Martial agent looking for a new club for him

OL29

Full Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
2,869
Location
Manchester
It greatly depends on whether we need the money and whether Pogba stays. As things stand, Martial is second choice striker and third choice left winger. Long term, I don’t see him staying as a back up and I don’t think he’s what we need up front. If the choice is keep Martial and not have the money to spend on midfield, I’d look to sell him. If not, we might as well keep him.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on your last paragraph.
Long term I do think he'll become obsolete, I just don't see the sense in selling him this season, even if we use the funds to buy a midfielder. With Rashford looking likely to miss the start of the season, and Cavani only capable of starting one match a week, I think he'll be needed on the left wing and up top. Despite his poor form last season, he's still a better option than Dan James on the left, and arguably he knows how to play the CF position better than Greenwood.
 
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
13,501
Location
Behind the right goal post as "Whiteside shoots!"
We need to get a new striker if he leaves. We have Cavani, Martial, Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho for 5 positions (not including youngsters like Diallo and Facuno). With Greenwood still a kid, Sancho needing to settle, Rashford injured and Cavani not able to play every match, we need to keep Martial.

He did not fulfill his potential, but I would rather want him on the bench than James or Lingard. It is going to be a long and tough season so unless we sign a striker, Martial will stay. And if he can get back to anything close to 2019-2020 season, good for us.
3 positions?

Just my opinion, but while young, Greenwood is learning but past the debut/awe stage and I don't think Sancho will have any issue settling.

I'd also rather keep Lingard over Martial... didn't think I'd say that about Lingard over hardly anyone :)

I think we start Sancho Cavani Greenwood and Rashford comes back in October. Could also play 2 of those 3 and Bruno just behind.

I want squad depth and I wouldn't bin off Martial for peanuts but if someone offered £30m+, I'd take it.
 

acnumber9

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
19,187
He only outperformed him for 1 year, stats don't support your point about the 3 years prior to last season.

They also have scored the same number of league goals with Rashford having played more games.
He outperformed him in 17/18 and 18/19 as well. That’s 3 out of the last 4 years. He’s outscored him in 4 of the last 5 seasons. Over that entire period he’s got more goals and assists and played less games as a striker. Only one season has Martial been the better performer and only just. That was a season where Rashford broke his back.

And again, Rashford is two years younger.
 

acnumber9

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
19,187
Long term I do think he'll become obsolete, I just don't see the sense in selling him this season, even if we use the funds to buy a midfielder. With Rashford looking likely to miss the start of the season, and Cavani only capable of starting one match a week, I think he'll be needed on the left wing and up top. Despite his poor form last season, he's still a better option than Dan James on the left, and arguably he knows how to play the CF position better than Greenwood.
It depends on our plans. I think a starting midfielder is a better asset to us in our current position than a third choice left winger and second choice striker. If Greenwood continues to progress, Martial could quickly find himself third choice striker as well. If we don’t intend to re-invest the money then he might as well stay.
 

kthanksbye

Full Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
812
Location
United Arab Emirates
After watching Martial play last season, I don't know how anyone can argue that he tried to compensate for his poor goal return by putting in an extra yard of effort, the way he moves around the pitch when he doesn't have the ball would be acceptable if he was banging in 30+ goals a season, which he's clearly incapable of.

A lot of his bad form was also down to effort too, you rarely see him gamble at the far post, or break a neck to get in front of the defender when the ball is played from the wide areas. These are things that a #9 has to do regardless of what kind of form he is in.

Think he gets another season purely because we had to address the right wing, CB, RB and Pogba situation this summer, not because he's done anything to deserve it.
Wouldn't mind selling him in Jan if we can find a buyer and someone like Ings is available.
 

OL29

Full Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
2,869
Location
Manchester
He outperformed him in 17/18 and 18/19 as well. That’s 3 out of the last 4 years. He’s outscored him in 4 of the last 5 seasons. Over that entire period he’s got more goals and assists and played less games as a striker. Only one season has Martial been the better performer and only just. That was a season where Rashford broke his back.

