Martial's United career so far?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Amar__, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. Apr 15, 2019

    Aloysius's Back 3 New Member

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    :lol:

    Oh dear. Its really rare for a main man at any club to score 18 goals goals when he has the squad built around getting the best out of him isn't it :rolleyes: how is the quality now? Where's his excuses at?

    Martial at United has been a striker for half a season and a left winger mate for the rest of his time here due to depay falling and the need for Mourinho's strict tactics to have crosses in to heightened lumber Jack's like Zlatan or Lukaku.

    I bet your one of the few fans who thinks Herrera is class and United quality :lol:
  2. Apr 15, 2019

    Reddy Rederson New Member

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    QPR? The utterly dog shit, and relegated qpr? You need to give your head wobble mate. Austin put in the effort and got his goals. He didn’t need to be surrounded by world class this and that. If martial is so good he shouldn’t need to be surrounded by world class to get a decent shift out of him.
  3. Apr 15, 2019

    Aloysius's Back 3 New Member

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    How have you decided Lukaku is better than Martial?

    Lukaku is a good player that needs to avoid first touches anywhere deep on the pitch and have the whole team built to provide him with 20 crosses a game so he can score 2.

    Lukaku is benteke V2.

    Whilst people may argue about martial's career - they only do so because they have seen him do well in situations but not consistently. Lukaku for us has been average to good for us when the whole team was built to get the best out of him whilst absolutely zilch/zero/rubbish when playing in a team that doesn't get the one and only skill out of him.

    That's the opposite to Martial. Had good performances when he was the main man tactically and had good performances when he wasn't.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  4. Apr 15, 2019

    Aloysius's Back 3 New Member

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    Odion ighalo scored 14 for Watford :houllier: I am finding it hard to find the relevance.

    There will always be scorers for teams and Austin scor 18 goals in a season when a hattrick came in one of them is hardly darn surprising when he was a forward for QPR and one or if not their main god damn player.

    How would Austin do being asked to cross the ball to Lukaku and do more defensive work eh? Utterly dog shit mate and you need to give your stomach a wobble.
  5. Apr 15, 2019

    abdo99 Full Member

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    Agreed. It's quite obvious we don't have the necessary depth of quality and the therefore any drop of form of our best players is amplified. City players go through spells of in and out of the team and rotating every 3 days without results being affected. We can't change one player without the whole style of football collapsing. See how Mata affects the play on RW.. It's madness to advocate for sale of Marrtial just as we're beggining the overhaul of the squad. Who scored more than him this season ? Sanchez? Lingard? Mata? lukaku played as the focal point and only mustered an extra 2 goals. If Ole is buying players suited for his football we should be less dependent next year on Martial
  6. Apr 15, 2019

    Aloysius's Back 3 New Member

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    Exactly -

    As I said before I never really enjoyed watching mkhitarayan here at United.

    However would we be better off with just sanchez at our club or both sanchez & Mkhitarayan?

    I'd say having both would have been better because even if not perfect our squad would atleast had a tiny bit more depth in quality to it. Likewise why should we sell Martial right now when we have so many gaps in the squad that needs replacing first? Why replace one generally good quality player for another one when we could have two?

    I just don't see the need to sell Martial, he is damn good enough at this stage to be one of our starters (which says about the lack of quality in the squad) and in the future where we as a club improve with a lot more quality players in the squad then martial can atleast be a important squad player for us.

    If not then he can go; but until the point we have enough quality players in quantity - selling martial would be a mistake because all he is is one of them.
  7. Apr 15, 2019

    Reddy Rederson New Member

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    :lol: You’re finding it hard to find the relevance, because you’re talking out of your bum. “It’s unfair to expect martial to play well because he doesn’t have great players around him”. That’s what I responded to. Austin didn’t have great players around him, yet got 18 goals. I use the Austin example because qpr got relegated. I used Austin as an example because he performed at his own level regardless of who else was in the team. Martial has in no way shape or form performed as his wage, transfer fee or spiel suggest he should be. That’s not because Jose was mean to him, or because lvg didn’t use him properly or because he’s been injured for 8 games under ole. It’s because he has never put the work in to be consistent. A moment here and there is worth feck all.

