Marco Rose | OFFICIAL: Joining Dortmund at the end of the season

hungrywing

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Yes, which is your Shankly<->Paisley shuffle and seamless transition.

We cannot keep making the same mistake over and over. It's time for a progressive coach and modern conceptualisation.
If you walk into the club boardroom and use that word, I guarantee their first impulse will be to think that you're talking about car insurance.
 

Inigo Montoya

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Exactly this. You just know if Klopp leaves Liverpool they are going to get one of Rose Nagelsman or Hasenhüttl even if Poch was available
Klopp isn't leaving that soon though. I think as much as he wants to pursue other projects in his life, he isn't finished with Liverpool just yet. Eventually though these hot house jobs take their toll.

The above 3 are more Klopp type managers than Poch... I'd be happy with any of them but I do think Nagelsmann is at least one more season away from a Utd or Liverpool job.
 

Inigo Montoya

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The only thing that puts me off Rose is that he plays the diamond in midfield, or so i believe? Just a personal thing but I hate not having wingers/wide attacking players and I think any manager relying on our fullbacks to provide width will struggle.
He's far more flexible than that though. He's not dogmatically sticking to it. It works against a lot of teams in the BL but then he does have a monster in Zakaria anchoring the midfield
 

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The only thing that puts me off Rose is that he plays the diamond in midfield, or so i believe? Just a personal thing but I hate not having wingers/wide attacking players and I think any manager relying on our fullbacks to provide width will struggle.
He mainly uses a nominal 4231 but there is a lot of movement and adjustments from game to game.
 

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The only thing that puts me off Rose is that he plays the diamond in midfield, or so i believe? Just a personal thing but I hate not having wingers/wide attacking players and I think any manager relying on our fullbacks to provide width will struggle.
He plays with wide forwards mostly in a 4-2-3-1
 

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Would he want to leave Gladbach after joining them in 2019? I really like the cut of his jib. Hope we go for him.
 

He'sRaldo

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Klopp isn't leaving that soon though. I think as much as he wants to pursue other projects in his life, he isn't finished with Liverpool just yet. Eventually though these hot house jobs take their toll.

The above 3 are more Klopp type managers than Poch... I'd be happy with any of them but I do think Nagelsmann is at least one more season away from a Utd or Liverpool job.
Klopp is a superb man manager, are the others of the same ilk?

From what I've seen of them they seem more to be tactical managers, with Poch being the closest to Klopp as a man manager.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Yes, which is your Shankly<->Paisley shuffle and seamless transition.

We cannot keep making the same mistake over and over. It's time for a progressive coach and modern conceptualisation.
This will happen in 2028 as right now only some of us fans are desperate for this to happen. The rest of the fans see these as "hipster" choices and the board via their 4 appointments clearly don't value it either.
 

AaronRedDevil

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He's doing good at the moment. But he's just a flavour of the month. Have you lads learned nothing?
 

Adnan

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This will happen in 2028 as right now only some of us fans are desperate for this to happen. The rest of the fans see these as "hipster" choices and the board via their 4 appointments clearly don't value it either.
I think you're spot on mate..
 

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He's far more flexible than that though. He's not dogmatically sticking to it. It works against a lot of teams in the BL but then he does have a monster in Zakaria anchoring the midfield
He mainly uses a nominal 4231 but there is a lot of movement and adjustments from game to game.
He plays with wide forwards mostly in a 4-2-3-1
Fair enough, I was under the impression he played with a diamond with some flexibility. I haven't seen them play much beyond Bundesliga highlights to be honest, but I was watching a tactical breakdown from a game vs Bayern and why his press failed against them.
 

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Fair enough, I was under the impression he played with a diamond with some flexibility. I haven't seen them play much beyond Bundesliga highlights to be honest, but I was watching a tactical breakdown from a game vs Bayern and why his press failed against them.
That game against Bayern was one of the rare times he tried it.
 

hungrywing

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Fair enough, I was under the impression he played with a diamond with some flexibility. I haven't seen them play much beyond Bundesliga highlights to be honest, but I was watching a tactical breakdown from a game vs Bayern and why his press failed against them.
For what it's worth, his wiki says he plays 4312.
 

Inigo Montoya

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Klopp is a superb man manager, are the others of the same ilk?

