Marco Rose | OFFICIAL: Joining Dortmund at the end of the season

SCP

Full Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2016
Messages
5,939
Location
Lisbon
Supports
Sporting Clube Portugal
He must be. I'm just not sure why that's funny. The guy did a great analysis of one of Rose's games, Rose asked him to provide advice on some stuff, that went great, and so Rose hired him full-time. Maybe I'm missing something, but this makes all the sense in the world to me...?
Yes I don't know how he behaves in German Football, but a couple of years ago on that blog he was quite popular.
 

Champ

Refuses to acknowledge existence of Ukraine
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
9,888
Is Rose trying his best to make sure Dortmund get Champions league for next season :lol:
No wins in four now!! Slipping down the table.
 

Hansi Fick

New Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2020
Messages
5,057
Supports
FC Bayern
To quote Joseph M. Fischer: Excuse me, I am not convinced.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
15,567
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
I don't think it was bad from a coaching perspective.
City pressed very high up the pitch and with great intensity, I think given their players Gladbach coped quite well with that and they were well organized defensively: judging by xG, aside from Ginter's brain fart, City just created the two chances they converted. For Gladbach it all fell apart when it came to getting behind City's last line, they made it into promising positions a couple of times during the first half and they had a good spell before City's second goal, but I feel like that moment Zakaria outmuscles the defender and then just completely bottles the final pass sums up well why they could barely create any chances or shots even.

Their upcoming games are pretty brutal: Leipzig, then the Rosico against Dortmund in the cup and Leverkusen to finish things up. Despite what Eberl said these games will probably determine whether Rose gets to see out the season. Losing 0-2 tonight probably means another reason to hold on to him is gone.
 

DoneDaDa

Full Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2019
Messages
619
Location
Canada
Supports
Toronto FC
I don't think it was bad from a coaching perspective.
City pressed very high up the pitch and with great intensity, I think given their players Gladbach coped quite well with that and they were well organized defensively: judging by xG, aside from Ginter's brain fart, City just created the two chances they converted. For Gladbach it all fell apart when it came to getting behind City's last line, they made it into promising positions a couple of times during the first half and they had a good spell before City's second goal, but I feel like that moment Zakaria outmuscles the defender and then just completely bottles the final pass sums up well why they could barely create any chances or shots even.

Their upcoming games are pretty brutal: Leipzig, then the Rosico against Dortmund in the cup and Leverkusen to finish things up. Despite what Eberl said these games will probably determine whether Rose gets to see out the season. Losing 0-2 tonight probably means another reason to hold on to him is gone.
City have also won 19 in a row across all competition, 26 games unbeaten run and have kept a clean sheet it 6 of their 7 CL games, people assume Gladbach stood a chance? :lol:

It would’ve been a surprised if they won or even got a draw.

I only saw the first half as it was a boring affair and didn’t think they did too bad, the lad losing a header BSilva should be the one getting questioned here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cheimoon

rotherham_red

Full Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2005
Messages
7,407
Another one of the founding members was doing youth work for Hajduk Split last I heard, two others are sports journalists, one of the more recent writers is working as a coach for FC St. Gallen, another one as a scout for HSV. Christian Streich once complained that he's working all week on his tactics and the next day he can read everything on a blog and as far as I know Tuchel invited some of the writers to some kind of seminar once. I don't think you can expect much more credentials from a free to access blog.
And given that zonalmarking.com was basically the peak of analysis when they started out I think they have made a lasting impact, at least in the sphere of German fans who are interested in tactics.
Zonalmarking another grade A contrarian twat.
 

SER19

Full Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
12,478
Imagine overseeing a rebuild of a club with a great history, getting through the groups, then just getting pushed aside by a fake football club. There's something so grim about it all and Rose can't be blamed. Should AC Milan finally return to the fray next year, city would just dispatch them too. Rebuilding a club now pretty much requires an owner like city's
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,861
Location
England
Imagine overseeing a rebuild of a club with a great history, getting through the groups, then just getting pushed aside by a fake football club. There's something so grim about it all and Rose can't be blamed. Should AC Milan finally return to the fray next year, city would just dispatch them too. Rebuilding a club now pretty much requires an owner like city's
 

dbs235

Full Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
1,871
Would be incredibly harsh to judge him on tonight's game. At the minute it seems like the only team that stands a chance against City is Bayern.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,861
Location
England
I don't think it was bad from a coaching perspective.
City pressed very high up the pitch and with great intensity, I think given their players Gladbach coped quite well with that and they were well organized defensively: judging by xG, aside from Ginter's brain fart, City just created the two chances they converted. For Gladbach it all fell apart when it came to getting behind City's last line, they made it into promising positions a couple of times during the first half and they had a good spell before City's second goal, but I feel like that moment Zakaria outmuscles the defender and then just completely bottles the final pass sums up well why they could barely create any chances or shots even.

