[Sylar]

I honestly don't think we've helped him at all. Not gonna make excuses cos him not squaring the ball is pretty daft
But if you take that away, He showed when he first debuted he can play up top. Heck last season against Chelsea under Jose at home he was pretty good with lingard behind him.

I think if he had a run of games as striker it would help him. But it's clear he won't get that here. I cant think of many players who are good when utilised like he is

 

[Bwuk]

Confidence is gone and tries too hard.

 

[Bwuk]

I honestly don't think we've helped him at all. Not gonna make excuses cos him not squaring the ball is pretty daft
But if you take that away, He showed when he first debuted he can play up top. Heck last season against Chelsea under Jose at home he was pretty good with lingard behind him.

I think if he had a run of games as striker it would help him. But it's clear he won't get that here. I cant think of many players who are good when utilised like he is

Agreed. People under estimate confidence. It’s very hard to build form and confidence when you clearly aren’t getting a run in the team in the same position.

 

[breakout67]

I honestly don't think we've helped him at all. Not gonna make excuses cos him not squaring the ball is pretty daft
But if you take that away, He showed when he first debuted he can play up top. Heck last season against Chelsea under Jose at home he was pretty good with lingard behind him.

I think if he had a run of games as striker it would help him. But it's clear he won't get that here. I cant think of many players who are good when utilised like he is

He was not that good in that half season under LVG. The reality is that we were so poor that season in attack that any decent striker made us excited for him.

His goal return was 12 in 31 games, average for a striker. It was only slightly better than Welbeck when he first got a run of games.

 

[el3mel]

Confidence is gone and tries too hard.

Why will be his confidence gone ? Why does he need confidence to pass a simple ball ?

 

[Charles Miller]

yup and we will finished around 5-6th every season. Happy?

Yes. Its the tittle or nothing for me

Also, the current transfer market is irrational, its a bubble and its not sustainable. Clubs will need to start developing their own players again very soon. United should lead it.

 

[Bwuk]

Why will be his confidence gone ? Why does he need confidence to pass a simple ball ?

Clearly it’s gone, watch him. He’s went from being able to beat a man and pull off a moment of magic to being awful.

He’s regressed under Jose. Rashford hasn’t handled rotation and playing out of position well.

 

[el3mel]

Clearly it’s gone, watch him. He’s went from being able to beat a man and pull off a moment of magic to being awful.

He’s regressed under Jose. Rashford hasn’t handled rotation and playing out of position well.

You didn't answer the question. Why will it be gone ? Give one reason.

 

[Bwuk]

You didn't answer the question. Why will it be gone ? Give one reason.

Because he’s went from being first choice striker, and Uniteds golden boy to being arguably 2nd/3rd choice in his position, and another position we’ve tried to shoe horn him in out wide.

If you don’t see why that would effect a teenagers confidence then I’m struggling.

Young players need game time and confidence to develop. Look at your nations star player - Salah.

Do you think he’d of become the player he is today by being on Chelsea’s bench? Or did he progress by playing every week and building confidence in his game.

 

[Sylar]

He was not that good in that half season under LVG. The reality is that we were so poor that season in attack that any decent striker made us excited for him.

His goal return was 12 in 31 games, average for a striker. It was only slightly better than Welbeck when he first got a run of games.

You telling me he played 31 games from Feb to April? Wiki tells me he got 8 in 18 which seems more accurate

Scored 2 against arsenal
Winner against city
2 on his United debut in europa (which we started the leg behind)
A goal in fa cup quarter final
Scored on his England debut too

But for some reason lvg drafted him wide right against Liverpool in europa league first leg ...

I can't think of many other big clubs that play as many people out of position as us and has as much inconsistency in a starting line up

 

[kundalini]

I don't like him coming short to receive the ball, especially when no-one is running beyond their defence.

Poor first half. Much better 2nd half.

No idea what he was thinking when he delayed instead of passing to Martial.

I like the idea of playing Marcus as a central striker but at times it seems as though he doesn't understand that the key to scoring goals, is finding space, centrally, within the box.

