Martín Zubimendi | £51m release clause

Insanity said:
He is a very good player and perfect for you at the base of the midfield with MacAllister and Szobo on either side. He is a very neat and tiddy #6 with a good passing range and calmness on the ball that good players possess.

The reports earlier when Arsenal were interested suggested that the player didn't want to leave Spain. Seems like things have a changes and he is not averse to joining you guys.
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Seems fishy that he wasn't willing to join a Spanish coach at a London-based team which has continuity compared to previous years, but does want to join Liverpool without Klopp, surrounded with quite a bit more uncertainty at the moment.

I know fans like to go "oh he didn't want to move when it was Arsenal but he cannot refuse a club as big as ours when we come calling" but that's not how players think nowadays, so wonder what might have changed his mind if he actually joins us in the end.
 
Craig Ward said:
He's better than every single midfielder we have bar Mainoo (discounting Bruno cos he plays further up).

So the upset is - other clubs are progressively improving. Right now, in midfield we arent
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He isn't what we need in our midfield. We're so porous and easy to play through, that a DLP isn't going to help that. We need a defensive midfield with strength, determination, guile and great off the ball defensive actions to plug the holes in our midfield.

He isn't a case of one of those elite players becoming available where the club decides this is too good a player to pass up on i.e. a frenkie de Jong or a Fabien Ruiz. Zubimendi is nowhere near that level.
 
dinostar77 said:
He isn't what we need in our midfield. We're so porous and easy to play through, that a DLP isn't going to help that. We need a defensive midfield with strength, determination, guile and great off the ball defensive actions to plug the holes in our midfield.
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That's a tactical issue from Ten Hag. He needs to solve that. Even prime Keane/Casemiro would struggle with the suicidal 3-1-6 we set up with, and the huge gaps we leave.

Rather than trying to find a unicorn midfielder, we should improve our tactics, and get a well rounded #6. In which case a DLP is exactly what we need, and would be a great partner for Mainoo in a midfield pivot. And Zubimendi isnt like a Pirlo/Jorginho who dont provide much defensively, he's more like a Carrick/Alonso type.
 
Highfather_24 said:
That's a tactical issue from Ten Hag. He needs to solve that. Even prime Keane/Casemiro would struggle with the suicidal 3-1-6 we set up with, and the huge gaps we leave.

Rather than trying to find a unicorn midfielder, we should improve our tactics, and get a well rounded #6. In which case a DLP is exactly what we need, and would be a great partner for Mainoo in a midfield pivot. And Zubimendi isnt like a Pirlo/Jorginho who dont provide much defensively, he's more like a Carrick/Alonso type.
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It's the one thing I hoped he'd solve this season but it looks like we're just going to throw in a physical player and hope it works.

That might be fine for a midtable team looking to make it difficult for opponents but it's no way for a team of our calibre to play.
 
Highfather_24 said:
That's a tactical issue from Ten Hag. He needs to solve that. Even prime Keane/Casemiro would struggle with the suicidal 3-1-6 we set up with, and the huge gaps we leave.

Rather than trying to find a unicorn midfielder, we should improve our tactics, and get a well rounded #6. In which case a DLP is exactly what we need, and would be a great partner for Mainoo in a midfield pivot. And Zubimendi isnt like a Pirlo/Jorginho who dont provide much defensively, he's more like a Carrick/Alonso type.
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ETH isn't going to change his tactics. Liverpool wanted posession football they brought in Slot. ETH has said in interviews his Utd is about counter attack and rapid transitions.

Even if we bought Zubimendi and played a double pivot we'd still be too easy to play through.

I get he's seen as a lightweight Carrick/Alonso but his stats on FBref show that he isn't in that class.
 
Highfather_24 said:
Wait, werent you advocating playing FdJ as the lone DM yesterday? He's even worse than Zubimendi defensively.

BTW, nobody can play as the lone DM the way we set up, even prime Keano will struggle in our system. The problem is the system, not the players.