From what I've seen of them they seem more to be tactical managers, with Poch being the closest to Klopp as a man manager.
If they are getting the best out of their players and Hassenhutl did that with Southampton after the awful 9 goal thrashing, then I’d say they are good man managers.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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This will happen in 2028 as right now only some of us fans are desperate for this to happen. The rest of the fans see these as "hipster" choices and the board via their 4 appointments clearly don't value it either.
I think it will happen if/when Pochettino fails (he's clearly our next manager). After Pochettino we would have tried the different types of coaches that could get us back to winning - Manager chosen by Ferguson (Moyes), Manager with experience that has won everything (LVG, Mourinho), Ex player (Ole).

Maybe I'm mistaken but I think the club was actually planning a structural change or DoF at the time Ole was interim. But Ole did well and came with all his plans and ideas that the club liked and decided to go with him. Now if Ole leaves, the next manager will be Pochettino who doesn't work with a DoF and suits our current structure. That's why I think it's when or if he fails here the club will finally decide on getting a DoF and one of those modern progressive managers
 

hubbuh

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He's doing good at the moment. But he's just a flavour of the month. Have you lads learned nothing?
Learned nothing from what? Our last 3 'big' appointments (Ole obviously doesn't count as he got the job based on his connection to the club) were all very established managers with little flexibility that all contributed to the mess we currently find ourselves in! We need to flip the script and go with someone that is more progressive and can instil a positive philosophy throughout the club.
 

hungrywing

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Yeah I saw that when I was having a look but I thought that could be interpreted as a diamond depending on how the players in the 3 operate.
Me too, but then I flashed back to years of following formation discussion on an internet message board and I remembered that a diamond is always '442 diamond'.

Klopp is a superb man manager, are the others of the same ilk?

From what I've seen of them they seem more to be tactical managers, with Poch being the closest to Klopp as a man manager.
Needs to be highlighted. Klopp has a lot of overlap with SAF in that department. This is his x-factor. A Klopp without that doesn't do what he did at any of those clubs.
 

hubbuh

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This will happen in 2028 as right now only some of us fans are desperate for this to happen. The rest of the fans see these as "hipster" choices and the board via their 4 appointments clearly don't value it either.
If we don't get it by now I doubt we ever will. By the time the top brass DO cotton on the game will have no doubt changed. For the love of all that is holy why do they still not get it.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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He would be my ideal choice to replace Ole.

But I am like 100% convinced the board won't go for him.
 

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If our Directors had any sense, we would at least make contact with him.

However I'd be very surprised if our board of cash flow experts are actually aware of his existence.
 

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The only thing that puts me off Rose is that he plays the diamond in midfield, or so i believe? Just a personal thing but I hate not having wingers/wide attacking players and I think any manager relying on our fullbacks to provide width will struggle.
The best thing about Rose is how he percieves the game and what he puts in place in accordance with what he's up against as well as with what he has at his disposal. That flexibility and understanding means he isn't rigid, but at the same time, his principles remain the same, and he tries his best to bring whatever plan he has in place to the opposition.

We've had a set of one-way, staid coaches now who have whatever they believe to be the correct method and nothing else; no flexibility; no ideas or concepts outside of their initial one and gameplans that rely on the opponent doing one thing that enabled them to do their thing (particularly counter-attacking). Rose presents problems and puzzles for the opposition to figure out, then he has a contingency and another, and another. His teams are not found wanting tactically and no matter what they switch to, the players are drilled well enough to still understand their roles within which pseudo-construct he's got them playing. At all times, there's a reason and a purpose to what's going on and all the players have to do is their bit inside that remit. It makes their lives easier and enables Rose to put his tactical mind to the task at hand.

You'll never see him look baffled or without an idea he's wanting to execute, which is so far removed from our collection of managerial traffic cones when things don't work out as could required for them to implement their narrow corridor of idea(s).

