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Mason Greenwood 2019-20 Performances

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4 Appearances
  1. Aug 31, 2019

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Pereira played all his best football on loan as a wide attacking player, on the right. Basically the same position he played - badly - today.

    Sticking Greenwood on the wing would involve asking a 17 year old to play much more out of position than anything expected of Pereira.
  2. Aug 31, 2019

    Rozay Master of Hindsight

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    Not sure about that sir. Greenwood is a forward. Left, right or centre - it’s comfortable habitation for him. Pereira played RM (not right wing) like 3 or 4 years ago at Granada, but he clearly has less tools to be a winger than Greenwood.

    Also, if what you said were true, it’s almost a position/role that is totally unaffected by Martial’s absence in the first place. Any role that Pereira’s qualities are naturally suited to should have nothing to do with Martial.
  3. Sep 1, 2019

    Grande Full Member

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    Forwards as in striker options, yes. Answering a question about replacing Lukaku (striker). He obviously didn’t mean what you imply he meant, as Lingard, James and Pereira has started ahead of Greenwood as wide forwards, which probably most people expected them to.

    I think probably you are the only one thinking this has been a 4-3-3. Not that the differences need be so big, but in a 4-3-3, defensively you’l se teams fall back to three central midfieldets once they lose the ball. In 4-2-3-1, you’ll often see the no 10 (Lingard, Pereira, Mata, Gomes as well in preseason) stay up and press high with the striker, while the wide forwards fall back first, often resembling 4-4-2. Rashford has played wide left apart from today and the start of preseason.
  4. Sep 1, 2019

    Flying_Heckfish Full Member

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    Looked to play with confidence, he and James stood out for me in that regard. Compare his perforamnce to Rashford's ...
  5. Sep 1, 2019

    Rozay Master of Hindsight

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    So are you saying Rashford has been in midfield?

    And the question has not been about Lukaku in isolation, it has also been about Sanchez, who does not play as a striker. He’s a forward. Lingard has also been used as a ‘forward’ many times for us, wrongly of course as he offers zero goal threat, and James is an actual forward. Pereira isn’t. He ‘plays on the right’ in the way Pogba ‘plays on the left’.

    As I said in a previous post, if Martial was fit, we play Martial, Rashford and James in our front line. Given they all play together, you can’t just say ‘Rashford is the replacement’ - he’s already in the team as a forward. If Martial, Rashford and James are the first choice trio, then there’s no way Pereira should be a replacement for any of them. In the same way Pogba couldn’t replace Mané on the left. They have very different qualities. Pogba and Pereira are midfielders. They favour a side, but they do not have the qualities of Martial, Rash or James. Greenwood is of this mould. Replacing Martial with Andreas Pereira in an attack is ridiculous, as anyone can see by simply looking at the qualities of both players. It’s obvious that Pereira cannot offer anything like the same threat.
  6. Sep 1, 2019

    MadDogg Full Member

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    Rashford has been the left wing for most of the time.

    Our apparent first choice front line so far has been Martial up front, Rashford, Lingard and James in behind him, then Pogba and McTominay as a two man midfield.
  7. Sep 1, 2019

    Rozay Master of Hindsight

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    James in behind who?

    Rashford has been left wing indeed. As a forward. Ronaldo plays left wing. They are not midfielders.

    Our apparent first choice attack has been Rashford, Martial and James up front, with Lingard as a 10. Rashford, Martial and James play as forwards, not midfielders, in the same way Liverpool play 3 midfielders, not 5 including Mané and Salah. Out of that quarter, surely it makes sense for Pereira to come in only in place of Lingard? He should not be ahead of Greenwood to replace any of the other 3, for obvious reasons.

    Greenwood should come in to cover any of Rashford, Martial or James. He serves the same function as them. They are there to add the incision in the team. Martial plays middle and Rashford plays left, but not left midfield in the way fecking Pogba does! He’s a forward, and is expected to score goals, not make them.

    Ole bottled the decision for me, quite simply. Greenwood, or even Chong, should be next in line if Rashford, Martial or James can’t play. Otherwise we will go from having 3 forwards to 2 forwards and one midfielder in our front line.

