It's his lack of effort, trying to take on too many players, losing control too easily. The coaches need to sit down with him and get it sorted out. Keep it simple.
11
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
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- Goals
- 12
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 2
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He needs to work on his awareness... use the options available to him.
But it can’t been all on coaching.. he should be talented enough to not try and continue with this faint and trying to shoot tactic. You’ve got the 11 on your back at 19. There should be more to his game than that.
Him and James on the wings tonight was difficult to watch.
I think if we finally get a proper right winger in the summer, then he should only play centrally.
I think if we finally get a proper right winger in the summer, then he should only play centrally.
The lad is 19, of course he is going to be inconsistent, he is already in his second season and a regular for Man Utd. When I was his age I could barely hold down a part time job at House of Faser! He will get better and better as he matures.
It's not a matter of being a classic winger, inverted winger, inside forward call it what you want, Greenwood's movement is not that of a natural wide player. Rashford plays as an inverted winger or inside forward. His movement is excellent for that position, but it's shite as a striker. Greenwood's is shite out wide. The proof I have that he's shite at now is that he pretty much never gets amongst any chances when he plays as a wide forward, he gets hung out way too far out wide, or gets caught too central without any normal balance. Far too often is on the fringes of the game when playing wide, or too deep and all he does is just recycle the ball back to a midfielder. It might be a similar skill set but it's a completely different application of that skill set, playing as a central forward vs being a wide forward, and nothing about him looks like someone who is a natural out wide. Greenwood's capable of scoring great goals out of nothing, but that doesn't make a good player. It's the old xG argument. Greenwood scored 17 goals from basically an xG of ~5 last season. That was always going to be unsustainable. He regularly gets among decent chances when he plays centrally, and that's how I think a player has potential there.
If they are getting involved in the right areas, and getting in good positions to get chances, regardless of finishing, I'd say is where his future lies. In fact a big similarity in terms of the type of player he can look to become I would say is Haaland. He's a forward who's strength is to be direct, run in behind and get quick shots on, or little bits of movement. No, he's probably not going to be a world class hold up play/creative striker, but that doesn't matter necessarily as long as he can do it to a decent level and he's shown appearances where he can do that despite being only 19. Heading ability, well he just scored a typical poachers header on the weekend didn't he? He's 19. How many 19 year olds are great headers of the ball? He's always had a willingness to run the channels IMO and especially when he first broke through what stuck out for me was the natural strikers movement, making the runs in the box that he finds himself into goalscoring positions, the quick instincts to take a shot, and of course the finishing. But the key thing was that he was a penalty box player, all his good moments as a youth player and when he broke through were the instinctive movements and finishes.
Of course, he's played out wide a lot as that's normal for young players who are in some way versatile, it's very hard to come in as a young player and just handle playing as a central striker right away. But that's still absolutely his future IMO. You look at any of his good moments as a wide forward so far. They've either been just random shots from range which is always a low percentage effort, or have come from coming centrally inside the box like the instinctive touch and finish vs West Ham earlier this season. Creatively, his good moments are pretty much just standard crosses after cutting back on his left foot into the back post. Being able to cross it well is fine, strikers need to cross it pretty frequently too. He is pretty bad at dribbling with the ball from wide and working his way into the box against a fullback and getting a shot away, ala the classic Ronaldo cut in and shoot. He loses the ball the vast majority of the time he tries it, it's always telegraphed, and it just looks very awkward IMO. From a central position he's much better at getting that half yard of space to get the shot off. He is bad at getting a yard of space to get a cross in from out wide either, but drifting wide from a central position is different as you are usually dealing with different amount of space to find yourself there.
Anyway, we'll see how it goes. I would personally be shocked if long term he isn't a striker, as I just don't see much in him to be a wide player but I see a potential world class #9.
Has slowly started to look more like himself in the last few weeks but tonight was a few steps back.
He was really really poor.
He was really really poor.