Their upcoming games are pretty brutal: Leipzig, then the Rosico against Dortmund in the cup and Leverkusen to finish things up. Despite what Eberl said these games will probably determine whether Rose gets to see out the season. Losing 0-2 tonight probably means another reason to hold on to him is gone.
I think it might be best for Gladbach if he leaves with immediate effect. The players know he's gone in 12 weeks either way so motivating them for games might be a issue with so much uncertainty.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
15,567
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
I think it might be best for Gladbach if he leaves with immediate effect. The players know he's gone in 12 weeks either way so motivating them for games might be a issue with so much uncertainty.
It's hard to tell how the dynamic of this issue is on the inside, but even if they sack him right now (which Eberl can't really do as long as they stay in the domestic cup, because he comitted on Rose with the public) the replacement would be just as much of a lame duck, since as far as I know every single candidate that's been named is currently under contract. They can't even take the same route as Dortmund, since Rose will be taking his assistants with him.
One could also ask whether it's just Rose's situation that's the problem or how much the uncertain future of several players also has an impact.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,861
Location
England
It's hard to tell how the dynamic of this issue is on the inside, but even if they sack him right now (which Eberl can't really do as long as they stay in the domestic cup, because he comitted on Rose with the public) the replacement would be just as much of a lame duck, since as far as I know every single candidate that's been named is currently under contract. They can't even take the same route as Dortmund, since Rose will be taking his assistants with him.
One could also ask whether it's just Rose's situation that's the problem or how much the uncertain future of several players also has an impact.
It's a very complex situation which is probably made worse with the added uncertainty surrounding the futures of several players as you alluded to.
 

Champ

Refuses to acknowledge existence of Ukraine
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
9,888
I think it might be best for Gladbach if he leaves with immediate effect. The players know he's gone in 12 weeks either way so motivating them for games might be a issue with so much uncertainty.
With all due respect, the rot set in way before the Dortmund news came out.

February has been an absolute car crash for Rose and Gladbach.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,861
Location
England
With all due respect, the rot set in way before the Dortmund news came out.

February has been an absolute car crash for Rose and Gladbach.
With the squad he had top 4 was the verty best he could do. Also Zakaria who is a key player missed a lot of games which made matters worse. I'm not really surprised with how things have gone tbf, there's only so much one can do with such a limited squad.
 

Champ

Refuses to acknowledge existence of Ukraine
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
9,888
With the squad he had top 4 was the verty best he could do. Also Zakaria who is a key player missed a lot of games which made matters worse. I'm not really surprised with how things have gone tbf, there's only so much one can do with such a limited squad.
Progress or consistency would have been Gladbachs and Roses aim this season, instead they find themselves 12 points worse off this season then at the same stage last season.
The drop off from last season is alarming really. With no wins in their last four league games, effectively fighting a losing battle in the Champions League, 9 points away from the top four, it really hasn't been a stellar season so far.
 

Bebestation

Im a doctor btw, my IQ destroys yours
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
11,862
Was Zakaria good against City? Although they lost - was there anything shining about him as a CDM?
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,861
Location
England
Progress or consistency would have been Gladbachs and Roses aim this season, instead they find themselves 12 points worse off this season then at the same stage last season.
The drop off from last season is alarming really. With no wins in their last four league games, effectively fighting a losing battle in the Champions League, 9 points away from the top four, it really hasn't been a stellar season so far.
Progress or consistency is very difficult to achieve when you're hamstrung by Covid and are unable to improve upon a limited squad with games coming thick and fast due to the scheduling. So the drop off in form was predicted by some in this very thread.

Gladbach progressing from a group consisting of Real Madrid, Inter and Shakhtar was a good achievement considering the talent and experience the aforementioned 3 teams had over Gladbach. Getting knocked out by a club with state backing was expected but Gladbach have more than punched above their weight in the UCL.

Also don't forget that it was Di Marzio who first broke the news about Rose agreeing to join BVB which was in December last year, December 13th to be exact.
 

