Marcos Alonso to stop taking the knee

Ananke

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When Farage starts praising you on things related to racism…you should probably have a word with yourself :lol: :lol:
 

duffer

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Like it’s his place to claim it’s losing strength, I’d rather see him continue the good fight by taking the knee in solidarity and perhaps raise his concerns in a more constructive way.

You can raise a concern with it whilst continuing to do it, be constructive and help consider other ways of demonstrating but when you announce you are going to stop taking the knee yourself without doing any of that you simply make it all about you.
He didn't announce anything.

He stopped doing it a few weeks ago and nobody gave a shit or even noticed. He was asked over the weekend about it and gave an answer.

There's plenty of stuff to say about Alonso without making stuff up.
 

villain

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Not sure how dealing with it privately means ignoring it, but sure use that incredibly pathetic interpretation to take the moral high ground.

Also the "Non-white" people comment is pathetic. Racism is a world wide problem and just doesn't disappear because you are white. So congratulations on that stupid comment as well.
Yeah, i'm the one with pathetic interpretations and stupid comments. Keep digging buddy.
 

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I'd like to see the literal opposite approach happen. Stop giving attention to racists. Every time there's a news article saying "X was abused on instagram" it feeds the trolls. Punish them and keep it quiet so it doesn't encourage more people to do it for attention. Also I'm not saying I have any problem with them kneeing or whatever, free will and all. I just question what the long term goal is because I just don't think there's any tangible change happening.
Sorry but that’s a terrible approach, it’s been ignored for centuries.

Burying heads and pretending it doesn’t happen is not remotely how any positive change is ever achieved.

Civil rights and slavery only ever improved in history when people take a stand and demonstrate that it’s not acceptable and cannot be tolerated.

This gesture on the pitch won’t work with the entrenched racists of older generations but I guarantee on some level is a force for good with younger generations on educating them on the issue and highlighting it.
 

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He didn't announce anything.

He stopped doing it a few weeks ago and nobody gave a shit or even noticed. He was asked over the weekend about it and gave an answer.

There's plenty of stuff to say about Alonso without making stuff up.
Whether people noticed him doing it or not doesn’t really matter does it.

I don’t tend to watch Chelsea unless we’re playing them tbh.
 

duffer

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Whether people noticed him doing it or not doesn’t really matter does it.

I don’t tend to watch Chelsea unless we’re playing them tbh.
You said he "announced" that he was going to do this to make it all about himself, which is utter bollocks given he has been doing it since the start of the season without saying a word.

Like I said, plenty of things to say about Alonso without inventing stuff.
 

Norman Brownbutter

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Ill be honest, I think its a pointless gesture at this point. Footballs world body just showed us all what "zero tolerance" against racism and bigotry looks like. Hungary get a two match stadium ban and a 140,000 fine. One of those match bans is suspended. So whats the point? Hungary isnt going to feel any pain from that. The twatwaffle fans shouting the racist nonsense wont feel the pain of the ban as the game will be on TV somewhere. And the fine is all on the Hungary FA.

All of that said, as a white man, Alonsno is an absolute spoon here. Its not a white mans place to end this gesture against racism. Something Jon Stewart said years ago on the Daily Show about racism I think is apt here. Hes was talking about white people talking about being sick of hearing about it(racism). And he said "If your sick of hearing about, imagine how sick youd be if you had to live it.". If youre like me and think its pointless, you do it anyway to support your team mates. To support your fellow footballers at other clubs who get abuse every week on twitter. You do it for the fan watching and seeing a little bit of solidarity with the players he idolises. That maybe, that little black kid isnt all alone in this world and maybe some day he can make a mistake and not be called racist names for it.

Pointing to the badge? The Chelsea badge? The club with a pretty poor history of racist and bigoted nonsense? Talk about being tone deaf. Might as well just pull up his shirt to show off the name of Gwyn Williams tattooed in glitter across his chest.

Still, Alonso's probably wondering why he cant just pay someone to make it all go away...
 

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Sorry but that’s a terrible approach, it’s been ignored for centuries.

Burying heads and pretending it doesn’t happen is not remotely how any positive change is ever achieved.

Civil rights and slavery only ever improved in history when people take a stand and demonstrate that it’s not acceptable and cannot be tolerated.