Zubimendi is a well rounded #6, for a bit more than 50M, we should be going in for him(pay a bit more than release clause to structure the deal better rather than lumpsum).
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Nope, as the 6 with a combative 8 - the "DM" would be the 8 in that set up. I'm not advocating for FDJ anyway, was just saying how it would work and if you swapped Zubimendi for FDJ in my post, it would be the same point. You'd still need a combative 8. Zubimendi couldn't be the DM in your original post in that thread either.

I agree, but that's why we shouldn't spend £50m on someone that will need a supplementary transfer to get the best out of (same goes for FDJ if he's 50m+ and massive wages). I would say it's the system with the players we've got, not necessarily the system.

I'm personally not convinced he's worth £50-60m and think you're better off looking elsewhere.
 
Real Name said:
I bet most people havent ever seen him play other than in Euros but since Liverpool are in for him he's the next best thing since sliced bread.
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Most will have seen more than that given that he played against United twice in Ten Hag's 1st season.
 
dinostar77 said:
ETH isn't going to change his tactics. Liverpool wanted posession football they brought in Slot. ETH has said in interviews his Utd is about counter attack and rapid transitions.

Even if we bought Zubimendi and played a double pivot we'd still be too easy to play through.

I get he's seen as a lightweight Carrick/Alonso but his stats on FBref show that he isn't in that class.
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- ETH is gonna get sacked real soon if he doesnt, and shouldnt dictate our transfer singlehandely anyway. We have a DOF now
- I disagree
- He isnt in that class, but he's better than the other options we have been linked to, and the current midfielders we have

Lash said:
Nope, as the 6 with a combative 8 - the "DM" would be the 8 in that set up. I'm not advocating for FDJ anyway, was just saying how it would work and if you swapped Zubimendi for FDJ in my post, it would be the same point. You'd still need a combative 8. Zubimendi couldn't be the DM in your original post in that thread either.
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Ah I see. Since we are barely able to buy 1 midfielder, I dont think we are buying a combative 8 anytime soon, unless we go for Rabiot.

But then again, I dont think we need one. I think a double pivot of Mainoo-Zubimendi can work fine. In tougher games we can use Casemiro + Zubimendi/Mainoo.
 
Highfather_24 said:
- ETH is gonna get sacked real soon if he doesnt, and shouldnt dictate our transfer singlehandely anyway. We have a DOF now
- I disagree
- He isnt in that class, but he's better than the other options we have been linked to, and the current midfielders we have


Ah I see. Since we are barely able to buy 1 midfielder, I dont think we are buying a combative 8 anytime soon, unless we go for Rabiot.

But then again, I dont think we need one. I think a double pivot of Mainoo-Zubimendi can work fine. In tougher games we can use Casemiro + Zubimendi/Mainoo.
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I think if we get Ugarte for a good price, we can get someone a bit more expansive in midfield. I would like Rabiot regardless!

I love Mainoo, but he is slow as feck and he does need someone around him more physical. Zubimendi has that with Merino, so having two players who need that's support is a recipe for disaster in my eyes. Happy if I was proven wrong, but I think last season showed we need more legs in there.
 
Smores said:
It's the one thing I hoped he'd solve this season but it looks like we're just going to throw in a physical player and hope it works.

That might be fine for a midtable team looking to make it difficult for opponents but it's no way for a team of our calibre to play.
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Agreed. Seeing our rivals have/signing DMs like Rodri, Zubimendi and Rice, while we are targeting Berge, is disappointing to say the least.
 
He is the kind of midfielder I hate the most. He has a reputation as a playmaker, but if you look closely, you will see a nothing player. Not much defensive work, zero physical presence, and mediocre impact in possession. I reckon he won't do much in the Premier League.
 
Highfather_24 said:
Agreed. Seeing our rivals have/signing DMs like Rodri, Zubimendi and Rice, while we are targeting Berge, is disappointing to say the least.
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Big difference in signing Rice and Rodri and zubimendi. Like comparing a Ferrari (Rodri) a Aston Martin (Rice) and a Ford Focus (zubimendi). You can put go faster strips on the focus, add a race chip and other modifications but it will never be a Ferrari or a Aston Martin.
 