I wouldn't pin him down to any one system or style of play; he understands his pieces better than most and because of that, things can remain in constant flux. Compared to what we're used to, it would be an absolute revelation to have that level of creative, real time thinking running through our team. That's when fingers can be pointed solely at players, imo. If they can't follow or execute, you can look at the individuals and ask if they're up to it.
If you walk into the club boardroom and use that word, I guarantee their first impulse will be to think that you're talking about car insurance.
Well, as long as they've cars that need an insurance renewal, let's hope they're interested! Whatever way it's sold, with whichever buzzword, it's a long, long time since we've been ahead of the curve in terms of innovation and the daring to try things on the front foot.
This will happen in 2028 as right now only some of us fans are desperate for this to happen. The rest of the fans see these as "hipster" choices and the board via their 4 appointments clearly don't value it either.
I would like to believe that Woodward and co can take stock of what they've tried and why it's failed so spectacularly for the outlay and not re-tread those footsteps with yet another dose of antiquated ideas and methodologies. I don't think Poch is as bad as what we've had in terms of his ideas and a reluctance to modernise, but he's nowhere near the cutting edge of what is storming ahead to all the trophies domestically and internationally. The two most dynamic, aggressive and progressive sides in Europe look like sure things for the CL and PL for the forseeable, and he should want a slice of that pie and thus look at how they are going about achieving what they are for a fraction of our outlay. Hipster or not; progression is tied to performance these days and further still, producing a template that can be followed for a few years yet.

Klopp's final test would be overseeing a proper rebuild once VVD, Mane and Salah are out of the picture, but even if he isn't there that long, he's given the next man that comes in the best possible chance to carry the work on.

I think this goes deeper than what the fans do or do not want and on to what should be perceived as vital for the club in every term from short to long; Woodward and co. shouldn't have a need to listen to anything the fans are saying; simply looking at what's happening in the game should be the biggest prompt of all.
 
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hungrywing

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The best thing about Rose is how he percieves the game and what he puts in place in accordance with what he's up against as well as with what he has at his disposal. That flexibility and understanding means he isn't rigid, but at the same time, his principles remain the same, and he tries his best to bring whatever plan he has in place to the opposition.

We've had a set of one-way, staid coaches now who have whatever they believe to be the correct method and nothing else; no flexibility; no ideas or concepts outside of their initial one and gameplans that rely on the opponent doing one thing that enabled them to do their thing (particularly counter-attacking). Rose presents problems and puzzles for the opposition to figure out, then he has a contingency and another, and another. His teams are not found wanting tactically and no matter what they switch to, the players are drilled well enough to still understand their roles within which pseudo-construct he's got them playing. At all times, there's a reason and a purpose to what's going on and all the players have to do is their bit inside that remit. It makes their lives easier and enables Rose to put his tactical mind to the task at hand.

You'll never see him look baffled or without an idea he's wanting to execute, which is so far removed from our collection of managerial traffic cones when things don't work out as could required for them to implement their narrow corridor of idea(s).

I wouldn't pin him down to any one system or style of play; he understands his pieces better than most and because of that, things can remain in constant flux. Compared to what we're used to, it would be an absolute revelation to have that level of creative, real time thinking running through our team. That's when fingers can be pointed solely at players, imo. If they can't follow or execute, you can look at the individuals and ask if they're up to it.
Well, as long as they've cars that need an insurance renewal, let's hope they're interested! Whatever way it's sold, with whichever buzzword, it's a long, long time since we've been ahead of the curve in terms of innovation and the daring to try things on the front foot.

I would like to believe that Woodward and co can take stock of what they've tried and why it's failed so spectacularly for the outlay and not re-tread those footsteps with yet another dose of antiquated ideas and methodologies. I don't think Poch is as bad as what we've had in terms of his ideas and a reluctance to modernise, but he's nowhere near the cutting edge of what is storming ahead to all the trophies domestically and internationally. The two most dynamic, aggressive and progressive sides in Europe look like sure things for the CL and PL for the forseeable, and he should want a slice of that pie and thus look at how they are going about achieving what they are for a fraction of our outlay. Hipster or not; progression is tied to performance these days and further still, producing a template that can be followed for a few years yet.

Klopp's final test would be overseeing a proper rebuild once VVD, Mane and Salah are out of the picture, but even if he isn't there that long, he's given the next man that comes in the best possible chance to carry the work on.

I think this goes deeper than what the fans do or do not want and on to what should be perceived as vital for the club in every term from short to long; Woodward and co. shouldn't have a need to listen to anything the fans are saying; simply looking at what's happening in the game should be the biggest prompt of all.
I guarantee you if you walk into the club boardroom and give this presentation, their first impulse will be to think that you mentioned Buzzfeed and a possible sponsorship.