 

[pocco]

Never bought into the hype and the last two seasons have confirmed to me that he's not good enough. If he weren't English/Mancunian then he'd be at Everton soon.

 

[el3mel]

Because he’s went from being first choice striker, and Uniteds golden boy to being arguably 2nd/3rd choice in his position, and another position we’ve tried to shoe horn him in out wide.

If you don’t see why that would effect a teenagers confidence then I’m struggling.

Young players need game time and confidence to develop. Look at your nations star player - Salah.

Do you think he’d of become the player he is today by being on Chelsea’s bench? Or did he progress by playing every week and building confidence in his game.

These excuses are pretty lame it's absolutely ridiculous. There're loads of things you can slaughter Mourinho with if you want. There's no need to invent things for the sake of it.

You realize this is Manchester United FC not Rashford FC ? You realize that there's no chance we would have went into a season depending on an inconsistent youngster as a striker ? SAF always had 3 or 4 top strikers at his disposal and they were all performing great. He went on to buy RVP instead of depending on Welbeck. He had Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez at one point, before going to add Berbatov to the mix. This is reality.

If Rashford at 20 think he's depressing that he's not a starter, then his confidence is gone and will start to be selfish taking all the glory for himself at each ball, then the boy won't have any future at any top club not just here.

Again, time to stop putting lame excuses for players. It's like LVG and Moyes all over again : players are at no fault it's the manager 100%. Like LVG and Moyes, you can find actual things to slaughter Mourinho about, instead of completely resolving blames from underperforming, selfish players.

 

[van Nistelrooy]

Never bought into the hype and the last two seasons have confirmed to me that he's not good enough. If he weren't English/Mancunian then he'd be at Everton soon.

This is very true. If it wasn't for his homegrown status, he would just be another Macheda.

2018/19 is a make or break season.

 

[Bwuk]

These excuses are pretty lame it's absolutely ridiculous. There're loads of things you can slaughter Mourinho with if you want. There's no need to invent things for the sake of it.

You realize this is Manchester United FC not Rashford FC ? You realize that there's no chance we would have went into a season depending on an inconsistent youngster as a striker ? SAF always had 3 or 4 top strikers at his disposal and they were all performing great. He went on to buy RVP instead of depending on Welbeck. He had Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez at one point, before going to add Berbatov to the mix. This is reality.

If Rashford at 20 think he's depressing that he's not a starter, then his confidence is gone and will start to be selfish taking all the glory for himself at each ball, then the boy won't have any future at any top club not just here.

Again, time to stop putting lame excuses for players. It's like LVG and Moyes all over again : players are at no fault it's the manager 100%. Like LVG and Moyes, you can find actual things to slaughter Mourinho about, instead of completely resolving blames from underperforming, selfish players.

Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo were all established top players before Berba came in. Rashford isn’t. And that clearly effected Tevez who wasn’t as good after Berba signed.

Answer my question about Salah. Do you think he’d of became the player he was today being a bench player at Chelsea not always playing in his position? Or do you think playing every week built his confidence in himself and his game?

Confidence is everything in football. Managers jobs is to man manage teams and get the best out of their players. We have a very talented set of attackers - but who are we getting the best out of?

 

[el3mel]

Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo were all established top players before Berba came in. Rashford isn’t. And that clearly effected Tevez who wasn’t as good after Berba signed.

Answer my question about Salah. Do you think he’d of became the player he was today being a bench player at Chelsea not always playing in his position? Or do you think playing every week built his confidence in himself and his game?

Confidence is everything in football. Managers jobs is to man manage teams and get the best out of their players. We have a very talented set of attackers - but who are we getting the best out of?

To answer your question, No, but it's not related to the subject, is it ? As a club we should only care about having established players that perform week in week out. If a player is performing shite or selfish, it's not our problem if he's performing or not. We're not going to harm ourselves for the sake of one player. Bench is your place till you start benefiting the team.

 

[Bwuk]

To answer your question, No, but it's not related to the subject, is it ? As a club we should only care about having established players that perform week in week out. If a player is performing shite or selfish, it's not our problem if he's performing or not. We're not going to harm ourselves for the sake of one player. Bench is your place till you start benefiting the team.

