Martial is our most important player

Mr PG

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
960
When, for instance, was the last time Martial truly terrorised an opponent? The last game in which he really knotted someone up and ran them ragged?

If you gave all the top teams a choice...whom do you think they would pick between Martial and Rashford?
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
46,314
Location
France
Undoubtedly true, but I'm not sure what it's supposed to mean in this context? There's plenty of players that did play for United at 19, and went through a relatively sudden transformation in their early to mid 20s. Likewise with players across many top teams.
I was going to ask if it means that we should expect him to develop faster or understand that we signed a player that was at the very beginning of his professional career? The problem with development is that it also depends a lot on the environment, either way there is a case to go in both directions consider that we aren't the place for him in the future or consider that he is only a 24 years old player.
 

Infra-red

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2010
Messages
9,525
Location
left wing
I think Martial and Rashford should be competing for the same left-sided forward role, with a new #9 up top (someone who can hold the ball up a bit and create chances for whoever we happen to have running that left channel).
 

MadMike

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
9,022
Location
London
Martial is good but we need to upgrade in order to move up a level. Simple as that for me, really.
Could be said for pretty much everyone in the squad, but who are these attainable CFs out there that are a guaranteed upgrade on Martial?

Pretty much all the big money CF transfers of the last few years or even players deemed to be of the highest potential have flopped or tailed off. Lukaku, Morata, Jovic, Lacazette, Griezmann, Belloti, Piatek etc. etc. Let's see who some of Europe's big clubs are playing at CF and relying upon...

Juve on Ronaldo
Real on Benzema
Barca on Messi and Suarez
Atleti on Morata
City on Aguero
Liverpool on Firmino
Milan on Ibra
Inter on Lukaku
Chelsea on Abraham
Tottehnam on Kane
Arsenal on Auba
Bayern on Lewandoski
PSG on Icardi (previously Cavani)
Monaco on Ben Yedder

The top scorer in our league is Vardy (age 33), in Italy it's Immobile (30) followed by Ronaldo (35), in Germany Lewandoski (31), in Spain it's Messi (32) followed by Benzema (32) and in France it's Ben Yedder (30 in the summer). The pattern that I see is that so-called big clubs clubs are increasingly relying on tried and tested veteran players in their 30s or persevering with players that have come through their ranks and have done well enough. There is a real lack of top talent at CF and many false hopes. I wouldn't be surprised at all if a big club takes a punt on Dembele in the summer and he ends up flopping under the weight of expectation.

Our forward line of Martial, Rashford and Greenwood is the youngest in the league and probably the youngest of all the top teams in Europe. And they are kind of delivering the goods, when you consider the lack of service from midfield. Given the real lack of quality alternatives I reckon they're worth persevering with. I think we have a grass is greener on the other side mentality when we compare our CF players with potential starlets especially those from other leagues.
 

noodlehair

"It's like..."
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
13,463
Location
Flagg
I think Martial and Rashford should be competing for the same left-sided forward role, with a new #9 up top (someone who can hold the ball up a bit and create chances for whoever we happen to have running that left channel).
Unless Rashford's back is permanently broken it wouldn't be much of a competition at this point.
 

Foxbatt

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
8,588
He was Trashford according to the Caf when Martial was injured. Martial returns and Rashford becomes Messi reincarnated apparently . Is that a coincidence or do they both thrive off each other and play better ?
Of course they will. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see that. Now defenders have only to look after Martial. When Rashford is playing they have to look after two players. So they are bound to get more space playing together instead of playing alone.
 

noodlehair

"It's like..."
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
13,463
Location
Flagg
I really don't get how Martial's brain works. When he has stayed in the centre of the pitch this season, he has found it quite easy to score goals. He gets enough goals in that position to actually justify being played there.

Yet he insists on spending 90% of games just pratting aimlessly around on the left wing...and it is literally just aimless pratting around. He just goes and stands there by default. Doesn't take on his man, or run in behind, or play anyone else in behind. Just arses around there.

