He does not want to go. If he wanted to go Real Sociedad wont accept anything less than release clause.
Martín Zubimendi | £51m release clause
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
That they do very little progressive passing is not in dispute. It is because of how our team plays, how Mainoo naturally plays, and also because of how Mainoo is coached or directed.
United often only had one good player able to pass/dribble his way out of the press, Mainoo. So if Mainoo wasn't picking up the ball from the midfield, United would go long or pass to the wings (winger or fullback) or give the ball to his partner who are more gungho. We know why McTominay is in the 10th percentile. He was one of those players that didn't have that ability so didn't like receiving the ball in those kind of situations. The other midfielders were not afraid of getting the ball in those situations, but were not as successful for different reasons. Casemiro for lack of ability, Eriksen for lack of legs, and even Amrabat was a little faster than Eriksen, but a little less ball playing ability. Why Mainoo couldn't best McTominay in that stat doesn't suggest he can't do it, it suggests that he didn't take charge enough in that phase of buildup. When others got the ball, they couldn't feed Mainoo enough, which would not be a problem with another player that has similar ability on the ball.
I think you guys are understating how United's lack of technical quality both in midfield, and defense contributed to Mainoo's progressive passing stats. Mainoo is at an age where you shouldn't write off his ability to develop this because all it takes is direction. He easily has the tools to be excellent in that area, which I believe is what is most important here. Give him partners with enough legs and ability on the ball and that stat will reflect better on Mainoo (if he doesn't have a donkey coach in Southgate), and it will not seem like it's a task that you need a 80th-90th percentile player to control matches alongside him. Why? Because his midfield partner will be able to pass him the ball if he doesn't constantly go towards the ball. Also because that new player will be able to beat the press, it will make the defensive organization less settled giving him more passing options for volume of progressive passes or it would mean the defense backs off which means more passing between the midfield partners (more touches for Mainoo).
I don't know how you guys can watch last season, discuss our midfield problems and then just take the statistics at face value for the upcoming seasons. This is a discussion about potential midfield partners for Mainoo, not a discussion on the past season where things stay the same, both because of incoming transfers and because Mainoo is a malleable 18 year old talent.
Is he really for sale or ready to switch, or we are only speculating here?
Because this kind of profile we are missing currently and reason why we lose center midfield battle so frequently to even weaker opponents.
Because this kind of profile we are missing currently and reason why we lose center midfield battle so frequently to even weaker opponents.
Alonso as in Xabi Alonso? Peak Alonso?
If he’s better than Xabi Alonso, then we should just pay up and leave the decision to him.
Have Ugarte, Zubimendi and Mainoo in midfield and we are damn bloody well set. Dream scenario.
Yep, he is more complete and much more secure than peak Xabi Alonso. Why do you think Arsenal, Bayern, Barcelona, Atletico and lots of other teams are willing to pay his release clause?
Many people understimate him because he plays at Real Sociedad. Just see the Eurocup final. Rodri out and Zubimendi in? Let´s stop the man-marking from Foden, thats just a Real Sociedad player...
Would personally prefer Zubimendi. Ugarte is a heat seeker and has his uses but not sure they scale up as we get better. We've had a player like that in Fred and his limitations were evident. One factor I haven't seen discussed is that Ugarte is very poor aerially whereas Zubimendi is excellent. This has obviously been a huge weak point for us whether it be with set pieces or midfield aerial duels where we are losing lots of contests.
It might be worth putting in a 80 mil bid or thereabouts as he's that good, just very very unfortunately playing at same juncture as an all time great who is hos countryman no less.
I’d love to see the club bring in both him and Ugarte. Our midfield is shocking and can’t control a game or compete physically. I really think fixing midfield will make every other area better.
Will be 31 in 6 years, do not want.
Doesn't he have a release clause of 50m?
Yes he does. The problem is rather what @elvelux states - the player is sought after by Europe's top clubs and has so far resisted a move. If United were to pull this off it would be more impressive than the Yoro deal.
No.
But an £80m bid for a 50m release clause wouldn't get him closer to agreeing. Of course a neat financial package for the player himself would for sure.
