Marcus Rashford | to redeem or not?

Grande said:
One thing I can’t really get behind, is the need to vilify Rashford.

Yes, I like being sober about what he can offer. There is a reason while both Barca and Tuchel opted for Gordon in the end. Aston Villa chose not to break their wage structure over him. If it was Vinicius, they clearly would have. He can dribble, but is not a very efficient dribbler. He has a good delivery, but struggles seeing the best options for a pass. He is fast, but not as fast as he used to. He has become more of a fighter in attack, but defensive intensity is not his forte. On song, he can be lethal, but he is clearly mentally vulnerable in adversity. I think he’s had a couplenof spells for us where he has looked close to mild depression, tbh, which would explain a few things as well.

I also like being fair to Marcus. He is, after all, one of us. I don’t like repainting him in a negative light to win an argument. He has had a few brilliant seasons for us, and a good few good to very good seasons to boot. This is true. We know that many of his coaches and teammates both at United and on loan have said he is a good lad and a team player. In ways they wouldn’t have said about a Sancho or a Garnacho. Implying that his on- and off-field low points is more about mental fortitude and influence from his entourage than being an egoistical arsehole. He had good productivity numbers for Aston Villa and Barcelona, compared to other good Villa and Barca players, and certainly compared to other players mentioned as possible United targets in recent times, like Anthony or Summerville. I saw himmplay for them too. He didn’t lift up trees, but he played fairly well - certainly not much below the level of what Dorgu or Cunha have in the left sided position. I think this is true as well. Emery, Flick and Tuchel have picked him and played him pretty extensively in short order, after seeing him play and train. It doesn’t make him better than Raphinha, Morgans or Gordon, but it wouldn’t happen to a useless player, or one that destroys team morale. I think this should be fairly obvious if you’re trying to assess him honestly.

I don’t agree if anyone says he is the first team starter we should aim for, or if they say he is a briliiant player destroyed only by incompetent United coaches. But I can sort of accept if ssomeone do. He’s one of us, and som people will defend their own beyond reason sometimes, it’s not an all bad trait. But for people of the Man Utd larger community looking to cast him in a negative light, spin narratives against him, or holding on to emotional grudges against him (not saying this is you, but it happens regularly here), I can’t get behind that.

My belief is that he won’t start the season here, in which case I think will be for the best. I also strongly believe that if either Carrick, who has coached him before, or Bruno, who has captained him in his worst periods for us and is an influential person for Carrick in the dressing room, if either of them think he will have a negative effect on the team, then he will not be reintegrated, period. Meaning also that, if he to my surprise actually is reintegrated, it means that both Carrick and Bruno have vouched for him. If that happens, then I will believe he cam be a positive part of the team and I have no issue with trusting their judgement and letting the past be the past.
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Excellent post and some really good points. Even if he is back and willing to contribute, it does same is the headache of a back up LW and back up striker. We can then potentially look to cash in on zirkzee.
 
golden_blunder said:
How are they any different? Clearly they want mentality of people who want to play for the club. Rashford clearly stated that he wanted a new challenge
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Because one is the players that they are signing and they are entirely responsible for. The other is them being forced to make the best of the obscene decisions of the past.

We need more attackers for next season. We won't be playing 40 games again. If the money isn't there to sign someone without selling Rashford and no one is making an offer then they don't really have a choice.
 
Now I’m analysing in my head who would be the best to keep at United, Rashford or Zirkzee

Neither can play striker effectively
Rashford probably would score more goals
Zirkzee would probably lose the ball less and link up play better

Dilemma
 
golden_blunder said:
That’s actually a good point. All summer and last summer we have been told that we only want players who are desperate to join United. Rashford has played for us and told us that he only wanted to play for Barcelona. Now that’s fallen though we’re going to bend over for him?
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The club are the ones who instigated his exit in the first place. Barcelona were the only club Rashford wanted to leave for, that isn't the same thing as being the only club he wanted to play for.

The intention will remain the same. They'll want a sale this summer but they're opening the door on a return in case that isn't possible. It's kind of astounding to me some people can't see that and are getting angry about it.
 
If anyone really thinks it's a better idea to loan him again and be left with Sesko, Zirkzee, Cunha, Mbeumo, Dorgu and Amad as our only attackers for a full season with CL then it's madness to me.

