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2019-20 Performances


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Fortitude

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Sure he isn't slow or weak, but he wasn't one of the fastest or strongest forward around during his premier league days.
Aguero has a ridiculously low centre of gravity with a powerful core, which makes him nightmarishly difficult to fairly knock off the ball and is still explosive over 5 yards.

In his younger days he was arguably the fastest over [very] short sprints in the game alongside Messi.
 

Strelok

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I don't recall Augero, probably one the best striker Premier league ever had, is either really fast or very strong.
Imo Aguero and Messi are very similar type of player. Both looks small but actually strong as a bull and very physically resistant. They're not strong in the regular definition of strong but it's very hard for defenders to beat them in a physical challenge. Probably it's because of their tough legs and great balance with low center of gravity.

And that combines with their crazy acceleration, agility, dribbling, the ability to change direction at high speed is what make them so unique imo. In contrast to popular belief, Messi doesn't have a great pace. But his acceleration with the ball is just terrifying. Same thing with Aguero.

Mason is just not that type of player.

Really? I thought Aguero was very fast in his younger days and is still very strong and nimble on the ball.
Aguero has a ridiculously low centre of gravity with a powerful core, which makes him nightmarishly difficult to fairly knock off the ball and is still explosive over 5 yards.

In his younger days he was arguably the fastest over [very] short sprints in the game alongside Messi.
Can't agree more.
 
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King_Cantona07

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Mason is not the kind of player who need pace, he is more reliant on trickery to get away from players combined with his short bursts of run. All his moves are focused on generating a small gap to get the shot away, goal against Norwich is a proof for this. He does step over, shifts left and the moment he saw a gap got his shot away. His striking technique is very much like RVP and feels he is more technically capable when running with ball than a young RVP. Future star in the making.
 

RedRonaldo

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Imo Aguero and Messi are very similar type of player. Both looks small but actually strong as a bull and very physically resistant. They're not strong in the regular definition of strong but it's very hard for defenders to beat them in a physical challenge. Probably it's because of their tough legs and great balance with low center of gravity.

And that combines with their crazy acceleration, agility, dribbling, the ability to change direction at high speed is what make them so unique imo. In contrast to popular belief, Messi doesn't have a great pace. But his acceleration with the ball is just terrifying. Same thing with Aguero.

Mason is just not that type of player.
Sure they are different type of players. But I don't see why we need to have certain criteria for forward players to succeed in Premier league.
Fast, strong, low centre of gravity, or whatever you call it. It doesn't have to be it, although with those players will usually have more advantages over others.
Greenwood doesn't have any of it, yet he already scored 9 goals midway through the season. Not a huge amount, but way better than 99% of 18 year old kid out there. He only rely on finishing and technique, and finding space to shoot at whatever angle. If thats what he has, and thats what he does it better than others, then its good enough for me.
 
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Strelok

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Sure they are different type of players. But I don't see why we need to have certain criteria for forward players to succeed in Premier league.
Fast, strong, low centre of gravity, or whatever you call it. It doesn't have to be it, although with those players will usually have more advantages over others.
Greenwood doesn't have any of it, yet he already scored 9 goals midway through the season. Not a huge amount, but way better than 99% of 18 year old kid out there. He only rely on finishing and technique, and finding space to shoot at whatever angle. If thats what he has, and thats what he does it better than others, then its good enough for me.
I see what you mean, and if you read my post you'd see I said that he'd be a 100 £m player one day. There are a lot great attacking players with average pace or acceleration. My point is he'd be much better if he's a bit faster and stronger. He's still very young, still developing physically and there's still room for this imo.

And tbh I'm a bit worried about both his max speed and strength in the future. Atm he's not strong/physical enough to play as a #9, and not fast enough to play as a winger (both pace and acceleration).

I don't mean to play down his talent, I just want to look at him as he is. It seems Ole has realised this as well saying this:
""He has grown into his frame, he won't get much quicker now so it's all about what's going on between the ears."