The Chelsea game, he came into the box, once, scored a really good striker's goal...so you think he'd think "ahh that worked, I'll do it more often"...he spent the ENTIRE rest of the game pratting around on the left wing. He hasn't scored a single goal from the left all season. I mean if he was a threat from there or at least was going over there to take players on or create space for himself, I'd get it. ALL of his goals this season though, have come when he's been in the middle...if he was there all or even most of the time he'd be scoring even more.

We're missing Rashford even more than we should purely because when he's there it forces Martial to stay out of his way, which also forces Martial to actually be in the middle of the pitch for more than 2 minutes of every game.
 

He'sRaldo

Full Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
2,379
Vs Chelsea, the only starters on our pitch who could have possibly scored from open play were Martial and (maybe) Bruno. Which kind of situation is that for a top team to find itself in? And it's not the first time, it happens game after game. Martial is lucky he's got Bruno now, as before it was just him.

Of course the attacker will struggle when there's barely any threat besides him. It just makes no sense. For example, the situation for Martial's header was a 3v6 in the box, with Dan James and Brandon Williams the only other 2 players in the box. Basically meaning that Martial was the only player realistically capable of threatening from that situation. It's just not feasible for us to be playing like this.
 

Majima

Full Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
3,649
Location
Kami's Lookout
I was going to ask if it means that we should expect him to develop faster or understand that we signed a player that was at the very beginning of his professional career? The problem with development is that it also depends a lot on the environment, either way there is a case to go in both directions consider that we aren't the place for him in the future or consider that he is only a 24 years old player.
Martial went from the focal point of the team, top goalscorer with 2600 mins as a 18/19 year old under LVG in 15/16, to averaging ~1000 mins less, a bit part player, shunted out on the wing under Mourinho for the past 3 years. 3 years is huge. I don't care who they are, that is going to significantly affect any young player's development. It's not like he has been a key player throughout his time here.

This is the first year since, he has again, become a focal point of the team. He's already surpassed his PL minutes for the whole of last season, (1638 vs 1623). There has been clear improvement in his stats from last season (9G+3A in 20 PL games vs 10G+3A in PL 27 games).

I don't know where the stereotype of him being stupid comes from? When next to top talent, he has never had a problem being on the same wave-length. Anyone watching our matches can see, he has been the one constant, providing the clever movement and linking the attack together, for the rest of the attack to thrive.

Also, he is only 24. Your list of top strikers that highlighted where they were at the same age is true. People need to have patience.
 
Last edited:

gerdm07

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2011
Messages
1,711
This is fantasy but imagine Haaland here and Rashford healthy. Martial would become a sub in PL matches and a starter against teams like Brugge. At some point he has to realize he needs to up his game or acquisitions will see him on the bench and, sooner or later, off to a mid-level club in France. Not to mention Greenwood who looks to be a much better striker in the future than Martial is or will be.
 

RUCK4444

Full Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
5,116
Location
FIFA Headquarters
When, for instance, was the last time Martial truly terrorised an opponent? The last game in which he really knotted someone up and ran them ragged?

If you gave all the top teams a choice...whom do you think they would pick between Martial and Rashford?
I honestly cannot remember a single game, I may have forgotten so correct me if I'm wrong, where Martial has run an opponent ragged for 90 mins. Genuinely struggling to remember it ever happening.

It's because he doesn't run at the opposition anywhere near enough. He's too busy drifting inside, dropping deep, pissing about, jogging.
 

gerdm07

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2011
Messages
1,711
Martial went from the focal point of the team, top goalscorer with 2600 mins as a 18/19 year old under LVG in 15/16, to averaging ~1000 mins less, a bit part player, shunted out on the wing under Mourinho for the past 3 years. 3 years is huge. I don't care who they are, that is going to significantly affect any young player's development. It's not like he has been a key player throughout his time here.

This is the first year since, he has again, become a focal point of the team. He's already surpassed his PL minutes for the whole of last season, (1638 vs 1623). There has been clear improvement in his stats from last season (9G+3A in 20 PL games vs 10G+3A in PL 27 games).