This gesture on the pitch won’t work with the entrenched racists of older generations but I guarantee on some level is a force for good with younger generations on educating them on the issue and highlighting it.
You think it's the older generation making troll instagram accounts and posting racist emojis? It's almost entirely trolls that are doing that. Trolls exist because of the attention given to them, that's how the internet has worked ever since the dawn on time. Yes they should be punished if found out, and there should be resources and money invested into finding them and punishing them, but there should not be a countless amount of news articles every single time it happens. It's a lot more serious than this, but it's the same concept, when a moron rushes onto the pitch naked, what do the cameras do? They pan away as to not give them attention so it doesn't encourage more people to do it. You have to stop it, but I don't see it improving in the past few years, in fact it's getting worse from what I can tell. Keep kneeling, that's fine, but at least stop writing articles about the trolls.
 

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Maybe thinking you are supporting a political movement rather than anti racism?
What political movement? In case you mean some Black Lives Matter organization (rather than simply the slogan): the EPL abandoned that a year ago, taking a knee is now done in support the EPL's own anti-racism campaign.
Any player advertise anti racism stuff. I didn't see any thing like that. May be I don't know. But this symbolism created more problems than solved in my opinion.
I don't follow. How did it create more problems than it followed?
 

villain

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Ill be honest, I think its a pointless gesture at this point. Footballs world body just showed us all what "zero tolerance" against racism and bigotry looks like. Hungary get a two match stadium ban and a 140,000 fine. One of those match bans is suspended. So whats the point? Hungary isnt going to feel any pain from that. The twatwaffle fans shouting the racist nonsense wont feel the pain of the ban as the game will be on TV somewhere. And the fine is all on the Hungary FA.

All of that said, as a white man, Alonsno is an absolute spoon here. Its not a white mans place to end this gesture against racism. Something Jon Stewart said years ago on the Daily Show about racism I think is apt here. Hes was talking about white people talking about being sick of hearing about it(racism). And he said "If your sick of hearing about, imagine how sick youd be if you had to live it.". If youre like me and think its pointless, you do it anyway to support your team mates. To support your fellow footballers at other clubs who get abuse every week on twitter. You do it for the fan watching and seeing a little bit of solidarity with the players he idolises. That maybe, that little black kid isnt all alone in this world and maybe some day he can make a mistake and not be called racist names for it.

Pointing to the badge? The Chelsea badge? The club with a pretty poor history of racist and bigoted nonsense? Talk about being tone deaf. Might as well just pull up his shirt to show off the name of Gwyn Williams tattooed in glitter across his chest.

Still, Alonso's probably wondering why he cant just pay someone to make it all go away...
More people should be like you.
 

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He stopped doing it weeks ago why is it suddenly news now?
Because I suppose he thought he needed to create some good PR for himself by giving an interview about it.

He also said in the interview that he thought Spurs fans were booing him because he always plays well against them and not you know, the thing people tweet at him all day and night.
 

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You think it's the older generation making troll instagram accounts and posting racist emojis? It's almost entirely trolls that are doing that. Trolls exist because of the attention given to them, that's how the internet has worked ever since the dawn on time. Yes they should be punished if found out, and there should be resources and money invested into finding them and punishing them, but there should not be a countless amount of news articles every single time it happens. It's a lot more serious than this, but it's the same concept, when a moron rushes onto the pitch naked, what do the cameras do? They pan away as to not give them attention so it doesn't encourage more people to do it. You have to stop it, but I don't see it improving in the past few years, in fact it's getting worse from what I can tell. Keep kneeling, that's fine, but at least stop writing articles about the trolls.
Racism isn't just an internet phenomenon though. Even if you could ignore online trolls to extinction, racists would still be there in everyday life all around everyone.

Also, stopping to write about internet trolls doesn't remove their attention. They're on the internet: the simply act of posting a racist tweet means that it is now publicly visible and available. Ignoring that in the media will be more like turning a blind eye (i.e., letting it fester online without counter) than like helping to get rid of it.

Finally, internet and real-life are not separate realms. Someone doing racists things in real life (however subtle) will also display that attitude online. I don't see how either attitude will be affected by ignoring online behaviour. It's not like racists are all just online attention seekers.
 

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The racists rearing their heads early. Taking the knee for so long must have been killing him inside. Now he can "breathe" at least.

Edit: oh yeah and the obligatory "most of my teammates and friends are black. I'll point to the badge". Etc.
 