And again, Rashford is two years younger.
To be fair, if we're using the argument that you’d expect Martial to score more as he’s played more as a striker, I’m pretty sure Rashford played in that position more in 18/19, 17/18 and 16/17, yet he only scored 5 more goals than Martial in that time, despite playing in 25 more matches. I haven't got time to go through the assists but, I’m pretty sure, Martial had a better ratio of goals and assists per game in that period than Rashford.
 

acnumber9

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
19,187
To be fair, if we're using the argument that you’d expect Martial to score more as he’s played more as a striker, I’m pretty sure Rashford played in that position more in 18/19, 17/18 and 16/17, yet he only scored 5 more goals than Martial in that time, despite playing in 25 more matches. I haven't got time to go through the assists but, I’m pretty sure, Martial had a better ratio of goals and assists per game in that period than Rashford.
Yeah, I think he did a little in that period. Over the course of their careers overall , Martial has played up front more. If we’re going back to 16/17 we’re comparing a 19 year old with 18 games under his belt to a 21 year old with 120 games. It’s not a like for like comparison. Which is why I initially used a more fair comparison.

Another thing I think we should consider is their big game impact. Rashford wins that at a landslide for me. Ultimately, I think I’ve said all I can on the argument. I’m not suggesting they’re miles apart, but when we do a comparison I only see one winner.
 

OL29

Full Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
2,869
Location
Manchester
Yeah, I think he did a little in that period. Over the course of their careers overall , Martial has played up front more. If we’re going back to 16/17 we’re comparing a 19 year old with 18 games under his belt to a 21 year old with 120 games. It’s not a like for like comparison. Which is why I initially used a more fair comparison.

Another thing I think we should consider is their big game impact. Rashford wins that at a landslide for me. Ultimately, I think I’ve said all I can on the argument. I’m not suggesting they’re miles apart, but when we do a comparison I only see one winner.
Yeah I’m not really sure what I’m arguing because I do agree with this to be honest :lol: Rashford is undoubtedly better
 

Revan

Assumptionman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
45,351
Location
Munich
3 positions?

Just my opinion, but while young, Greenwood is learning but past the debut/awe stage and I don't think Sancho will have any issue settling.

I'd also rather keep Lingard over Martial... didn't think I'd say that about Lingard over hardly anyone :)

I think we start Sancho Cavani Greenwood and Rashford comes back in October. Could also play 2 of those 3 and Bruno just behind.

I want squad depth and I wouldn't bin off Martial for peanuts but if someone offered £30m+, I'd take it.
Yep, for 3 positions.

I think that Sancho and Cavani will start, with the third position between Martial and Greenwood (Martial also deputizing Cavani in some games). Then when Rashford comes back, probably both of them go to bench.

We always complained about depth, and now we have a lot of it. No need to go back to not having depth again.

Lingard over Marrial is nonsense IMO. Martial is far better. To be fair, if he goes back to his form of the previous season, he starts ahead of everyone except Bruno and possibly Sancho. A big if, of course.
 

acnumber9

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
19,187
He only outperformed him for 1 year, stats don't support your point about the 3 years prior to last season.

They also have scored the same number of league goals with Rashford having played more games.
He scored 13 goals and had 10 assists in 18/19 compared to Martial’s 12 goals and 3 assists. Martial had a goal or assist every 155 minutes. Rashford had a goal or assist every 143 minutes.

In 17/18 Rashford had a goal or assist every 113 minutes. Martial was every 116 minutes. Unless we’re using vastly different stats then you’re wrong. I just used Transfermarkt.

Extrapolate it over the whole period and Rashford wins comfortably. Before we consider big game performance and their respective ages.
 

Raven

Full Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
4,882
Location
Ireland
So 28 pages and still no reliable reports on him leaving... I'd say this is bollocks.
 

Shark

@NotShark
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
23,804
Location
Ireland
I dont really see the benefit in letting Martial go unless we are 100% bringing in some type of replacement. Rashford will be out for a while at the start of the season and then we only have James and Sancho rotating. Not ideal.
 

Matthew84!

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
Messages
942
Location
England, herefordshire
Martial is probably not worth much at the moment after having his worst season but he can only get better, only way he could get worse is if he didn't play at all or starting scoring own goals.
We might be best of keeping him and getting his confidence up and perhaps trying to use him next summer when we're after another striker.
I think he can be amazing but his attitude isn't right, doesn't seem to work hard enough after a little set back but I am hoping he makes me eat humble pie this season.
 