Hope he, Ole and the coaches are doing their best to help him on this. If he can get a bit faster and stronger, what a beast we'd have for the next decade.

should he bulk up and improve his strength instead? Maybe, but then he may loss some of agility he has which works well with his technique, and which enables him to find space to shoot.
Sorry I gotta reply you here, I run out of quota.

Yeah your point is pretty valid too. However I still believe a bit more strength/ pace/ acceleration would make him a much better and completed player.
 
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nokillingmoths

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Kane isn't that fast and looked useless until het got into his 20s. Greenwood is miles ahead and is still developing physically. I have very few worries about him becoming an important first team player at this point.
 

mancan92

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I don't recall Augero, probably one the best striker Premier league ever had, is either really fast or very strong.
Huh? Aguero is a ridiculously strong runner. In his younger years he beat defenders in pure power.
 

RedRonaldo

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I see what you mean, and if you read my post you'd see I said that he'd be a 100 £m player one day. There are a lot great attacking players with average pace or acceleration. My point is he'd be much better if he's a bit faster and stronger. He's still very young, still developing physically and there's still room for this imo.

And tbh I'm a bit worried about both his max speed and strength in the future. Atm he's not strong/physical enough to play as a #9, and not fast enough to play as a winger (both pace and acceleration).

I don't mean to play down his talent, I just want to look at him as he is. It seems Ole has realised this as well saying this:
""He has grown into his frame, he won't get much quicker now so it's all about what's going on between the ears."

Hope he, Ole and the coaches are doing their best to help him on this. If he can get a bit faster and stronger, what a beast we'd have for the next decade.
Well if he has the pace, he may not have the finishing or technique, you just can't have it all, unless the player is Ronaldo or Messi.
I don't really think he can develop pace in future, its just not there and no training can improve it, should he bulk up and improve his strength instead? Maybe, but then he may loss some of agility he has which works well with his technique, and which enables him to find space to shoot.

I'd rather he keeps on working what he does best, - finishing, technique, finding space to shoot, keeping his composure, but at the same time he could also develop more physicality, stay more fit, and learn more about movement, getting wiser with decision making etc thats about it. He is only a teenager afterall, there are still plenty of room for improvement, but pace and strength just isn't those which suit him best. And I just don't see why he has to mould himself into something he isn't good at.
 

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On the subject of his pace, I don't think we've seen enough yet to truly form a definitive opinion on it. He has just recently become an adult, 18 years of age.

I remember reading what his youth coach said about him, and to quote the following article:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/10570399/mason-greenwood-man-utd/

"I think he’s his own man. I’ve not seen another player like him. His style means his pace is deceptive because he is absolutely rapid."
“I think he turned up at a Great Britain under-13 100m sprint race and broke the Great Britain record."
"All the athletics people were after him at one point. Athletically he’s unbelievable.”

You don't just lose that natural athleticism suddenly, I just think it's more a case he hasn't shown it yet.

@Adnan ....if I'm correct you've mentioned that you've seen/known him from a very young age. Perhaps you could give your opinion on it?
 

Adnan

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On the subject of his pace, I don't think we've seen enough yet to truly form a definitive opinion on it. He has just recently become an adult, 18 years of age.

I remember reading what his youth coach said about him, and to quote the following article:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/10570399/mason-greenwood-man-utd/

"I think he’s his own man. I’ve not seen another player like him. His style means his pace is deceptive because he is absolutely rapid."
“I think he turned up at a Great Britain under-13 100m sprint race and broke the Great Britain record."
"All the athletics people were after him at one point. Athletically he’s unbelievable.”

You don't just lose that natural athleticism suddenly, I just think it's more a case he hasn't shown it yet.

@Adnan ....if I'm correct you've mentioned that you've seen/known him from a very young age. Perhaps you could give your opinion on it?
I've spoken about this in the past too.

