Combat apathy with words? Another opinion without a solution.
[Irrelevant point] to stop taking the knee
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Indeed. Will anyone who doesn't have the complete solution to racism, please pipe down.
Not sure about that. Some of his past decisions for himself have ended up being very costly to others...
Both gestures create awareness, if that's the purpose. Is there any other League that do the kneeing?
The knee has become an empty gesture. Football, society, the general public have done nothing to advance racial equality.
If he is calling the act degrading then yes he is ignorant. And if he thinks the point of the kneeling was to end racism he is ignorant.
Again, a "I don't like the act and don't want to kneel but more power to those who do" would have sufficed.
No.
Racism is a real problem, more than ever. Especially in this day and age where we have a*****les like Trump, Bolsonaro, Orban and their likes acceding to the highest offices, and internet allowing racist feckers to make their miserable voice heard. Taking the knee was a necessary first step but it can't be the last. As long as there's no meaningful actions taken by the football authorities, in cooperation with the clubs and the players, against it alongside a serious educational effort starting with the kids in school, nothing will change. People will just see taking the knee as part of the ritual before kick-off and that'll be about it. Eventually the Farage fans rubbed by it the wrong way nowadays will grow tired and stop booing, but it won't change their opinion about the gesture in itself. Or make them less racist.
In case of racists chants, gestures or noises, systematically walk out of a game, ban the crowd for a couple of games, find and ban racist fans for life, issue hefty fines. Get the clubs and the FIFA country members to really get rid of these people. But if one thinks that taking the knee will still have some impact in the long run, then they're mistaken. imo.
What do their bank balances have to do with the impact their racial abuse they receive has? You saying can’t be ‘oppressed’ because they’re rich? Being called a monkey on twitter fine because of their pay packet?
I've always rated him as a player. As a bloke.. let's not go there.
Good. The fact he refers to himself as "Chilly" annoys me for some reason.
If not to protest racism, he can perhaps take a knee to protest bribery, corruption, money laundering, loan fraud and illegal occupation. Plenty of good causes to support.
Who gives a shit what this horrible cnut says.
These days if you say you're [Irrelevant point] you get arrested and put in jail
I don't really give a feck if him and anyone else take the knee or not. There are more important issues on this planet than football players doing some symbolical gesture that might have 0 impact on the actual issue itself.
Him not taking the knee doesn't mean he's supporting the actual problem, he just wants to make a dumb headline in the press, which is normal for some tiny brained football players.
If feel there's too much of "if you do that, you're that" these days, everything is a fecking topic that leads to people judging and over analyzing other people, especially people they don't know.
Him not taking the knee doesn't mean he's supporting the actual problem, he just wants to make a dumb headline in the press, which is normal for some tiny brained football players.
If feel there's too much of "if you do that, you're that" these days, everything is a fecking topic that leads to people judging and over analyzing other people, especially people they don't know.
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The real question is, do his black teammates care that much about how he chooses to show his fight against racism as you think they should? Judging by our current games, show of togetherness in celebrations/against adversity, and the fact that he stopped kneeling since the start of the season.... I'd say probably not? But non of us really know nor would have cared much until he was asked about it recently so a good portion of our current society can find something to moan about. His previous records don't help his case of course but he's still his own person and can choose to support a course or not in his own way. That's what Colin Kaepernick did isn't it?
We solved racism in the USA years ago. And all we had to was... hang on, I have it my notes here somewhere. OK, let me get back to you on this.
In all seriousness, I've been wondering this for a while since I don't really look at instagram/twitter. Do US athletes can spammed with racist comments/emojis as often as football players do? I honestly don't know. I don't know if media/players just ignore it here or what. Genuinely curious if it happens as often.
The knee has just become a method for elites to show their "superiority" and "morality" over common man. Imagine taking a knee at your office everyday, it would be laughable, stupidity and silly.
I get understand the hype behind the knee, but the diminishing returns has been set. It doesn't bring any benefits today. And instead of actually doing direct work to resolve racism, these elites have taken the easy way out, with the knee...
I get understand the hype behind the knee, but the diminishing returns has been set. It doesn't bring any benefits today. And instead of actually doing direct work to resolve racism, these elites have taken the easy way out, with the knee...
It would be laughable and silly... unless you happened to be a person who has suffered racist abuse and everyone around you has shown indifference. It is a gesture that reinforces the belief that racism is prevalent and needs to be stopped. People want to return to their old ways of thinking; taking the knee reminds everyone who sees it that the job is from from done.