    Should he be the first out the door? Of course not, and since we won’t be getting rid of everyone at once you could say he’s got at least a year to prove everyone wrong. I don’t see it happening. I think if it was going to happen, it would have happened by now. Next you’ll be telling me Lingard needs world class around him to be great.
  8. Apr 15, 2019

    haram New Member

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    We finished 2nd with Lukaku as the number 9. Lukaku is a proven goal scorer. Martial has not developed since his debut season. Lukaku is better.
  9. Apr 15, 2019

    Aloysius's Back 3 New Member

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    Lukaku looks rubbish as a winger. Martial is better.
  10. Apr 15, 2019

    haram New Member

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    If you want to play it that way, if they’re both strikers and it’s Lukaku that gets picked to play there, he’s the better striker.
  11. Apr 15, 2019

    Champagne Football Full Member

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    Which player are you referring to?
  12. Apr 15, 2019

    Art Vandelay Full Member

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    Well this season alone Lukaku, Pogba and Rashford all have more goals and assists than him. Which suggests he's not one of two players we look to when we need a goal. So he's not out scoring everyone else, he's not creating more and he's certainly not working harder. How is he one of our best players? He has scored a fair amount of goals, but not to the point where he's beyond criticism.

    You described his performances as Good, Average, Average over a 3 year period or to put it another way; Good, excuse, excuse. Then said he was one of our best players. That's not the form of someone that can be described one of the teams best players. He's not a key player for us as he's too inconsistent and his bottom level is woeful. He's in the same bracket as Lukaku, probably lower given Lukaku scores and assists more while at least trying to work for the team. He just happens to be one of our only options on the left, which is his position, not striker as he's not played there to be able to claim it's his best position. That's as fanciful as people that claimed Rooney was a midfielder just because he wasn't delivering up front. I know what comes next though "He's playing as a left midfielder and not a winger." If I say he's playing as a winger you say "He needs to be an LF or inside forward and not a winger." He will always be better somewhere he's not playing. It's hard to even tell what his role is supposed to be because he just stands about near the left wing not really taking up either position.

    You claimed there was an anti Martial brigade earlier. There's too much of the "You either love/hate the same manager/player as me or you're in a rival faction!" shite on here. There's just people that expect a certain level of performance, especially from players that sulk for months and milk media speculation to demand a huge pay rise that they aren't justifying on the pitch. Every point someone makes you come up with some sort of excuse that equates to giving him time until the team is loaded with world class players and then he can coast off them delivering something good every once in a while. It doesn't work like that, he's on the list of players that need upgraded on and fanboyism won't change that.

    You ask why should we sell Martial now? Why shouldn't we? He's not offering anything that can't be replaced. If we get the right offer he should be sold just like most of our squad, he's not above other players that haven't performed. He's nothing special and he's almost 24 and hasn't improved at all from when he was 19. Unfortunately given the ridiculous wage we are paying him no one else will likely be willing to even come close to that and we are stuck with him. When we have rebuilt a bit and he's still at this level there will always be a new excuse though. The anti Martial brigade hurt his feelings and Ole is using him wrong so he can't be arsed to work hard or improve.

    He might come good, but we don't owe it to him to keep giving him chances here in the hope he finally pulls his thumb out of his arse. You can blame everyone else if you want,you can post green smileys and try to act like you're talking down to people, but deep down you have to know that his failure to improve at all is down to him alone.

    What's the point in having both Sanchez and Mhktaryan? They are both shit. That's like choosing between a rottweiler or a German shepherd to shit on your lawn and coming up with the idea of having both of them shit on it.
  13. Apr 15, 2019

    Aloysius's Back 3 New Member

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    Right I'm talking about my bum apparently.