He deserved a slap for that effort, horrendous. That instance where that Kenedy guy tackled him, took the ball from him and he just jogged behind him was criminal. Who the feck he thinks he is? Marcus Rashford?
He was atrocious yesterday, barely anything went right for him. I feel he's too predictable, when he gets the ball close to goal, he does his little step over thing and tires to shift the ball to his left but inevitably looses it.
This is all expected btw from someone so young! I am by no means writing him off but I think a loan spell would do him good, especially if we buy a right winger next season which will limit greenwoods game time with us.
This is all expected btw from someone so young! I am by no means writing him off but I think a loan spell would do him good, especially if we buy a right winger next season which will limit greenwoods game time with us.
Bruno came up the hard way and has earned his elite mentality through the battles he's won.
Rashford has put a lot of effort into his mentality. He has mentioned before that he does a lot of reading about the subject.
It also helps that outside of Pogba they are out most all round talented mature outfield players so they can influence the game more with their mentality.
He struggled with being double and triple marked at centreforward.
Because he's a brilliant dribbler, he put too much reliance on that on that one skill yesterday. And let's be fair... onn another day - if he'd gone one way instead of another - we could have easily been talking about him scoring. It's about fine margins.
Not a great performance from him, but this is the sort of game he'll learn a lot from.
Because he's a brilliant dribbler, he put too much reliance on that on that one skill yesterday. And let's be fair... onn another day - if he'd gone one way instead of another - we could have easily been talking about him scoring. It's about fine margins.
Not a great performance from him, but this is the sort of game he'll learn a lot from.
I can see how winning a trophy can build a sense of momentum behind a team. However, we don't need to look far back into our recent past for a reminder that its not always so. We won the Europa League and the League Cup in 2017 and it had practically no effect on the mentality of the side. Look at Arsenal, Arsenal must have won the FA Cup three or four times in the past decade, it doesn't mean squat.
As you say, if you've got it between the ears you don't need external validation. Of course you want to win but winning things isn't a 'proof' of what you're doing, its a reward. The likes of Bruno and Rashford don't need to win a cup to know they can hack it. They know they can hack it and that's why they believe they deserve to win trophies. Its a completely different mindset.
I agree with you, too many of our players lack that mindset. For Mason its understandable. He is still a kid. With time and patience I imagine he'll develop it because he's a very good footballer and a pretty determined individual. However, I think your right to raise question marks over some of our other players.
Some players have a ceiling. I think of players like Quaresma or Ben-Arfa, outrageous talents in isolation. However, at the very top level they didn't have the mentality to thrive. Put them in an upper midtable team with zero expectation and you'd see some outrageous skills. The second they moved to that top, top level where winning is a must have not a nice to have and they couldn't do it. Pressure makes mugs of even the best of us.
When Mason came into the first team he showed a fearlessness and appetite that suggests he will not go down the route of flattering to deceive. We have too many in our squad who aren't like that though.
He was trying too much to get that perfect shot away thus trying to create space with too many touches and stepovers.
He had a chance at one point once he was in the box to shift it and shoot but he tried to drag it back again and got crowded out
Think he needs to keep going and needs to be closer to the goal than the wing especially when he receives the ball for a shooting chance
He was shooting outside the box last season too
He had a chance at one point once he was in the box to shift it and shoot but he tried to drag it back again and got crowded out
Think he needs to keep going and needs to be closer to the goal than the wing especially when he receives the ball for a shooting chance
He was shooting outside the box last season too
Agreed. Not a great game from him by any means, but every time he got on the ball he had 2-3 players closing him down right away.
Not a good day but one that I'm sure he'll learn from. Needs to become a little less predictable when the 'shift it onto the left' shimmy isn't working. Defenders are much more alert to him this season so no surprise he's struggled a little bit I'm sure he'll adapt and come back stronger. One thing I have been impressed with that I wasn't expecting (and correct me if I'm blowing up a few examples that I remember into something bigger) is he's displayed a range of passing that I never credited him for. Switched play with a long pass nicely a few times in the last few games and I didn't know he had that in the locker.
