couple of half decent signings, whether there is any more money after that is the big question
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I've been one of few posters around here recently who has been optimistic that the club would come through and provide us with a few more good signings in this window -- at least enough to replace the three who have left. I don't feel that way anymore. I now think it is likely that the club will say they've already signed five players (two transfers and three from the Academy) and they're not spending any more this year. They've now made clear that they don't care if the team is competitive in the league for the next several years or so, and that the senior team will function like just a higher Academy level. I hope I'm wrong, but that's the message I'm hearing from them.

Worse yet, I'm very concerned that in light of this we might lose several other top players who want to compete for trophies and play in Europe rather than participate in a developmental program for which trophies now look to be exceedingly unlikely. Malard might just be the first.
 
Lobster11 said:
I've been one of few posters around here recently who has been optimistic that the club would come through and provide us with a few more good signings in this window -- at least enough to replace the three who have left. I don't feel that way anymore. I now think it is likely that the club will say they've already signed five players (two transfers and three from the Academy) and they're not spending any more this year. They've now made clear that they don't care if the team is competitive in the league for the next several years or so, and that the senior team will function like just a higher Academy level. I hope I'm wrong, but that's the message I'm hearing from them.

Worse yet, I'm very concerned that in light of this we might lose several other top players who want to compete for trophies and play in Europe rather than participate in a developmental program for which trophies now look to be exceedingly unlikely. Malard might just be the first.
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It had always felt very unlikely to me that Toone would leave, but wouldn't be surprised at all at this point. Le Tissier probably has a price, too.
 
Ubik said:
It had always felt very unlikely to me that Toone would leave, but wouldn't be surprised at all at this point. Le Tissier probably has a price, too.
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Yep, they want to stay in the England squad and the way it’s going they’ll not be able to shine at this club for much longer. Sad times.
 
Champ said:
The women's team isn't the biggest club in the country though?
We have always had a wage bill similar to that of Brighton so we have been massively punching above our weight, I don't see why we should artificially inflate the team going against the principles of bringing through youth by splashing cash the team hasn't got.
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Our revenue is 300% higher than BHA - if you aren't embarrassed that we spend the same as them on our women's team then you are in the wrong forum

Not only that - they are spending £80m on building a purpose built stadium for the women's team:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/ce8p01x34pyo
 
Lobster11 said:
I've been one of few posters around here recently who has been optimistic that the club would come through and provide us with a few more good signings in this window -- at least enough to replace the three who have left. I don't feel that way anymore. I now think it is likely that the club will say they've already signed five players (two transfers and three from the Academy) and they're not spending any more this year. They've now made clear that they don't care if the team is competitive in the league for the next several years or so, and that the senior team will function like just a higher Academy level. I hope I'm wrong, but that's the message I'm hearing from them.

Worse yet, I'm very concerned that in light of this we might lose several other top players who want to compete for trophies and play in Europe rather than participate in a developmental program for which trophies now look to be exceedingly unlikely. Malard might just be the first.
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Your optimism was one of the few things that kept me doubting my lack of faith. Sad to see it gone too.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
I wanted Skinner gone after last season but this summer has shown again that the owners don't really care about the women's team
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Yeah just hope Women's team doesn't go to the wall and we are left without one for years again like we saw from 05-18. I wouldn't be surprised when you consider INEOS don't prioritise it whatsoever so what do you expect to happen
 
pacifictheme said:
Isn't this the second manager running who has quit over a lack of investment in the woman's team?
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He is the second United manager in succession to step down because of the hierarchy and the first United to step down was Casey Stoney when confronted the higher ups of the poor facilities and investment
 
Rood said:
Our revenue is 300% higher than BHA - if you aren't embarrassed that we spend the same as them on our women's team then you are in the wrong forum

Not only that - they are spending £80m on building a purpose built stadium for the women's team:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/ce8p01x34pyo
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I guess it comes down to if you want a competition that isn't sustainable and relies on the men's game rather than standing on its own two feet?

I for one believe the club is going down the correct route, with heavy investment into the academy, and running a profitable team, rather than that of say Arsenal or Brighton which heavily rely on the men's team to sustain wages and transfer fees.
 
Champ said:
I guess it comes down to if you want a competition that isn't sustainable and relies on the men's game rather than standing on its own two feet?

I for one believe the club is going down the correct route, with heavy investment into the academy, and running a profitable team, rather than that of say Arsenal or Brighton which heavily rely on the men's team to sustain wages and transfer fees.
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So you are happy for the Women's team to go backwards while other clubs invest and improve?

And what heavy investment into our Academy are you talking about?
The fact is that our Girls Academy is still an amateur operation compared to our peers as we were late to the WSL party - it will actually take years of time and investment to bring it up to speed so we cannot rely on that

Skinner knows this and it's exactly why he's resigned
 
Is the idea that we concentrate on our youth system and buying not too pricey young talents and then where players become good enough to command a sizeable fee we take it, promote/buy some new talented kids and cycle like this forever?

I think that is better than having no senior women's team again but it will be a very unappealing one to follow.
 
DOTA said:
Is the idea that we concentrate on our youth system and buying not too pricey young talents and then where players become good enough to command a sizeable fee we take it, promote/buy some new talented kids and cycle like this forever?

I think that is better than having no senior women's team again but it will be a very unappealing one to follow.
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We might have one but it might be playing in WSL2.
 
Scanny said:
Your optimism was one of the few things that kept me doubting my lack of faith. Sad to see it gone too.
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Wait, wait... hold the phone! I just went back to the Athletic article that someone linked in one of these threads. According to that, at the same time the club announced this change of direction towards internal development they also announced that they were going to make two more signings before the start of the season: specifically a left winger and a center (sorry, centre) back. Seems unlikely that we'll also get the midfielder we need, but if these are strong signings we might be in pretty good shape next season. So there's a little optimism for you.

That said, I'm still worried that we will also lose more players before the start of the season, which might wind up negating any gains from new signings. I wish I were more optimistic about this.
 
top1whoisman said:
We might have one but it might be playing in WSL2.
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Yeah, that seems possible.

Goes without saying I guess but I really hope either the plans are rather less drastic than the recent signs are making us fear or that people can somehow shame those in charge enough to bring about a rethink.

This is feeling quite sad at the moment.
 
Lobster11 said:
Wait, wait... hold the phone! I just went back to the Athletic article that someone linked in one of these threads. According to that, at the same time the club announced this change of direction towards internal development they also announced that they were going to make two more signings before the start of the season: specifically a left winger and a center (sorry, centre) back. Seems unlikely that we'll also get the midfielder we need, but if these are strong signings we might be in pretty good shape next season. So there's a little optimism for you.

That said, I'm still worried that we will also lose more players before the start of the season, which might wind up negating any gains from new signings. I wish I were more optimistic about this.
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Kind of hoped that we could see a bit of Lucy Newell this season, but if we’re looking for another CB it’s likely she’ll go on loan again.
 
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