Top speed and athletically he is more than fine, and he's excelled in that regard as a very young kid as you've quite rightly pointed out. But in football it comes down to the first yards and that is something he's working on to give him the explosiveness to accelerate away from the opponent which will come in time as he physically matures. We don't think he's stopped growing yet either so I personally think we will see a more dangerous player in the next 12 to 18 months as he physically matures.
 

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He will inevitable end up playing upfront, his best attributes are there and I think we are kind of wasting him by playing him as a winger but right now he's not quite ready to start so its a good place for him to get minutes. I rather give him the RW spot than use James instead who has no end product.
 
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Hate to be that guy. He's young and he'll improve and he is one of the most fantastic prospect in the club but that was far from the level of standard we need to see at the club. Apart from one lay off to Martial he was hiding during the game, doesn't fill me with much confidence to start against Liverpool just yet.
 

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Hate to be that guy. He's young and he'll improve and he is one of the most fantastic prospect in the club but that was far from the level of standard we need to see at the club. Apart from one lay off to Martial he was hiding during the game, doesn't fill me with much confidence to start against Liverpool just yet.
‘Hiding is maybe a bit of a strong word but I get what you mean.

I wouldn’t even say it’s just this game. He always seems to be on the periphery of a game. He’s like not really involved. If you’re gonna pop up with a goal as he usuallly does then cool but kinda feel like he needs to be more involved in our build up and stuff.

Hopefully eventually it’ll come as he is still very young and he looks an incredible talent. Just want to see more involvement and command in his position.
 

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I don’t think he was hiding, he just couldn’t get into the game today. it just seemed to pass him by. Remains a fantastic prospect and a great finisher. Still developing so go easy.
 

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Not sure if it was tactical but he seemed relucntant to run behind the defenders unlike James. He was more of a winger today, and was quiet. But I still feel he's way more of a threat on the ball than James.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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Quiet game from Mason today, but thats to be expected. The one crticism I have of him though is his casual nature. I understand thats his style and it probably wont change, but I want to see him a bit busier. Pressing, running off the ball, etc. Other than that, he's probably surpassed everyone's expectations this season.
 

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Think a mixture of starts and subs is exactly what he needs. Think I've seen some calls for him to be an automatic starter from some, which I think is a bit much too soon.
 

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Hate to be that guy. He's young and he'll improve and he is one of the most fantastic prospect in the club but that was far from the level of standard we need to see at the club. Apart from one lay off to Martial he was hiding during the game, doesn't fill me with much confidence to start against Liverpool just yet.
I mean he's just turned 18 a few months ago. How many strikers are in their peak in terms of level of standard required by then? The inconsistency is going to happen
 

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He seems to have a much bigger impact coming on as a sub than as a starter. Still got some way to go before he'll become a first team regular. Plenty of time for him to do that, of course.
 
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He had a tough game - that to be expected, and will be good for him. He will learn from these games, where he struggled to have an effect, and use the experience to improve. Wolves are a good team, Utd didn’t have many good opportunities.

Let’s move on.
 

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Watch the game again and focus on his movement when United attack; he’s literally a ghost to the defenders, but also the primitives in red who constantly ignore him.

A few occasions Martial and Fred shot rather than find him in space; if he’s playing with De Bruyne, Silva, Eriksen etc he gets 3 clear chances in the box, of which he’ll likely score 2.

Should be playing as a #10 and gradually #9, rather than wide; he’s like a Van Persie/Rivaldo type player, and most of his best work will be done within the width of the 18 yard box.

What’s impressed me most is that he’s acknowledged his physical limitations at senior level, so keeps the ball moving rather than inviting - and losing - duels; once he fills out he’ll be fine, but for now he is doing the right thing.
 

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Watch the game again and focus on his movement when United attack; he’s literally a ghost to the defenders, but also the primitives in red who constantly ignore him.

A few occasions Martial and Fred shot rather than find him in space; if he’s playing with De Bruyne, Silva, Eriksen etc he gets 3 clear chances in the box, of which he’ll likely score 2.