I don't know where the stereotype of him being stupid comes from? When next to top talent, he has never had a problem being on the same wave-length. Anyone watching our matches can see, he has been the one constant, providing the clever movement and linking the attack together, for the rest of the attack to thrive.

Also, he is only 24. Your list of top strikers that highlighted where they were at the same age is true. People need to have patience.
I think he is a rather stupid player. His decision making can be really poor and his instincts in the box are very sub-par. If Martial's game improves with Bruno the link then that will be something. If not, I'm ready to give up on him and move on.

Bold part: Really? You really think he has been a good link for our attack? This is not what I see at all.
 

Ish

Lights on for Luke
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
26,196
Location
Where fans' expectations are too high
Agree with those who say that they need each other though; both are clearly better when the other one is playing.
Yeah our fan base is really weird. I’m not on any other forums so maybe it’s a football supporter thing - but a lot of the time our fans think that they have to shit on the one when they’re complimenting the other. Or vice versa.

It happened with Herrera/Fellaini quite often and probably a ton of other examples over the years.
 

Raven

Full Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
3,742
Location
Ireland
Oh and there is almost no comparison between Rashford and Martial.

The only comparison you can make is their attitude and determination to influence the game. Rashford has bags of it and Martial has two flashes of it per game (tops.)

Compare Martial to Sterling, Mane, Salah, Son, even Zaha or Traore - whatever top forward you like and the difference is night and day and it's almost entirely down to a lack of desire imo. Yes the supply has been poor but you can still influence the game, make the opposition think, run, press, influence the game & make your presence known ffs!

If I were Ole's coach I would be screaming that last sentence into his timid little face every time he arrived at training and every time he left. I would spray paint it across his car, across the changing room and tattoo it onto his forearm so he can read it when he forgets what you've told him within the next 30 seconds.
Do you honestly think Zaha and Traore are better than Martial? I also have to ask why you're comparing him to wide players?
 

Van Piorsing

Lost his light sabre
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
19,385
Location
Polska
When LvG signed him and he banged that Thierry Henry goal vs Pool he was our main man to break any defense.

He can still be relevant and as more quality players will join, they'll create healthy rivalry that will get the best of Tony.
 

Raven

Full Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
3,742
Location
Ireland
somebody go watch Odsonne Edouard from Celtic. Proper number 9 we should get in the summer. Biggest reason we have struggled all these years is we haven't had a proper number 9 since RVP left. Martial is a bench impact player.
So wrong it's painful.
 

Bebestation

Full Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
3,543
Number 9's should outscore the wide players personally unless they bring something else major to the table. it is clear though that they need each other.
What rubbish is this.

Poulsen for Leipzeig takes such a critical role for giving Werner a slightly wider forwards role to finish much like Rashford has been doing.

Liverpool don't have bloody wingers either - they have forwards played by a false 9 & if you look at the athletic Ole used Martial in the exact same way - Rashford as a wide forward, Greenwood & James on the other side & Martial as a False 9.

Right now we are not seeing that because there isn't a single forward for him to link up with.
 

Alabaster Codify7

New Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
6,553
Location
Wales
Hahaha, absolutely No. Just No. Or maybe I'm wrong and he is, but that would be a huge hint as to why we are so shit nowadays.
 

Stacks

Full Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2015
Messages
7,762
Location
Between a rock and Gibraltar
The best performing teams these days; have their wide men as the top scorers though. But for Martial to have similar stats to our main threat is more than adequate at this point.
Messi, Salah and that's it.

Suarez and Benzema have most goals outside of Messi in La Liga.

Vardy and Aguero top scorers in EPL. followed by Ings, Aubemeyang. Salah is after him.

Immobile top scorer in Serie A followed by Ronaldo and Lukaku

Ben Yedder
top scorer in ligue 1, followed by Mbappe (who has been playing CF) and Neymar.

Lewandowski
top scorer in Bundesliga, then Werner and Sancho (soon to be Haarland)

Messi and Ronaldo changed the opinion of the wide player and blurred the lines completely.