He wasn't really that poor outside of 20 minutes at the end of the first half where he lost possession in a couple of dribbles. He does seem to be getting judged by slightly different metrics though as James and Rashford do that every week.
Agree about his passing, been the same for a few weeks now, and keeping possession better too (most matches). He's improving in several ways for me, apart from scoring goals of course
Agreed - there will always be the odd hiccup but his overall game seems to be trending upwards. Jist need to get the goals flowing again! He's a great player to watch when he's at it.Agree about his passing, been the same for a few weeks now, and keeping possession better too (most matches). He's improving in several ways for me, apart from scoring goals of course
They get panned for it too! It's pretty much all I read about Rashford, until he scores.
Seeing the like you got on your post, I thought you got 711 likes for the post
. But I like your post too.I feel like it must be a coaching thing. Are they being taught to drive at the defender and then when close enough to bait a challenge try to shift it to win a free kick/penalty?
it doesn’t make sense running closer to a defender like that otherwise.
Ideally though they all need to work on their agility and changing direction when running, too many times they just run in a straight line without moving the ball or their bodies.
Hahaha - from Newbie to Full Member in one post!Seeing the like you got on your post, I thought you got 711 likes for the post
It's, without a doubt, a coaching/setup/system problem. None of our attackers have looked good this season and that includes Rahsford who has done fantastically to still deliver the goals. A player like Greenwood should be getting 2/3 clear chances most weeks in a top team and under those circumstances, he would deliver. At Utd this season he's lucky if he gets a clear chance once every 10 games. Now I know some will come in and say it's down to a lack of movement but it just isn't the case. Its been the same issue for Martial, Cavani, Rashford, James and Greenwood because there's never a consistent pipeline of chances.
Personally, I think it all stems from the lack of control we have over games. We are constantly scrapping and battling and fighting for every ball. When I watch other top teams that just isn't the case.
yeah I agree, something feels very wooden with our attack. perhaps that stems from the team being quite rigid itself, rarely do we have players breaking their lines. midfielders rarely make 3rd man runs, fullbacks don’t make gambling runs unless we’ve already switched it and there is space to run into.
this is probably why we’ve got a very good defensive record though, so I guess you have to look at results and say right now it’s a good balance.
I’d like us to be able to “let loose” a bit more though, especially in games like last night where the opposition gave us zero threat.
He was so hungry on his full PL debut, taking players on (succesfully), having good runs of the ball, using both feet. I hope really badly that it's confidence but to me he hasnt looked the same player this season apart from a few matches. The fact that we are in this position with an underwhelming Martial, Cavani and Greenwood is huge. If Greenwood and Rashford start firing from the beginning of next season, big things are coming I believe.
I think his all-round game is good this season. He's only 19, very easy to forget that. We just need to be patient with him. Rashford took a while to find his feet and he's now hit back to back 20 goal seasons, I've got no doubt we'll be seeing that return from Greenwood soon enough.
Not worried about him. Sophomore blues and all that. I am sure he will be back next season. Not everyone is Rooney from the get go.
The rigidity is down to the pressing, or lack thereof.
If you've noticed, whenever we press high and pin teams back, our forwards tend to make a lot more dynamic runs. The problem comes when we don't press high and use a mid block, or drop deep into our half. Then the question of energy conservation starts popping into the attackers' minds and thus the volume and (especially) dynamism of the runs reduces. It's no coincidence that the attacker who makes the most runs is the one who tracks back the least (Rashford).
We need to work on really pinning teams back to give the attackers the freedom to make sprints without worrying about having to waste energy tracking back into their own area. If you look at teams like Bayern that has attackers who make runs over and over and over again until they wear you out, it's because they play a very high line and don't have to worry about always tracking back 50 yards with every opposition counterattack.
