Martial is our most important player

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Santoryo

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Surprised that there are a few who think he was poor in the first half yesterday. I don’t recall thinking that. From recollection, I think I told a mate that the few touches he had was positive but he hasn’t been in the game much - as a result of us not really creating much chances, or controlling the match, after going 2 nil up. And even then, he got an assist.

Isn’t there a difference between playing poorly as a CF and not just seeing enough of the ball? I guess a better way I would put it, was that he needed to/we needed to involve him in the game more. That doesn’t necessarily equate to poor. Not as a CF anyway.

I just tried to look at his stats for the match but couldn’t find a first and second half breakdown.
Exactly this. People in the match day thread were busy conflating the 2. Being poor simply means he'd played poorly through his own fault. That first half performance from Martial was a case of him not seeing enough of the ball because the midfield wasn't doing enough.

Those saying he wasn't making himself available are having a laugh. Perreira being poor meant that he failed to find or link up with Martial at any time. Martial himself came short, try to make runs and open up space but the ball simply wasn't coming, again expected given how poor Perreira was.

Second half Fred stepped up several notches and Martial started finally enjoying and seeing the ball then behold he can actually make things happen when on the ball, especially close to the box.

Problem with most posters on these boards they just don't understand these things and as soon as they see Martial not involved as much they automatically assume that he's been poor when a deeper look would show how starved he was from the midfield.
 

Judas

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Martial will obviously look better with quality playing with him, actual intelligent linkup play. He'll never get that from Andreas.

Fred showed how simple it can be to get Martial involved with his through balls. Why we don't see more of those I don't know.
 

Ish

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@Santoryo yeah I actually just thought it was a case of him not seeing enough of the ball - and not because he wasn’t making himself available or not dropping deep, but because we generally struggled a bit in the build up after going 2 up so early.
 

Andersonson

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Martial will obviously look better with quality playing with him, actual intelligent linkup play. He'll never get that from Andreas.

Fred showed how simple it can be to get Martial involved with his through balls. Why we don't see more of those I don't know.
Martial will obviously look better with quality playing with him, actual intelligent linkup play. He'll never get that from Andreas.

Fred showed how simple it can be to get Martial involved with his through balls. Why we don't see more of those I don't know.
Every player will look better with quality around them....

Ole has said he wants his strikers in scoring positions more often, that could mean you're less involved in the build up.

But for me, Martial isnt a poacher type of striker, he should be more involved
 

Judas

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I think Martial has better poacher instincts than Rashford does, who seems to have lost that bit of his game a tad, probably from playing a variety of positions.
 

andy dufresne

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Look lads,lets have a bit of realism added here to the debate.Both Rashford and indeed, Martial are vital to us at the present time because,sadly,we do not have a lot of other options.If Martial could be more consistent and play as though he couldn't care less at times then I feel sure we could say he is our most important player and for the sake of argument,I think it is possibly a toss up between both him and Rashford with Pogba no longer an option as far as I am concerned(as he clearly does not want to be at United any longer or have a burning desire to play for the club).In the years to come when hopefully we will be at the top of the league once more and it will happen as football is very much a cyclical game,we will look back at Martial and no doubt reach the opinion that he was at times a good player but no more no less.I would much sooner have,for example,Dwight Yorke over him any day of the week and twice on weekends.
 

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Exactly this. People in the match day thread were busy conflating the 2. Being poor simply means he'd played poorly through his own fault. That first half performance from Martial was a case of him not seeing enough of the ball because the midfield wasn't doing enough.

Those saying he wasn't making himself available are having a laugh. Perreira being poor meant that he failed to find or link up with Martial at any time. Martial himself came short, try to make runs and open up space but the ball simply wasn't coming, again expected given how poor Perreira was.

Second half Fred stepped up several notches and Martial started finally enjoying and seeing the ball then behold he can actually make things happen when on the ball, especially close to the box.

Problem with most posters on these boards they just don't understand these things and as soon as they see Martial not involved as much they automatically assume that he's been poor when a deeper look would show how starved he was from the midfield.