    Not sure why this is even a debate. In what world is Pereira a sensible substitute for Anthony Martial?
  8. Sep 1, 2019

    BiggusCrickus New Member

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    Needs to leave along with Gomes if he wants to become a player. Whilst the management continue with Lingard these lads will never make it sadly.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2019
  9. Sep 1, 2019

    Grande Full Member

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    Do you think 4-2-3-1 has 1 forward and 4-3-3 has 3? That’s not the way it works. Rashford, like Martial, is in contention for two roles, both when we played 4-3-3 last season, and now, when we play 4-2-3-1. That is the striker role, and the wide left role. They both prefer the striker role.

    You probably didn’t see those interviews with Solskjær in preseason after Rashford played on the left, about the tactic being that McTominay was helping Shaw a bit on the left, because Rasford had a more protruded role and less defensive responsibility in his LW position than Lingard or James had in their RW position. It’s quite common to skew formations like that, dependent on the qualities of the players you have.

    In the 4-2-3-1 we have played since July, Pereira is a natural candidate in the RW position - particularily when we have a faster, more direct option like Rashford, Martial or even James on the left, as he has played similar roles at United, Granada and Valencia before. He even had an assist in that role against Chelsea. That doesn’t mean he plays the same way as Rashford does when he is a LW, so that would be a silly comparison to make.

    Greenwood is ‘the replacement’ for Lukaku as a central attacker, he is third after Martial and Rashford in that regard. As the wide roles go, we have many more alternatives: Martial, Rashford, Lingard, James, Pereira, Mata, Greenwood, Gomes and Chong for two places.

    You probably expected to see Greenwood, who has mainly played centrally and played very little adults football, to start this season as a regular on the right side of a 4-3-3. I’m quite sure, though, that most people, including Solskjær himself, was rather expecting him to get minutes from the bench in a 4-2-3-1 as either a striker or a RW.
  10. Sep 1, 2019

    Rozay Master of Hindsight

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    So when, as we did against Wolves and Palace, and probably would have against Saints it James was fit - we line up with Rashford, Martial and James, what sort of formation is that?

    You say ‘Pereira is a natural option for RW (Pereira can never be a ‘natural option’ as a winger) because we have more ‘direct options’ like Rashford, Martial and James for the left’. Well our first choice lineup suggests that we favour the ‘direct option’ of both Rashford AND James on the wings. Given Rashford and James are our first choice out wide, and Martial through the middle, how do you replace one of these with Pereira over Mason? They are forwards. Rashford is a forward on the left, Martial previously played as a forward on the left, Mané plays as a forward on the left, Son plays as a forward on the left etc. None of these are midfielders.

    The difference between 4231 and 433 is the use of the 10. In a 433, we would play with 3 actual central midfielders. In a 231, we use a 10. Last season in a 433, we didn’t use a 10 under Jose, we went with 3 midfielders. You say we are playing a 4231 not a 433 - however, in a 433, we would line up with the exact same front men in Rashford, Martial and James.

    You say our formation is ‘skewed to the left’ which in itself shows we are not playing a 4231. If Rashford and Martial both share the same attacking line, then we obviously don’t have one up front. Just as Barcelona with Henry on the left did not play one up front. With a Dan James on the other side, we clearly have 3 up front. We had the opportunity to continue with 3 up front yesterday despite Martial’s injury, because we have other forwards available. We instead put Pereira there, who obviously wasn’t doing the same job Dan James was doing there in the previous two games, because he’s a different profile of player. Greenwood might have done though, but he’s 17, so Ole retreated and played an older, less suited, and less talented player.

    For all the talk of him giving young players a chance, Lampard is showing him what that ACTUALLY looks like down at Chelsea. He’s given Greenwood scraps, even when chasing a goal, and he’s left Gomes out of every squad despite the more senior options being totally and utterly hopeless. Yesterday Lampard started Tomori, Mount and Abraham. Abraham ahead of the ‘experienced’ (but rubbish) Giroud, and Mount ahead of a number of senior options. Ole is a charlatan, or simply a coward. His banging on about giving kids a chance is rubbish if what he simply means is he’ll play them in dead rubbers. He’s done nothing Jose wouldn’t have so far.

    And I was not ‘expecting Greenwood who has played most of his football centrally to start as a regular on the RW’. And I’m aware he’s no winger, just as Rashford is no winger. I expected him to be a substitute for the front three positions and play in case of injury. I expected Pereira to be a substitute for the middle three positions. That would be a more natural order of things. Ole played it safe by playing Pereira ahead of Greenwood in the position Dan James has been occupying, despite being a lot further away from James than Greenwood is. He’s not an attacker. He offers little goal threat. James had already scored 2 this season.
  11. Sep 1, 2019

    Godfather Full Member

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    These 10 min cameos are a joke
  12. Sep 1, 2019

    Powderfinger Full Member

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    Mount, Tomori, and Abraham are 20-21 and have each been on multiple loans previously. They’ve all played 80 or more matches at senior level. They are simply in a different stage of their career progression and far readier to contribute.