Should be playing as a #10 and gradually #9, rather than wide; he’s like a Van Persie/Rivaldo type player, and most of his best work will be done within the width of the 18 yard box.

What’s impressed me most is that he’s acknowledged his physical limitations at senior level, so keeps the ball moving rather than inviting - and losing - duels; once he fills out he’ll be fine, but for now he is doing the right thing.
Good analysis. His movement is superb. Got a bit desperate at times and mistimed some runs. Without more of an involvement on the ball, it seemed like a rather dull performance overall but I agree with your post actually, and to me he is a striker and a lot of great strikers did that ghost thing, invisible just up until they aren't.
 

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Watch the game again and focus on his movement when United attack; he’s literally a ghost to the defenders, but also the primitives in red who constantly ignore him.

A few occasions Martial and Fred shot rather than find him in space; if he’s playing with De Bruyne, Silva, Eriksen etc he gets 3 clear chances in the box, of which he’ll likely score 2.

Should be playing as a #10 and gradually #9, rather than wide; he’s like a Van Persie/Rivaldo type player, and most of his best work will be done within the width of the 18 yard box.

What’s impressed me most is that he’s acknowledged his physical limitations at senior level, so keeps the ball moving rather than inviting - and losing - duels; once he fills out he’ll be fine, but for now he is doing the right thing.
Good post.

He needs to learn to impose himself more on the game, but at the same time, he needs his teammates to see, and engage, with the clever runs and movement he utilises time and again whilst effectively being ignored.

One of the problems he has at the moment is not making a fuss when a clever off the ball run is ignored, and players his senior, completely bypass him and flub their lines when he has made a superior shooting opportunity than they have at that given moment. There was one run he made, cannoning up the field at full pelt from his own half whilst Martial went off on the break, that would have made for an easy lay off into his path had Martial not had tunnel vision and gone on to shoot himself. The worst thing about Martial electing to shoot there, was Greenwood making such a smart run behind the scuttling defenders, that it would have given him an open chance at goal from 12 or so yards out where he could've gone left or right of the centralised keeper with his shot and still scored.

One of the ways Rashford, and even Martial imposed themselves when getting into the starting xi was by being somewhat selfish and about their own shot or dribble than the ethos of considering the team and the best option first and foremost. It led to frustration, but it also earned them the respect of teammates. Greenwood could do with a dose of that, but he's such a clever player that he tends to bide his time quietly going about making clever runs and movements hoping to be picked up, and when he isn't, he just jogs back to his position and makes no gesture to intimate he's annoyed. He needs to put himself first a bit more at least until his teammates see him as an equally viable option to pass to as the more established starters.

I am inclined to agree that better passers of the ball who release it in time with the forward's run, would see Greenwood in a different light. For me, it's already pretty clear he'd do wonders in a very tight, technical attack and midfield as he makes deft touches and cute flicks constantly before looking to then receive further up the passing chain where his give and go attempt is missed and he's again out of the passage of play because those around him aren't able to ping the ball back or are reluctant to instead favouring the less ambitious option.

He has noted his physical limitations in the men's game and adjusted accordingly, but I think he's got to now adjust to a team and teammates who mightn't do what he wants at a given time and factor that into what he elects to do in a given position. Drive on himself a bit more with the ball; take a decisive action in the chain rather than be a rather passive/hopeful cog; commit bodies to him before releasing the ball. It's all within his capabilities and I think it's an avenue to earn due respect in half the time it will take whilst making all those clever runs and give go's and seeing them whittle down into nothing.

I really hope we get to see him in the same team as Pogba at some point this season. Imagine a midfielder who not only sees the runs he makes, but also has the ability to then execute the pass to put him in and make use of all the clever opportunities he carves out for himself that are then subsequently ignored.
 

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Watch the game again and focus on his movement when United attack; he’s literally a ghost to the defenders, but also the primitives in red who constantly ignore him.

