Film Martin Scorsese - Marvel movies are 'not cinema'

Shane88

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Is he feck. Big "Achkshually" energy from that guy.

I've watched all the Avenger movies and a handful of the in-between ones, really enjoyed them all but give me a break with people saying that line by the tin man is just amaaaaazing and writers all over will be slack-jawed at it, like those tweets are suggesting.

It's cheese.
 

el3mel

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Honestly who cares about this?

I'm not a movie critic. I just want to have some fun time regardless and Marvel movies are mostly entertaining. That's about it.
 

Zen

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:lol:

He seems quite earnest judging by his replies but this one's great.
:lol:

:lol: at this 'quote' reaction in general.
 

Mr Pigeon

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Hey, if anime fans can turn any non anime discussion into a lecture about how amazing Ecto Fecto from Ghost Fighter Warriors X* is at extolling the virtues of knowledge and patience then we should let these people confuse the dark void that is grief with the hope that you'll one day get your hole again.

*Don't watch anime, I've got no idea what I'm talking about. In general about everything.
 

Vidyoyo

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Hey, if united fans can turn any non Ole thread into a lecture about how amazing our team would be if we relied on a proper system of play rather than individual levels of brilliance then we should let these people confuse their own personal achievements with the hope that one day they'll be able to brag again to their mates and colleagues.

*Don't post in the United forum, I've got no idea what I'm talking about. In general about all.
 

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Scorsese is wrong. Marvel movies are cinema, just a bad one.
 

Mr Pigeon

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Hey, if united fans can turn any non Ole thread into a lecture about how amazing our team would be if we relied on a proper system of play rather than individual levels of brilliance then we should let these people confuse their own personal achievements with the hope that one day they'll be able to brag again to their mates and colleagues.

*Don't post in the United forum, I've got no idea what I'm talking about. In general about all.
:lol: fair play
 

OleBoiii

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:lol:

I looked at his picture and I guess he's in his mid 30's. That would mean that from the age of 5 he's watched 2 new movies per week up until now. Unless he was a spoiled kid with few other hobbies, I think it's safe to assume the he did not watch 2 new movies per week until he reached young adulthood. Which in return would mean that he's seen a new movie every other day since turning 20 or something.

I'm calling bullshit! And that is despite the fact that he saw a remastered movie in a film festival once!

:lol:
 

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Honestly who cares about this?

I'm not a movie critic. I just want to have some fun time regardless and Marvel movies are mostly entertaining. That's about it.
That's where you are going wrong mate. For some movies aren't about having fun, they are serious business.
 

dumbo

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I don't think that it's a problem that people enjoy that line, or that they feel it means something, and it doesn't matter how many films people have seen. The line works as a catchy subversion of the idea of grief as something to be suffered. The phrase zings, and it presents a comforting recontextualisation of loss.

I personally dislike the slogan-speak nature of it. It strikes me as a glib fabrication of worldly experience; an artificial escapist expression. However this is largely an issue of personal preference. People shouldn't be shamed for liking empty sloganeering entertainment. Especially as we're constantly being conditioned to accept it. Access to art should be somewhat democratic. Accessible casual entertainment should be allowed. Art doesn't belong to us contorted freaks with flayed souls. Gleeful Tory sociopaths also need their distractions.

However the problem, as I see it, comes from its pervasiveness. You can barely escape that superficial style. It's present in most modern film and TV and it leaks over into everything else, from entertainment to politics, sports and news reporting.
It just piles up into a mountain of stuff you have to wade through in order to find something that speaks to the experiential.

We used to understand what it meant for Gil to lose Enkidu, now we can only mourn the loss of Iron Man's special power of punching an Arab's head in half.
 

stevoc

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Pretty sure Disney also considers movies as serious business.
No doubt they'd film just about anything and put it in the cinema if they thought it would make them $1-2 billion dollars.

And loads of different types of Films can makes billions of dollars even stuff like the Transformers and Fast Furious movies because a lot of people find them fun and enjoyable to watch for some reason. And that's the thing the movie industry and Cinema, specifically the movie going experience is a form of entertainment first and foremost. If it didn't make money it wouldn't exist on the scale that it does.

Scorsese and others like to shit on movies that they don't consider ''Cinema'' but it's primarily those movies that are (or were pre-Covid) keeping the lights on at most movie theatres and sustaining much of the industry.
 
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Sweet Square

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Scorsese and others like to shit on movies that they con't consider ''Cinema'' but it's primarily those movies that are (or were pre-Covid) keeping the lights on at most movie theatres and sustaining much of the industry.
 

HTG

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Good one.
It’s a sad state of affairs when people seriously argue that Disney is the company keeping the lights on in cinemas. fecking Disney. I don’t even know how to respond to that.
 

