Marcus Rashford vs Tammy Abraham

Noc-Z

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Rashford has a lot of talent. But if he is going to be a striker he needs to gamble more. But is that just natural instinct or can it be taught?...needs to shape up either way.
This is what I don't know. He doesn't seem to have a strikers instinct. But can something so instinctive be learned/developed over time? i'm not so sure. Same with his decision making - not good - but I'm waiting to see if these develop over time. Honestly? If pushed? I'd say they probably can't/won't.

In any case, to me there is no way Rashford should be a starter for us in his current form. But this is where we are unfortunately.

Abraham has honed his skills in the Championship and has gained a lot of confidence from those games. Perhaps a year on loan in the Championship would be good for Rashford. If not then time to let him go.
Exactly, Rashford should already have been developing elsewhere - maybe then he would have honed some of the skills he is lacking as so far it hasn't happened here. Partly not all his fault because with the state of our squad the Old Trafford first team is not a great place to learn/develop right now.
 

Chabon

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The Welback comparisons to Rashford are next level stupid. Welbeck scored 29 goals and 21 assists for man utd in 8300 minutes at a rate of 1 goal/assist every 167 minutes and Rashford has netted 48 goals and 27 assists in 10895 mins at a rate of 1 goal/assist every 145 minutes.
In the league, the fairest point of comparison, it's a goal/assist every 156 minutes for Rashford, whereas Welbeck managed a goal/assist every 153 minutes. Rashford having a much better record in the League Cup doesn't feel terribly meaningful, certainly not enough to make comparisons of their quality as attacking players 'next level stupid'.

Trying to use Welbeck as a stick to beat Rashford requires making the former into a much worse United player than he actually was. They're pretty clearly on a par to me, and that's fine, because maybe Rashford will kick on in a way Welbeck never got the chance to. Rashford's certainly getting the opportunities Welbeck never got, and it'd be nice if the latter got the patience the former was rarely allowed by the 'fans' that congregate on this website.
 

Pow

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Where is the rashfords not a striker come from ? Im sure most people were saying hes not a winger but a striker last season.
Which is it ?
 

roonster09

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Where is the rashfords not a striker come from ? Im sure most people were saying hes not a winger but a striker last season.
Which is it ?
Whether he is a striker or winger doesn't matter, the position where he plays matters and he barely plays as CF.
 

Chabon

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Where is the rashfords not a striker come from ? Im sure most people were saying hes not a winger but a striker last season.
Which is it ?


For point of comparison, here's Arabaham:
 

roonster09

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Since when? Fergie always stated titles are won with strong defences.

The United way was 4-4-2 with fast counter attacking.
We always had one of the strongest attacks too. Usually titles are won by the team which has good attack and defense.
 

Tickle Lad

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Rashford has a better overall skillset but Abraham is the more useful player. Jack of all trades etc etc
 

charlenefan

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Do “vs” threads ever go in favour of United?
Initially no because they're always created with the objective to slight our player

I have no doubt eventually though this'll go the same way as the Rashford v Iheanacho thread did
 

roonster09

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What i meant was most people had him down as a striker. And that was his best position. And now people are saying otherwise.
He made his debut as CF and then played as LW. There is always argument on player position, for him and Martial. Both had same issues.
 

Chabon

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What i meant was most people had him down as a striker. And that was his best position. And now people are saying otherwise.
Fair. Personally, I've no longer any clear idea which position Rashford should play or will end up sticking to in the long run. Abraham, however, is undoubtedly a proper centre forward.
 

Pow

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He made his debut as CF and then played as LW. There is always argument on player position, for him and Martial. Both had same issues.
Where is he best ?
Fair. Personally, I've no longer any clear idea which position Rashford should play or will end up sticking to in the long run. Abraham, however, is undoubtedly a proper centre forward.
Yeah thats what i meant.
 

roonster09

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Where is he best ?
I think his best performance came as LW once Jose took over. Not surprising as he barely played as CF with Zlatan and Lukaku leading the line.