Also, you had me at:
Rose presents problems and puzzles for the opposition to figure out, then he has a contingency and another, and another. His teams are not found wanting tactically and no matter what they switch to, the players are drilled well enough to still understand their roles within which pseudo-construct he's got them playing. At all times, there's a reason and a purpose to what's going on and all the players have to do is their bit inside that remit. It makes their lives easier and enables Rose to put his tactical mind to the task at hand.

You'll never see him look baffled or without an idea he's wanting to execute, which is so far removed from our collection of managerial traffic cones when things don't work out as could required for them to implement their narrow corridor of idea(s).

I wouldn't pin him down to any one system or style of play; he understands his pieces better than most and because of that, things can remain in constant flux. Compared to what we're used to, it would be an absolute revelation to have that level of creative, real time thinking running through our team.
 

GenZRed

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What has this guy got over Poch?

Honest question. I'm not set on Poch but he does have PL experience and seems like a tactical guy.
 

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What has this guy got over Poch?

Honest question. I'm not set on Poch but he does have PL experience and seems like a tactical guy.
IMO his team is coached better in transition hence having more variety in the way they go about unlocking the opposition defense.

That doesn't mean Rose will be more successful than Poch but I would say he would be a more exciting choice for those United fans who appreciate attacking football.
 
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pocco

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The best thing about Rose is how he percieves the game and what he puts in place in accordance with what he's up against as well as with what he has at his disposal. That flexibility and understanding means he isn't rigid, but at the same time, his principles remain the same, and he tries his best to bring whatever plan he has in place to the opposition.

We've had a set of one-way, staid coaches now who have whatever they believe to be the correct method and nothing else; no flexibility; no ideas or concepts outside of their initial one and gameplans that rely on the opponent doing one thing that enabled them to do their thing (particularly counter-attacking). Rose presents problems and puzzles for the opposition to figure out, then he has a contingency and another, and another. His teams are not found wanting tactically and no matter what they switch to, the players are drilled well enough to still understand their roles within which pseudo-construct he's got them playing. At all times, there's a reason and a purpose to what's going on and all the players have to do is their bit inside that remit. It makes their lives easier and enables Rose to put his tactical mind to the task at hand.

You'll never see him look baffled or without an idea he's wanting to execute, which is so far removed from our collection of managerial traffic cones when things don't work out as could required for them to implement their narrow corridor of idea(s).

I wouldn't pin him down to any one system or style of play; he understands his pieces better than most and because of that, things can remain in constant flux. Compared to what we're used to, it would be an absolute revelation to have that level of creative, real time thinking running through our team. That's when fingers can be pointed solely at players, imo. If they can't follow or execute, you can look at the individuals and ask if they're up to it.
That sounds promising, pretty much exactly what we need and, like I've said in another thread, perhaps he's one of a few managers right now that would have our whole fanbase behind him from the start. Something that no other manager has had since Fergie, due past negative periods. Maybe it's time we took a chance on an up and coming manager, arriving with a bit of a positivity around them.

The last part I agree with too, I feel like we've got a good squad now and there should be bigger expectations for this season, and the next few, towards becoming a competitive team once again. But whilst we have a manager that doesn't seem to coach his ideas or visibly implement any sort of style consistently, then we can't know which players are performing or just not being utilised correctly.

That's the grey area with Ole. People can blame the players but when we've spent so much on players that were doing well prior to coming, then you have to look at the manager. Especially when he's never really proven himself to be a top level manager or even potentially a top level manager. He was a middle of the road manager that you'd have never heard of had he not been such a big player for us.
 

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It's time for a progressive coach and modern conceptualisation.
The time for that was after LVG.

I've not seen much regarding BMG under Rose, but I've seen some games and he seems to be flexible and most of his players seems to know what they should do. So already multiples better and more relevant than our recent coaches bar LVG who as a possession-oriented coach was going somewhere, albeit slowly.

My only real question is how good is Rose in possession and against compact teams? While the pressing to force a long ball and counterpressing, assuming he has not regressed since his days in Austria, are really something, what happens against the likes of Burnley, CP and West Ham? Is he Pochettino at Spurs where crossing by numbers is the way and recycling the ball in a U pattern, or does he have more tricks?
 