The Everton 3-3 game was a good example of us doing this, as well as the Southampton game where we pinned them back due to them having 10 men. We need to work harder to make it a consistent feature of our game.
I havent seen anything to suggest he is a number 9 apart from his shooting abilities. Which is strange to say because striking is the main skill of a number 9 but he just doest move or find the space like a number 9. He isnt the best at holding up the ball with the CB's up against him, he doesnt make runs behind the defenders and he isnt very good at heading. Obviously he scored a goal the other day but it was a free header. He wasnt exactly challenging the CB. Maybe he will grow into it but he just doesnt scream number 9 at the moment.
Just wait for a bit more and the likes of @Ali Dia will be on Mason's back very soon. They will claims it's his fault that the club is so shite since Sir Alex retired.
Not at all. I do think the club needs to get the finger out and bring in some outside help in our attack to complement the academy attackers. I don’t think Rashford should be an automatic starter in every game he’s able to stand up. I think going all academy and free transfers is a mistake for a club of this size if we actually want to compete now. Nice post though. You’re hilarious.Just wait for a bit more and the likes of @Ali Dia will be on Mason's back very soon. They will claims it's his fault that the club is so shite since Sir Alex retired.
And you're not, your agendas are terrible and your posting style is 1st grade. Keep trying though.
dont.... twist the knife anymore... can’t take it
I'm very eager to see your "professional analysis" of Greenwood in 6 months or an year. You'd probably be saying he needs to be dropped back to the academy.
Well you’ve proven everyone wrong because Rashford is better than James. Your work here is done oh football geniusI'm very eager to see your "professional analysis" of Greenwood in 6 months or an year. You'd probably be saying he needs to be dropped back to the academy.
Yeah, but I pale in comparison to your world class footballing perception, it's only rivaled by Sir Alex himself. Who else would suggest that we are shit in attack because of our best forward (by a mile)?Well you’ve proven everyone wrong because Rashford is better than James. Your work here is done oh football genius
it’s lovely how you aren’t calling out anyone in this thread for saying how Greenwood was poor last night. Good for you!Yeah, but I pale in comparison to your world class footballing perception, it's only rivaled by Sir Alex himself. Who else would suggest that we are shit in attack because of our best forward (by a mile)?
Quarter finals of the EL. Epic stuff.
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To make this statement on his movement as a striker versus winger there has to be some kind of baseline acceptance of times when it has been particularly good or weak in either position. I am not seeing the separation that you are noticing - he looks like a player that needs to work on finding space and becoming more influential in general, on top of a need to find more decisive runs in behind. There is nothing to prevent him from getting on the end of things currently, I think the manager would encourage it, and yet he'd rather come to the ball as that's where he's comfortable. If anything his ability to get on the ball has not been very impressive as a striker, which suggests he's not finding space. Which may be down to a number of reasons that are not just related to his ability as all of our options have struggled there.
The difference is Haaland is a striker and there is no doubt about that. With Greenwood it is very much up for debate because he looks good when he can drive at an isolated defender, go either way, he's two footed meaning he can play either side and switch within the game, he's looked good in his link up play from wide even if it's lacked some cutting edge. Haaland's instinct in the box, consistent ability to score all manner of goals and physical frame would have left his coaches in no doubt whatsoever. I understand you're trying to make a comparison for the type he could be in your eyes, however Haaland is already that type and there is significant doubt that what you're envisaging for Greenwood is even likely. At the moment he is more like a Martial than a Haaland in my opinion, as he operates in moments, he looks better facing up to opponents, he's got decent pace if not explosive and he scores good goals rather than getting into the box - which I really don't think he is restricted from doing in his current role as I said. I think that's just the kind of player he currently is.