A few occasions Martial and Fred shot rather than find him in space; if he’s playing with De Bruyne, Silva, Eriksen etc he gets 3 clear chances in the box, of which he’ll likely score 2.

Should be playing as a #10 and gradually #9, rather than wide; he’s like a Van Persie/Rivaldo type player, and most of his best work will be done within the width of the 18 yard box.

What’s impressed me most is that he’s acknowledged his physical limitations at senior level, so keeps the ball moving rather than inviting - and losing - duels; once he fills out he’ll be fine, but for now he is doing the right thing.
It’s a good post. Just to be a pedantic mofo I will say Rivaldo probably had his best season playing off the left for LVG. He hated it though.
 

Sayros

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I can understand him not imposing himself as much, he's a very young player who's just got into the squad and is doing his best to make the right decision to not be dropped and keep earning minutes on the field. He's gonna have off-games, but what a brilliant young talent! It's just very exciting to see what he's accomplished this season, even if it ended today. He can only get better with time just on his own, nevermind when the rest of the team improves and some creative play gets injected into the midfield.
 

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Quiet game from Mason today, but thats to be expected. The one crticism I have of him though is his casual nature. I understand thats his style and it probably wont change, but I want to see him a bit busier. Pressing, running off the ball, etc. Other than that, he's probably surpassed everyone's expectations this season.
While he's fit enough, he's not up to the standard of a top EPL player, he's going to struggle for endurance against a team like Wolves. That was a tough assignment for him, on the same side as Traore, I suspect the coaches are pretty happy.
 

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He seems to have a much bigger impact coming on as a sub than as a starter. Still got some way to go before he'll become a first team regular. Plenty of time for him to do that, of course.
Some would say he already is a first team regular, he’s made over 25 appearances—more
than Mata, he’s our third highest scorer(i think) one or two injuries away from being an automatic selection for the first eleven.

We’re not very deep. We saw Rashford go down today, Martial has a history of missing games... We have no one else to lead the line. I wish we had some more depth, but you have to love the impact he has made in his time.
 

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The most natural footballer at united.... period. Once he stops being a bit shy he will thrive big time. Will be regularly banging them in.
 

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While he's fit enough, he's not up to the standard of a top EPL player, he's going to struggle for endurance against a team like Wolves. That was a tough assignment for him, on the same side as Traore, I suspect the coaches are pretty happy.
I understand as the game advances he will get tired, however I'd like to see more intense running from him, both on and off the ball. Rashford did this when coming in to the team at such a young age. This opinion was not formed against just Wolves either. Its something ive said about him before. Other than that, as I said, he's been fantastic and surpassed expectations.
 

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I understand as the game advances he will get tired, however I'd like to see more intense running from him, both on and off the ball. Rashford did this when coming in to the team at such a young age. This opinion was not formed against just Wolves either. Its something ive said about him before. Other than that, as I said, he's been fantastic and surpassed expectations.
I agree, I just think it's too much to ask of a guy who just turned 18 to have the fitness levels it takes to do that. So he's pacing himself. But that being said he isn't that strong on the defensive end, and he certainly does need to get more aggressive there.
 

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Hate to be that guy. He's young and he'll improve and he is one of the most fantastic prospect in the club but that was far from the level of standard we need to see at the club. Apart from one lay off to Martial he was hiding during the game, doesn't fill me with much confidence to start against Liverpool just yet.
He's not ready to be a regular starter yet. No shame in that, he's 18 and inexperienced.

Rashford needed a rest and this was a good match to start giving Greenwood that experience but for the bulk of this season's remaining games it's better if he comes on as a sub an exploits tired defences.
 

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A goal every 85 minutes with over half his time on the right instead of up top is incredible stuff at 18. 2nd in the Prem for guys over 200 minutes.
 

Sayros

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This is his moment, I don't blame him for his performance today. He's going to get more chances now and may become a starter in Rashford's absence. Let's see how he takes this opportunity, so far he's done great overall with the chances he's been given.