In the ManUtd team Martial looks better fit as CF so he will either play as LW or RW.
 

poleglass red

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the lack of service we give to our strikers means it's very difficult for them to get into games. Rashford got basically nothing at home v Leicester. He scored a penalty and hit the bar with a free kick. I appreciate Pogba wasn't playing but still, there needs to be more. A creative midfielder must be top of the list in Jan regardless of whether Pogba stays or not.
 

ottosec

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the lack of service we give to our strikers means it's very difficult for them to get into games. Rashford got basically nothing at home v Leicester. He scored a penalty and hit the bar with a free kick. I appreciate Pogba wasn't playing but still, there needs to be more. A creative midfielder must be top of the list in Jan regardless of whether Pogba stays or not.
We're obviously creating little, so it's not entirely his fault, but he's also really bad at taking good positions when we are on the offense.

Just remember how many dangerous balls in front of goal has James provided in last 2-3 games? At least half a dozen and Rashford was not even once anywhere near them. Any striker worth his salt would have scored at least a couple of goals from those.

Rashford is probably the better player overall, but I would feel much more confident with Abraham playing as a striker for my team than him.
 

HowieC

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In the league, the fairest point of comparison, it's a goal/assist every 156 minutes for Rashford, whereas Welbeck managed a goal/assist every 153 minutes. Rashford having a much better record in the League Cup doesn't feel terribly meaningful, certainly not enough to make comparisons of their quality as attacking players 'next level stupid'.

Trying to use Welbeck as a stick to beat Rashford requires making the former into a much worse United player than he actually was. They're pretty clearly on a par to me, and that's fine, because maybe Rashford will kick on in a way Welbeck never got the chance to. Rashford's certainly getting the opportunities Welbeck never got, and it'd be nice if the latter got the patience the former was rarely allowed by the 'fans' that congregate on this website.
Taking away Rashford's penalties, he looks even worse in goals to mins. Your Welbeck comparison is useful though - roughly the same level. Rashford has better ball striking technique but both lack close control and ability in tight areas, both lack instinct.

While we should celebrate homegrown talent, it should not be to the detriment of the club's performance.

Both Welbeck and Rashford are/were not even close to starter level.
 

Stacks

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In the league, the fairest point of comparison, it's a goal/assist every 156 minutes for Rashford, whereas Welbeck managed a goal/assist every 153 minutes. Rashford having a much better record in the League Cup doesn't feel terribly meaningful, certainly not enough to make comparisons of their quality as attacking players 'next level stupid'.

Trying to use Welbeck as a stick to beat Rashford requires making the former into a much worse United player than he actually was. They're pretty clearly on a par to me, and that's fine, because maybe Rashford will kick on in a way Welbeck never got the chance to. Rashford's certainly getting the opportunities Welbeck never got, and it'd be nice if the latter got the patience the former was rarely allowed by the 'fans' that congregate on this website.
Ok so numbers wise they may look similar but some people think Martial is much better than Rashford despite having similar numbers. Martial contributed every 139 minutes in the league compared to Welbeck's 153 but hardly anyone would call them "similar ability". I think we can all admit that Rashford hasn't kicked on since he broke through but Welbeck would literally fall over
 

Schmeichel's Cartwheel

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Abraham has honed his skills in the Championship and has gained a lot of confidence from those games. Perhaps a year on loan in the Championship would be good for Rashford. If not then time to let him go.
Sending him to the championship would be daft, a year at a side like Everton or Leicester would be good for him. Unfortunately we don't have the depth to cover his absence though.
 

ash_86

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Amazing how a player who plays purely as CF is compared with player who plays most games as winger.

While we are comping the players,
- Tammy Abraham needs 3 goals to match Sane's best goal scoring season
- Already matched B.Silva's best goal scoring season.
- Just 5 more goals to match David Silva's best goal scoring season.
- Need 7 more goals to match Son's best goal scoring season.
- 4 more goals to match Martial's best goal scoring season.
- 8 more goals to match Firmino's best goal scoring season.
The other comparisons would never see light in the media. Thanks for this.
 

Leftback99

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Many overrate our youngsters especially at a time when the established players aren't that good. Rashford has benefitted from this. He's good but he wouldn't make our forward lines of the past. I'd say Welbeck was a better number 9 at the same age.

People forget other teams have good youth players too, Chelsea in particular as their multiple recent youth Cup wins show.
 