    Austin is a key player at QPR and placed in a position that is similar to the type of performances you get when you have Lukaku at Everton scoring 40 goals in.a season. At that point the quality of player players secondarily to the goal of the team which is to provide Lukaku or Austin with chances. They are their central and one and only goal towards their team. When Lukaku or Austin score - they have the chance to win.

    That is not like it at United mate - it was only like that under Jose where he prioritised getting the best out of Zlatan & Lukaku centrally & with the whole team playing second fiddle to the main men upfront. That's why some of us say martial struggled under Jose period because of the favouritism and the need for Zlatan or Lukaku to play upfront similar to how Austin plays upfront for QPR.

    So using Austin at QPR to compare his performances to Martial is utter tosh because what QPR gave to Austin, Martial only got half a season under LVG.

    I really couldn't give a eff if the lad left - but selling him before we have an abundance of quality is stupid because he can just be one of the many good choices or options to have rather than only having one and two & being dissatisfied because that didn't work out - which is what is happening here.
  14. Apr 15, 2019

    Aloysius's Back 3 New Member

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    When the whole team plays the way & the only way Lukaku can play ie Stoke type football he is no doubt the better player.

    Put martial in any technical team that play first touch football and ball on the ground then Martial is worth much much more as a forward than what Lukaku offers.
  15. Apr 15, 2019

    Reddy Rederson New Member

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    Jesus christ, dude. You cant see the forest for the trees can you? I told you what I was replying to, you can ignore that if you like and continue to talk out your bum. toodles.
  16. Apr 15, 2019

    Art Vandelay Full Member

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    That's not how Lukaku plays, he prefers to run in behind than play with his back to goal and isn't a target man as he's proven for us. He struggled when we played long balls up to him.

    More hypotheticals where Martial is better in some far off fantasy land. Lukaku has thrived for Belgium and in a technical attacking Everton team. Martial hasn't thrived anywhere.
  17. Apr 15, 2019

    haram New Member

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    Put Martial in a technical team and his movement and work rate still stinks. Put Lukaku in the Belgian team and he scores goals for fun.

    Our delivery and crosses are shite anyway so that arguement doesnt even work. Cliche rubbish about Lukaku only being able to play in a Stoke side.
  18. Apr 15, 2019

    Aloysius's Back 3 New Member

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    Utter tripe. Lukaku is just as lazy as Martial.

    I ask you one question for your massive essay because I couldn't read it.

    Do we need to concentrate on getting a better RW, CAM, CM, LCB, RB or concentrate on wondering what Martial is struggling with?

    I wish you could tell me but I already know the answer. It's the same reason why it's stupid to sell Martial now when we have other options to sort out first.

    Pick the best 10 players in our squad & martial will be in one of them. Some of his more closer fans may have him in the top 5 or 6.

    Just why oh why would you sell the guy when we need so much quality around the pitch first.

    Anyway I've enjoyed speaking to you and I hope you enjoy Martial for another season atleast. The lad isn't going anywhere.

    BTW Lukaku has 12 goals and zero assists whilst Martial has 10 & 2 assists whilst

    A) playing hardly any games as a striker
    B) having a manager that pushed both Rashford & Martial out from striker zone due to their body shape (:lol:) & then competed them together never mind sanchez on top of that.

    PS sanchez has 1 goal and 3 assists.

    You want to keep him or would you rather keep Martial?

    And again - I know your answer because it's obvious. We should keep Martial because he may not be this fantastic balon dor winner but he is atleast good enough to start a few matches for us when we need him or atleast be a god damn bench option.


    Tell me why oh why don't you want Martial even as a bench option at United :confused: please don't talk about wages - that's just as much as an excuse as the ones you said I was making.
  19. Apr 15, 2019

    abdo99 Full Member

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    Which striker doesn't play without their back to the goal? These are just another confirmation of Lukakus limited style of play.
    Any half decent striker ie Batshuayi can thrive in the star studded Belgian team with Hazard and Co doing the heavy lifting. Everton have never been a technical team btw. They preffred to give up the ball and wait for counter attacks.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  20. Apr 15, 2019

    Aloysius's Back 3 New Member

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    Belgium played their best football when de bryune or Hazard played as a false 9 and Lukaku played out wide.