    In terms of experience, they are more similar to James or Wan-Bissaka than they are to Greenwood or Gomes.
  13. Sep 1, 2019

    Rozay Master of Hindsight

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    That’s true. Although everything isn’t parallel. Nobody would be comparable to Greenwood as he’s way ahead of the curve. No point comparing him to 17 year olds elsewhere. That would be obvious by simply comparing him to the other 17 year olds at our own club. He’s miles ahead of them because he’s miles ahead of them. Greenwood is actually comparable to the likes of Mount and Abraham simply due to the fact that he’s our best young player and closest to the first team. That it took Abraham until he was 20-odd and it only took Mason until 17 is testimony to their respective talent.

    And AWB is totally different gravy too. He’s had a season and a half of PL football, and been amongst the best in the league in his position. The main point is that Chelsea are playing the young players they have, we are not. I accept that they are slightly older there, but that is the age they have. Liverpool player Trent younger than that because that’s the age he was when he was good enough to play. Foden has started played many first team games at the same age as Gomes.

    Players play when they are good enough to. Greenwood is younger than his teammate Chong, however, he’s played more than him. Chong has turned out for the academy this season still while Mason hasn’t. He’s actually the equivalent of the Chelsea lot, it’s not formula.
  14. Sep 1, 2019

    Jonno Full Member

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    Our 17 year old academy graduate needs to leave to become a player? I’ve read some rubbish posts on here, but that one my friend is right up there
  15. Sep 1, 2019

    MikeKing Full Member

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    :lol: Thats hilarious. Kind of a poisonous view to have too, imo.
  16. Sep 1, 2019

    stepic Full Member

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    He should start as the striker when Martial is injured. Rashford is absolutely useless as a 9. Keep Rashford on the left where he’s best.

    And give him more than 10 minutes ffs Ole
  17. Sep 1, 2019

    Maradona10 Duncan Castles

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    Yeah mason should have tore his shirt, screamed “motherfecker pass me the ball “ at the top of his voice for lingard to see him. No fault of lingard, none at all.
  18. Sep 1, 2019

    Bestietom Full Member

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    This young man has a bright future ahead of him. More game time will make him better.
  19. Sep 3, 2019

    pascell Full Member

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    The Athletic reporting we're in negotiations on a new deal for him and bumping his wages up to 25k a week. Also mentions we're going to negotiate with Gomes, Garner, Chong, Laird and Williams over new deals too.
  20. Sep 3, 2019

    Bestietom Full Member

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    This is great news.
  21. Sep 3, 2019

    nyanza New Member

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    We're going to (in future tense) negotiate with Gomes 4 months before him being free to sign with other clubs? If he's the one that wants to wait, fair play, but if he hasn't been offered a contract yet that's just insane.
  22. Sep 6, 2019

    Mingus New Member

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    Greenwood just came on for England U21's. Looks to be playing centrally behind the striker.
  23. Sep 7, 2019

    snowkarl New Member

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    He really struggles to get into games and make an impact.

    Nowhere near ready yet and it was an insane risk to go into the season with him as second choice winger/striker.

    Nketiah scored two goals today and is a far more developed player yet Arsenal did the sensible thing and let him gain confidence and experience in loan st Leeds which IMO Greenwood also should have.

    Hope his confidence is not permanently ruined if he doesnt score for 10 games and the pressure starts mounting.
  24. Sep 7, 2019

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    Dunno. Greenwood has looked quite good to me in his minutes for the first team. Except when the team is playing laughably badly and he comes on to have to save us (Palace). For me his touch and all round game looks good. Just seems like a player who needs to now play more
  25. Sep 7, 2019

    Seaman New Member

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    I think greenwood is too young for a loan in the championship. Its a very physical league. Nketiah is 20 and ahead physically and ahead as a player now. Greenwood should be playing u23 football and cup games to get a taste of senior game. Then next season a full year loan to gain experience.
  26. Sep 7, 2019

    Treble Full Member

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    I wouldn't judge his level on the basis of several cameos. The step between youth and PL level is huge, like say the step between the 100th and the best league in the world. He will need some time to adjust his decision making to the PL. What was working at U23 level - touches, runs, speed of reactions, etc. -might be less productive or even counterproductive in the PL. That said, I also doubt he is ready. We don't have other choices to fall back on though. So, we have to be patient and hope we aren't forcing his development.
  27. Sep 7, 2019

    SteveW Full Member

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    Just needs games. That's all.
  28. Sep 7, 2019

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    Last night Nketiah played the full game in his favoured position. Greenwood came on in the second and played out of position and then was moved into another position after Brewster came on. He appeared to be playing as a 10 and as a LW.