Sale and new attacking signing or reintegrate Rashford.
 
If he's willing to knuckle down and accept not being first on the teamsheet all the time I don't mind him coming back. He could be a useful option for us.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
If anyone really thinks it's a better idea to loan him again and be left with Sesko, Zirkzee, Cunha, Mbeumo, Dorgu and Amad as our only attackers for a full season with CL then it's madness to me.

Sale and new attacking signing or reintegrate Rashford.
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Which is presumably our plan and it would be far better to sell and buy someone who has a long term future here. But I like that the club is letting the talk about reintegration grow, helps with our negotiation position.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
If anyone really thinks it's a better idea to loan him again and be left with Sesko, Zirkzee, Cunha, Mbeumo, Dorgu and Amad as our only attackers for a full season with CL then it's madness to me.

Sale and new attacking signing or reintegrate Rashford.
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It’s going to be reintegration. The math is what it is.
 
lex talionis said:
It’s going to be reintegration. The math is what it is.
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Looks that way, especially if it's true that he's only willing to go to a big club in Europe.

I do agree with those who say it's not a great option for us but it is better than having no backup.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
Looks that way, especially if it's true that he's only willing to go to a big club in Europe.

I do agree with those who say it's not a great option for us but it is better than having no backup.
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Definitely not optimal, but if — and I know it’s a big if — Rashford knuckles down and acquits himself as a proper professional footballer he’s a fantastic option to turn to when Cunha needs to come off.
 
Affirmation said:
I mean, it has been out there if you did a little research instead of trying and failing to be clever on here. He made it clear who his "dream club" is and that he wants to leave and play for an "elite" club. If this club is supposedly all about prioritising players who only want to play here, then why should it be any different for him?
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Quotes please
 
Villa is obviously now the hope. For all the chat of his wages, is someone willing to pay him £175-200k a week? If they are, we can pay him off.

Rashford on £180k for £25m? I think someone would do that. Sure, we’d have to give him £10-15m of that to leave, but we’re still in profit. I think people get so blindsided by his daft contract, they gloss over the strong part of our hand: he has zero book value. Anything we get is profit. It’s about getting his wages off the books and making that figure as large as possible. I might be wrong, but the talk of reintegration feels like a dance to drive that figure up.
 
IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos said:
Villa is obviously now the hope. For all the chat of his wages, is someone willing to pay him £175-200k a week? If they are, we can pay him off.

Rashford on £180k for £25m? I think someone would do that. Sure, we’d have to give him £10-15m of that to leave, but we’re still in profit. I think people get so blindsided by his daft contract, they gloss over the strong part of our hand: he has zero book value. Anything we get is profit. It’s about getting his wages off the books and making that figure as large as possible. I might be wrong, but the talk of reintegration feels like a dance to drive that figure up.
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Didn't Barca actually offer to buy him, just for less than the €30m clause? I'm wondering if we're regretting not accepting that now.
 
IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos said:
Villa is obviously now the hope. For all the chat of his wages, is someone willing to pay him £175-200k a week? If they are, we can pay him off.

Rashford on £180k for £25m? I think someone would do that. Sure, we’d have to give him £10-15m of that to leave, but we’re still in profit. I think people get so blindsided by his daft contract, they gloss over the strong part of our hand: he has zero book value. Anything we get is profit. It’s about getting his wages off the books and making that figure as large as possible. I might be wrong, but the talk of reintegration feels like a dance to drive that figure up.
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Our problem isn’t profit and sustainability regarding spending, we just don’t have any money.
 
Think Rashford could outshine Dorgu, Amad, Mount and maybe even Mbeumo to be honest. Unless we upgrade, I welcome him back. His wages are a pain in the arse sure, but so is Mount's and that isnt being held against him in the same manner.
 
AjaxCunian said:
Think Rashford could outshine Dorgu, Amad, Mount and maybe even Mbeumo to be honest. Unless we upgrade, I welcome him back. His wages are a pain in the arse sure, but so is Mount's and that isnt being held against him in the same manner.
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All of those players (when fit) have no issues putting in a shift. That’s the main difference. The attempted rehabilitation of a player that would stroll around the pitch looking like he couldn’t be arsed for months , I cannot get my head around.