Mcking said:
He is the kind of midfielder I hate the most. He has a reputation as a playmaker, but if you look closely, you will see a nothing player. Not much defensive work, zero physical presence, and mediocre impact in possession. I reckon he won't do much in the Premier League.
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We are talking about Zubimendi, not Donny.
 
dinostar77 said:
Big difference in signing Rice and Rodri and zubimendi. Like comparing a Ferrari (Rodri) a Aston Martin (Rice) and a Ford Focus (zubimendi). You can put go faster strips on the focus, add a race chip and other modifications but it will never be a Ferrari or a Aston Martin.
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And what woud you call Berge/Amrabat then? A Fiat Panda?
 
Mcking said:
He is the kind of midfielder I hate the most. He has a reputation as a playmaker, but if you look closely, you will see a nothing player. Not much defensive work, zero physical presence, and mediocre impact in possession. I reckon he won't do much in the Premier League.
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Needs to get stuck in, innit?
 
RobinLFC said:
Seems fishy that he wasn't willing to join a Spanish coach at a London-based team which has continuity compared to previous years, but does want to join Liverpool without Klopp, surrounded with quite a bit more uncertainty at the moment.

I know fans like to go "oh he didn't want to move when it was Arsenal but he cannot refuse a club as big as ours when we come calling" but that's not how players think nowadays, so wonder what might have changed his mind if he actually joins us in the end.
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Who knows how much truth was there in the reports of him not wanting to leave Spain. Could be a case of sour grapes from Arsenal. Also, may be it was at the time when Arsenal just missed out on the CL & finished 5th and Arteta wasn't exactly flying. I don't remember the summer in which they were linked.
 
Real Name said:
So that's 2 times all in all?
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I'd assume that most in this thread will have, at minimum, seen him twice at the Euros and twice playing against United in 2022/23.That's probably enough of a sample size to ascertain that he's a good player, no? It's also trivially easy to find information, performance data and video footage of players in Europe, especially ones who have been first-team regulars for four years in La Liga.

He's not world class a la Rodri, but Arsenal, Liverpool and United are/were all reportedly interested in signing him this summer (Arteta has apparently been chasing him for some time and I wouldn't be surprised if they come back in for him if it looks like he's open to leaving Spain), which is a reasonably good indicator of his quality. Not worth having a meltdown over, but I can certainly understand why some might feel a tinge of disappointment if a good player in a position we are looking to fill and had reportedly been looking at, signs for a direct rival.
 
Infra-red said:
I'd assume that most in this thread will have, at minimum, seen him twice at the Euros and twice playing against United in 2022/23.That's probably enough of a sample size to ascertain that he's a good player, no? It's also trivially easy to find information, performance data and video footage of players in Europe, especially ones who have been first-team regulars for four years in La Liga.

He's not world class a la Rodri, but Arsenal, Liverpool and United are/were all reportedly interested in signing him this summer (Arteta has apparently been chasing him for some time and I wouldn't be surprised if they come back in for him if it looks like he's open to leaving Spain), which is a reasonably good indicator of his quality. Not worth having a meltdown over, but I can certainly understand why some might feel a tinge of disappointment if a good player in a position we are looking to fill and had reportedly been looking at, signs for a direct rival.
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4 games is really not enough of a sample size, no, not by a long shot. And yes you can watch videos subsequently but some are acting like they watched him play vigirously.
I can get a disappointment of not buying a midfielder of his profile for now, but its typical that once Liverpool are closing in on a deal a player suddenly becomes a world beater.
 
Real Name said:
4 games is really not enough of a sample size, no, not by a long shot. And yes you can watch videos subsequently but some are acting like they watched him play vigirously.
I can get a disappointment of not buying a midfielder of his profile for now, but its typical that once Liverpool are closing in on a deal a player suddenly becomes a world beater.
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I can't agree - four games is enough to form an opinion in my view - the forum aren't professional scouts. As to your second point, that has some truth to it. As I said, he's not a world beater, but a good player in a position we badly need to strengthen before the end of the month.
 
Think he'll probably do better at Liverpool than at United because they already have McAllister who is versatile and can play further forward, but he'll hunt down the ball reducing the amount of defensive work for Zubimendi.

