[Rozay]

Beautiful post. Nailed everything.

Bingo

Thank you.

 

[An Irish Red]

This is awful from him. State of some posts.

Feel free to point out where you disagree like.

You have to wonder why some people hate this kid so much. Exciting young player who came through our academy and is a boyhood United fan. Makes no sense to me.

I don't hate him at all. I just don't rate him as highly as most on here.

 

[Tapori]

Huge talent and what I always find amazing is if he was say Spanish, playing in a different league, his potential would be seen differently by some on here. If you think of this lads age and what he's already achieving, by 23/24 I believe we will have one of the top 5 forwards in the world. What's also interesting is we could have another 2, in Martial and Rom.

Rashforzoiolainho

Why haven't we signed him? Real and barca want him. 150m bid NOW!

Oh wait, no, just a lad from Wythenshawe, called Rashford. He'll be another dud ending up in the Championship.

 

[Tapori]

I'm also of the opinion Martial is the better player. I am similarly of the opinion that Rashford is a fantastic talent too.

The impression I get though, is that Martial doesn't really have a real chance of progression into being an automatic first XI player, whereas Rashford does. They will continue to be 'rotated' for now (i.e - Rashford starting majority of games and Martial being a sub) but the fear and expectation from me is that, at some point, Martial will stop doing what he's been doing with his 15 minute cameos and Rashford will pull away, with perceived justification due to Tony's recent contributions. Basically, Rashford will have to play a lot worse for a lot longer than Martial for the latter to be an established first XI player, which is unlikely, as Rashford himself is also a top player.

I don't think this is the right order of things personally. I've never seen a caf go on about 'movement' and a primary objective of 'tiring defenders out' between two players so much as this season when the great 'Rashford va Martial' debate has developed. For me, Rashford is by far the busier player of the two. That is likely preferred by Mourinho, and also by English football observers in general who hold 'work rate' very high. Rashford is perpetual motion, which almost looks 'dangerous' in itself when you do it as fast as he can. He can get people off their feet just by running in behind without the ball. Martial is more continental in his style, and more ball oriented. This leads to praise with the ball, and criticism without it. Rashford has 'better' (or simply, 'more', in my opinion) movement than Martial. I do think Martial has very underrated movement though. He's, again, perhaps more continental with it. Rooney ran everywhere, left back, right wing etc. Not necessarily 'great movement', and as a forward player, his movement was not necessarily 'better' than RVN or Hernandez, despite moving 'more'. For me, Martial has more of this kind of movement. That of a striker, perhaps, and not a winger. He's not static in and around the box at all. All of his goals this season have shown good movement to make himself available for the right pass. The last two goals have been from give and go's with Lingard and Rashford respectively - but he didn't lay the ball off and stand still. He was on his bike and got it back through on goal. Another example was his equaliser against Boro last season, running off Zlatan into space to receive the knockdown. What he doesn't do is position himself to receive 30-60 yard passes in the way Rashford does, which means he doesn't possess the same threat in behind on quick transitions. Within a shorter space though, I think his movement is fine.

Said before, but I can see Rashford developing like Bale, perhaps even slightly more rounded. I think he'll have a similar physique to Welbeck, and if by that time, his game is put together, he will be a force of nature. Martial, while possessing physical gifts, will never rely on them in the way Rashford and Lukaku do I don't think. He needs the ball more to his feet.

Why are you not on a podcast?
Superb post.

Martial really does shine with the ball stuck to his feet like glue and Rashford has excellent positional play for his position.

The real question, dare I say it, is would them two up rotating off the wings and in the middle rotating and dropping Laukaku. work for us in certain games?

 

[Rozay]

Why are you not on a podcast?
Superb post.

Martial really does shine with the ball stuck to his feet like glue and Rashford has excellent positional play for his position.

The real question, dare I say it, is would them two up rotating off the wings and in the middle rotating and dropping Laukaku. work for us in certain games?

Thank you kindly.

As for the latter suggestion, it could certainly work, but I don't see Mourinho dropping Lukaku any time soon. I think we are far more likely to see all three on the pitch at a point than the two with no Lukaku (in an important game I mean). After all, we played the two of them yesterday without Lukaku and it worked well. They linked up well together in their first season.

 

[Tapori]

Thank you kindly.

As for the latter suggestion, it could certainly work, but I don't see Mourinho dropping Lukaku any time soon. I think we are far more likely to see all three on the pitch at a point than the two with no Lukaku (in an important game I mean). After all, we played the two of them yesterday without Lukaku and it worked well. They linked up well together in their first season.

Agreed re: dropping Lukaku - Still think would be right for certain games but Mourinho wouldn't do it.
If you did play with all 3 up top, who would be the impact sub? Mata? Mikhi? Bench options are always crucial too.