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I guarantee you if you walk into the club boardroom and give this presentation, their first impulse will be to think that you mentioned Buzzfeed and a possible sponsorship.

Also, you had me at:
Rose presents problems and puzzles for the opposition to figure out, then he has a contingency and another, and another. His teams are not found wanting tactically and no matter what they switch to, the players are drilled well enough to still understand their roles within which pseudo-construct he's got them playing. At all times, there's a reason and a purpose to what's going on and all the players have to do is their bit inside that remit. It makes their lives easier and enables Rose to put his tactical mind to the task at hand.

You'll never see him look baffled or without an idea he's wanting to execute, which is so far removed from our collection of managerial traffic cones when things don't work out as could required for them to implement their narrow corridor of idea(s).

I wouldn't pin him down to any one system or style of play; he understands his pieces better than most and because of that, things can remain in constant flux. Compared to what we're used to, it would be an absolute revelation to have that level of creative, real time thinking running through our team.
We've had 4 managers who are, understandably, products of their time and their ideals could not, and will not, stretch beyond that - the greatest trait Fergie had, of all of them, was to move with the times, not matter what they were, he made sure to stay in that loop and work within it always employing the right minds to realise whatever it was that needed to be done to keep us, not only competitive, but on the front foot.
Rose is a product of right now, with ideas and concepts that go well into the future and are re-definable for the upcoming cycle. In other words, it'll be a long time before he's an outdated coach, even if he, like the aforementioned, is merely a product of his era and nothing more.

That'd be my addendum! :lol:
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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The best thing about Rose is how he percieves the game and what he puts in place in accordance with what he's up against as well as with what he has at his disposal. That flexibility and understanding means he isn't rigid, but at the same time, his principles remain the same, and he tries his best to bring whatever plan he has in place to the opposition.

We've had a set of one-way, staid coaches now who have whatever they believe to be the correct method and nothing else; no flexibility; no ideas or concepts outside of their initial one and gameplans that rely on the opponent doing one thing that enabled them to do their thing (particularly counter-attacking). Rose presents problems and puzzles for the opposition to figure out, then he has a contingency and another, and another. His teams are not found wanting tactically and no matter what they switch to, the players are drilled well enough to still understand their roles within which pseudo-construct he's got them playing. At all times, there's a reason and a purpose to what's going on and all the players have to do is their bit inside that remit. It makes their lives easier and enables Rose to put his tactical mind to the task at hand.

You'll never see him look baffled or without an idea he's wanting to execute, which is so far removed from our collection of managerial traffic cones when things don't work out as could required for them to implement their narrow corridor of idea(s).

I wouldn't pin him down to any one system or style of play; he understands his pieces better than most and because of that, things can remain in constant flux. Compared to what we're used to, it would be an absolute revelation to have that level of creative, real time thinking running through our team. That's when fingers can be pointed solely at players, imo. If they can't follow or execute, you can look at the individuals and ask if they're up to it.
Well, as long as they've cars that need an insurance renewal, let's hope they're interested! Whatever way it's sold, with whichever buzzword, it's a long, long time since we've been ahead of the curve in terms of innovation and the daring to try things on the front foot.
And this is what good coaching brings. It makes things so much easier for the players. Too many times Rashford Pogba Martial all try to dribble 2-4 players and that's difficult.
 

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What’s he done at Gladbach to be many posters number one choice?

I’m asking genuinely as I’ve seen very little of him and I would prefer we didn’t just jump for Poch without extensively looking at all other options first.

I notice they are fifth in the Bundesliga behind the likes of Leipzig who have another fan favourite manager.
 

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That sounds promising, pretty much exactly what we need and, like I've said in another thread, perhaps he's one of a few managers right now that would have our whole fanbase behind him from the start. Something that no other manager has had since Fergie, due past negative periods. Maybe it's time we took a chance on an up and coming manager, arriving with a bit of a positivity around them.

The last part I agree with too, I feel like we've got a good squad now and there should be bigger expectations for this season, and the next few, towards becoming a competitive team once again. But whilst we have a manager that doesn't seem to coach his ideas or visibly implement any sort of style consistently, then we can't know which players are performing or just not being utilised correctly.