I was really impressed with Zubamendi in the few times I've watched him. He's far fetched but I guess so was Yoro.
No, it wouldn't. It would only make a potentially willing seller (yet to be seen) more keen to accept payments spread over a number of years.
I can't remember the podcast, but someone said this rumours started in Germany, which is odd given it involves a Spanish based Spain international and Man United. Maybe it's due to Bayern's interest.
Wouldn't it make sociedad more eager to sell him and so urge him to accept the deal if we we were to pay over the odds for him?
All in all I always thought he'd be one of those guys to spend most of his career in his home country but it would be a massive coup If we were to end up with him.
Maybe.
What midfielder does the cafe even want
We need an option or a temp fix this summer. Development considered, Adam Wharton is the guy for us. I would like us to address as much as we can this summer because next summer if he has a great season I want us to be in the position to be able to go and spend 80-100m on him as he’s the missing piece in our XI.
All the options mentioned so far this summer have pros and cons, Adam Wharton’s inly negative is age and experience. Profile wise, he is perfect. Theoretically, he should get better and better as he physically develops, but 1.5 seasons in the PL, plus a season in the Championship would be good experience by next summer. He’s tall, very good on the ball, a tenacious ball winner and has a great passing range. He’s also English as a nice bonus.
Whether we get Ugarte on loan, or Rabbit on a free as an experienced option, I’d be fine with that but we should be laying groundwork for the long term arrival of Adam Wharton.
Would we even be able to afford him in a year or two if he has that much potential? Feels like someone we should skip ahead and go for I’m right away before he’s unattainable.
Why not? Football hasn’t changed so much that Manchester United can’t afford the best player from Crystal Palace.
The only thing that would make it difficult is if we find ourselves in a summer where we again need to also buy half a team. However, we theoretically have right back and centre half covered, with a top prospect coming through at LB. We hopefully have our long term CM, one long term winger (potentially two) and maybe our long term centre forward. The DM is the obvious gap, and I’m hopeful we can make one big signing next summer if all goes to plan, and if not, we raise funds by selling some of those who are not what we hoped they would be if we want to buy others.
Contrary to what I’ve read on here this summer, I think we’d have to wait for Wharton’s price to go down rather than need to act before it goes up. Palace would not be considering a sale at all at this point, having bought him only 6 months ago, and for big money for them at 22m. It would be a hostile sale and as a result, priced accordingly. I think the longer he’s there the more amicable any departure would be.
We've spent the best part of 2 years trying to convince the guy to leave Sociedad, to no avail. I've no doubt his fellow Basque guy Arteta would have been personally involved and trying to sell a move, now with added champions league football as well, so I'd be surprised if Utd could prize him out of Sociedad.
I'm not having what the Sociedad guys in here are saying though, there's no way he's better than Alonso ffs.
I'm not having what the Sociedad guys in here are saying though, there's no way he's better than Alonso ffs.
Don't think this is a goer, he wants to stay in Spain.
Maybe he’s smart, like Robin van Persie.
Zubimendi is definitely good enough to play for Man Utd but he is not better than Xabi Alonso.
Perhaps one day he will be. At Zubimendi's age, Alonso was not operating at the level he later would at Real Madrid. However, right now, there's no way that Zubimendi is better than Alonso.
That's not an attack on Zubimendi, its just making the point that at his peak Alonso was one of the best midfielders to ever do it. Alonso had the ability to basically run the entire Real Madrid midfield, and more or less did so with Khedira running ahead of him, and Ozil adding the gloss in the advanced role. It cannot be underestimated what level he was operating at during that time period. People can say Mourinho needed the trivote to stop Barcelona but that was one team, probably the best team ever, you cannot use that as the benchmark for Alonso's ability.
Like you, I have watched more Alonso games than I care to remember (especially the ones at Liverpool, a time in which I reviled him as a player). IMO Alonso can be put up there with any #6 you care to mention. Zubimendi is on the way to being something like that, and he would certainly be my first choice midfielder to buy this summer, but he's not Xabi Alonso. Not yet anyway.
Even though he's the type of player we need, from the little I've watched I've not been that impressed. Just last year we had the same issue with Amrabat and it ended up being painfully obvious he wasn't of the required quality.