I may have missed it but haven’t noticed many saying Martial was poor but rather could’ve done a lot more to get involved. His lack of movement has often been a problem as has been regularly pointed out over his time here. He often stands around waiting for the ball to arrive at his feet. Around the time of his statue impression during the pre-match warm up was a time he was simply not putting the effort in and this was patently obvious. He has clearly been guilty of waiting for things to happen rather than making them happen, which every player in the shirt should be doing. I think most of us “understand these things” perfectly well but just happen to to have another opinion. Pereira and others perhaps could be a bit more adventurous but when forward’s are continually standing still behind their marker it is difficult to pick them out with a pass, just as playing a through ball is a fruitless exercise if the forward stands stock still, staring at the ball. Martial has more than occasionally been guilty of this during his time as a United player. Hopefully, with the team looking increasingly more motivated, some of it will rub off on him and we’ll see the player we know he can be.
 

Santoryo

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I may have missed it but haven’t noticed many saying Martial was poor but rather could’ve done a lot more to get involved. His lack of movement has often been a problem as has been regularly pointed out over his time here. He often stands around waiting for the ball to arrive at his feet. Around the time of his statue impression during the pre-match warm up was a time he was simply not putting the effort in and this was patently obvious. He has clearly been guilty of waiting for things to happen rather than making them happen, which every player in the shirt should be doing. I think most of us “understand these things” perfectly well but just happen to to have another opinion. Pereira and others perhaps could be a bit more adventurous but when forward’s are continually standing still behind their marker it is difficult to pick them out with a pass, just as playing a through ball is a fruitless exercise if the forward stands stock still, staring at the ball. Martial has more than occasionally been guilty of this during his time as a United player. Hopefully, with the team looking increasingly more motivated, some of it will rub off on him and we’ll see the player we know he can be.
Accusations about Martial's poor movements are only true when he plays as a winger or inside forward. That is because from the wing Martial doesn't run the chanels nor exploit the space behind the fullback when given the chance. He'd always opt for ball to fit and not bother attempting to make runs in behind. So if people are accusing him of poor movements we he's playing on the wing then they have a case, thought while Martial himself is to blame, to his defense that's not his natural position and his lack of movements there is one of the things that shows why.

However Martial cannot be accused of poor movements when he's played as a center forward, especially this season(which is basically the only season he's finally started to play there regularly).

In that first half alone Martial come short, pulled wide and attempted some runs in behinds and was never found and this is because of our poor Perreira was. The first goal is an indictment of this fact. We're breaking, Perreira is on the ball with both Martial and James on either side yet his lack of spacial awareness was so bad that he couldn't see where the 2 where and instead started doing some stupid step overs which ked to dispossession. That play right there already set the tone of how things would go on. Services or link ups coming from Perreira was already non existent which means Martial as the CF is in deep shit because his number 10 is beyond average and can't find him.

Throughout the first half that what Martial had to deal with, didn't matter if he tried to come short, gone wide or attempted a run, Perreira was never going to find him. It's either he couldn't control the ball and be fast into his reaction to turn and bring the ball to Martial and other forward or in those rare cases he managed to trap the ball and actual turned(this only happened when he had acres of spaces and ample time), he'd choose to shoot on sight regardless of distance without even checking around him if other players are open for a quick pass and in better positions.

Saying Martial wasn't trying to make himself available in that first half and hiding(he's not even the type of player to hide from the ball, in fact he prefer to be on it as much as possible) is factually not true.
 

Raven

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I also got laughed out the door when I suggested his movement wasn't 'non-existent' as some posters liked to say. I even posted videos of him making runs in behind and scoring multiple times but was told I wouldn't be taken seriously. Yesterday he once again demonstrated how intelligent he can be with his movement.

I can't work out why, but certain fans just seem to have a weird agenda against him.
Yeah, I always maintained he had the right movement for a CF. People were banging on about academic performance, his relationship with women and his number of kids. Mental carry on.
 

Buster15

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Martial had a good second half. But he's still a very inconsistent player, who is frustrating as feck to watch often. I want it to click for him, but people are far too quick to laugh and mock people with the opposite opinion on here.
Perfectly true. Before we should make a judgement, let's wait for him to play consistently well over a good number of games. Something he has yet to do.
 