Of course it is relevant, you asked why his confidence is gone and I gave you an example which you said was ridiculous but given an example of it (I.e. Salah) it’s now not relevant?

Jose’s the reason our attack is shite and performs shite. Who in our array of forwards and attacking midfielders can we say we are getting the best out of.

 

[el3mel]

Of course it is relevant, you asked why his confidence is gone and I gave you an example which you said was ridiculous but given an example of it (I.e. Salah) it’s now not relevant?

Jose’s the reason our attack is shite and performs shite. Who in our array of forwards and attacking midfielders can we say we are getting the best out of.

At 20 years he should be fully expecting himself to be a squad option not a starter.

 

[Devil may care]

He didn't get a decent ball all night but his decision making choices were poor in a couple of decent positions.

 

[Sylar]

These excuses are pretty lame it's absolutely ridiculous. There're loads of things you can slaughter Mourinho with if you want. There's no need to invent things for the sake of it.

Again, time to stop putting lame excuses for players. It's like LVG and Moyes all over again : players are at no fault it's the manager 100%. Like LVG and Moyes, you can find actual things to slaughter Mourinho about, instead of completely resolving blames from underperforming, selfish players.

Tbf to @Bwuk what he's saying isn't something you could just label with rashford
There aren't many cases of young players being used similar to rashford who would have tons of confidence.

Using Shaw martial and rashford as examples
I could see why all three may have had their confidence dented
Whilst they were in the team they did well and then suddenly dropped for no absolute obvious reason for a long time
Rashford started against Liverpool and scored 2. How many games did he start after that?
Martial had some good form, then was dropped when Sanchez came in
Shaw has a good run then was dropped for young when young came back from suspension

But saying that I do think players having confidence affected shouldn't stop them from working hard when given a chance. I can understand mistakes happening because every player makes a mistake. As long as they learn / reduce it, fine
I've seen rashford refuse to square the ball three times (that I can remember) this season. That's on him
But it's also up to the manager to ... manage this.

It's all a bit weird at United anyway But that's for another thread

 

[el3mel]

Tbf to @Bwuk what he's saying isn't something you could just label with rashford
There aren't many cases of young players being used similar to rashford who would have tons of confidence.

Using Shaw martial and rashford as examples
I could see why all three may have had their confidence dented
Whilst they were in the team they did well and then suddenly dropped for no absolute obvious reason for a long time
Rashford started against Liverpool and scored 2. How many games did he start after that?
Martial had some good form, then was dropped when Sanchez came in
Shaw has a good run then was dropped for young when young came back from suspension

But saying that I do think players having confidence affected shouldn't stop them from working hard when given a chance. I can understand mistakes happening because every player makes a mistake. As long as they learn / reduce it, fine
I've seen rashford refuse to square the ball three times (that I can remember) this season. That's on him
But it's also up to the manager to ... manage this.

It's all a bit weird at United anyway But that's for another thread

That's what I'm talking. Rashford has been selfish and trying to take the glory for himself several times of the season not just now or one day. You can backtrack to the games at November, December or Jan and see how hew was getting slaughtered for it. It's not just a problem of today. He has been like that most of the season so allow me to strongly disagree about the confidence part in your first part of the post.

 

[Sylar]

That's what I'm talking. Rashford has been selfish and trying to take the glory for himself several times of the season not just now or one day. You can backtrack to the games at November, December or Jan and see how hew was getting slaughtered for it. It's not just a problem of today. He has been like that most of the season so allow me to strongly disagree about the confidence part in your first part of the post.