Should Number 9's be expected to provide for themselves? What do you have to say about the stat that Pogba is still No.1 in though-balls, and he he hasn't played since September, missing 26 matches?
I say its embarrassing.

It depends entirely on the system and the player's profiles. Rashford is also not a traditional wide player, he almost exclusively plays in the inside left channel and his movements are designed to end in the traditional striker area. He is supposed to score as much as any starting striker, what he isn't supposed to do is create as much as a traditional wide player or stretch the field.
I disagree. He tried to play Rashford number 9 and make him his main man so clearly the number 9 is expected to be "the guy" in Ole system. Everyone also complained about Martial been played at LWF and claimed he should be through the middle because of his finishing etc
 

tjb

Full Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
1,674
Real on Benzema
Barca on Messi and Suarez
Atleti on Morata
Could be said for pretty much everyone in the squad, but who are these attainable CFs out there that are a guaranteed upgrade on Martial?

Pretty much all the big money CF transfers of the last few years or even players deemed to be of the highest potential have flopped or tailed off. Lukaku, Morata, Jovic, Lacazette, Griezmann, Belloti, Piatek etc. etc. Let's see who some of Europe's big clubs are playing at CF and relying upon...

Juve on Ronaldo
Real on Benzema
Barca on Messi and Suarez
Atleti on Morata
City on Aguero
Liverpool on Firmino
Milan on Ibra
Inter on Lukaku
Chelsea on Abraham
Tottehnam on Kane
Arsenal on Auba
Bayern on Lewandoski
PSG on Icardi (previously Cavani)
Monaco on Ben Yedder

The top scorer in our league is Vardy (age 33), in Italy it's Immobile (30) followed by Ronaldo (35), in Germany Lewandoski (31), in Spain it's Messi (32) followed by Benzema (32) and in France it's Ben Yedder (30 in the summer). The pattern that I see is that so-called big clubs clubs are increasingly relying on tried and tested veteran players in their 30s or persevering with players that have come through their ranks and have done well enough. There is a real lack of top talent at CF and many false hopes. I wouldn't be surprised at all if a big club takes a punt on Dembele in the summer and he ends up flopping under the weight of expectation.

Our forward line of Martial, Rashford and Greenwood is the youngest in the league and probably the youngest of all the top teams in Europe. And they are kind of delivering the goods, when you consider the lack of service from midfield. Given the real lack of quality alternatives I reckon they're worth persevering with. I think we have a grass is greener on the other side mentality when we compare our CF players with potential starlets especially those from other leagues.
You have a really good point here. There aren't any strikers that I would ideally go for in the current market. I would still try and bring in Jovic from Madrid as I think he has a lot to give if given the chance. For the most part, this really is a strange time for strikers. Maybe giving Martial/Greenwood or Rashford time might actually be the real alternative. Then again, look at Haaland. Truth is, on a personal level, I would sign a guy like raul jimanez at 29 and play him there for 2 to 3 seasons until Greenwood is ready to be our no.9
 

tjb

Full Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
1,674
When LvG signed him and he banged that Thierry Henry goal vs Pool he was our main man to break any defense.

He can still be relevant and as more quality players will join, they'll create healthy rivalry that will get the best of Tony.
I don't actually think he was that good even in that season. It's like Januzaj two years before that. He was playing the best out of a really bad bunch. For me, that 2016 team is still the worst team we have had since the 70s.
 

Stacks

Full Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2015
Messages
7,762
Location
Between a rock and Gibraltar
What rubbish is this.

Poulsen for Leipzeig takes such a critical role for giving Werner a slightly wider forwards role to finish much like Rashford has been doing.

Liverpool don't have bloody wingers either - they have forwards played by a false 9 & if you look at the athletic Ole used Martial in the exact same way - Rashford as a wide forward, Greenwood & James on the other side & Martial as a False 9.

Right now we are not seeing that because there isn't a single forward for him to link up with.
Messi, Salah and that's it.

Suarez and Benzema have most goals outside of Messi in La Liga.

Vardy and Aguero top scorers in EPL. followed by Ings, Aubemeyang. Salah is after him.