That's the grey area with Ole. People can blame the players but when we've spent so much on players that were doing well prior to coming, then you have to look at the manager. Especially when he's never really proven himself to be a top level manager or even potentially a top level manager. He was a middle of the road manager that you'd have never heard of had he not been such a big player for us.
Well, theoretically, as a coach, he works with what he has first and foremost, coaching the coach-able and eventually doing away with the uncoach-able amongst them; as LVG showed, even the likes of Smalling can play possession football if trained by a competent enough coach, so I am not so sure how many of our squad are the absolute write-off they're thought of as. I'm not saying we have a team of world beaters nor players who can't be improved upon, but in the interim, there's loads that could be done with the level of talent we have at our disposal if the right coaches got their hands on them.

What we mostly see is what these players look like left to their own devices with no firm ideas or constructs in place for them to follow - to know what they are doing with and without the ball at nearly all times.

People seem to think more gusto would solve the problems of players simply being clueless of what is the best thing for them to be doing as individuals when the pressure is on and their other - individual - team-mates are starting to get flustered because their ideas don't match with their team-mate. If you're responsible for an improvised attack breaking down, and you aren't the most confident individual, you're going to melt that bit more the next time the situation arises where you've got to again make something up on the hop with absolutely no construct to follow.

You can get away with that with genial players, but for most teams, even with high levels of talent, you only want a couple of players winging it with everyone else having very simple remits to follow, that way, everyone can play 'blind' because they know who should be where at any given time, and procedurally, things become automated and very easy indeed. Sure you might lose games, and sure, sometimes it mightn't work out, but you can immediately point the finger at who, or what, has gone wrong when everyone has an idea of the job they're supposed to be doing on the pitch.

Sometimes players can even follow the managers instructions to the wire, and then, the finger is pointed solely at the coach (LVG), but in all instances, things are clear and defined, and so much easier than the ritual running through treacle we have done for nigh on 8 years now.

Rose's teams instantly fill you with wonder and curiosity as to what they/he will come up with next. Much like how, when you watch a Bielsa side in full flow, you're wowed by how such - generally - inferior players can be overwhelming individuals and sides they've no business looking at, on paper.

I do think people would get behind anyone who came to our club and displayed the nous to get us cohesive and flowing in attack and defense. Rose, along with a few others, puts the onus on what we have, rather than what we have to wait for in the the next transfer window, or the next, or the next into perpetuity. If you want to see 'miracles' like O'Shea and Giggs working wonders in central midfield, much to the bemusement of simply everyone, it's coaches like Rose who are most likely to get that tune out of anyone that's here and have players looking better than they are 'supposed' to or have been declared to be.

Think it'd be an absolute breath of fresh air for players and fans alike.
 
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Well, theoretically, as a coach, he works with what he has first and foremost, coaching the coach-able and eventually doing away with the uncoach-able amongst them; as LVG showed, even the likes of Smalling can play possession football if trained by a competent enough coach, so I am not so sure how many of our squad are the absolute write-off they're thought of as. I'm not saying we have a team of world beaters nor players who can't be improved upon, but in the interim, there's loads that could be done with the level of talent we have at our disposal if the right coaches got their hands on them.

What we mostly see is what these players look like left to their own devices with no firm ideas or constructs in place for them to follow - to know what they are doing with and without the ball at nearly all times.

People seem to think more gusto would solve the problems of players simply being clueless of what is the best thing for them to be doing as individuals when the pressure is on and their other - individual - team-mates are starting to get flustered because their ideas don't match with their team-mate. If you're responsible for an improvised attack breaking down, and you aren't the most confident individual, you're going to melt that bit more the next time the situation arises where you've got to again make something up on the hop with absolutely no construct to follow.

You can get away with that with genial players, but for most teams, even with high levels of talent, you only want a couple of players winging it with everyone else having very simple remits to follow, that way, everyone can play 'blind' because they know who should be where at any given time, and procedurally, things become automated and very easy indeed. Sure you might lose games, and sure, sometimes it mightn't work out, but you can immediately point the finger at who, or what, has gone wrong when everyone has an idea of the job they're supposed to be doing on the pitch.

Sometimes players can even follow the managers instructions to the wire, and then, the finger is pointed solely at the coach (LVG), but in all instances, things are clear and defined, and so much easier than the ritual running through treacle we have done for nigh on 8 years now.