Can't wait to see how both lads develop. You should do a post about how quickly Henry is positively impacting on Lukaku. Since that very mixed pre-season, his awareness about running the channels and other players has markedly improved. Very deceptive pace-wise as people expect him to be slo-mo.

 

[Rozay]

Agreed re: dropping Lukaku - Still think would be right for certain games but Mourinho wouldn't do it.
If you did play with all 3 up top, who would be the impact sub? Mata? Mikhi? Bench options are always crucial too.

Can't wait to see how both lads develop. You should do a post about how quickly Henry is positively impacting on Lukaku. Since that very mixed pre-season, his awareness about running the channels and other players has markedly improved. Very deceptive pace-wise as people expect him to be slo-mo.

That's the thing with dropping Lukaku. I don't see it happening as his own pace means it wouldn't give us a different dimension if we did. If it were Zlatan leading the line, there would be more logic to leaving him out in certain scenarios - if we were looking to play on the counter for instance. With Lukaku, he can hold the ball up, but he also fits into the fast option, so the only likely thing we will do is to drop/sub Mata and add EXTRA speed, in certain circumstances.

 

[KM]

Think he's injured, can't see him in the training pics today. Went straight down to the tunnel after being subbed. Also look at him falling down here when Martial scores the goal.

 

[Cantona's Collar]

I really don't understand the point of this post, I've seen a few like this before as well. He scored 2 goals and made an assist, he was very clinical with his chances and you want us to omit that from his performance?

I suppose we should drop Lukaku too? Because apart from scoring all he does is miss chances.

Yeah I find this kind of post absolutely baffling. It basically boils down to "if you ignore everything good he did in the game then he did nothing good".

 

[yfoFC]

I really don't understand the point of this post, I've seen a few like this before as well. He scored 2 goals and made an assist, he was very clinical with his chances and you want us to omit that from his performance?

I suppose we should drop Lukaku too? Because apart from scoring all he does is miss chances.

You must think Ronaldo is average if thats how you judge players.

Maybe, but he has contributed the same amount of goals (32 - goals/assists) like Martial since their first games at United. And he played less games than Martial.

He had a few quality touches runs in the channel and turns in the first half. Second half he didn't influence it apart from a good assist.

You can also mention some loose touches and runs into trouble from Martial in the first half of you are being overly critical - the type of thing Rashford gets slagged off for but Martial's highlight reel never shows.

That said, risk taking players are always going to lose the ball more frequently and at this age you expect inconsistency. My only point is you can manipulate what you choose to mention to suit your agenda.

I see a lot of people quoting my post while misunderstanding the point of it all

First off, I didn't mean to imply that goals/assists aren't important as I do like players like RVN, lukaku and the likes that are very effective in the things they do but I was concurring with a post that argued "martial has more to his game than rashford"...

So that is what birthed my post to show martial brings more to the table than rashford and not me down playing the dude or will you say lukaku has more to his game than the likes of Suarez

 

[Stobzilla]

Think he's injured, can't see him in the training pics today. Went straight down to the tunnel after being subbed. Also look at him falling down here when Martial scores the goal.

Copped a nasty one in the head I think, seemed dizzy when coming off. Burton were cnuts last night.

 

[Stobzilla]

Could see Rashford working behind Lukaku with Martial on the left. Would like too see it.

 

[ivaldo]

@Rozay it's not a case of it being a 'continental' viewpoint, you only have to look at Barcelona and the weight they put on workrate to know it isn't something restricted to England.

Rashford movements isn't just more frequent, it's proactive. He'll be moving before the passer has his head up, creating angles and frequently changing the direction of his movement. Martial is largely reactive and prefers to have the ball played to his feet to take advantage of his world class dribbling ability.

 

[Rozay]

@Rozay it's not a case of it being a 'continental' viewpoint, you only have to look at Barcelona and the weight they put on workrate to know it isn't something restricted to England.

Rashford movements isn't just more frequent, it's proactive. He'll be moving before the passer has his head up, creating angles and frequently changing the direction of his movement. Martial is largely reactive and prefers to have the ball played to his feet to take advantage of his world class dribbling ability.

Perhaps. Barcelona are an extreme of sorts and we're quite radical with how they move off the ball though. And tbh, I'm not saying Rashford doesn't have better movement than Martial, I'm just saying I believe there is certainly a difference in 'type' of movement.