Immobile top scorer in Serie A followed by Ronaldo and Lukaku

Ben Yedder
top scorer in ligue 1, followed by Mbappe (who has been playing CF) and Neymar.

Lewandowski
top scorer in Bundesliga, then Werner and Sancho (soon to be Haarland)

Messi and Ronaldo changed the opinion of the wide player and blurred the lines completely.
 

Van Piorsing

Lost his light sabre
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
19,385
Location
Polska
I don't actually think he was that good even in that season. It's like Januzaj two years before that. He was playing the best out of a really bad bunch. For me, that 2016 team is still the worst team we have had since the 70s.
He lived through times of Januzaj, Memphis and Di Maria - players that failed almost epically, but he made it through because he was simply the right player for us at that time. The only problem he had was his ex, to be honest.

I think he could remain as United player but shouldn't at any means block the deals of strikers and wingers incoming. When he'll have way better players around him it will be easier to judge if he can stay or go. So far I admit it looks not that peachy for him and consistency is a problem of pretty much more than 75% of our squad.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
46,314
Location
France
I disagree. He tried to play Rashford number 9 and make him his main man so clearly the number 9 is expected to be "the guy" in Ole system. Everyone also complained about Martial been played at LWF and claimed he should be through the middle because of his finishing etc
How does that support your point, he simply put them in positions that suit their qualities, it wasn't about who is going to score more goals individually but how we are going to score more goals collectively. And for all the doubts that I may have when it comes to Ole, his decision to switch their positions has led to both of them being a lot more productive than last season.
 

He'sRaldo

Full Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
2,379
Though I don't really agree with the conclusion of this thread, it's premise is quite important.

When our only striker Martial was out, we struggled for goals. As soon as he came back, we got a lot better, hence the creation of this thread. Now that Rashford, our only decent winger is out, we are struggling. I'm sure once he comes back we'll improve, and then maybe another thread might be created for him.

And we can extend it even further. Let's say Pogba comes back to replace the worst out of Matic, Pereira, Lingard, etc. Then our midfield play improves and then we can create a Pogba thread. Let's say we finally get a RW on the level of our two other attackers. All of a sudden our attack is looking much better, and we might see another thread outlining his importance. Ditto for our DM and, until very recently, AM positions.

All this to say that we don't have a complete team. Having to play youth LB Brandon Williams and recent Championship acquisition Dan James on the wings against Chelsea isn't good enough for us. Having to play either Jesse Lingard or Andreas Pereira to supply our forwards for most of the season isn't good enough for us. Having to rely on players like Mata and Matic, even though they have performed as well as they can, is just not good enough.

The more we replace these sorts of players in our team, the more we'll see improvements and then hopefully "most important player" threads. Fred has been a good start. Hopefully we can address the RW issue that we've ignored for a few years now, and build on that.
 

jackal&hyde

Full Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
2,181
It's his first season to play as the number 9 since he was 19 or 20. For the last 3 he's been moved all over the place and even on the bench for Sanchez :houllier: . Give him a bit of time, he's on course to have his best ever scoring season for the club and we were not exactly blessed with creativity. He's going to be a 20+goals a season striker (without pens), i have no doubt about it.
 

James Ward

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
336
Hes decent like but no where near the likes of Salah, Mane, Aguero, Sterling, etc.

He seems to sulk a lot, is lazy and there is a reason why France don't pick him.

Simple fact is he is not good enough to be our main striker and not good enough to start long term for the club.

Hopefully now in the summer with a new Striker and right winger we can kick on as our forward line is below par.

Handy squad player to have though. I wouldn't get rid of him.


It's his first season to play as the number 9 since he was 19 or 20. For the last 3 he's been moved all over the place and even on the bench for Sanchez :houllier: . Give him a bit of time, he's on course to have his best ever scoring season for the club and we were not exactly blessed with creativity. He's going to be a 20+goals a season striker (without pens), i have no doubt about it.
How much more time, two or three seasons? He is not a proper striker.
 