    The game where Lukaku moved back centre up top in the WC they lost because he is so darn easy to read.

    Any technical striker for Belgium is the player they have been missing throughout their 'golden generation'. I'm not for once saying Martial would score more goals than a Lukaku who is force fed chances by the rest of the team - but Martial or any other technical striker would benefit Belgium than having just another Fellaini type player upfront.

    Is benteke amazing to you guys as well - they literally have the same strengths and weaknesses & in no way is Martial worse than him.

    Anyway @Art Vandelay & @haram - goodnight and I hope you guys don't get too frustrated with Martial doing good once in a whilst. If he does its because ultimately we have Pogba, De gea, Shaw, Lindelof, Martial, Fred, Rashford & Lukaku as the only even half decent players in our squad.

    Selling one to replace him is a mistake when we need more quantity of quality players rather than just fine tuning our attack by replacing one player with another.
  21. Apr 15, 2019

    Art Vandelay Full Member

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    :lol: Straight back to passive aggressive and defensive.

    Why would I sell a player when we need quality? Because he's not delivering quality and we need quality.

    Lukaku has 15 goals and 4 assists in all competitions. Martial has 12 and 3.

    He doesn't play games as striker because he's only a striker in your head. Lukaku played up front because he's a striker, Rashford is a kid and Martial is a winger. You're going to at some point have to face reality here, you can't just keep posting from fantasy land.

    Neither Sanchez nor Martial have delivered consistently enough, why would I want either? What's Sanchez got to do with this? We're talking about Martial and you keep bringing up other players.

    I don't want him as a bench option because after 3 years of him not improving or providing consistent performances I don't have faith in him and he lacks the motivation to affect the game from the bench anyway.
  22. Apr 15, 2019

    Aloysius's Back 3 New Member

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    Thanks mate.

    @haram @Art Vandelay



    Alot of crosses leading to goals or chances created purely by counter attack where the defensive line is opened up and the whole team aims to get the ball to their one and only man Lukaku in to free space.
  23. Apr 15, 2019

    Art Vandelay Full Member

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    I didn't say he doesn't play with his back to the goal, I said he prefers running in behind defences in response to a claim he is a Stoke style striker.
  24. Apr 15, 2019

    haram New Member

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    You first said Martial and Rashford were the players we look to, to score for us. Now you are saying Martial would not score more than Lukaku but then try to compare him to Benteke because they are black Belgian number 9’s.

    Lukaku is simply better. Martial has prettier dribbling. Martial being a better striker is fantasy. Lukaku was made the scapegoat and Martial was apparently being held back by Jose. It was all bollocks. Only now Jose is gone are people waking up.
  25. Apr 15, 2019

    Aloysius's Back 3 New Member

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    But again - you are acting like the club has quality and martial is the only one who is failing.:lol:

    We are not so dense in quality that selling martial to just replace him with better quality makes sense right now. Lukaku, Rashford & Martial are players that score 10-15 goals a season whilst I totally understand the reason of needing a proper 20 a season striker or inverted forward - selling martial to do that when we have utter dross all around the club is utter bull mate.

    Mahrez, Sane, Sterling, Aguero, Jesus, Silva, Bernard Silva, De Bryune all literally fighting for a few spots & yet you want to sell martial just to replace him directly with another one player ?

    I just don't get it mate. I don't see Martial as a Balon Dor winner or anything However I regard him as a good enough option to have even if he isn't nowhere near the first name on the team sheet.

    Why we want to improve LW before the RW and CAM is beyond me & yet fans are starting to cry about martial struggling as a left winger & we need to get a better one ASAP.

    The fact is that we might do & we might need a better LW - but right now the LW is arguably the best and most covered position we have so we must rather target improving the other areas before improving martial.

