Martial & Rashford's Potential

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Damien, Aug 11, 2019.

  1. Aug 11, 2019
    #1

    Damien Self-Aware RedCafe Database (and Admin) Staff

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    There has been a fair bit of discussion about the two, and with Lukaku sold and Sanchez, Sanchez, the spotlight is on the pair to score the bulk of the goals this season.

    They've had a good start against Chelsea, scoring three goals between the two. Is this the season where they need to stop being about 'potential' and deliver on the pitch, is there time for them to develop or is it just the case that we can't afford to wait for them to 'come good'?

    It's an interesting debate that @Rood, @Duafc and @Stobzilla had on the podcast (thread here)



    And they're currently the two top scoring players left at the club - Zlatan's stats were insane given the short amount of time he was fit for, basically all in one season.

  2. Aug 11, 2019
    #2

    VorZakone What would Kenny G do?

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    They're still both young and not in the typical prime years of a striker yet. Therefore, I don't think we can just throw away the 'potential' argument. I'm still of the opinion that a replacement for Lukaku should have been bought to share the goalscoring responsibility with Rashford and Martial.

    With that being said, they both should be capable of scoring at least 15+ goals in all competitions.
  3. Aug 11, 2019
    #3

    PowerOfDreams New Member

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    Always thought Marital was the better gifted of the two and hope he gets a long, regular run out up front. Rashford's mentality is cool as ice.
  4. Aug 11, 2019
    #4

    vidic blood & sand Full Member

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    Awwwwww they're so in love. Loads of potential indeed.
  5. Aug 11, 2019
    #5

    marktan Full Member

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    I think they'll do well if they continue making good runs with Pogba especially supplying them.

    One thing that currently stops them stepping up into the great class of forwards at other clubs e.g the Manes, Sterlings etc is that they struggle to beat a man consistently in the final third. Often they'll fumble with the ball or run into the defender. Being able to get past a man is crucial in the final third for stretching play and breaking down the top defences.
  6. Aug 11, 2019
    #6

    Ødegaard formerly MrEriksen Scout

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    Rashford needs to get better at decision-making (when to pass inside the box) and get his short-passing standard higher (he's a bit sloppy with them).
    Martial needs to be more aggressive both with and without the ball regardless of which team has it.

    I think both of them can improve on the things I see as the most important stuff.
  7. Aug 11, 2019
    #7

    Crashoutcassius Full Member

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    I think this season is make or break for Martial. If he doesn't find some consistency we can let him go and take a new approach. Glad Ole is finally going to show real faith and give him a proper run... if I was a betting man I'd say he will frustrate in certain games but get goals overall
  8. Aug 11, 2019
    #8

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    If they both stay fit then I'll be disappointed with 15goals each
  9. Aug 11, 2019
    #9

    iluvoursolskjær Full Member

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    Ole has provided the stage. It's not about potential anymore, it's their time :drool:
  10. Aug 11, 2019
    #10

    Random Task Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    They're devastating on the counter and any team naive enough to pile forward in numbers will come to learn that fact very quickly. The only trouble is how many teams will we come across this season willing to play to our strengths? Not many if we're honest.

    The issue I have with them is their ability to unlock a defence insistent on parking the bus. Time and again over the last few years we've struggled with these teams, more often than not because Rashford and Martial make the wrong decision in and around the box. They will have to improve in this area if we are to get anything from this season.
  11. Aug 11, 2019
    #11

    noodlehair "It's like..."

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    Said this last season but they would both get close to or over 20 goals if played consistently and in roles that don't diminish them. Martial has too much ability not to score goals and Rashford has both the ability and the mentality to go with it. People on here are far too impatient with Rashford in particular.

    Don't have any issue with them being the two main goal threats. It's what I wanted us to do this season. The issue is getting enough goals from elsewhere. Games where you need to break teams down who sit back is where you need more than the two consistent goal threats. Particularly if you don't have a 30+ goal a season player who will bail you out more often than not. There's a lot of pressure on the frigne attacking players and midfielders to chip in. Hopefully it works out because if it does we'll have a pretty good chance of a good season.
  12. Aug 11, 2019
    #12

    Santoryo ripping the reward

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    Contrary to what some believe on these boards, every team struggle breaking teams that sit in low amd compact blocks especially if they are well organized and well drilled. It's not an issue us alone face when it comes to top teams.
  13. Aug 11, 2019
    #13

    Amadaeus Pochettino's mother

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    Go back just a few months ago and I don’t think it is inaccurate to say that the majority of redcafe posters were saying that they are not capable of leading the line for United. I can’t recall the thread, but I had to bring up statistics that showcased they were and how much quality they had.