For United that would look like Casemiro playing next to him, not Mainoo. So no thanks
 
NoNonsense said:
Are you joking me?

Liverpool have been scrambling for two months. There is a real sense of desperation among their fans. Liverpool didn't get the manager they wanted this summer. And they haven't got any of the players they've wanted-including our very own Leny Yoro who we stole from under them and Real Madrid.

Liverpool aren't just the only club in the Premier League who haven't signed any players yet. They are the only club in all of Europe's top five leagues who haven't signed anybody yet.

"I envy how quick Liverpool get their deals done" :lol:
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Fans will always be desperate. I mean, they're not really desperate for signings though, are they? Probably need a starting 6, backup striker and backup RW.

From what I've noticed, they don't take much time from having strong links to a player to eventually signing them. While that's so rare for us. Of course, woodward and co. were a joke.
 
Rodri wasn't world class when he signed for city either.

At any rate, it looks like Slot prefers to have two deeper 6/8 midfielders behind a 10, rather than a single 6 behind two 8s. So Mac Allister might be playing more alongside Zubimendi.
 
Brightonian said:
Nah, he's really average. He'll fit in with Slot's football but never add quality to it. Might be found wanting under the pressure of the top of the PL.

I just want to repeat for those in the back that he has a statistically worse pass completion % than Ugarte, 86% vs 91%. And that's with a lower volume of passes per game too, 53 vs 61.
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Yea, judging by the stats there doesn't appear to be a player who is too good to be missed out on but some posters here are convinced he's great.
Highfather_24 said:
Players of this profile(#6 who can defend well, and technically sure, basically Carrick-esque), dont come around too often. Fabinho, Matic, Rodri...they are not too many of this profiles around. Even though Zubimendi is not elite, players of this profile usually peak during 26-30 anyway.

And before somebody says Ten Hag wants a brute ballwinner, we cant cater to Ten Hag's every whim. We have a DOF in place. A Carrick-esque player is exactly what we need to partner Mainoo and Bruno/Mount.
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You appear to have watched him a lot. Care to explain how is he better than Berge? I posted this yesterday and it got ignored by looking at both their stats there doesn't appear to be an awful lot of difference between them for me. Keep in mind that one played for a relegated team and the other played for a team that finished 6th.
saik said:
So anyone here actually watched him play for Real Sociedad last year or is everyone losing their shit because:

  1. He's Spanish
  2. Had a good 45mins playing for a dominant Spain team against an England team who where ultra defensive?

I haven't watched him play or Berge either but looking at the stats there doesn't appear to be an awful lot between them. So can anyone who watched Zubimendi play extensively explain how he is better and worth €60m and if any of the stats are misleading?

FBref Comparison(fbref actually suggested Berge as one of the players who is similar to Zubimendi so I didn't even have to go out of my way to compare them) : https://fbref.com/tiny/gPDre

Passing​


TotalShortMediumLongExpected
PlayerSpanNationPosSquad90sCmpAttCmp%TotDistPrgDistCmpAttCmp%CmpAttCmp%CmpAttCmp%AstxAGxAA-xAGKP1/3PPACrsPAPrgP
Martín Zubimendi2023-24es ESPMFReal Sociedad29.51321154285.722165626960767789.760767789.78612668.311.52.0-0.516136151152
Sander Berge2023-24no NORMFBurnley33.41376156288.124429516856863789.265871192.512515481.222.41.6-0.429129161164

Pass Types​


Pass TypesCorner KicksOutcomes
PlayerSpanNationPosSquad90sAttLiveDeadFKTBSwCrsTICKInOutStrCmpOffBlocks
Martín Zubimendi2023-24es ESPMFReal Sociedad29.5154214736259447200001321713
Sander Berge2023-24no NORMFBurnley33.415621529312171012100001376214

Goal and Shot Creation​


SCASCA TypesGCAGCA Types
PlayerSpanNationPosSquad90sSCASCA90PassLivePassDeadTOShFldDefGCAGCA90PassLivePassDeadTOShFldDef
Martín Zubimendi2023-24es ESPMFReal Sociedad29.5551.87470340140.14400000
Sander Berge2023-24no NORMFBurnley33.4672.01630301080.24701000