OleBoiii

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Good one.
It’s a sad state of affairs when people seriously argue that Disney is the company keeping the lights on in cinemas. fecking Disney. I don’t even know how to respond to that.
 

stevoc

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Good one.
It’s a sad state of affairs when people seriously argue that Disney is the company keeping the lights on in cinemas. fecking Disney. I don’t even know how to respond to that.
Oh right i must have imagined that Disney own the majority of the movie industry now after buying Fox and have been dominating the Box Office for years. How silly of me.
 

caid

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Good one.
It’s a sad state of affairs when people seriously argue that Disney is the company keeping the lights on in cinemas. fecking Disney. I don’t even know how to respond to that.
I kind of think they are. I'd rather watch a scorsese movie at home.
 

HTG

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Oh right i must have imagined that Disney own the majority of the movie industry now after buying Fox and have been dominating the Box Office for years. How silly of me.
You’re very close to getting the problem. Very close.
 

HTG

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Alas I must just not be smart enough to understand.

Maybe i will just converse through the medium of meme from now on, that will make people think i'm intelligent.
Your words, not mine.
I think it’s a very Strange Point of view to argue that the company monopolising a whole industry, buying and destroying all competition, and driving up the prices for cinemas who want to rent their movies, is the company „keeping the lights on“. Especially in comparison to someone like Scorsese.
Disney are the ones desperately trying to push the light switch ffs.
 

stevoc

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Your words, not mine.
I think it’s a very Strange Point of view to argue that the company monopolising a whole industry, buying and destroying all competition, and driving up the prices for cinemas who want to rent their movies, is the company „keeping the lights on“. Especially in comparison to someone like Scorsese.
Disney are the ones desperately trying to push the light switch ffs.
I never said it was a good thing mate.

There are no doubt a multitude of factors and shady business practices that lead us to where the movie industry and cinemas are right now. I agree Disney have been the main culprit in squeezing the Cinema chains for years.

But whether we like it or not Big Blockbusters are what the Cinema chains are relying on these days to get people away from Netflix and other streaming platforms and into the cinemas.
 

Vidyoyo

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I don't think that it's a problem that people enjoy that line, or that they feel it means something, and it doesn't matter how many films people have seen. The line works as a catchy subversion of the idea of grief as something to be suffered. The phrase zings, and it presents a comforting recontextualisation of loss.

I personally dislike the slogan-speak nature of it. It strikes me as a glib fabrication of worldly experience; an artificial escapist expression. However this is largely an issue of personal preference. People shouldn't be shamed for liking empty sloganeering entertainment. Especially as we're constantly being conditioned to accept it. Access to art should be somewhat democratic. Accessible casual entertainment should be allowed. Art doesn't belong to us contorted freaks with flayed souls. Gleeful Tory sociopaths also need their distractions.

However the problem, as I see it, comes from its pervasiveness. You can barely escape that superficial style. It's present in most modern film and TV and it leaks over into everything else, from entertainment to politics, sports and news reporting.
It just piles up into a mountain of stuff you have to wade through in order to find something that speaks to the experiential.

We used to understand what it meant for Gil to lose Enkidu, now we can only mourn the loss of Iron Man's special power of punching an Arab's head in half.
Comfort is a good word. I suspect the reason these movies have power is because a vast majority feel overwhelmed and are looking for something enjoyable and simple. Generally speaking, they don't really ask questions and they work because they speak to people's emotion more than their intellect. This seems like a wider cultural phenomenon at the moment as you can see it in politics and the advertising industry (i.e. social media).

P.s. This isn't a rant about why comfortable things are bad. More an observation about how prevalent and popular comfortable things seem to be.
 
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Vidyoyo

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I never said it was a good thing mate.

There are no doubt a multitude of factors and shady business practices that lead us to where the movie industry and cinemas are right now. I agree Disney have been the main culprit in squeezing the Cinema chains for years.

But whether we like it or not Big Blockbusters are what the Cinema chains are relying on these days to get people away from Netflix and other streaming platforms and into the cinemas.
Chain cinemas do their thing but there's a lot of support/hunger for smaller, independent ones these days. Probably half the reason is because a big proportion of those people (especially people outside of the 18-35 bracket) were so frigging bored of what the chains offered.

I'm sort of just hoping Covid hasn't obliterated this completely.
 

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Comfort is a good word. I suspect the reason these movies have power is because a vast majority feel overwhelmed and are looking for something enjoyable and simple. Generally speaking, they don't really ask questions and they work because they speak to people's emotion more than their intellect. This seems like a wider cultural phenomenon at the moment as you can see it in politics and the advertising industry (i.e. social media).