Steven-UK

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Bit rich to claim they aren't consistent and haven't delivered when it matters and James has. For me, they're still both much more important than James. As is Pogba. The Welsh kid is doing well but some are going overboard. They're still more likely to be top players than him. You appear to suggest that James is a 'proper winger' and Rashford/Martial don't meet his standard which is complete rubbish.
Give over, James plays for the shirt like his life depends on it. When have you ever seen Pogba do that? I mean ever? I'd rather see Pogba go than James.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Give over, James plays for the shirt like his life depends on it. When have you ever seen Pogba do that? I mean ever? I'd rather see Pogba go than James.
Messi in this team at his age wouldn't have ran like a maniac either, but I think he'd be more important than James and Mctominay? Or Firmino and pretty much any football on planet earth?

Effort is important but so is skill. Pogba is our best outfield player. He and Martial in particular are hugely influential for me. Also, every player should be appreciated for their qualities. Hazard and Pogba give you fantastic qualities on the ball. Park, James, Firmino give you a bit of everything. Why is only one of the two important?

As for who leaves, if Pogba is desperate to leave, I'd agree on selling him. May aid us in strengthening the midfield. Ideally of course I'd keep him as he is a brilliant footballer. But I'm not going to pretend running is everything, and technical brilliance is nothing.
 

NinjaZombie

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I think Martial has better poacher instincts than Rashford does, who seems to have lost that bit of his game a tad, probably from playing a variety of positions.
Both of them play in the same two positions though.
 

Decomposing In Paris

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Look lads,lets have a bit of realism added here to the debate.Both Rashford and indeed, Martial are vital to us at the present time because,sadly,we do not have a lot of other options.If Martial could be more consistent and play as though he couldn't care less at times then I feel sure we could say he is our most important player and for the sake of argument,I think it is possibly a toss up between both him and Rashford with Pogba no longer an option as far as I am concerned(as he clearly does not want to be at United any longer or have a burning desire to play for the club).In the years to come when hopefully we will be at the top of the league once more and it will happen as football is very much a cyclical game,we will look back at Martial and no doubt reach the opinion that he was at times a good player but no more no less.I would much sooner have,for example,Dwight Yorke over him any day of the week and twice on weekends.
The same Dwight Yorke who moved here about to turn 27 having scored 73 goals in 9 years at Villa? I love Dwight, but he was only a consistently excellent player for a handful of seasons. I had my doubts about Martial at CF, but he's been really good this season. He has a goal or an assist every 89 minutes in a struggling team. Stats are more important for a forward than they are for a midfielder. We will never know how a 24 year old Dwight Yorke would do in this team, but I do know that Martial started the season well, our team looked awful when he got injured, and picked up again on his return.
 

Samid

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Martial's wife describes the suffering he endured with Mourinho

Things weren't great for Anthony Martial under Jose Mourinho at Manchester United.

The Frenchman wasn't happy working with the Portuguese coach, and he was suffering on a daily basis at Old Trafford.

"During our first two years together in Manchester it was difficult because Jose Mourinho didn't count on him," Melanie Da Cruz, Martial's wife, told L'Equipe.

"Anthony goes silent in these situations.

"We were watching our man fall. I was having such a bad time that I stopped going to certain events to avoid being around the coach."

A lot of players' partners opt to voice displeasure with coaches and clubs on social media nowadays, but Melanie decided not to.

"Anthony didn't want me to," she said.

"But when he played and scored, my pride wanted me to scream."
If the toxic one had got what he wanted our front three right now would have been Perisic-Lukaku-Alexis with Martial sold for peanuts and Rashy on his way out too.
 

CM10

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Not surprising really, Mourinho mismanaged Martial as he did with many others. Even if we aren't back to our best yet we can be thankful that we now have a striker who knows how to control a football.
 

Adisa

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The irony is that Martial's goals kept the coach alive for a while.
 

BringNaniBack

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Not surprising really, Mourinho mismanaged Martial as he did with many others. Even if we aren't back to our best yet we can be thankful that we now have a striker who knows how to control a football.
Mourinho destroyed Martial for 12 months, luckily he was young enough to recover his form. Mourinho also destroyed Mikhitaryan and it doesn't look like he'll ever recover.
 