I think there is a busyness favoured in the British game that isn't universally translated across the continent, that's all. Rashford runs, 'tires defenders' as I've read many times this season. Jamie Vardy draws plaudits for the same, as did the likes of Wayne Rooney and Alan Smith. South American players tend to often have a similar ethos. That said, players like Ruud van Nistelrooy or Ole Solskjaer had excellent movement without operating in the same way. I think for a centre forward, Martial's movement isn't bad. He isn't as static as is implied. But his movements are shorter. He can certainly improve his movement and add more variety to his runs. He doesn't operate on the shoulder of defenders. But he doesn't stand around marked every time we come forward either. He floats without the ball, but rarely full sprint off the ball like Rashford or Jesse. He can certainly add this, although I'm personally happy with how he moves now. If he actually played weekly, I don't think his movement would stop him getting 20 goals and another 10 or so assists from wide.

You say Rashford moves before the passer gets his head up, but the question is which passer. I think Martial will move and make angles when Mkhitaryan has the ball, but Rashford is just as likely to be on the move when Jones has the ball.

 

[Brightonian]

I honestly can't fathom this thing his critics have of claiming, either outright or by implication, that he's somehow not very technically gifted. Are they watching the same player as me?

Maybe it comes from the fact that he and Martial are always assessed in comparison to one another. Martial has some of the tightest dribbling control I've ever seen from a player at this club. Rashford's is not as good. But it's probably still the second best at the club! Arguably Mata would sneak in ahead but his lack of pace makes it academic, because 99 times out of 100 he's simply not fast enough to attempt to dribble past players. But over the last year, and indeed his entire career, we've seen better tight-control dribbling from Rashford than anyone bar Martial. People simply forget about it because his looser, faster running is more eye-catching and also more likely to lead to a goal because it's what he'll do in more promising attacking situations (breaks, after he beats a man, when there's space in behind etc).

Add to his dribbling the fact that this season he's supplied some of our most sublime assists and key passes. Again, he's in competition with the likes of Mata, Mkhitaryan and Pogba here, world-class creative midfielders.

To claim or suggest that technical ability is somehow a weak link for this player is laughable. Pace is the visible tip of his iceberg but technical excellence is the foundation of his game.

 

[DannyCAFC]

Think he's injured, can't see him in the training pics today. Went straight down to the tunnel after being subbed. Also look at him falling down here when Martial scores the goal.

That all seemed fairly innocuous, can't really see how he got injured from that, looked like he got tripped initially and lost his balance before the pass and that was it?

 

[OL29]

I honestly can't fathom this thing his critics have of claiming, either outright or by implication, that he's somehow not very technically gifted. Are they watching the same player as me?

Maybe it comes from the fact that he and Martial are always assessed in comparison to one another. Martial has some of the tightest dribbling control I've ever seen from a player at this club. Rashford's is not as good. But it's probably still the second best at the club! Arguably Mata would sneak in ahead but his lack of pace makes it academic, because 99 times out of 100 he's simply not fast enough to attempt to dribble past players. But over the last year, and indeed his entire career, we've seen better tight-control dribbling from Rashford than anyone bar Martial. People simply forget about it because his looser, faster running is more eye-catching and also more likely to lead to a goal because it's what he'll do in more promising attacking situations (breaks, after he beats a man, when there's space in behind etc).

Add to his dribbling the fact that this season he's supplied some of our most sublime assists and key passes. Again, he's in competition with the likes of Mata, Mkhitaryan and Pogba here, world-class creative midfielders.

To claim or suggest that technical ability is somehow a weak link for this player is laughable. Pace is the visible tip of his iceberg but technical excellence is the foundation of his game.

Good post, I think people refuse to credit Rashford for his technical ability as they want to pigeonhole him as your typical English pace merchant which is very unfair based on what we've seen from him.

 

[Adisa]

I'm also of the opinion Martial is the better player. I am similarly of the opinion that Rashford is a fantastic talent too.

The impression I get though, is that Martial doesn't really have a real chance of progression into being an automatic first XI player, whereas Rashford does. They will continue to be 'rotated' for now (i.e - Rashford starting majority of games and Martial being a sub) but the fear and expectation from me is that, at some point, Martial will stop doing what he's been doing with his 15 minute cameos and Rashford will pull away, with perceived justification due to Tony's recent contributions. Basically, Rashford will have to play a lot worse for a lot longer than Martial for the latter to be an established first XI player, which is unlikely, as Rashford himself is also a top player.