Inigo Montoya

Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
38,543
Was Zakaria good against City? Although they lost - was there anything shining about him as a CDM?
I barely noticed him but it’s difficult with that side to assess him. City were their usual dominant self and kept possession well. It’s hard to know what to do when your a good side against them let alone a poor one like BMG. His problem is keeping injury free and that’s always going to be at the back of my mind.
I wouldn’t say he was any less or more effective than Bissouma but we’re comparing2 very different leagues
 

pocco

loco
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
22,095
Location
Keep a clean shit tomorrow, United is my final bus
If OGS had the backing this season then he would of had a proper title challenge. Him wanting Grealish and Sancho would have improved us tenfold.
If we had Grealish and Sancho then I think a lot of managers could do something with our squad :lol: That's like fantasy stuff, adding another £200m worth of attackers to an already incredibly expensive squad.
 

Champ

Refuses to acknowledge existence of Ukraine
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
9,888
Progress or consistency is very difficult to achieve when you're hamstrung by Covid and are unable to improve upon a limited squad with games coming thick and fast due to the scheduling. So the drop off in form was predicted by some in this very thread.

Gladbach progressing from a group consisting of Real Madrid, Inter and Shakhtar was a good achievement considering the talent and experience the aforementioned 3 teams had over Gladbach. Getting knocked out by a club with state backing was expected but Gladbach have more than punched above their weight in the UCL.

Also don't forget that it was Di Marzio who first broke the news about Rose agreeing to join BVB which was in December last year, December 13th to be exact.
Every club has been impacted, yet the clubs above Gladbach in the league bar Dortmund are all consistent to last season.
Sorry, but Rose does not get a free pass on that, every club is in the same boat.

Di Marzio broke a story based on rumour and conjecture which so happened to be correct.
Again, that doesn't excuse the poor form and drop off that Gladbach are experiencing this season.

The progress from the group was impressive, I expected a third place finish for Gladbach, however they took advantage of a poor Inter showing and a lethargic Real.

The league form would be extremely worrying for most European chasing sides however.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,861
Location
England
[.
Every club has been impacted, yet the clubs above Gladbach in the league bar Dortmund are all consistent to last season.
Sorry, but Rose does not get a free pass on that, every club is in the same boat.

Di Marzio broke a story based on rumour and conjecture which so happened to be correct.
Again, that doesn't excuse the poor form and drop off that Gladbach are experiencing this season.

The progress from the group was impressive, I expected a third place finish for Gladbach, however they took advantage of a poor Inter showing and a lethargic Real.

The league form would be extremely worrying for most European chasing sides however.
The clubs above Gladbach either had no European competition to deal with or were in the Europa league where the early stages of the competition can easily be navigated by playing weakened teams. So yes they had a advantage and could rest players in preparation for league games. Leverkusen had Hapoel Beer Sheva, Slavia Prague and Nice in their group. Wolfsburg, Hertha, Frankfurt didn't even qualify for European competition. So yes, Covid hit Gladbach harder due to the volume of games they had to navigate both in the BuLi and in the UCL.

I didn't include BVB, Leipzig and Bayern in the above group due to all 3 of those clubs expected to finish above Gladbach due to having far superior squads IMO.

Di Marzio was correct and Rose had agreed to join BVB several months prior to when it was made official. He even gave a press conference to end several months of speculation by confirming the reports.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
15,567
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
The clubs above Gladbach either had no European competition to deal with or were in the Europa league where the early stages of the competition can easily be navigated by playing weakened teams. So yes they had a advantage and could rest players in preparation for league games. Leverkusen had Hapoel Beer Sheva, Slavia Prague and Nice in their group. Wolfsburg, Hertha, Frankfurt didn't even qualify for European competition. So yes, Covid hit Gladbach harder due to the volume of games they had to navigate both in the BuLi and in the UCL.

I didn't include BVB, Leipzig and Bayern in the above group due to all 3 of those clubs expected to finish above Gladbach due to having far superior squads IMO.

Di Marzio was correct and Rose had agreed to join BVB several months prior to when it was made official. He even gave a press conference to end several months of speculation by confirming the reports.
Even Bayern are clearly affected by their schedule:

Their defense especially. Honestly if this season was judged without context (which it shouldn't, unless you're one of the caf analysts of course) then people would probably question whether Flick is the right man for the job.

I wouldn't say Di Marzio is relevant to how this plays out either. His name carries little weight in Germany. Eberl and Rose themselves gave the rumours a lot of weight very early on: When you're a player and you see your DoF telling the media "oh, well what can you do if someone wants to leave?" and you see your coach telling the media "I'm so incredibly focused on today's match that it's just impossible to answer any question about my future", then even the slow ones can put 1+1 together.

It's also worth noting that in the leauge Thuram went from 0.74 G+A-PK per 90 to 0.42. While Plea went down from 0.84 to 0.34. Meanwhile in the CL Thuram registered a 0.67 and Plea 1.23(!).
 