But then as I said
You won't find many youngsters who will be very confident when moved around in positions or dropped next game after performing

Lukaku as a Jose purchase can get away with a bunch of games underperforming or making mistakes because he will he allowed to get into form
Rashford won't be afforded that chance so tries to make the most of it
For him he's probably thinking if I score I start next game
This is where you need a mix of him maturing as well as help from management telling him, getting an assist will be as important as a goal to stay in the team / start next game

 

[el3mel]

But then as I said
You won't find many youngsters who will be very confident when moved around in positions or dropped next game after performing

Lukaku as a Jose purchase can get away with a bunch of games underperforming or making mistakes because he will he allowed to get into form
Rashford won't be afforded that chance so tries to make the most of it
For him he's probably thinking if I score I start next game
This is where you need a mix of him maturing as well as help from management telling him, getting an assist will be as important as a goal to stay in the team / start next game

I don't think you need confidence to make simple passes to your teammates who are better positions. That's what I disagree on with you. I know if a player is shot of confidence he tries to take simple passes or do the basics, not trying to take all the glory for himself.

Look, you mentioned Martial in your previous post in the same category. Put in Martial instead of Rashford in this ball, would he have done like Rashford ? I have no doubt Martial would have just passed it without any fuss.

 

[Full bodied red]

Don't think he'll be here start of the 19 > 20 season.

Wellbeck, Wilson and now Rashford - they've all flattred to deceive.

And seems like forever he's been taking corners from the left but still can't clear the first defender even though we've got the tallest team in the EPL.

Add a Lukaku understudy to the summer transfer list and put Rashford out of his misery.

 

[AP88]

Don't think he'll be here start of the 19 > 20 season.

Wellbeck, Wilson and now Rashford - they've all flattred to deceive.

And seems like forever he's been taking corners from the left but still can't clear the first defender even though we've got the tallest team in the EPL.

Add a Lukaku understudy to the summer transfer list and put Rashford out of his misery.

Send him to Leicester for 2 years, take Vardy.

He’s mediocre at the minute and requires something to kickstart his career.

 

[Adisa]

Tweet

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[TsuWave]

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this looks worse every time i watch it. fecking hell.

 

[Sylar]

I don't think you need confidence to make simple passes to your teammates who are better positions. That's what I disagree on with you. I know if a player is shot of confidence he tries to take simple passes or do the basics, not trying to take all the glory for himself.

Look, you mentioned Martial in your previous post in the same category. Put in Martial instead of Rashford in this ball, would he have done like Rashford ? I have no doubt Martial would have just passed it without any fuss.

I never said you need confidence for that
Read my post again
Also if a player is shot of confidence they react differently to somebody else
Not all players are the same so treating them all the same is not good management

 

[el3mel]

I never said you need confidence for that
Read my post again
Also if a player is shot of confidence they react differently to somebody else
Not all players are the same so treating them all the same is not good management

That makes us to square one : at age of 20 you shouldn't be shot of confidence because you're not starting. This can be used as an excuse of any underperforming player without a contest, and that is what makes it a lame excuse for me.

 

[Sylar]

That makes us to square one : at age of 20 you shouldn't be shot of confidence because you're not starting. This can be used as an excuse of any underperforming player without a contest, and that is what makes it a lame excuse for me.

Again , read my post
I didn't say he would be shot of confidence for not starting

Are you sure you're reading my posts lol

 

[el3mel]

Again , read my post
I didn't say he would be shot of confidence for not starting

Are you sure you're reading my posts lol

Why did you interfere in the discussion then and what is even the point you are trying to make ?!

 

[tjb]

The truth is simple, rashford isn't better than kelechi iheanacho. He is still at man utd because our club is far too sentimental...the same reason jones, smalling, cleverlely, welbeck etc were given chances here. Even if we didn't sell him, the obsession with not loaning out known young talents is amazing. He could have developed in a less competitive environment, but instead we ve hyped him up and made him believe he is something he's not. Bayern for example loaned out both kroos and alaba to leverkusen and hoffenheim, and both players came back as world class talents. We really should have loaned him out last season, but pressure from the club to develop another class of 92 has made development at utd for less talented player almost impossible.

 

[Sylar]

Why did you interfere in the discussion then and what is even the point you are trying to make ?!