I don't think this is the right order of things personally. I've never seen a caf go on about 'movement' and a primary objective of 'tiring defenders out' between two players so much as this season when the great 'Rashford va Martial' debate has developed. For me, Rashford is by far the busier player of the two. That is likely preferred by Mourinho, and also by English football observers in general who hold 'work rate' very high. Rashford is perpetual motion, which almost looks 'dangerous' in itself when you do it as fast as he can. He can get people off their feet just by running in behind without the ball. Martial is more continental in his style, and more ball oriented. This leads to praise with the ball, and criticism without it. Rashford has 'better' (or simply, 'more', in my opinion) movement than Martial. I do think Martial has very underrated movement though. He's, again, perhaps more continental with it. Rooney ran everywhere, left back, right wing etc. Not necessarily 'great movement', and as a forward player, his movement was not necessarily 'better' than RVN or Hernandez, despite moving 'more'. For me, Martial has more of this kind of movement. That of a striker, perhaps, and not a winger. He's not static in and around the box at all. All of his goals this season have shown good movement to make himself available for the right pass. The last two goals have been from give and go's with Lingard and Rashford respectively - but he didn't lay the ball off and stand still. He was on his bike and got it back through on goal. Another example was his equaliser against Boro last season, running off Zlatan into space to receive the knockdown. What he doesn't do is position himself to receive 30-60 yard passes in the way Rashford does, which means he doesn't possess the same threat in behind on quick transitions. Within a shorter space though, I think his movement is fine.

Said before, but I can see Rashford developing like Bale, perhaps even slightly more rounded. I think he'll have a similar physique to Welbeck, and if by that time, his game is put together, he will be a force of nature. Martial, while possessing physical gifts, will never rely on them in the way Rashford and Lukaku do I don't think. He needs the ball more to his feet.

Agree with this post.
That's why the current situation is unsustainable. If Mourinho rates Martial (I believe he does), he simply has to out both in the same team. Imo, Rashfor'd games shouldn't be hampered on the right. Most of his work is done without the ball.
We don't know the details of Mourinho's discussion with Tony, but I'm sure it included a route to how he could cement his spot. Otherwise he'd have left.

 

[Adisa]

Think he's injured, can't see him in the training pics today. Went straight down to the tunnel after being subbed. Also look at him falling down here when Martial scores the goal.

The player kicks him even though the ball is long gone.

 

[NoLogo]

While Martial imo is probably the more talented player Rashford is still amazing and both are the future of this club if we give them the chance to develop. Just really happy we have two such talented attacking players.

 

[carlosp]

Think he's injured, can't see him in the training pics today. Went straight down to the tunnel after being subbed. Also look at him falling down here when Martial scores the goal.

The Burton defender knocked heads with Rashford. He will play today.

 

[Bastian]

Needs to work on his first touch

 

[Pat Evra]

Well, watching that free-kick makes me think that's also one of the reasons why he is preffered over Martial at the moment.

Just to clarify, I like them both the same and I am glad that we have both of them at United. Would like to see both of them on the pitch at same time more regularly but I understand why is that not happening at the moment.

 

[11101]

He's been poor again today, so no doubt Martial will come on in his place and score.

 

[Ace of Spades]

I don't think he has been poor, just average.

 

[MThomas]

I don't think he has been poor, just average.

Barely involved in the match at all

 

[kouroux]

Well, watching that free-kick makes me think that's also one of the reasons why he is preffered over Martial at the moment.

Just to clarify, I like them both the same and I am glad that we have both of them at United. Would like to see both of them on the pitch at same time more regularly but I understand why is that not happening at the moment.

On target it would have been a goal, their keeper was completely beaten.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Barely involved in the match at all

Hence average.

 

[Sigma]

I think he's been good today tbh.

 

[Raees]

Decent to average but certainly better than last week.

 

[MThomas]

Decent to average but certainly better than last week.

Barely, just getting less of the ball.

 

[JB08]

Average first half, seems to be struggling a little now.

 

[Amar__]

He is doing more defending than attacking in the second half, what can you expect?

 

[MThomas]

He is doing more defending than attacking in the second half, what can you expect?

Less shite on / off the ball would be good.

 

[Bojan11]

Did great

As left back...

 

[el3mel]

Average performance today.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

He's turning into Dirk Kuyt playing on that left wing.

 

[Devil may care]

Rashford's greatest asset in attack is his movement which he thrives with as a striker, on the wing Martial is the better player with more skill, close control and vision, today Rashord did fine as an auxiliary LB in the awful second half but was poor in the first half bar his freekick.

 

[shield]

Nothing quite came off for him today. Towards the end he had to give up (like the rest of the team) and just chase the ball around and lob the ball up the pitch. Not quite the game for him, with us being almost 'park the bus' type of defensive. He does better when we move the ball quickly.

 

[The No.10!]

He was really poor. And yes I saw the game and the fact that we defended most of the game, but before all of that, in the first half when we were going on the break, him and Mkhi absolutely could not do anything.

He ran the ball over a couple of times, which he tends to do a lot, and I was craving for Martial to come on at 45'.

Hopefully just a one off though.