Zubimendi is a good player, I don't doubt that but the type of player he is makes people overate his actual ability.
Zubimendi is a good player, I don't doubt that but the type of player he is makes people overate his actual ability.
What midfielder does the cafe even want
Put £70m on the table for Wharton and see what palace do. Selling mctominay, somehow shifting Casemiro and we could afford that.
It’s clear zubimendi would rather stay in Spain and we know how it usually turns out when players come here not really fancying it.
First of all, I don't think anyone is arguing here that there's an issue with Mainoo's abilities, much less that he's not a better passer than McTominay. But it's simply a fact that he doesn't contribute much in progressive passing. Since most of our other midfielders, when playing the same position, do manage to contribute a lot of progressive passing, that is clearly not a specific trait that is caused by the way the team plays. That is not "taking statistics at face value" - firstly, it's plainly visible if you watch games attentively, and also the volume of progressive passing is actually one of the things that are straightforwardly measurable. It needs context yes, but I don't think the one you're building here is very convincing. Also if we're talking about context, he also has a very low volume of carries and touches - is that also a function of how the team plays? The big context here is he's got a low level of involvement generally, not just when it comes to progressive passes. Again, this is not an observation you need to stats in order to make.
Of course, he may develop into someone who takes care of a big chunk of progressive passing. But I just don't see any rational basis for assuming he's going to be the one taking care of that piece of business this coming season. Maybe his generally limited involvement is related to how the team plays - that seems plausible, he seems to me exactly the type of player who would benefit from a more possession-oriented style. But you know, it's going to be that same style this season too, so if that's the reason why should we expect him to be making a lot more progressive passes?
And for the record, I think he's great, I've not liked an academy graduate more since at least Rashford. But he's not everything, and this is so far not one of the things he is.
The aerial point is a good one. For me I'd still take Ugarte because I think he's better for us (and arguably a better player) in so many other ways. Just my opinion, of course.
I think the difference from Fred is that Fred was never a DM, or even really a sitting midfielder. Ugarte is. He plays as the deepest midfielder. That's the position we need to fill. So I don't expect the same issues we had with Fred. (Again, I also think Ugarte is just a better quality player than Fred, although of course it's hard to compare because as I said, they don't really suit the same position.)
We can still pay more than his release clause. It’s better pay additional €5m-€10m to pay in instalments rather than paying his whole release clause value in one go.
Better than Alonso is a bold statement, it’s basically like saying he’s actually better than Rodri because I rate Alonso higher than Rodri. An interesting one to see how far Zubimendi can go. Hopefully, we’re the one who’s going to sign him.
But who is actually a better player, Ugarte or Zubimendi? If we only want to buy one of them, that is
Neither of them are better than each other, they offer their teams completely different things. All comes to personal preference, but I think if we got Ugarte he would improve us more on his own than Zubimemdi. Zubimemdis qualities potentially could add more if we add a ball winner too.
To think about it, if we had all three, then we could play 3 different pairings in the middle:
1) Ugarte - Mainoo
2) Ugarte - Zubimendi
3) Zubimendi - Mainoo
With every one of them having about 40 starts per season: it’s a lot of minutes for players to be happy with playing time, yet we won’t be overplaying either of them.
I actually think it would be in the best interests of all parties if Wharton played a full season at Palace.
The type of player you want on your side in the big games where you don't have much time.
This makes a lot of sense. But I heard he doesn't want to leave Spain.
If we signed him he’d be starting most games plus we have europa.
I don’t mind ugarte either, but us having England’s two central midfielders for the next x years would be brilliant ( I think in the next year or so Wharton will be playing instead of rice).
If he stays at palace and excels then you can add another £30m to the price plus he’d have a load of other clubs wanting him. I’d prefer us to go for it now personally
Just offer 75m paid in 15m installments for 5 years similar to the Zirkzee deal
Hard to get excited about this after only one loose link made between us and him. It's him or Ugarte, and it sounds like the latter is further advanced - which i'm not particularly displeaed with.
This guy has Barca written all over him.
This guy has Barca written all over him.