Jeffthered

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Please stay fit. Incredible talent.
It's amazing how satisfied some of us fans are with average performance. Martial has done nothing, nothing fantastic or outstanding this season. He hasn't improved.

And now he is an 'incredible talent'.

Madness.
 

Yagami

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It's amazing how satisfied some of us fans are with average performance. Martial has done nothing, nothing fantastic or outstanding this season. He hasn't improved.

And now he is an 'incredible talent'.

Madness.
It's a shame some can't appreciate one of the few genuinely talented players we have.
 

Jeffthered

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It's a shame some can't appreciate one of the few genuinely talented players we have.
Anthony Martial has had four seasons at United. I base my opinion on his performances.

He is an average forward. Consistently average. His first season was great. Since then he is consistently inconsistent.

How is that a player with 'talent'?

A few good goals and a few good performances every season does not equate to a very good player. It equates to an average player.

Martial, Lingard, Shaw, Fred... these are average players. Not top players. If you are satisfied with that quality at OT then that's up to you. I want us to do better.
 

fps

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Anthony Martial has had four seasons at United. I base my opinion on his performances.

He is an average forward. Consistently average. His first season was great. Since then he is consistently inconsistent.

How is that a player with 'talent'?

A few good goals and a few good performances every season does not equate to a very good player. It equates to an average player.

Martial, Lingard, Shaw, Fred... these are average players. Not top players. If you are satisfied with that quality at OT then that's up to you. I want us to do better.
Martial has been played out of position the past two seasons. When played as a centre forward he scores goals clinically, makes intelligent runs, and looks sharp pacey and dangerous, at 24 with his best years in front of him.
 

dogwithabone

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It's amazing how satisfied some of us fans are with average performance. Martial has done nothing, nothing fantastic or outstanding this season. He hasn't improved.

And now he is an 'incredible talent'.

Madness.

I tend to agree with you. Unless he can finally hit a level of proper consistency then his United career will forever more just yo-yo and opinion will remain divided. Rashford, although much improved this season, is inconsistent but he’s way more consistent than Martial and that tells you everything.
 

Manowar

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Why bother responding to Jeff, he’s just another Haram.
Martial is pretty consistent this season, scoring, assisting, building up plays, making runs... what else do you want from CF with Ole’s play style?

After his return from injury, we manage to up our attacking quality and quantity from a terrible draught spell. Let see after this season whether he can morph into what we hoped for and become the undisputed number 1 CF in the team.
 

Marcelinho87

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You can't expect our strikers to be consistent when the whole team behind them remains inconsistent, we don't and haven't had a settled midfield for far too long.

Martial is up there in terms of his goals per game ratio, one of the best I believe? He is incredibly talented but yes inconsistent.

The main issue with people on this forum is they themselves yo-yo between opinions. One week they claim he is class another they claim he is crap.

Can't we all agree he himself has the tools to be quality but needs to have the support around him, as do most players.
 

Jeffthered

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I tend to agree with you. Unless he can finally hit a level of proper consistency then his United career will forever more just yo-yo and opinion will remain divided. Rashford, although much improved this season, is inconsistent but he’s way more consistent than Martial and that tells you everything.
I agree. I have stated, throughout his time at United.. compare him (Martial) to Aguero, Vardy, Kane.. Even Mane, Salah.. ( not even No 9's...). Is he as effective as those players? Does he contribute as much? Work as hard? Lead the line? Inspire the team?

How many seasons does he need? Six.. Eight...?

Rashford seems to have raised his game this season, across all areas... Martial needs to do the same. It is no surprise that OGS was interested in Haaland. Perhaps consider those clubs who were not so interested in buying him. Ask yourself why that is.

This season defines Martial at Man United. Another average season, and that's it. He needs a big second half to this season. Not another average one.
 

Jeffthered

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You can't expect our strikers to be consistent when the whole team behind them remains inconsistent, we don't and haven't had a settled midfield for far too long.

Martial is up there in terms of his goals per game ratio, one of the best I believe? He is incredibly talented but yes inconsistent.