Flytan

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Racism isn't just an internet phenomenon though. Even if you could ignore online trolls to extinction, racists would still be there in everyday life all around everyone.

Also, stopping to write about internet trolls doesn't remove their attention. They're on the internet: the simply act of posting a racist tweet means that it is now publicly visible and available. Ignoring that in the media will be more like turning a blind eye (i.e., letting it fester online without counter) than like helping to get rid of it.

Finally, internet and real-life are not separate realms. Someone doing racists things in real life (however subtle) will also display that attitude online. I don't see how either attitude will be affected by ignoring online behaviour. It's not like racists are all just online attention seekers.
I'm only talking about the online abuse. I feel like clubs (at least from what I've seen in England) do a decent job at identifying and banning people who are racist in stadiums and situations like that. Again you're missing my entire point about the online racism. I'm not saying to ignore it. I'm saying to punish and remove those from the platform that are doing it. I'm simply saying to not give the attention to them when the commit the act. You still punish them the same way, it's just there's no article on the internet where some moron can see his racist tweet glorified by the media. No one's turning a blind-eye, in fact the media would be making a sacrifice by not getting more ad revenue on said articles.

I agree on the third point entirely. But like I said, I'm not advocating to ignore it, I'm advocating to deal with it in a subtle manner. I don't know why that's hard for some people to grasp.
 

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I'm only talking about the online abuse. I feel like clubs (at least from what I've seen in England) do a decent job at identifying and banning people who are racist in stadiums and situations like that. Again you're missing my entire point about the online racism. I'm not saying to ignore it. I'm saying to punish and remove those from the platform that are doing it. I'm simply saying to not give the attention to them when the commit the act. You still punish them the same way, it's just there's no article on the internet where some moron can see his racist tweet glorified by the media. No one's turning a blind-eye, in fact the media would be making a sacrifice by not getting more ad revenue on said articles.

I agree on the third point entirely. But like I said, I'm not advocating to ignore it, I'm advocating to deal with it in a subtle manner. I don't know why that's hard for some people to grasp.
Right, yes - I agree that social media should deal with abusive posters much more quickly and harshly. But that's part of a broad existing call for action on social media, I think. Removing complete anonymity is another possibly helpful action here.
 

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You think it's the older generation making troll instagram accounts and posting racist emojis? It's almost entirely trolls that are doing that. Trolls exist because of the attention given to them, that's how the internet has worked ever since the dawn on time. Yes they should be punished if found out, and there should be resources and money invested into finding them and punishing them, but there should not be a countless amount of news articles every single time it happens. It's a lot more serious than this, but it's the same concept, when a moron rushes onto the pitch naked, what do the cameras do? They pan away as to not give them attention so it doesn't encourage more people to do it. You have to stop it, but I don't see it improving in the past few years, in fact it's getting worse from what I can tell. Keep kneeling, that's fine, but at least stop writing articles about the trolls.
I didn’t talk about the trolls, I was talking about people watching the game and seeing the gesture and what effect it may have on older and younger generations.

Trolls are for the social media clowns to control. I would like to see social media anonymity removed entirely, it’s only protecting racists and perverts at this point and what somebody says online should be dealt with exactly how it would be on the street.

If you think taking the knee makes racist trolls feel better about themselves then I disagree and is certainly not a reason to stop.
 

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Quite a rash decision from Alonso. Hope he wasn't drunk on this ocassion.
 

Flytan

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Right, yes - I agree that social media should deal with abusive posters much more quickly and harshly. But that's part of a broad existing call for action on social media, I think. Removing complete anonymity is another possibly helpful action here.
Yup, a simple option on any social media account:

"Only allow posters with verified identify access to view/reply to my content".

Easy to identify the racists/criminals but it's not like you have to verify yourself if you don't want and the racists wouldn't be allowed to post on said content. Hell, maybe athletes should start their own media platform and do that.
 

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Is ths really what you're getting out of this? You seem to be prepared to let players take the knee permanently, that's what you quoted me on. Again, why don't you go tell Zaha, Toney and Les Ferdinand to do this permanently?
What black people and players decide to do is up to them to be honest.
 

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because now its just part of the pre match routine, like lining up for the handshakes which were supposedly about respect before both sides proceeded to try and cheat at every opportunity for the next 90 minutes.

Personally I don't think it has any effect and hasn't since the end of the 19-20 season as it just became routine I think there needs to be a more tangible action but I have no idea what that could be.