    I believe at the moment we have a weak link on the right and behind the striker. However, even with those weak link, these two are capable of performing well in a counter attacking system. Once we address those weak links(preferably with quality players similar to the likes of Sancho, Havertz) like we did with our defense, United would be on a level similar to City and Liverpool. However, I am not sure if the current counter attacking philosophy will get us to that level.

    Edit: did a brief search and found one of the thread where I predicted Rashford and Martial potential :). Obvious fans didn’t rate them. I expect that to change.

    https://www.redcafe.net/threads/a-top-quality-clinical-striker.447226/page-6#post-24165936
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  14. Aug 11, 2019
    #14

    11101 Full Member

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    Martial has a shot at the striker role. He has the knack of being in the right place to score and if he sorts out his runs and workrate he could be brilliant, but it's a big if. He's notoriously patchy and disinterested. If he doesn't nail the number 9 down this season with ~20 league goals I could see him being shipped out in the next couple of years.

    Rashford I'm not sure about. He's not got the instinct for the striker job but out wide he's not much more than a kick and run merchant. He's at the point where he needs to be settling in to one position but it's hard to say where.
  15. Aug 11, 2019
    #15

    Random Task Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    Sure, but the best teams/players generally find a way to unlock those defences. If Martial and Rashford ever hope to become world-class strikers, they will have to improve their decision-making skills considerably, plus add some guile to their locker. They can't rely on Pogba to provide them with an assist every time.
  16. Aug 11, 2019
    #16

    noodlehair "It's like..."

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    I think Rashford has imrpoved hugely even in the past 8 months in this regard. Play him up front all year and he gets 20+ goals easily. Even out wide he has the potential to get close. He'll lose the ball a lot and be frustrating, but in games whrre the opposition sit off he only has to get it right once or twice. The frustration in recent seasons is that we can never keep the ball out of our own net or get enough goals from outside of the front man to win these types of games consistently, and we also struggle to keep pressure on a team long enough for them to make mistakes. Lukaku and Zlatan for example both got close to 30 goals and would score in these types of games, but often we'd concede a daft goal or just be completely reliant on them to win the game, or would be constantly counter attacked.

    Martial needs to improve his decision making and more so his movement. HE'll get goals himself but he needs to do more to help the team create chances if he's going to be the front man. Today for example, he was rarely if ever running in behind, yet he was not showing for the ball either. When he did get the ball in or around the box there was too much standing still with it. On the plus side he was pretty good once we were in the attacking third and his goal was the type you need someone to score in the type of games you are talking about. HE also has barely played up front for a long time so will hopefully improve.

    What we need when we play teams who sit off is similar to what you see from Liverpool, where they press and effectively panic the opposition into mistakes, and then goal threat comes from more than one area. So even if you manage to nullify MArtial and Rashford the chances are over 90 minutes someone else will take advantage. Last couple of seasons we've barely been lively enough to apply pressure on a defensive team, never mind force chances.
  17. Aug 11, 2019
    #17

    Stacks Full Member

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    Rashford should study Aubemeyang. That's his template. The player he has the best chance of emulating. He'll never be R9 or a Thierry Henry but I reckon he is ahead of where Auba was in many element of his game at this age
  18. Aug 11, 2019
    #18

    Nr.7 New Member

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    Young players tend to be inconsistant and make mistakes.
    Listening to Rashford speak after the game (and on some other occasions) I have confidence he’ll turn that potential into performances. He has the right mentality, attitude and he handles pressure very well.

    Martial strikes me as a confidence player and those types of players tend to stay inconsistant.
  19. Aug 11, 2019
    #19

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    Still a make or break season for Martial, Rashford on the other hand I've never had any doubts over
  20. Aug 12, 2019
    #20

    TrustInOle New Member

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    Am i the only ones getting rooney and ronaldo vibes coming from these two, not in terms of ability but more the relationship and understanding of eachothers game? Their link up play, along with pogba, at times was lightning, and the fast box to box transitions we we such a joy to watch.
  21. Aug 12, 2019
    #21

    ChaddyP Full Member

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    Hope they emulate Rooney and Ronaldo when we sold Ruud. Really want them to come alive and be our "Aubameyang and Lacazette"
  22. Aug 12, 2019
    #22

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

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    Gonna be weird to say this and going against the grain but considering they scored 3 between them but I thought their link up play between themselves wasn’t good today. Too many bad decisions.
    Still first game and I’m not gonna complain about the result!
  23. Aug 12, 2019
    #23

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    there were a lot of bad decisions and they are not yet totally in sync but they are on the same wavelenght at least

    I for one was surprised to see Martial more central than Rashford, although they both moved around a lot and their average position is nearly the same - even in preseason we hadnt set up like that very much so will take some time for them to get used to it and Im confident they will
  24. Aug 12, 2019
    #24

    Irwin99 Full Member

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    I thought so too to be honest, though i predicted both would score today so i'm happy :D .