The main issue with people on this forum is they themselves yo-yo between opinions. One week they claim he is class another they claim he is crap.
Sorry, I just do not agree. He's 24. Not 17, 18.... How he plays is how he is... He isn't 'learning' anymore.
 

JPRouve

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Sorry, I just do not agree. He's 24. Not 17, 18.... How he plays is how he is... He isn't 'learning' anymore.
Most players learn after 24, it's a rarity when they don't.
 
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Martial is a good player, and is important to this team because it allows Rashford to play in his best position. However, if we had a top striker then Martial would be the one to go - I don’t think he’s consistent enough to be the main striker for Man Utd. Perhaps if he had some genuine competition he would raise his consistency.

We need another striker, as when he’s out of form or injured, our attack is poor - but it’s not Martial per se, just the fact of having a centre forward on the pitch that makes us function properly.
 

Greck

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I agree. I have stated, throughout his time at United.. compare him (Martial) to Aguero, Vardy, Kane.. Even Mane, Salah.. ( not even No 9's...). Is he as effective as those players? Does he contribute as much? Work as hard? Lead the line? Inspire the team?

How many seasons does he need? Six.. Eight...?

Rashford seems to have raised his game this season, across all areas... Martial needs to do the same. It is no surprise that OGS was interested in Haaland. Perhaps consider those clubs who were not so interested in buying him. Ask yourself why that is.

This season defines Martial at Man United. Another average season, and that's it. He needs a big second half to this season. Not another average one.
you're reaching a bit with the last paragraph. This has been a good season so far. He has produced when fit. Not great but far from needing 'a big second half' to redeem himself. If something better comes along we should go for that because Martial won't be world class. Still, chill with the exaggerations
 

Marcelinho87

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Sorry, I just do not agree. He's 24. Not 17, 18.... How he plays is how he is... He isn't 'learning' anymore.
Peak years are 28/29 there is plenty of room for learning and I never actually said he was.

How he plays is fine but as I said he needs the players around him consistently too which we don't have.
 

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if Martial had had a great coach for four years imaginecwheded he’d be. When he did have proper coach ( LVG) he was outstanding.
 

Yagami

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Anthony Martial has had four seasons at United. I base my opinion on his performances.

He is an average forward. Consistently average. His first season was great. Since then he is consistently inconsistent.

How is that a player with 'talent'?

A few good goals and a few good performances every season does not equate to a very good player. It equates to an average player.

Martial, Lingard, Shaw, Fred... these are average players. Not top players. If you are satisfied with that quality at OT then that's up to you. I want us to do better.
Yes, and in 3 of those seasons he's been handled terribly by Mourinho. It's no surprise that before Mourinho, and after, he's looked twice the player.

Martial hasn't had a few good games this season. He's consistently been one of our best players; even when he's not scored.

if Martial had had a great coach for four years imaginecwheded he’d be. When he did have proper coach ( LVG) he was outstanding.
Exactly. Mourinho wasted years of his development. If we had got Pep, and City had got Mourinho, Rashford and Martial would be on another level right now and Sterling would be half the player. People underestimate the importance of a great coach.
 

432JuanMata

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I’m kind of with the people that say he’s been average here. Yes he’s talented and I hope he fulfills that but he has been average since being here and while he has improved this season he needs to do more as he is 24 and while that is still young it’s the age where you perform or your not good enough. If we are to challenge in the next few years I think he’ll be upgraded.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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I agree. I have stated, throughout his time at United.. compare him (Martial) to Aguero, Vardy, Kane.. Even Mane, Salah.. ( not even No 9's...). Is he as effective as those players? Does he contribute as much? Work as hard? Lead the line? Inspire the team?

How many seasons does he need? Six.. Eight...?

Rashford seems to have raised his game this season, across all areas... Martial needs to do the same. It is no surprise that OGS was interested in Haaland. Perhaps consider those clubs who were not so interested in buying him. Ask yourself why that is.

This season defines Martial at Man United. Another average season, and that's it. He needs a big second half to this season. Not another average one.
All the players you’ve listed became the players they are, at an age older than Martial is now. None of them are younger.
 
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