    Take care & peace.
  26. Apr 15, 2019

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

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    I don't think Martial will ever made it with that kind of lazy attitude, the previous manager asked him to track back and he doesn't follow instruction.

    Good luck playing in top teams with that kind of attitude, even the likes of Messi / Ronaldo with all the freedom in the world did alot of movement to find space.
  27. Apr 15, 2019

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    That run he made inside the fullback where he got the chance to shoot infront of goal but left it for Lukaku is something he should do a lot more of.

    Also, given his pace isn't absolutely electric (but very good) and he has a very strong natural build, he should work on CF hold up play IMO. When he came to United he was extremely strong and difficult to knock off the ball which is why everyone felt he was a 9. Wish we would see that again.
  28. Apr 15, 2019

    Art Vandelay Full Member

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    I'm really not, I'm talking about Martial in a thread about Martial. No one has said LW is the first position that needs improving or that the rest of the squad is quality, just that it needs improving amongst the other positions. He's been part of the absolute dross.

    I'd replace half the squad given the chance, but half the squad don't have threads about their careers for us and most of them don't have people that get ultra defensive over them. It's going to take several windows to sort out anyway and it's very unlikely anyone else would take a chance on him given his wages, but that's not what this thread is about.

    It's just another position that we could and should do better and there's nothing wrong with stating that.
  29. Apr 15, 2019

    AgentP Full Member

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    Martial's career has gone nowhere in 4 years. I can honestly say that I can't see any improvement or change in his game since his first appearance for us. I would even say that he had more confidence and hunger in his game when he first came here.

    I think he has too many distractions off the field. He is either cheating his pregnant girlfriend or having instagram fights with his ex. You need to have focus if you want to be a truly exceptional player. I don't think he has that in him.
  30. Apr 15, 2019

    Ahsan_6386 New Member

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    His United career has been mostly average and quite underwhelming to be honest considering he was signed as the most expensive teenager . He had a rocking 1st season but has been indifferent in seasons there after . He seems to lack motivation at times and gives up easily . He needs to start playing more positively and needs to get in the middle more . His off the ball movement and casual body language are his biggest drawbacks . He has all the talent in the world but there is a big time lack of application from his side .
  31. Apr 15, 2019

    wolvored Full Member

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    He is very inconsistant, but no worse for this than Lukaku or Rashford. Hes 23 so in football terms should be looked at as a man not a youth prospect, yet his first season is still his best. Being as we look like we havent an open play goal in us at the moment I would like us to try Rashford-Martial-Lukaku in that order, see if Martial upfront can find the goals we sorely miss. Lukaku and Rashford have had success playing from the sides as well.
  32. Apr 15, 2019

    Eleven-Eighteen Full Member

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    Pique snuffed that out like only a defender who's been at the top of the world for 5 years straight could have. Against most other teams, Martial would have had a shot on goal. Whether he'd have scored is a different question given his current form
  33. Apr 15, 2019

    Eleven-Eighteen Full Member

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    Just massively disappointing tbh. For someone with such an incredibly high peak, the average performances are astoundingly, well, average.

    Him and Herrera were my two favourite United players the last couple of seasons. And look what's happening now
  34. Apr 15, 2019

    Water Melon before it dries out, eh

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    His United career has been pretty average so far. If he does not improve next season, I hope we sell him and try to bring in someone else, be it promoting someone from the reserves or buying a new player. I thought Martial has some huge potential, but he's been extremely inconsistent lately.
  35. Apr 15, 2019

    Kostov Full Member

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    Mourinho fecked up last season by mismanaging Martial when we brought in Alexis. A year later and you still can't grasp what a feck up he created.
  36. Apr 15, 2019

    Robbo's Shoulder Full Member

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    Disappointed in Martial's progression over the 4 years he's been here. A good 2 or 3 games here and there doesn't make for a top quality forward. He's 23 now and should be somewhere near reaching his potential, he really needs to work hard in pre-season and start showing why he was so highly rated. It's up to him, does he want it enough?
  37. Apr 15, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

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    I think many are too harsh on Martial. For various reasons he didn't play much in the league in last 3 seasons. He played around 1500 mins this season, last season and season before that. But his numbers are good for the mins played.