He'sRaldo

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I haven't followed Abraham's career closely unlike Rashford, but from watching him play for Chelsea, he seems to be comfortable being the primary threat.

Rashford and Martial both seem to play better when there are other threats granting them extra space, although Martial seems to be improving in this aspect.
 

BalanceUnAutreJoint

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Rashford is the better footballer, Abraham seems to be the better goalscorer.

They're not remotely the same kind of player, Rashford shouldn't even be considered a pure striker, he's one of those players who make use of pace to attack space and cut inside, not a consistent threat with great physicality that will outmuscle defenders
 

Teja

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Abraham's having a purple patch now, I think he'll eventually fade away and revert to the mean so to speak. Rashford's comfortably better.

xG matches up with the eye test as well, so I'll take it at face value.
 

davidmichael

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Is this actually real ? Abraham has had 5 games in the Premier League and a decent season in the Championship and suddenly he’s better than Rashford ? I’m sorry but this whole underrating/undervaluing our own players whilst overrating other teams players thing is fecking ridiculous at times.

Ok Rashford hasn’t set the world on fire so far this season performance wise overall but is an England regular that’s played in a World Cup, played Champions League football, won trophies, plays across the entire front line and has at times won games for us whilst Abraham has scored a few goals over a 5 game Premier League career and a decent Championship season.

I guarantee that if Abraham was playing for us right now this place would be crazily on his case in a negative way, if Chelsea didn’t have a transfer ban then neither Abraham or Mount would be playing and they’d both be loaned out to a Championship team.
 

Pow

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Abraham's having a purple patch now, I think he'll eventually fade away and revert to the mean so to speak. Rashford's comfortably better.

xG matches up with the eye test as well, so I'll take it at face value.
Does it, 3 goals 2 of them pens, yeah i suppose you are expected to score pens more than any other chance i guess.
 

InspiRED

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Exactly. A more apt comparison would be v Pedro or another form of inside forward, not this petty point scoring where everything United related is deemed shit. This is just a proxy Rashford v Martial thread.
On the other side, this forum is genuinely shit at assessing players. we're just not very good at it so what is this discussion even worth?
This is a really good point and must be why people keep comparing Rashford to Ronaldo, which defies all logic indeed.
 

Shiva87

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This is a really good point and must be why people keep comparing Rashford to Ronaldo, which defies all logic indeed.
People don't compare them. They generally think he can kick on like Ronaldo did after his first few years were very 'no end product' types. Rashford is getting to the same age. He may never get to Ronaldo level, but he can easily become a striker who scores 20-25 goals a season. His target this season has to be 20 in all comps.
 

Stevondo8

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Rashford is probably the better overall player, but has found himself as a generic forward whereas Abraham is a specialist striker. At the moment I’d pick Tammy ahead of Rashford as a #9.
 

Stacks

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People don't compare them. They generally think he can kick on like Ronaldo did after his first few years were very 'no end product' types. Rashford is getting to the same age. He may never get to Ronaldo level, but he can easily become a striker who scores 20-25 goals a season. His target this season has to be 20 in all comps.
People underrate Ronaldo initial seasons. In 2005 he contributed 19 goals and assist which matches Martial best season. All while playing RW in a 4-4-2. In 06 he bust out 21 goals and assists. 43 goals and assists in 2007 whilst playing wing forward.
 

Teja

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Does it, 3 goals 2 of them pens, yeah i suppose you are expected to score pens more than any other chance i guess.
Maybe I'm misreading it but the way I read it was that he scored 7 when he should've scored 2.3 (according to xG) so he's over performing right now.
 

InspiRED

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People underrate Ronaldo initial seasons. In 2005 he contributed 19 goals and assist which matches Martial best season. All while playing RW in a 4-4-2. In 06 he bust out 21 goals and assists. 43 goals and assists in 2007 whilst playing wing forward.
Yes. I remember Ronaldos early years and he was frustrating at times but his quality was never in doubt. By the age Rashford is now ronaldo had been voted into the UEFA team of the year, was Fifpro young player of the year and had also made pl team of the year.

Despite the odd moment of magic from rashford I've lost count of the number of times his quality has been seriously brought into question. Comparisons with Abraham are not unwarranted. They are both good young players, it's just one has been hyped way beyond what his general performances have deserved.