It certainly needs quite a big leap in development as not even our manager has regularly played him there despite floundering options, and I would think he probably subscribes to your view from his statements. That is an indicator of where he is at, and it's probably because of some of these weaknesses - hold up play, strength (I understand this is noticeably developing), ability to understand where he should be as a striker. Our squad composition will also play a part, we have Cavani and Martial playing up front, and if another striker is purchased as expected Greenwoods playing time as a 9 will continue to be restricted and it becomes even more likely that he's a wide forward or at least a multi functional player. He could naturally develop into a forward over the coming years but in general I think most observer's would say it helps if you get playing time in the role.
Had an off beat game which can be expected.
Again the problem is how difficult it is to get in those attacking situations currently rather than his actual ability to attack. Let's be honest about this, as much as I don't think Martial is our no.9, the chances available for him to convert have not been there this season and the same has gone for Greenwood and Martial. Let's stop acting like these goal droughts are borne from individual underperformances and actually face the music. If we sign a world class no.9, that would only continue to expose the issue. Outside of Bruno, we have no real chance creation coming from the team. The chances Martial and Greenwood manufacture are usually from individual moves. No amount of pressing off the ball is going to change that.
For me, the problem comes from what our attacking outlets are supposed to be. We are essentially playing with 3 strikers, without truly having the creativity from midfield( outside of Bruno, who usually stays high) and our full backs; a system and style that hasn't really worked for us. Neither Fred or Mctominay have the creativity to create chances or move the ball quickly to our attackers in space and aside from Shaw our full backs struggle to get in good crossing positions, and even when they do, the delivery is hit or miss.
How can we really blame our no.9's for not converting or getting chances that other top teams are presented with? The problem is with the system as currently constructed and the personnel being used in key creative positions. Greenwood has been moving fantastically off the ball for the past month when in the no.9 role. It's a part of his game that he's significantly improved on without much attention being paid to it. If his supporting players don't have the skill level required to find him, how is he to blame? My biggest suggestion would be to push Bruno back into midfield and play a 433, so that we can at least gain control of of games and be able to move the ball quickly out of our build up phase. That is where we are struggling the most, and our attackers and defenders are somehow taking the brunt of the blame for this.
Again the problem is how difficult it is to get in those attacking situations currently rather than his actual ability to attack. Let's be honest about this, as much as I don't think Martial is our no.9, the chances available for him to convert have not been there this season and the same has gone for Greenwood and Martial. Let's stop acting like these goal droughts are borne from individual underperformances and actually face the music. If we sign a world class no.9, that would only continue to expose the issue. Outside of Bruno, we have no real chance creation coming from the team. The chances Martial and Greenwood manufacture are usually from individual moves. No amount of pressing off the ball is going to change that.
For me, the problem comes from what our attacking outlets are supposed to be. We are essentially playing with 3 strikers, without truly having the creativity from midfield( outside of Bruno, who usually stays high) and our full backs; a system and style that hasn't really worked for us. Neither Fred or Mctominay have the creativity to create chances or move the ball quickly to our attackers in space and aside from Shaw our full backs struggle to get in good crossing positions, and even when they do, the delivery is hit or miss.
How can we really blame our no.9's for not converting or getting chances that other top teams are presented with? The problem is with the system as currently constructed and the personnel being used in key creative positions. Greenwood has been moving fantastically off the ball for the past month when in the no.9 role. It's a part of his game that he's significantly improved on without much attention being paid to it. If his supporting players don't have the skill level required to find him, how is he to blame? My biggest suggestion would be to push Bruno back into midfield and play a 433, so that we can at least gain control of of games and be able to move the ball quickly out of our build up phase. That is where we are struggling the most, and our attackers and defenders are somehow taking the brunt of the blame for this.
I am not merely talking about the goals, and his all-round game is quite a minimum for the top talents to be fair. Almost all top-talents have good all-round game, that is kind of the minimum for top talents right. He lacks the X-factor at the moment, for a forward he just has too little moments in the match, it's all neat and tidy. He is less wasteful-erratic compared to Rashford in style I'd say.
He’s been distinctly average this season. Next season could be make or break for him.
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