Also the irony of saying a white player isn't allowed to have a view on this being incredibly racist has been lost on most in this thread I see.
How can one say it's not having any effect? It's still being talked about, discussions are being had on social media and elsewhere between people who disagree with each other about these sorts of things, which is the whole point of the gesture in the first place. How do you measure it's effect and the loss of it in the last 12 months specifically?
 

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You said he "announced" that he was going to do this to make it all about himself, which is utter bollocks given he has been doing it since the start of the season without saying a word.

Like I said, plenty of things to say about Alonso without inventing stuff.
When a celebrity on live tv decides to do something and then speaks to the press to clarify his position I think that constitutes ‘announcing.’ I don’t know why that’s lost on you, you don’t need a press conference to announce something.

I didn’t say anything to exaggerate what he’s done. Hes taken this stance himself with absolutely no suggestion of what he thinks would be a better gesture than taking the knee.
 

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Like it’s his place to claim it’s losing strength, I’d rather see him continue the good fight by taking the knee in solidarity and perhaps raise his concerns in a more constructive way.

You can raise a concern with it whilst continuing to do it, be constructive and help consider other ways of demonstrating but when you announce you are going to stop taking the knee yourself without doing any of that you simply make it all about you.
Yep this was a point I raised (I hope) in my post earlier.
 

VorZakone

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What black people and players decide to do is up to them to be honest.
Fortunately, it is up to them. But if you'd give some of the people in this thread the authority to enforce the kneeling, those same black footballers wouldn't have had a choice.
 

duffer

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When a celebrity on live tv decides to do something and then speaks to the press to clarify his position I think that constitutes ‘announcing.’ I don’t know why that’s lost on you, you don’t need a press conference to announce something.

I didn’t say anything to exaggerate what he’s done. Hes taken this stance himself with absolutely no suggestion of what he thinks would be a better gesture than taking the knee.
He's been pointing rather than kneeling for the entire season. He was asked over this weekend about it and answered.

How you can see that as "an announcement to make it all about him" is an incredibly harsh way of looking at his answer. Should he have avoided the question?
 

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He's been pointing rather than kneeling for the entire season. He was asked over this weekend about it and answered.

How you can see that as "an announcement to make it all about him" is an incredibly harsh way of looking at his answer. Should he have avoided the question?
No to be clear, in my opinion, the moment he didn’t kneel was making a statement.

How can it not be seen as making a statement when you refuse to take the knee which is gesture for equality.

You make a statement with your actions and at that moment he made it about him.
 

duffer

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No to be clear, in my opinion, the moment he didn’t kneel was making a statement.

How can it not be seen as making a statement when you refuse to take the knee which is gesture for equality.

You make a statement with your actions and at that moment he made it about him.
Him not kneeling but instead pointing to the anti racism badge is a statement, I certainly agree with you there.
 

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It does feel like it's starting to be pointed to by certain higher-ups to distract from a lack of action in other areas. Does anyone remember what happened to Hungary after the England game where Sterling and other players got racially abused?

Not saying we should stop taking the knee but I do think we should listen to players who say it's not helping, especially black players. IIRC Zaha said something similar and everyone sort of moved on.
I completely agree. It's when clearly-not-good-faith commenters give 'it's not doing anything to fix racism' as a reason not to do it that I get irritated. Because if it's pissing people off, it's doing something. Otherwise racism in football is this mostly hidden iceberg that only its victims are actually having to deal with on a day to day basis. If nothing else, this forces everyone to acknowledge the problem once per match.
 

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Ill be honest, I think its a pointless gesture at this point. Footballs world body just showed us all what "zero tolerance" against racism and bigotry looks like. Hungary get a two match stadium ban and a 140,000 fine. One of those match bans is suspended. So whats the point? Hungary isnt going to feel any pain from that. The twatwaffle fans shouting the racist nonsense wont feel the pain of the ban as the game will be on TV somewhere. And the fine is all on the Hungary FA.

All of that said, as a white man, Alonsno is an absolute spoon here. Its not a white mans place to end this gesture against racism. Something Jon Stewart said years ago on the Daily Show about racism I think is apt here. Hes was talking about white people talking about being sick of hearing about it(racism). And he said "If your sick of hearing about, imagine how sick youd be if you had to live it.". If youre like me and think its pointless, you do it anyway to support your team mates. To support your fellow footballers at other clubs who get abuse every week on twitter. You do it for the fan watching and seeing a little bit of solidarity with the players he idolises. That maybe, that little black kid isnt all alone in this world and maybe some day he can make a mistake and not be called racist names for it.