Nobody who wants this guy back could have possibly have watched a single second of us before Moyes. He’s the antithesis of what everyone should think a Manchester United player is and want one to. Poster boy for the collapse in standards at this club, we need to claw ourselves away from not rush back to
 
Nyland said:
All of those players (when fit) have no issues putting in a shift. That’s the main difference. The attempted rehabilitation of a player that would stroll around the pitch looking like he couldn’t be arsed for months , I cannot get my head

Nobody who wants this guy back could have possibly have watched a single second of us before Moyes. He’s the antithesis of what everyone should think a Manchester United player is and want one to. Poster boy for the collapse in standards at this club, we need to claw ourselves away from not rush back to
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He’s nowhere near Berba levels of lazy
 
It's honestly a shame he didn't come through under Sir Alex. He would be close to breaking our all time scoring record and the press never would have heard a word about any of these issues.
 
golden_blunder said:
They made an offer of €13m allegedly, which was derisory considering we’d already made a cut price deal for them
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At the time it did feel insulting and understandable we rejected.

But I do wonder in hindsight if we'd rather have just got rid of him off the books.
 
I could see him going to Arsenal. Market opportunity for them, especially after missing out on Rogers.
 
Rolaholic said:
From ours :lol:
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Ah fair enough. :lol:

Wouldn’t be my ideal situation either, but I think the club would be open to it considering the lack of interest. Arsenal weren’t excluded from £40m release clause like Pool and City were.
 
Grande said:
One thing I can’t really get behind, is the need to vilify Rashford.

Yes, I like being sober about what he can offer. There is a reason while both Barca and Tuchel opted for Gordon in the end. Aston Villa chose not to break their wage structure over him. If it was Vinicius, they clearly would have. He can dribble, but is not a very efficient dribbler. He has a good delivery, but struggles seeing the best options for a pass. He is fast, but not as fast as he used to. He has become more of a fighter in attack, but defensive intensity is not his forte. On song, he can be lethal, but he is clearly mentally vulnerable in adversity. I think he’s had a couplenof spells for us where he has looked close to mild depression, tbh, which would explain a few things as well.

I also like being fair to Marcus. He is, after all, one of us. I don’t like repainting him in a negative light to win an argument. He has had a few brilliant seasons for us, and a good few good to very good seasons to boot. This is true. We know that many of his coaches and teammates both at United and on loan have said he is a good lad and a team player. In ways they wouldn’t have said about a Sancho or a Garnacho. Implying that his on- and off-field low points is more about mental fortitude and influence from his entourage than being an egoistical arsehole. He had good productivity numbers for Aston Villa and Barcelona, compared to other good Villa and Barca players, and certainly compared to other players mentioned as possible United targets in recent times, like Anthony or Summerville. I saw himmplay for them too. He didn’t lift up trees, but he played fairly well - certainly not much below the level of what Dorgu or Cunha have in the left sided position. I think this is true as well. Emery, Flick and Tuchel have picked him and played him pretty extensively in short order, after seeing him play and train. It doesn’t make him better than Raphinha, Morgans or Gordon, but it wouldn’t happen to a useless player, or one that destroys team morale. I think this should be fairly obvious if you’re trying to assess him honestly.

I don’t agree if anyone says he is the first team starter we should aim for, or if they say he is a briliiant player destroyed only by incompetent United coaches. But I can sort of accept if ssomeone do. He’s one of us, and som people will defend their own beyond reason sometimes, it’s not an all bad trait. But for people of the Man Utd larger community looking to cast him in a negative light, spin narratives against him, or holding on to emotional grudges against him (not saying this is you, but it happens regularly here), I can’t get behind that.

My belief is that he won’t start the season here, in which case I think will be for the best. I also strongly believe that if either Carrick, who has coached him before, or Bruno, who has captained him in his worst periods for us and is an influential person for Carrick in the dressing room, if either of them think he will have a negative effect on the team, then he will not be reintegrated, period. Meaning also that, if he to my surprise actually is reintegrated, it means that both Carrick and Bruno have vouched for him. If that happens, then I will believe he cam be a positive part of the team and I have no issue with trusting their judgement and letting the past be the past.
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Hear hear
 
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