    When he actually played a full game against Cardiff and was able to operate down the centre more he was very involved and could have scored a number of goals.
  29. Sep 7, 2019

    Alemar Full Member

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    The conclusion is that OGS is not a good fit for developing young players (ie under 20 years old players) - he doesn’t trust them and doesn’t have balls to play them in position instead of senior guys.

    If he ever plays them, it’s a) always just as a substitute, and b) always out of position.

    So, what do we need to do?
  30. Sep 7, 2019

    Drainy Full Member

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    We're not even 5 games into the season
  31. Sep 7, 2019

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

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    :lol: wow talk about jumping the gun.

    He's 17, he came on in a match at the 65th minute in a position he's rarely ever played before (number 10 behind 2 strikers in a diamond)

    England were losing 2-1 and it was a chaotic match with very little control by either teams, and the pitch was bloody awful.

    It took him a few minutes to get going but he did get into the match fine. He kept it simple and passed to the forwards ahead of him, and Nketiah was greedy as hell, never once gave him the ball back.

    This wasn't a match for Greenwood to show his full potential, but he did a solid job for the team.
  32. Sep 7, 2019

    Red00012 Full Member

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    Sack Ole ?
  33. Sep 7, 2019

    ArmchairCritic You got pets me too mines are dead

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    As @Adam-Utd says it was a chaotic last 30 mins. My take was he was one of England's most mature players in that last 30 mins. He was tracking back, closing passing lanes, making good runs, passing to open players and just generally doing the basics well. It was not a spectacular performance but it showed the side of his game people don't always get excited about, he has a very good football brain. There was one moment where he was in a similar position to Lingard vs Southampton, driving through the middle in space with someone open on his right. Whereas Lingard ignored Greenwood in the same situation, Greenwood picked out Foden and Foden should have made more out of the situation.

    I also liked the bit at the end of the game where he tracked back all the way into his own box, won a header, chased down the 2nd ball, won the tackle with the Turkish player and then started a counter attack.
  34. Sep 7, 2019

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

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    Exactly. It was a professional performance.

    A few times he lost his footing and was skidding around all over the place as the pitch was so muddy, no wonder he decided to keep it simple.

    I genuinely don't know what people expect, there is already some weird rivalry with Arsenal fans between Greenwood and Nketiah it's hilarious :lol:

    If anything as you say I was more impressed that he adapted to a position that he's never played before very quickly. He was very unselfish and chose the right passing options. A solid debut.
  35. Sep 7, 2019

    edgar allan Full Member

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    I guess it is the unreasonable expectation that a 17 year old could magically step up, score 20 goals and save our season.
    It is the only hope we have to cling to.
  36. Sep 7, 2019

    Thiagoal Full Member

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    Having watched Greenwood a lot over the last few years, I disagree that his ‘best’ position is as a central striker! Yes he’s played amazingly in that position, but he’s equally played some great games as a number 10 linking the midfield and attack! He’s also got all the attributes needed to play as a wide attacker left or right and has done so to great effect for our youth teams!

    He’s just a 17 year old kid (an extremely mature one at that) and any first team minutes this season will be great for him. Last night he was playing in an age group four years ahead of him- how many of the England U17’s has the majority on here even heard of?

    His trajectory is crazy so far, give the lad time and patience because I have a feeling in four years he could be one of the greatest in the world
  37. Sep 7, 2019

    SteveW Full Member

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    He can play any attacking position. He's two footed, fast, technically complete. Just needs games.
  38. Sep 7, 2019

    edgar allan Full Member

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    Very true, sadly however we have only one forward at the club this year and he will be under pressure to perform at senior level.
  39. Sep 7, 2019

    Thiagoal Full Member

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    Yeah! Crazy that we didn’t bring in an experienced striker- although Rashford and Martial need to take the burden not a 17 year old kid
  40. Sep 7, 2019

    edgar allan Full Member

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    Sure we know that both are hugely inconsistent and injuries are inevitable.