Defensive Actions​


TacklesChallengesBlocks
PlayerSpanNationPosSquad90sTklTklWDef 3rdMid 3rdAtt 3rdTklAttTkl%LostBlocksShPassIntTkl+IntClrErr
Martín Zubimendi2023-24es ESPMFReal Sociedad29.5492718292234254.819339243786540
Sander Berge2023-24no NORMFBurnley33.4764635365345858.6244920292399602

Possession​



TouchesTake-OnsCarriesReceiving
PlayerSpanNationPosSquad90sTouchesDef PenDef 3rdMid 3rdAtt 3rdAtt PenLiveAttSuccSucc%TkldTkld%CarriesTotDistPrgDistPrgC1/3CPAMisDisRecPrgR
Martín Zubimendi2023-24es ESPMFReal Sociedad29.51793913971144267321793181266.7527.894253052671344152616118527
Sander Berge2023-24no NORMFBurnley33.41887133494997414411887412048.81639.0107664193091645792323123329
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B20 said:
Rodri wasn't world class when he signed for city either.

At any rate, it looks like Slot prefers to have two deeper 6/8 midfielders behind a 10, rather than a single 6 behind two 8s. So Mac Allister might be playing more alongside Zubimendi.
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Wasn't Rodri only like 22 at the time? Feels like we've seen a lot more of Zubimendi to form an opinion.

Also that's a pretty short midfield if that is how he goes. They'll dominate the ball against a fair few teams so it won't matter, but against a team that can also do that and have physicality in there it could be a problem.
 
dinostar77 said:
Probably but at least we wouldn't be spunking £60mil on the equivalent of a Ford focus.
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Its 50M. And we wont be getting Berge any less than 25-30M either, it seems like.

So rather than going for some perceived better value, I'd get the better player, because we need a starting quality #6.

But it seems like this is gonna be a "no value in the market" type summer.
 
RobinLFC said:
Seems fishy that he wasn't willing to join a Spanish coach at a London-based team which has continuity compared to previous years, but does want to join Liverpool without Klopp, surrounded with quite a bit more uncertainty at the moment.

I know fans like to go "oh he didn't want to move when it was Arsenal but he cannot refuse a club as big as ours when we come calling" but that's not how players think nowadays, so wonder what might have changed his mind if he actually joins us in the end.
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Isn't your wage bill way higher than Arsenal's? I saw Carragher saying it was double theirs a few months ago. I'm not sure if that's quite right but from what I can see online yours is around £320-350 million and Arsenal's is £180-190 mil. So I guess you've just offered so much money that he couldn't say no.
 
Highfather_24 said:
Its 50M. And we wont be getting Berge any less than 25-30M either, it seems like.

So rather than going for some perceived better value, I'd get the better player, because we need a starting quality #6.

But it seems like this is gonna be a "no value in the market" type summer.
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It's £50m straight up if you pay the release clause though. Any fee for Berge could be split over multiple years and include other add ons as part of overall fee.

I'm not disagreeing that the 50m is better value than £30m for Berge, just pointing out that this is something that club has to consider. Liverpool haven't signed anyone yet, not sure they intend to spend big anywhere, so they can just go feck it and pay the release.
 
Xeque_279 said:
Always envy how quick Liverpool get their deals done. There's almost never any fuss there.

Identify a player, strike a deal and done. So efficient.
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It's not quick though, it sounds like they've been trying to convince him to come for ages, which is why they haven't made a bid yet. It's only become news now as he's supposedly relented and now showing a willingness to go to Liverpool, thus they've ramped up their interest publicly.

Also, nothing gets clicked like Man Utd transfer gossip, no matter how true or untrue it might be.
 
Rolaholic said:
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0_Liverpool-city-centre-neglected.jpg



Liverpool is dirty and it's becoming a problem

14 grotty Liverpool eyesores and derelict buildings that residents want to see tackled


VS



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Quality of life is a consideration we all should keep in mind when making career choices. True, if you're a top player in your prime you wouldn't want to play for a shit club solely because of perfect weather and great food, but taking into consideration how lives one's life between matches is reasonable.
 
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