Neoliberalism can't offer you decent housing, good healthcare or a unionised workplace but it can offer you countless remakes from you're childhood.
 

e.cantona

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Marvel movies are like pretty colors. Equivalent of cat videos on youtube. Picture I get in my head is the people on the spaceship in Wall-E. To each their own..
 

stevoc

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Chain cinemas do their thing but there's a lot of support/hunger for smaller, independent ones these days. Probably half the reason is because a big proportion of those people (especially people outside of the 18-35 bracket) were so frigging bored of what the chains offered.

I'm sort of just hoping Covid hasn't obliterated this completely.
Same here mate, even before Covid though I think Cinema's big and small were in real danger of going the way of the Dodo. They've never really had to compete with something like Streaming before and it's worrying that the Movie studios are now releasing Movies on their streaming platforms either simultaneously or shortly after a Theatrical release. If that becomes the norm then i imagine most people will just opt to watch stuff in the comfort of their home instead of going to the cinema.

Now I personally enjoy the Marvel movies for what they are as i take the kids to watch them etc. but i understand why some don't that's totally fine.

My earlier point was basically Scorsese and anyone who loves having the option of going to your local cinema to watch Movies. Should not worry so much about what sort of Movies are popular right now. The type of movies that are playing in the cinemas are not as important as the fact that at least there are still movies playing in the cinemas. The industry will evolve and the audience will move past Superhero movies one day. I'm just hoping Cinemas in some form survive as even in my City over the last few years 2-3 cinemas have shut down. If/when we get past Covid i expect there will be more closing sadly.
 

caid

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Chain cinemas do their thing but there's a lot of support/hunger for smaller, independent ones these days. Probably half the reason is because a big proportion of those people (especially people outside of the 18-35 bracket) were so frigging bored of what the chains offered.

I'm sort of just hoping Covid hasn't obliterated this completely.
I think theres a future for the smaller, independent cinemas and they were doing relatively well before the pandemic from what i understand. I think the big chain cinemas are living on borrowed time and Marvel has basically single handed kept them open the last decade.
I dont even like Marvel movies much, they're just one of very few films i'd rather see in the cinema
 

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I don't think that it's a problem that people enjoy that line, or that they feel it means something, and it doesn't matter how many films people have seen. The line works as a catchy subversion of the idea of grief as something to be suffered. The phrase zings, and it presents a comforting recontextualisation of loss.

I personally dislike the slogan-speak nature of it. It strikes me as a glib fabrication of worldly experience; an artificial escapist expression. However this is largely an issue of personal preference. People shouldn't be shamed for liking empty sloganeering entertainment. Especially as we're constantly being conditioned to accept it. Access to art should be somewhat democratic. Accessible casual entertainment should be allowed. Art doesn't belong to us contorted freaks with flayed souls. Gleeful Tory sociopaths also need their distractions.

However the problem, as I see it, comes from its pervasiveness. You can barely escape that superficial style. It's present in most modern film and TV and it leaks over into everything else, from entertainment to politics, sports and news reporting.
It just piles up into a mountain of stuff you have to wade through in order to find something that speaks to the experiential.

We used to understand what it meant for Gil to lose Enkidu, now we can only mourn the loss of Iron Man's special power of punching an Arab's head in half.
Ah, a fellow scholar! Glad to find out that someone else is on the same intellectual level as moi.

The glaring issue with modern entertainment (I use the term entertainment to highlight it's separation from true art) is that it is written by committee. Usually the friend of a friend of a producer, instead of the hard working masters of old. I long for the days the greats who brought us celluloid divinity to be reborn. True marvels of cinema like Idiocracy or Road Trip: Beer Pong.

Just joking (attempting to). Personally the only thing I think is wrong with that tweet is the over the top reaction.
 

Vidyoyo

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Same here mate, even before Covid though I think Cinema's big and small were in real danger of going the way of the Dodo. They've never really had to compete with something like Streaming before and it's worrying that the Movie studios are now releasing Movies on their streaming platforms either simultaneously or shortly after a Theatrical release. If that becomes the norm then i imagine most people will just opt to watch stuff in the comfort of their home instead of going to the cinema.

Now I personally enjoy the Marvel movies for what they are as i take the kids to watch them etc. but i understand why some don't that's totally fine.