    I don't think either will ever be the complete centre forward but they have their own qualities which suit the counter attacking style.

    Oh and Rashford looks a pretty damn good penalty taker :devil:. Surprised Pogba didn't want it but i'm glad that it looks we have a new taker.
  25. Aug 12, 2019
    #25

    Sereques Full Member

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    Yawn! Give them a break. Ronaldo was worse than them at similar age. Dribbles into a crowd or aim a shot at Row Z. These two guys will unlock defense with their pace and dribbling.
  26. Aug 12, 2019
    #26

    Santoryo ripping the reward

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    Ronaldo already had a ballon d'or at Martial's age if I'm not mistaken
  27. Aug 12, 2019
    #27

    Sereques Full Member

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    That’s true. I thought he’s same age as Rashford.
  28. Aug 12, 2019
    #28

    KennyBurner New Member

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    he is 23 how exactly is that a make or break season? We usually give ultimatums when they player is 26 or so. This is also the season where he is uncontested for a starting spot. he will get more playing time and will also improve. He has also signed a new contract and we are short on strikers so even if he doesnt live up to expectations I'm sure the club would be willing to have him supporting whoever we buy next.
  29. Aug 12, 2019
    #29

    Tarrou Full Member

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    will be really interesting to see who gets the most minutes up front

    a few seasons back it worked quite well with them both competing for the left wing birth

    now they are both pushing to start up front, with the other having to 'make do' with the left wing, albeit with a bit of rotation thrown in

    Martial has really upped his work-rate, and if he can keep it up I think he'll keep the striker position
  30. Aug 12, 2019
    #30

    simonhch Horrible boss

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    Personally, and this will be scoffed at, but I think they both have world class potential. Putting Martial back in his best position (he is a striker!), and showing belief in him by giving him back the number 9, is not only a good move; but the right move. He scored 17 goals in his first season with us, playing up front and off the left. Just like he was today, interchanging with Rashford. More importantly, he showed desire and workrate today, which will take him up multiple levels. There are very few players around that have his ability with the ball at his feet. He is still only 23, and I really think that under Ole, we are going to see Martial become one of the best strikers in the league.

    Rashford's potential is frightening. Ever since he came through, he has been fearless. I've seen him described as a "kick and rush" footballer, which just goes to show how stupid some of our fans are. It is amazing for a club of our traditions, in bringing though and nurturing young talent, that so many fans are ready to rip our young players to pieces. Rashford has all the tools. Obviously his pace is ridiculous, as is his workrate and pressing. But his technique is right there, on the cusp of being brilliant. The way he took down the ball from Pogba's pass and coolly slotted it away....the boy is good. Very good. At just 21, I cannot wait to see how good he is going to be at 23 or 24. World class in my opinion, because he has the mentality. Feet on the ground, down to earth, hardworking, and desire to win.
  31. Aug 12, 2019
    #31

    Isotope Full Member

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    Rashford has insane work rate, abundance in pace, with some skill here and there. He'll make it here, even not as the main striker. It's hard to tell his limit.

    Martial though. He'll be 24 y.o. this year. As a striker/forward, he's close to "as good as it gets" already. I have doubt, but it seems like many see him will be a success. It's truly a make or break season for him. But he'll be here for a long time, regardless. No sane club will be willing to match his wages, unless he's on free.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  32. Aug 12, 2019
    #32

    Santoryo ripping the reward

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    It's just a Caf thing where everything is make or break. Players might be in their first season in and some people would be saying make or break season. People just love spouting that line around these boards.
  33. Aug 12, 2019
    #33

    Devil may care Full Member

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    I struggle to trust either of them and any hope of top 4 is on them as the goals aren't going to come from anywhere else. Obviously if they provide a consistent season where both bag 20+ in all comps I'll gladly eat humble pie and we'll only need to add 2 to the front 4 to get it where it needs to be, but I'll believe it when I see it as both still make so many sloppy passes and poor choices in the final 3rd and their goal scoring is erratic.
  34. Aug 12, 2019
    #34

    sp_107 New Member

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    It's easy to get carried away after yesterday but I think they struggle against teams who park the bus and also against Big teams.