Last edited:

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,861
Location
England
Even Bayern are clearly affected by their schedule:

Their defense especially. Honestly if this season was judged without context (which it shouldn't, unless you're one of the caf analysts of course) then people would probably question whether Flick is the right man for the job.

I wouldn't say Di Marzio is relevant to how this plays out either. His name carries little weight in Germany. Eberl and Rose themselves gave the rumours a lot of weight very early on: When you're a player and you see your DoF telling the media "oh, well what can you do if someone wants to leave?" and you see your coach telling the media "I'm so incredibly focused on today's match that it's just impossible to answer any question about my future", then even the slow ones can put 1+1 together.
I agree and I remember discussing this with you months prior and you said Covid could affect Gladbach with Rose having to juggle both the BuLi and the Champions League games. But unfortunately certain posters want to constantly find faults without taking on board the context of the situation from people who actually watch Gladbach regularly.
 

VivaObertan

Transfer Voyeur
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
2,469
Location
Pardew 'wanted pace'
If we had Grealish and Sancho then I think a lot of managers could do something with our squad :lol: That's like fantasy stuff, adding another £200m worth of attackers to an already incredibly expensive squad.
Pep had another fantasy summer, another £100m in defence with Torres to boot.

I think it's a valid point that if United were able to get Sancho or Freakish, and City were unable to get Días, the top two would probably be reversed right now!
 

Champ

Refuses to acknowledge existence of Ukraine
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
9,888
[.

The clubs above Gladbach either had no European competition to deal with or were in the Europa league where the early stages of the competition can easily be navigated by playing weakened teams. So yes they had a advantage and could rest players in preparation for league games. Leverkusen had Hapoel Beer Sheva, Slavia Prague and Nice in their group. Wolfsburg, Hertha, Frankfurt didn't even qualify for European competition. So yes, Covid hit Gladbach harder due to the volume of games they had to navigate both in the BuLi and in the UCL.

I didn't include BVB, Leipzig and Bayern in the above group due to all 3 of those clubs expected to finish above Gladbach due to having far superior squads IMO.

Di Marzio was correct and Rose had agreed to join BVB several months prior to when it was made official. He even gave a press conference to end several months of speculation by confirming the reports.
Wow, you
[.

The clubs above Gladbach either had no European competition to deal with or were in the Europa league where the early stages of the competition can easily be navigated by playing weakened teams. So yes they had a advantage and could rest players in preparation for league games. Leverkusen had Hapoel Beer Sheva, Slavia Prague and Nice in their group. Wolfsburg, Hertha, Frankfurt didn't even qualify for European competition. So yes, Covid hit Gladbach harder due to the volume of games they had to navigate both in the BuLi and in the UCL.

I didn't include BVB, Leipzig and Bayern in the above group due to all 3 of those clubs expected to finish above Gladbach due to having far superior squads IMO.

Di Marzio was correct and Rose had agreed to join BVB several months prior to when it was made official. He even gave a press conference to end several months of speculation by confirming the reports.
Wow,

So essentially Gladbach playing six European games has led to a massive decline in terms of league form?? Thats a problem in itself is it not?

Face it, Rose has so far this season led Gladbach to a worse position in the league with minimal if any progress unless they go on a winning run, which by your rationale, by being out of Europe, they should!

There league drop off is alarming, theres no two ways about it, and 6 extra games should not do that to a team.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,861
Location
England
Wow, you

Wow,

So essentially Gladbach playing six European games has led to a massive decline in terms of league form?? Thats a problem in itself is it not?

Face it, Rose has so far this season led Gladbach to a worse position in the league with minimal if any progress unless they go on a winning run, which by your rationale, by being out of Europe, they should!

There league drop off is alarming, theres no two ways about it, and 6 extra games should not do that to a team.
No it's not a problem at all. It's the price a limited squad has to pay for playing in the UCL in a unprecedented season due to Covid. And I'm not sure why you keep bringing up last season and comparing it with the current one after all I've explained.

Yes it does look like it will be a worse position this season compared to last season, but I've already explained that in my previous post in response to you.

The 6 games in the UCL aren't the only contributing factor here as I've explained in this thread. But I wouldn't expect you to understand that considering you have formed opinions on Rose and Gladbach via a Google search and have even argued with people about a game which Gladbach lost in the past over a short match report.
 

Champ

Refuses to acknowledge existence of Ukraine
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
9,888
Even Bayern are clearly affected by their schedule:

Their defense especially. Honestly if this season was judged without context (which it shouldn't, unless you're one of the caf analysts of course) then people would probably question whether Flick is the right man for the job.