My earlier point was basically Scorsese and anyone who loves having the option of going to your local cinema to watch Movies. Should not worry so much about what sort of Movies are popular right now. The type of movies that are playing in the cinemas are not as important as the fact that at least there are still movies playing in the cinemas. The industry will evolve and the audience will move past Superhero movies one day. I'm just hoping Cinemas in some form survive as even in my City over the last few years 2-3 cinemas have shut down. If/when we get past Covid i expect there will be more closing sadly.
Agreed and they seem like completely different aspects from where I'm sitting. Even in terms of online streaming you have BFI Player and MUBI to rival the juggernauts of Netflix/Prime. They seem to be doing okay despite the fact that 'BFI Player and Chill' hasn't entered common parlance yet.

I think theres a future for the smaller, independent cinemas and they were doing relatively well before the pandemic from what i understand. I think the big chain cinemas are living on borrowed time and Marvel has basically single handed kept them open the last decade.
I dont even like Marvel movies much, they're just one of very few films i'd rather see in the cinema
Yeah, I worked in one for two years and it was in excellent shape (better than anticipatd!). Most people were middle-aged so I assume were regulars due to having disposable income - and also to get out of the house. It was always the same when I visited The Phoenix in Leicester too.

I think this sort of demographic is different to younger people because Students don't want to spend money on stuff. They prefer convenience. Similar, I think, to how Starbucks has its crowd whereas Independent Coffee Place up the road has a completely different crowd.

Again, just hoping Covid hasn't obliterated this, otherwise we'd need Iron Dude to come sort it out.

Sorry for wayward typing too. I'm rushing this out in-between tasks at work.
 

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I don't like Marvel movies, and I've enjoyed 90% of Scorcese's work. So on that metric alone I'm going to agree with him :angel:
 

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I just assumed all those tweeters were taking the piss. I even thought they were too obvious about it. Shows what I know.
 

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I don't think that it's a problem that people enjoy that line, or that they feel it means something, and it doesn't matter how many films people have seen. The line works as a catchy subversion of the idea of grief as something to be suffered. The phrase zings, and it presents a comforting recontextualisation of loss.

I personally dislike the slogan-speak nature of it. It strikes me as a glib fabrication of worldly experience; an artificial escapist expression. However this is largely an issue of personal preference. People shouldn't be shamed for liking empty sloganeering entertainment. Especially as we're constantly being conditioned to accept it. Access to art should be somewhat democratic. Accessible casual entertainment should be allowed. Art doesn't belong to us contorted freaks with flayed souls. Gleeful Tory sociopaths also need their distractions.

However the problem, as I see it, comes from its pervasiveness. You can barely escape that superficial style. It's present in most modern film and TV and it leaks over into everything else, from entertainment to politics, sports and news reporting.
It just piles up into a mountain of stuff you have to wade through in order to find something that speaks to the experiential.

We used to understand what it meant for Gil to lose Enkidu, now we can only mourn the loss of Iron Man's special power of punching an Arab's head in half.
+1 for the GIlgamesh reference. A lot of grief came out of that love though.

Anyway, another thing to consider about that love=grief line - is this different from what people used to watch and appreciate? I mean, I think it's pretty superficial, and sad that apparently it's taken to be deep. (As much as people can appreciate whatever they want, of course, and it's good for people to be able to take personal value out of culture, whatever i think of it.) But part of the discussion about this seems to involve despairing of people's intellectual depth. Which then in turn, to me at least, suggests that it was once better - especially since this is coming up in the context of a discussion of comments by Scorcese referring to the Good Ol' Days. But was popular culture as consumed by most people ever deeper and better? I'd doubt it. I think we just see more of people's responses because of social media. It's kinda like people worrying about criminality because their local newspaper reports on a robbery every week - it's not, and isn't meant to be, representative of actual developments in society.
 

Vidyoyo

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+1 for the GIlgamesh reference. A lot of grief came out of that love though.

Anyway, another thing to consider about that love=grief line - is this different from what people used to watch and appreciate? I mean, I think it's pretty superficial, and sad that apparently it's taken to be deep. (As much as people can appreciate whatever they want, of course, and it's good for people to be able to take personal value out of culture, whatever i think of it.) But part of the discussion about this seems to involve despairing of people's intellectual depth. Which then in turn, to me at least, suggests that it was once better - especially since this is coming up in the context of a discussion of comments by Scorcese referring to the Good Ol' Days. But was popular culture as consumed by most people ever deeper and better? I'd doubt it. I think we just see more of people's responses because of social media. It's kinda like people worrying about criminality because their local newspaper reports on a robbery every week - it's not, and isn't meant to be, representative of actual developments in society.
Yeah it certainly does seem due to the democratisation of opinion via social media. It's not exactly the best place for highbrow debate.
 

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I don't like Marvel movies, and I've enjoyed 90% of Scorcese's work. So on that metric alone I'm going to agree with him :angel:
What about those of us who like both?

Insert Larry David head wobble meme..