EwanI Ted

Full Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2018
Messages
1,755
I no longer expect all that much from Martial to be honest. We're getting three or four good moments a game tops out of him at the mo. That's sometimes enough to get a goal, other times it might be a nice move. But his inconsistent hold up play and half hearted press gives us problems for the other 85 minutes a game when he isn't doing something good.
 

Nou_Camp99

Full Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
5,609
I'd love to see this new 352 with Rashford up top alongside him over James. With Bruno now in there it could work. Hopefully Rashford will be back before end of March.
 

Bebestation

Full Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
3,543
I don't understand.

Why do people think that when we play

Rashford - Martial - Greenwood

That Rashford & Greenwood are wingers trying to set up Martial rather than Martial trying to set up Rashford & Greenwood :eek:

Is it really the shirt number? Really?

Ole even played Lukaku out wide on the left - you can see he wants a left footed goal scoring attacker on the left.

Our problem this season has been that Greenwood hasn't been ready & we have used James who can't cut in for shit with his right foot on the right hand side & plays like a traditional winger instead & had gone to cr*p since October.

For me - that attack is good enough as a Plan but when Rashford & Greenwood are not there then Martial is not good enough to be our central striker because he simply isn't a central striker, he is a deep lying support striker who helps the forwards around him.

So get another forward for when that tactic is problematic due to injuries or needs to be changed.

Selling him because he isn't scoring goals off the chances created by Mata & James is just a poor understanding of how he plays football & the players he needs to get the best out of him - players Rashford & Greenwood can use to get the good results out of them.

Chill with the hate.

Not like it will.

I wish he never took the number 9 shirt, some fans now locate it to a position & an expectation of a type of player - much like the sh*t associated with the number 7 shirt.
 
Last edited:

tjb

Full Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
1,674
He lived through times of Januzaj, Memphis and Di Maria - players that failed almost epically, but he made it through because he was simply the right player for us at that time. The only problem he had was his ex, to be honest.

I think he could remain as United player but shouldn't at any means block the deals of strikers and wingers incoming. When he'll have way better players around him it will be easier to judge if he can stay or go. So far I admit it looks not that peachy for him and consistency is a problem of pretty much more than 75% of our squad.
I would be fine with Martial, my problem is his salary and the potential income we could get from selling him. He has a lot of technical skills, but he really doesn't know how to use it in my opinion. For example in the Chelsea game, he did a good job of getting himself in a situation to shoot, but hit wide off the mark because he is sooo uncomfortable shooting with his left and doesn't know how to shift effectively to his favored right foot. Martial is good at dribbling, but does not make the right runs to make those bursts effective. He is good at one twos in tight spaces, yet lacks the vision and passing technique to make the final pass. In addition to this and because of this, it has really been difficult to find a role for him in the team. I would love for him to at least try and see how he would look on the right flank and potentially save us money, but I know he won't even consider this option. He isn't creative enough to be a false 9, does not have the off the ball movement to be a poacher and has limited holding up ability for a target man/complete forward. Every striker needs needs to be decent at all of those things and really good at one. On the flanks, his unwillingness to track back makes him somewhat of a liability. In addition to this, he never attempts to get to the byline, he is so one footed that it stops him from providing the team with suitable width. He also lacks vision and passing technique so cannot be di maria or ribery where he creates from deep on the wing. As an inside forward, he does not make the runs that rashford and sterling make. When you combine all of these factors, it makes him a difficult fit for any team.
 

MadMike

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
9,022
Location
London
You have a really good point here. There aren't any strikers that I would ideally go for in the current market. I would still try and bring in Jovic from Madrid as I think he has a lot to give if given the chance. For the most part, this really is a strange time for strikers. Maybe giving Martial/Greenwood or Rashford time might actually be the real alternative. Then again, look at Haaland. Truth is, on a personal level, I would sign a guy like raul jimanez at 29 and play him there for 2 to 3 seasons until Greenwood is ready to be our no.9
Look at Haaland how? No doubt he is doing extremely well at Bundesliga, but:
a) the sample is very small (handful of games there) and
b) that league is famous/notorious for very open football that suits the forwards

Do you think he'd be getting minutes, nevermind smashing it, in a more difficult environment? We were saying similar stuff for Jovic last summer, now the guy can't get a game for Real Madrid. We were saying how Joao Felix is out of this world and a bargain at £100m and now he has 2 goals in 17 games in La Liga, averaging a goal every 631 minutes, so they play Morata instead.