    I feel it will be hot and cold and times we may get frustrated too but I hope they really excel and prove that they are top class regular starters by scoring many many goals and turning matches into our favour by their skills.
  35. Aug 12, 2019
    #35

    ryansgirl Full Member

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    True. Marcus Rashford has had strong support on these forums from some of when he was getting slagged off for being young, still learning, not able to turn around the problems of the squad when in fact it was not up to him and larking about in his free time without doing anything that could be described as bringing the club into disrepute.

    Players can have all the ability in the world but if the attitude isn't right and the mental toughness is not there, the ability doesn't become fulfilled. His supporters are confident he will keep growing in his team role. I thought the salary increase was appropriate - it was and is an investment in a very talented young player who already has England experience, has played in cup finals, has the ability and has the drive as well as the attitude that managers love.

    I was just willing him and Anthony to get goals in this match. Marcus is tougher mentally but then again he grew up in the Manchester area, he's from the UK, knows it and the Premier League like the back of his hand. Anthony does not. However. he has the right attitude - he just needs to develop his self-belief and keep working when things don't go his way.

    It's going to be better for these lads and the other young ones in a team with the likes of Harry and Aaron plus a committed Paul Pogba.
  36. Aug 12, 2019
    #36

    SinNombre New Member

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    Well we need 18+ goals in the league from both of them if we are to finish in the top 4.

    Even last season where the consensus opinion is that it was terrible for them,

    Rashford last season in the league, 17 goals+assists in 2343 minutes = 0.65 (G+A)/90

    Martial
    last season in the league, 13 goals+assists in 1623 minutes = 0.72 (G+A)/90

    I think is not unrealistic that they can average closer to 0.8 (G+A)/90 this season under a management which has full faith in them.


    The biggest reason why they may not make those numbers is the lack of creativity in the team outside of Pogba. We 100% need at least one more creative player as the advanced mid or right winger, and ideally both.
  37. Aug 12, 2019
    #37

    Mr Smith Full Member

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    So happy to see them both score. The two of them are responsible for our goals this season and to get 3 goals between them on matchday 1 is about as good as we could have asked for. Martial in particular looks a much better fit as a striker. I've been burnt before, but I think this really could be his year.
  38. Aug 12, 2019
    #38

    Eoin McMahon Full Member

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    It is definitely a risk starting the new season without a player, especially a forward that has shown that he can guarantee us 20+ goals for the season and I always felt selling Lukaku could be a costly mistake in the long run. Despite all his heavily criticized flaws one thing Lukaku guaranteed was goals, was PL proven which a replacement may not have been and I felt if he did accept being 2nd choice striker for us then keeping him would have been a no-brainer.

    Of course we still have Alexis Sanchez who had previously shown at Arsenal that he can score a good number of goals and provide plenty of assists but who knows will we ever get him anywhere near that level that he showed there so he can't be relied upon unless he decides to prove everyone wrong.

    Our number 9 and number 10. Martial and Rashford, two names that I would love to see side by side for many years to come. The question is will they push on and be able to take on the responsibility of scoring the goals we need to win games and maybe one day to win leagues? If not those names could remain side by side but on the bench not the pitch.
    Both can finish, have pace, dribbling ability but what makes a top striker, a striker that is scoring 20-30 goals season by season, is his awareness and positioning in and around the box and this is where I feel they may be lacking but its something that they can with hard work and time get to the level that will make them a world class striker.

    So it does leave us with two players who have shown especially at the beginning of their Man Utd careers, potential to become top strikers. Potential can be a dangerous term for a player in that how long can one be potentially a top player or to become a top player. Young players need to be nurtured by clubs regardless of how good the young player is and the coaching, the surroundings and the treatment a young player receives and has plays a pivotal role in how far the player can get in this game.
    I hate seeing wasted potential in any walk of life and especially soccer and as a guy who unfortunately had his chance taken away by injury to see how far my potential could go but seeing the young core of players getting a chance at such a huge club, young guys like Rashford, Lingard, Mctominay and Greenwood who grew up at the club that dream't of playing for us since they could kick a ball it's refreshing to see and hopefully Ole is the right man to develop this young team into not just a winning team but a Man United team.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  39. Aug 12, 2019
    #39

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    Good to see some positivity in this thread regarding the two of them. At the same time, it's important to put the onus on the creators as well. While Martial and Rashford are good footballers in addition to being talented forwards, we need the playmaking engine of the team to control games better and create more chances for them.
  40. Aug 12, 2019
    #40

    Mr PG New Member

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    How many world class strikers are there and how many are avail? I keep hearing how we need to ship them out if they don’t improve but tell me who is more capable and available?