I wouldn't say Di Marzio is relevant to how this plays out either. His name carries little weight in Germany. Eberl and Rose themselves gave the rumours a lot of weight very early on: When you're a player and you see your DoF telling the media "oh, well what can you do if someone wants to leave?" and you see your coach telling the media "I'm so incredibly focused on today's match that it's just impossible to answer any question about my future", then even the slow ones can put 1+1 together.

It's also worth noting that in the leauge Thuram went from 0.74 G+A-PK per 90 to 0.42. While Plea went down from 0.84 to 0.34. Meanwhile in the CL Thuram registered a 0.67 and Plea 1.23(!).
Where are you getting this data from, as I have Bayern as being top after 22 games in 19/20 with a total of 46 points.

Am i incorrect?
 

Champ

Refuses to acknowledge existence of Ukraine
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
9,888
No it's not a problem at all. It's the price a limited squad has to pay for playing in the UCL in a unprecedented season due to Covid. And I'm not sure why you keep bringing up last season and comparing it with the current one after all I've explained.

Yes it does look like it will be a worse position this season compared to last season, but I've already explained that in my previous post in response to you.

The 6 games in the UCL aren't the only contributing factor here as I've explained in this thread. But I wouldn't expect you to understand that considering you have formed opinions on Rose and Gladbach via a Google search and have even argued with people about a game which Gladbach lost in the past over a short match report.
The last Bastian of someone who is struggling to find reason....try to belittle the other person's facts.
That's fine, but progress can only be measured by what's gone before, hence using last season as a barometer.

I don't have a formed opinion of Rose, it appears you do, I am imparting actual evidence showing a poor run of form and a poor league position so far, whereas you have offered nothing but excuses as to why they are so poor.

The fact remains that they are in a poor position so far this season, and have showed no signs of progress other than a good Champions League group phase.
Something which Gladbach won't see again next season if they don't improve fast!
 

Hansi Fick

New Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2020
Messages
5,057
Supports
FC Bayern
The progress from the difficult CL group, while a awesome achievement as a bottom line, is a bit deceiving since it really was down to Inter's and Real's bottling and not so much Gladbach's brilliance.
Apart from the Shakhtar ties and the first 70 minutes of one Real game, they weren't very convincing, and had Inter managed to beat Shakhtar they'd have been out to EL.
Gladbach did well and held their own in the group, and got lucky to progress, but that's really all there is to it. In terms of quality, they have no business being in the CL knockouts and the league campaign has been disappointing.
 

Champ

Refuses to acknowledge existence of Ukraine
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
9,888
The progress from the difficult CL group, while a awesome achievement as a bottom line, is a bit deceiving since it really was down to Inter's and Real's bottling and not so much Gladbach's brilliance.
Apart from the Shakhtar ties and the first 70 minutes of one Real game, they weren't very convincing, and had Inter managed to beat Shakhtar they'd have been out to EL.
Gladbach did well and held their own in the group, and got lucky to progress, but that's really all there is to it. In terms of quality, they have no business being in the CL knockouts and the league campaign has been disappointing.
Reasoned post,

As a Bayern fan can you offer any insight to the league data posted by do.ob a few posts above for Bayern and see if it is correct? I have different data to that which was posted and would like to know which is correct?

Also, with regards to Rose, hypothetically, saying that Dortmund have the same team as they do now but coached by Rose, would you fear them more or less as an opposition as you would now with Terzic?
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,861
Location
England
The last Bastian of someone who is struggling to find reason....try to belittle the other person's facts.
That's fine, but progress can only be measured by what's gone before, hence using last season as a barometer.

I don't have a formed opinion of Rose, it appears you do, I am imparting actual evidence showing a poor run of form and a poor league position so far, whereas you have offered nothing but excuses as to why they are so poor.

The fact remains that they are in a poor position so far this season, and have showed no signs of progress other than a good Champions League group phase.
Something which Gladbach won't see again next season if they don't improve fast!
Your facts only go as far as what you see after the 'fact'. I'm contexualizing what you're saying and have easily refuted you because I do watch Gladbach play regularly. And I'm sorry you think I'm belittling you because what I said regarding you forming opinions about Gladbach without watching the team play is well documented in this very thread.

Yes I do have a formed opinion on Gladbach and Rose because I watch them play regularly and have consistently said the team Rose has at his disposal isn't very good. How many players from the current Gladbach team would get into the United first 11?

They aren't in a ideal position but it's not a big surprise to me because I had doubts Gladbach could repeat what they did last season league position wise with Leverkusen IMO having a better team and a very good coach to boot.