Mr Smith

Full Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2015
Messages
3,482
Location
Australia
Is that where we're at now...just the effort and commitment? If that's the main criteria now then it just makes Solskjaer's job so much easier. So why were so many fans on here ragging on the likes of Rojo? Nobody could ever doubt his commitment or effort in games either. I'm guessing you have a different set of criteria for Rashford though. I keep forgetting that people are constantly confusing Martial's lack of inane grinning and theatrics with effort and commitment.
Rashford was excellent in a number of key games last season; the same cannot be said for Martial. Off the top of my head:

PSG away: Was dangerous throughout and scored the winner
Leipzig at home: Came off the bench to score the winner
Shefflied United away: Scored two goals and drove our comeback after going a goal down
Newcastle home and away: Scored in both games and terrorised Newcastle throughout

All this while carrying a shoulder injury through the majority of the campaign. Rashford also "tore it up" so to speak on multiple occasions in 2019/20.

Back on topic; I'm a big Martial fan but we are in last chance saloon now. The competition in this team should always be high, but it's getting higher with the signing's we're making. If he doesn't raise his level this year he'll be gone, no question.
 

OleBoiii

New Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
6,023
Unless we sign another attacker, we'll probably need him for the upcoming season. Rashford will in all likelihood be out for some time because of his shoulder.

I reckon we'll keep him for another year and then sell him next summer if he hasn't taken that final step up. His contract expires in 2024 so it's not like we have to sell him for peanuts next year.
 

Idxomer

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
5,701
He scored 13 goals and had 10 assists in 18/19 compared to Martial’s 12 goals and 3 assists. Martial had a goal or assist every 155 minutes. Rashford had a goal or assist every 143 minutes.

In 17/18 Rashford had a goal or assist every 113 minutes. Martial was every 116 minutes. Unless we’re using vastly different stats then you’re wrong. I just used Transfermarkt.

Extrapolate it over the whole period and Rashford wins comfortably. Before we consider big game performance and their respective ages.
Using transfermarket, they look equal in 17/18, Rashford better in 18/19, and Martial in 19/20. The only significant difference happened last season.

Their league performance over the course of their careers including last season looks almost identical.
 

The United Irishman

"Martial is championship material at best"
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
2,842
Location
Birmingham
I take no issue in people's responses to my post, especially if they disagree with me as forums are all about debating.

Saying he's had 2 good seasons out of 6 is also a bit of an unfair assessment? 3 of those were through a Mourinho phase, who really didnt rate the chap and gave him fewer minutes than most of the other forwards ( still joint 2nd Goals and assist in JM's 1st season and joint 3rd in his 2nd).

Is it a coincidence when he was given more game time that he was top scorer and assist maker in those seasons? Will not argue that last season was rubbish, and the Mou/Ole transition year, but I believe in the chap if we can get consistent gametime for him.
Them other 4 seasons were absolute stinkers. There is no doubt he has great feet and can score a worldy from time to time, but it is not enough. as I said, I'd take a Chicharito type striker over him any day of the week, someone who only cares about putting the ball in the back of the net. We might get good money for him, we have all been waiting too long for him to explode into a world class forward and it just has not happened.
 

acnumber9

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
19,187
Using transfermarket, they look equal in 17/18, Rashford better in 18/19, and Martial in 19/20. The only significant difference happened last season.

Their league performance over the course of their careers including last season looks almost identical.
I’ve given you the stats. There’s only one in the last four years where Martial has outperformed Rashford. He did it ever so slightly in the season Rashford broke his back. Combine the four and Rashford has outperformed him over that time period, both in absolute terms and per minute. That was my initial point and all you’ve done is say nah without backing it up at all.

They don’t just play in the league though. Champions League is quite important too. And Rashford performs comfortably better there. He also performs better in big games.
 
Last edited:

Red Shorts

Forrest Gimp
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
9,970
Location
Location, Location
Them other 4 seasons were absolute stinkers. There is no doubt he has great feet and can score a worldy from time to time, but it is not enough. as I said, I'd take a Chicharito type striker over him any day of the week, someone who only cares about putting the ball in the back of the net. We might get good money for him, we have all been waiting too long for him to explode into a world class forward and it just has not happened.
He's a marmite character for United fans. Get where you're coming from, and if we cut our losses I would accept it, but would not be surprised at all to storm it for the next team he plays for. So seriously wont want him to stay in the PL
 

bosskeano

Full Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2020
Messages
1,676
Location
Charleston
Martial is too much like pogba in that he's hit or miss and when he's not playing well it's like playing with a man down on the pitch

Clearly he's a guy that we could use to land someone else or just sell outright for 25m.....just worried that rashford will be out for a few months and don't want to be short of attacking players going into the season
 

RedDevil@84

Full Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
15,808
Unless we sign another attacker, we'll probably need him for the upcoming season. Rashford will in all likelihood be out for some time because of his shoulder.