    This season he looked good and then got injured and then struggled.

    Considering the total mins he is playing, he is doing good enough but he should improve in few areas and also improve his fitness levels.

    2016-17: 6 goals + 4 assists in 1558 mins (155 mins per G+A)
    2017-18: 9 goals + 5 assists in 1584 mins (113 mins per G+A)
    2018-19: 10 goals + 2 assists in 1482 mins (123 mins per G+A)

    In last 3 seasons he has played less than 50% of total mins in league. I think if he stays fit then he will play a lot under Ole. He should keep up his goal scoring rate.
  38. Apr 15, 2019

    Smores Full Member

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    Martial was one of the only performing players under Jose this season. Might have been mismanaged last season but didn't carry into this. 6 goals in 5 games in that run
  39. Apr 15, 2019

    Kostov Full Member

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    I agree, he was very good when he got extended run somewhere in September, October and November I think. I just pointed out that Mourinho did feck up with Martial and basically wasted half season last year and you can make a case for the season before, just like he was doing that with Shaw as well. That poster tends to mop up shit that actually happened and slate Martial when he actually was mistreated.
  40. Apr 15, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    Pogba & Martial are the only reason we are 5th even, feckin hilarious we've folks saying get rid of both. We'd be scoring nothing in the vast majority of games and statistically in a relegation battle.



    Working his way back from injury? You do realize it takes a few games to build up match fitness levels again? To be performing at a highly consistent level you need to be playing consistently.

    I've attached his games for Ole

    Ole's 23 games managed & Martials involvement.

    CARDIFF - Started (scored), HUD - Not involved, BOURN - Started (Assist), NEW - Started / Subbed Off, READ - UNUSED Sub, SPURS - Started, BRIGHTON - Started / Subbed Off, ARSENAL - Started (Scored), BURN - Not Involved, LEIC - Subbed On, FUL - Started (Scored & Assisted), PSG - Started, CHELSEA - Not Involved, LIV - Not Involved, CRYSTAL PALACE - Not Involved, SOUTHAMPTON - Not Involved, PSG - Not Involved, ARSENAL - Sub On, WOLV - Started, WATFORD - Started (Scored), WOLV - Subbed On, BARCA - Subbed On, WHU - Started.

    So he's started & finished 9 matches, scoring 4 goals and set up 2 more goals. He's given the side 6 goals in 9 games whilst trying to build up fitness and form. That isn't performing for you?

    Maybe, just maybe you need to look elsewhere to the likes of say Lingard? You know how often auld Jesse "Messi" Lingard is involved in a goal for us for Ole? Just the once since Dec vs Arsenal and feck me, Social Media was lit up for about a fortnight about it being his dance floor.

    Meanwhile auld French Tony delivers at a far more consistent level and your in here giving him a hard time for doing so? :nono::lol::lol:

    Martial is not the problem, he plays he delivers more often then not. You need be looking elsewhere at the likes of Lingard, Mata.

    Them's the facts, he himself...is delivering.

    As for Pogba, he's more goal involvement this season than Firmino and Kane! But we still get folks whinging saying they don't do enough. Before you say it too, Kane is Spurs penalty taker as well.

    http://www.espnfc.com/player/181140/anthony-martial


    You said top side, Chelsea are in the traditional top 6 teams.

    I gave you Alli at Spurs as well. Mahrez at City can't get playing time. Sane has a goal less in the league than Martial. Like I said, take your pick, all sides have attackers struggling for form for any number of reasons.

    Not sure what the issue here is, I've already said I'd like to see more movement from him?

    He's still giving us end product. I wouldn't put him in the underwhelming bracket myself. He's doing OK to good for a player dealing with niggling injuries.