Rose's teams instantly fill you with wonder and curiosity as to what they/he will come up with next. Much like how, when you watch a Bielsa side in full flow, you're wowed by how such - generally - inferior players can be overwhelming individuals and sides they've no business looking at, on paper.

I do think people would get behind anyone who came to our club and displayed the nous to get us cohesive and flowing in attack and defense. Rose, along with a few others, puts the onus on what we have, rather than what we have to wait for in the the next transfer window, or the next, or the next into perpetuity. If you want to see 'miracles' like O'Shea and Giggs working wonders in central midfield, much to the bemusement of simply everyone, it's coaches like Rose who are most likely to get that tune out of anyone that's here and have players looking better than they are 'supposed' to or have been declared to be.

Think it'd be an absolute breath of fresh air for players and fans alike.
This post is absolutely spot on.
Rose is a coach that brings his ideas in right from the start and you are quick to see the difference.

This club is terribly passive and to such a degree that things seem to pass us by all the time I would love to see us be progressive for once and see where that would lead us.
For me there isn´t a better suited manager for the club out there I am positive that Rose would get us playing good football in a short space of time.

But of course Poch will be in next because he is tried and tested but I can tell you this much that the next team to get Rose will become a great footballing side.
 

Fortitude

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And this is what good coaching brings. It makes things so much easier for the players. Too many times Rashford Pogba Martial all try to dribble 2-4 players and that's difficult.
Yes. Too often our hero play is assessed by its end product and the whys and wherefores of why it came about in the first place are overlooked. Pogba is seen as a ball hog because he won't release the ball until an actual option opens up for him to make the progressive pass forward he's looking to execute, often in the interim, he gets swarmed and then dispossessed with nobody making openings for him to release to.

Jose did not coach Zlatan - Zlatan, just by being a very good forward, knew what positions to take up and how to make himself available, in turn, Pogba was in his element hitting early balls into an 'open' Zlatan constantly. Simple action and reaction creates the chain, but that level of intuitiveness comes with world class, and just below, players which we're not at on an individual level, so our players need that coaching to make movements that create the openings on a constant basis so that they don't have to keep doing the hero stuff or turning in on themselves and watching plays dissolve as quickly as they started up.

As soon as one players is on the ball, others should be starting a chain that creates multiples options and angles for him. It then just becomes a case of, the better the talent, the more ambitious the option he can try to take on - if he's given the remit to be that expansive - but even in playing it short and simple, the better the technique, the faster and more bedazzling even those basic chains look.
 

Champ

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What was Rose's mistake? Can you elaborate and explain in detail of possible..
Going in with the diamond formation, allowing Munich to press so easily and to bypass the Gladbach press due to an overload in midfield.
It also left space on the wings for Bayern to exploit, which let's be honest is a basic error against Munich.
Quite obvious he made a mistake as he changed things early in the second half when it was obvious things weren't improving.
 

hungrywing

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...
What we mostly see is what these players look like left to their own devices with no firm ideas or constructs in place for them to follow - to know what they are doing with and without the ball at nearly all times.

People seem to think more gusto would solve the problems of players simply being clueless of what is the best thing for them to be doing as individuals when the pressure is on and their other - individual - team-mates are starting to get flustered because their ideas don't match with their team-mate. If you're responsible for an improvised attack breaking down, and you aren't the most confident individual, you're going to melt that bit more the next time the situation arises where you've got to again make something up on the hop with absolutely no construct to follow.

You can get away with that with genial players, but for most teams, even with high levels of talent, you only want a couple of players winging it with everyone else having very simple remits to follow, that way, everyone can play 'blind' because they know who should be where at any given time, and procedurally, things become automated and very easy indeed..
I'm just going to point out that this passage is what happens in music, as well. Particularly in Jazz improv. (Blues as well, but to a much less musically-involved extent)

Something something SAF was a rock-God, and Klopp/Pep hipster Jazz band-leaders (with the talent to back up their meticulous intellectual deconstructions).

Point is, I agree; some of our 'superstars' need structure. There's a line between that and smothering creativity, but let's cross that bridge when we approach reaching the cusp of being on that horizon.
 

Champ

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German managers certainly doing well


Rose
Tuchel
Klopp
Nanglesman

:confused:
Is Tuchel doing well??

I suppose that's a question for another thread!