"I feel taking the knee has become pointless, so I won't do it - but I won't just stand there waiting for five seconds, I'll make sure to point at my anti-racism badge to..."
Yes, what?
Convey the same message (but in a supposedly more meaningful/less hollow or formulaic way)?
Yes, what?
Convey the same message (but in a supposedly more meaningful/less hollow or formulaic way)?
It's true. Do something else that isn't tried.
The people in favour of this are probably those who insist that you get more racism as a reaction to things like the knee gesture.
Martin Tyler: "How good it is to hear applause for players that do take the knee and boos for those that don't."
Yeah, but seriously - how is pointing at a badge better/more impactful than taking the knee? The novelty of it? Seems absurd to me.
If you feel the gesture has become - well - just a gesture, surely replacing it with another gesture just adds to the pointlessness of the thing.
ETA If you meant "try something other than a(nother) gesture", ignore my reply.
What's the logic behind no longer taking the knee, a universally recognisable symbol/gesture, as it's 'losing strength' and opting instead to do something that'll be only be noticeable if you zoom in?
Taking the knee, not taking the knee. Does it really matter? People are getting far too attached to an ideal. If your expected to make a gesture every time it no longer becomes a gesture and it’s meaning is lost.
If your a Karen and offended by someone declining to take the knee then please rethink your life.
It has to end at some point, why not today?
If your a Karen and offended by someone declining to take the knee then please rethink your life.
It has to end at some point, why not today?
How's taking a knee going to make a difference if someone suffered racist abuse? If it's about showing solidarity then why pointing to a ''Say No To Racism" badge is any worse than dropping to your knees? Who decides what's appropriate in this case and what isn't?
Yeah it's cheap, but he's a Caucasian and a footballer. He doesn't know what to do, but he probably feels like it's dumb. I am from the states, and it lost its value here. Kaep did what he did, and it worked over here. IDK how long he planned to do it, but it couldn't have been this long.
[Irrelevant point] is spanish, probably a celt.
America is the only place where they call Caucasian whoever have indo european ancestries.
Then adjust from there.
Well depends really. If you compare it to football of the 60s 70s 80s I’d say we’ve moved along but we need to move further. I was reading Clough Gold recently and some of the stories told by black players who played for Clough back then were simply gobsmacking. Whole stands throwing fruit and shouting the worst things. The shit those lads dealt with. It’s not perfect but hopefully we’re moving in the right direction.
utoy
About Clough or just the general environment?
Yeah. sorry, should have Clarified, About the general environment. If you get a chance to read it it’s really good. Just stories from people who played and worked with Clough. Some of them talk about how things were in those days.
I went to some matches in those days. Never in the stands, always the seats. As an Asian I would never have dared TBH, the racist abuse was unreal.
Same, I remember those days well. It was on another level.
The shame as well was that some black players were so compromised by it, they tried to laugh it off or rationalise it by saying things like, " they're abusing their black players not ours!" So that made it acceptable
i have no issue with his stance.
Never mind the way he stands, what about taking the knee?
And Lukaku said the same words. Do you also will blame him? Do you blame Zaha for his words? Guys, taking a knee is a free choice. One guy blames another for skin color, second guy blames another guy for not taking a knee. So what is difference between them? You guys literally saying that Alonso's morals are worse than yours. No. Everybody has their own moral, and as long as he does not break the law, then you should not judge him. When you judge a person so strongly for an ordinary gesture, then you violate the person's freedom of speech and action within the law. You are also aggressive, although you are for a good cause. These are double standards.
Does Lukaku's comments count as Alonso's black teammates having no issues with his stance or do we disregard that as well, ala Zaha, as just another black person who doesn't know better and couldn't just stick with the narrative I approve. Maybe we need every black player in the league to approve before the little white boy Alonso can decide to support the fight against racism in his own way?
As a black man myself, I actually had more respect for what happened in the F1 than what's going on with the PL right now. I'd rather people knelt or did something else (or nothing) if they individually felt that was the best way to show support against the discrimination against my skin color instead of a routine where the look on the majority of faces shows they'd much rather be doing anything else.
As a black man myself, I actually had more respect for what happened in the F1 than what's going on with the PL right now. I'd rather people knelt or did something else (or nothing) if they individually felt that was the best way to show support against the discrimination against my skin color instead of a routine where the look on the majority of faces shows they'd much rather be doing anything else.