And don't get me wrong these players could well become top players in the future, and probably will. But I swear people expect just way too much from talented young players at top teams. It's so rare for an <25 player to be smashing it at top level at CF.

While we have Rashford (22) and Martial (24) averaging 1 in 2 or better in the toughest of leagues, with that dross of a midfield behind them, and we're still having a moan every. fecking. week and believe that any 20yo kid that's smashing it elsewhere could come here and do better.
 

fps

Full Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
4,527
I really don't get how Martial's brain works. When he has stayed in the centre of the pitch this season, he has found it quite easy to score goals. He gets enough goals in that position to actually justify being played there.

Yet he insists on spending 90% of games just pratting aimlessly around on the left wing...and it is literally just aimless pratting around. He just goes and stands there by default. Doesn't take on his man, or run in behind, or play anyone else in behind. Just arses around there.

The Chelsea game, he came into the box, once, scored a really good striker's goal...so you think he'd think "ahh that worked, I'll do it more often"...he spent the ENTIRE rest of the game pratting around on the left wing. He hasn't scored a single goal from the left all season. I mean if he was a threat from there or at least was going over there to take players on or create space for himself, I'd get it. ALL of his goals this season though, have come when he's been in the middle...if he was there all or even most of the time he'd be scoring even more.

We're missing Rashford even more than we should purely because when he's there it forces Martial to stay out of his way, which also forces Martial to actually be in the middle of the pitch for more than 2 minutes of every game.
That’s what happens when your development is horrifically stunted by being shunted out on the left wing by a manager who doesn’t get you.
 

Van Piorsing

Lost his light sabre
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
19,385
Location
Polska
I would be fine with Martial, my problem is his salary and the potential income we could get from selling him. He has a lot of technical skills, but he really doesn't know how to use it in my opinion. For example in the Chelsea game, he did a good job of getting himself in a situation to shoot, but hit wide off the mark because he is sooo uncomfortable shooting with his left and doesn't know how to shift effectively to his favored right foot. Martial is good at dribbling, but does not make the right runs to make those bursts effective. He is good at one twos in tight spaces, yet lacks the vision and passing technique to make the final pass. In addition to this and because of this, it has really been difficult to find a role for him in the team. I would love for him to at least try and see how he would look on the right flank and potentially save us money, but I know he won't even consider this option. He isn't creative enough to be a false 9, does not have the off the ball movement to be a poacher and has limited holding up ability for a target man/complete forward. Every striker needs needs to be decent at all of those things and really good at one. On the flanks, his unwillingness to track back makes him somewhat of a liability. In addition to this, he never attempts to get to the byline, he is so one footed that it stops him from providing the team with suitable width. He also lacks vision and passing technique so cannot be di maria or ribery where he creates from deep on the wing. As an inside forward, he does not make the runs that rashford and sterling make. When you combine all of these factors, it makes him a difficult fit for any team.
It's probably enough basis to get rid and I would have absolutely not one problem transfer listing him, if not one obstacle: We have a few, maybe even more players in selling order that needs to go, right now, in this moment, no discussion and it's definitely not Paul Pogba.

If we'll clear out the squad of jokers and get player like Jadon Sancho then be my guest and show Martial the door, but I still think he could up his game with more flashy players around him. Marcus Rashford is a living proof of that and with him injured we need to rely on Tony for a few months more.

I think we were actually very close to decsion to let go of Martial if only Haland wanted Premier League move this year. At this time let's have hopes for Greenwood and Ighalo, perhaps it will be a pleasant surprise.

One problem to add is that Tony is 24 year old and at this age we can clearly demand somekind of consistency. What a time to prove it.