Oh sorry
I didn't realise I'm not allowed to post on a forum where a discussion is taking place
Or is it because I didn't take agree with you and understood what @Bwuk was saying

Although it's quite funny how the convo on this page went
Bw: he looks shot of confidence
You: why would he be
Bw: because of x y and z. Here's an example
You: these examples are lame and not relevant

Lol. I mean if youre gonna argue points I'm not even making, I'll leave ya be. But it has been quite funny

 

[el3mel]

Oh sorry
I didn't realise I'm not allowed to post on a forum where a discussion is taking place
Or is it because I didn't take agree with you and understood what @Bwuk was saying

Although it's quite funny how the convo on this page went
Bw: he looks shot of confidence
You: why would he be
Bw: because of x y and z. Here's an example
You: these examples are lame and not relevant

Lol. I mean if youre gonna argue points I'm not even making, I'll leave ya be. But it has been quite funny

I got it you have no points to make it at all. At least the other poster had something to replay with.

 

[Sylar]

Even if we didn't sell him, the obsession with not loaning out known young talents is amazing. He could have developed in a less competitive environment, but instead we ve hyped him up and made him believe he is something he's not.

So
Here's a question: who was the last player we loaned out that really developed before returning to us and became a mainstay?

 

[tjb]

So
Here's a question: who was the last player we loaned out that really developed before returning to us and became a mainstay?

Who was the last young player we had that became a mainstay? Btw even beckham and scholes were loaned out. In fact those players were breaking through at age 20 and 21, not 18 or 19...if we want to point to other clubs, i can give examples. Lukaku going to everton and west brom allowed him to develop, courtois at atletico allowed him to develop, wilshere at bolton, kane at leicester and norwich.

 

[Bobski]

He is 20 years old and has played a handful of games in the central striker role all season. Mourinho has not prioritized developing him in that role and will probably look to bring in another experienced option to further limit his chances.

 

[marukomu]

He needs a year on loan somewhere. He obviously has talent but needs to play regularly.
I would be sad if we sold him as I think he could become special.

 

[Sylar]

Who was the last young player we had that became a mainstay? Btw even beckham and scholes were loaned out. In fact those players were breaking through at age 20 and 21, not 18 or 19...if we want to point to other clubs, i can give examples. Lukaku going to everton and west brom allowed him to develop, courtois at atletico allowed him to develop, wilshere at bolton, kane at leicester and norwich.

Well by mainstay, I meant in and around the squad / involved every game
Assuming we don't count mctominay, amd Guess if we take out the mentioned rashford, we could say lingard. But I don't think his loan spell helped him develop as much as actually getting game time with our first team
Cleverley went out on loan and was a first teamer for us(guessing he's the answer?)
We could also say Fletcher, evans (maybe best example) oshea and brown were young players who became mainstays

But then the people we've sent out on loan have included the likes of januzaj, rossi, macheda, Wilson, powell, welbeck, will keane, tunnicliffe, henriquez.

Whilst you give good examples from other teams, there isn't much recent history to suggest sending out known young talents is beneficial for United vs giving them time with our first team.

 

[tjb]

Well by mainstay, I meant in and around the squad / involved every game
Assuming we don't count mctominay, amd Guess if we take out the mentioned rashford, we could say lingard. But I don't think his loan spell helped him develop as much as actually getting game time with our first team
Cleverley went out on loan and was a first teamer for us(guessing he's the answer?)
We could also say Fletcher, evans (maybe best example) oshea and brown were young players who became mainstays

But then the people we've sent out on loan have included the likes of januzaj, rossi, macheda, Wilson, powell, welbeck, will keane, tunnicliffe, henriquez.

Whilst you give good examples from other teams, there isn't much recent history to suggest sending out known young talents is beneficial for United vs giving them time with our first team.

i see your point and tbh we have not produced well lately, then again not many clubs have. I put that down to some of out young players being more overrated and being exposed a bit too soon...kind of the theo walcott syndrome. Far too much expectation with little evidence to back it up.
Plus when i see the young players in football that do develop these days, they usually start out playing for midtable clubs or clubs in smaller leagues, where they are given the freedom and lack of expectation to hone their craft. If that is the case, theoretically they should be good on loan. Maybe the problem is us loaning them out for too short a period. kroos was loaned out for two years for example. that way the loanee club will feel more responsible for those players.