Pointing to the badge? The Chelsea badge? The club with a pretty poor history of racist and bigoted nonsense? Talk about being tone deaf. Might as well just pull up his shirt to show off the name of Gwyn Williams tattooed in glitter across his chest.

Still, Alonso's probably wondering why he cant just pay someone to make it all go away...
Sums it up perfectly, a white man telling his counterparts [particularly the minority ones] he’s done with showing solidarity because he can’t see the point in the action isn’t something people should be defending. How this thread has gone on so long pretty much sums up this forums problem with the subject matter.
 

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As a white bloke I look around at all my teammates, many of them black, making a protest against anti-black racism, using a gesture steeped in the modern history of black protest. I think 'you know, I reckon I'll point at a badge instead'.
 

duffer

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As a white bloke I look around at all my teammates, many of them black, making a protest against anti-black racism, using a gesture steeped in the modern history of black protest. I think 'you know, I reckon I'll point at a badge instead'.
Agreed 100%.

The only way I'm doing anything other than showing solidarity is if Reece James or Toni Rudiger says to me "Duffer, we think a white bloke standing and pointing might bring this back onto Sky Sports News so would you do it?". That is absolutely NOT what happened here though.
 

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As a white bloke I look around at all my teammates, many of them black, making a protest against anti-black racism, using a gesture steeped in the modern history of black protest. I think 'you know, I reckon I'll point at a badge instead'.
Exactly this. @duffer This is the point I’m making, pretty simple stuff really.
 

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Ill be honest, I think its a pointless gesture at this point. Footballs world body just showed us all what "zero tolerance" against racism and bigotry looks like. Hungary get a two match stadium ban and a 140,000 fine. One of those match bans is suspended. So whats the point? Hungary isnt going to feel any pain from that. The twatwaffle fans shouting the racist nonsense wont feel the pain of the ban as the game will be on TV somewhere. And the fine is all on the Hungary FA.

All of that said, as a white man, Alonsno is an absolute spoon here. Its not a white mans place to end this gesture against racism. Something Jon Stewart said years ago on the Daily Show about racism I think is apt here. Hes was talking about white people talking about being sick of hearing about it(racism). And he said "If your sick of hearing about, imagine how sick youd be if you had to live it.". If youre like me and think its pointless, you do it anyway to support your team mates. To support your fellow footballers at other clubs who get abuse every week on twitter. You do it for the fan watching and seeing a little bit of solidarity with the players he idolises. That maybe, that little black kid isnt all alone in this world and maybe some day he can make a mistake and not be called racist names for it.

Pointing to the badge? The Chelsea badge? The club with a pretty poor history of racist and bigoted nonsense? Talk about being tone deaf. Might as well just pull up his shirt to show off the name of Gwyn Williams tattooed in glitter across his chest.

Still, Alonso's probably wondering why he cant just pay someone to make it all go away...
Racism isn’t exclusive to a particular race, is it? It can be directed or suffered by all. That isn’t to diminish its prevalence amongst certain quarters, but I think the inference that Alonso (as a white person) is incapable of holding a valid view on racism, because of his own colour, is somewhat counterintuitive, and surely self-defeating as an argument?
 

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Nah this is too simplistic and wishful thinking. Kids won't even understand the term "kneeling against racial injustice" and what it actually means. So long as their parents and people around them are racist they will be too. We could kneel for Palestine and people in Israel will still think the same of them. There have been black sportsman for years and people would love MJ but hate black men. Many wypipo will prefer to have their heads in the sand and pretend racism doesn't exist or they simply ignore it because they don't see it day to day. People also don't get their life views from sports people. that said if they want to kneel then cool. If they don't, I don't care either.
Are you blind? Kneel for Palestine in Europe?

Are you even aware that most european countries recognize Israel over Palestine as a country right? In what world UEFA would allow kneeling for Palestine in an official game? Pffff so naive.
 

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Fortunately, it is up to them. But if you'd give some of the people in this thread the authority to enforce the kneeling, those same black footballers wouldn't have had a choice.
I think most people with any understanding feel that black people can do what we want to deal with these issues as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. But that's because we're the ones on the receiving end of the issues. Comparing them to Alonso is a complete joke.