I reckon we'll keep him for another year and then sell him next summer if he hasn't taken that final step up. His contract expires in 2024 so it's not like we have to sell him for peanuts next year.
If his performances are as bad as last season, then he is useless as a backup.

If his performances are as bad as last season, then people would buy him only for peanuts.
 

buchansleftleg

Full Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
2,724
Location
Manchester
I think it's safe to say we can't expect Martial to do any legwork on sorting out a transfer as he usually depends on others to do all the hard work for him.

He will go on a few mazy runs trying to sort out a transfer to clubs that he has no chance of breaking into.

He will then moan and complain that he is not getting the "service" from the club in finding one of his preferred options to buy him.

He will then sulk and remove himself from social media for a few weeks, imagining this will create a groundswell of public opinion in his favour.

We should just offer him out to a variety of third string clubs like Lyon, Galatasaray etc that might still be interested based on his past fleeting moments and accept the financial loss rather than have him creating a bad atmosphere.

Even with Rashford being absent for a while I'd prefer we gave some playing time to a youth prospect than indulge in Martial's petulant lazy behaviour.
 

Raven

Full Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
4,882
Location
Ireland
Them other 4 seasons were absolute stinkers. There is no doubt he has great feet and can score a worldy from time to time, but it is not enough. as I said, I'd take a Chicharito type striker over him any day of the week, someone who only cares about putting the ball in the back of the net. We might get good money for him, we have all been waiting too long for him to explode into a world class forward and it just has not happened.
Absolute stinkers :lol:

What about the season he had 10 goals and 10 assists by January, only to be dropped for Sanchez? What about the following season where he was on fire until January and his season was effectively ended by injury? You're utterly delusional if you're referring to either of those seasons as "absolute stinkers".

It's garbage like this that allows me to sift through posters who should be taken seriously and those who shouldn't. Thanks for saving me some time.
 

hobbers

Full Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
13,922
He's not leaving because absolutely nobody wants him for £250k a week. Not even PSG or Barca are that dumb.

And I expect Martial to be about as motivated to find a club where he can get regular football as he is at winning the ball back. Especially when he's earning double his worth here and will be halving his wage if he goes anywhere else.

Honestly his contract was a worse decision than De Gea and Jones' deals put together.
 

OL29

Full Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
2,869
Location
Manchester
He's not leaving because absolutely nobody wants him for £250k a week. Not even PSG or Barca are that dumb.

And I expect Martial to be about as motivated to find a club where he can get regular football as he is at winning the ball back. Especially when he's earning double his worth here and will be halving his wage if he goes anywhere else.

Honestly his contract was a worse decision than De Gea and Jones' deals put together.
A bit hyperbolic no?
 

Red Shorts

Forrest Gimp
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
9,970
Location
Location, Location
Absolute stinkers :lol:

What about the season he had 10 goals and 10 assists by January, only to be dropped for Sanchez? What about the following season where he was on fire until January and his season was effectively ended by injury? You're utterly delusional if you're referring to either of those seasons as "absolute stinkers".

It's garbage like this that allows me to sift through posters who should be taken seriously and those who shouldn't. Thanks for saving me some time.
Kind of the point I made during the time too. Even during his lower-performance seasons, the guy pulled good numbers through.

As much as we have exciting youth on our wings, I dont see them being ready to bring the same stats.
 

bosskeano

Full Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2020
Messages
1,676
Location
Charleston
i've a feeling if Martial sticks around this season somehow he will be used as part of some sort of deal to get Haaland
 

Raven

Full Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
4,882
Location
Ireland
Kind of the point I made during the time too. Even during his lower-performance seasons, the guy pulled good numbers through.

As much as we have exciting youth on our wings, I dont see them being ready to bring the same stats.
It's the same thing people have been saying for years. It's getting beyond tiring to try and converse with people who quite clearly have no interest in actually watching United.