Eriksen is very good but he doesn’t have the engine anymore. Midfielders stroll past him with ease. Mount doesn’t have the passing range of Eriksen but he has other qualities - better dribbler, quicker and excellent off the ball.
Mason Mount | Confirmed
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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First thing, Barella doesn't belong in KdB, Odegaard group at all.
Mount belongs to KdB, Bruno group than Kovacic, Gundogan, Kroos. At least from what I have seen.
The part I agree with is, yes Mount is in KdB, Odegaard type. I just disagreed with Barella part. Since you have no interest in that, i think we are on same page on Mount.
The idea of a long drawn out saga for someone like Mount has to be the biggest turn off summer ever.
Exactly so that was my main point and in line with the topic of discussion. We can agree to disagree on Barella my main point was Mount is more Bruno than Eriksen.
Tactically playing a 4-3-3 with Bruno and Mount is suicide IMO unless we become one of the best possession teams in the world or we turn into Pep's Barca or Liverpool of a few years ago that won the ball back high up the pitch incredibly fast.
We aren't a good possession side and while we do win the ball back better, I still wouldn't class it as a strength of ours.
So my main issue was being against the idea that Mount is coming here as a No.8 to be paired with Bruno as a certainty because I don't think that's true.
Sounds like Juan Mata when we signed him
How is that heatmap showing otherwise? It shows exactly what I said.
It seems there is a common misconception that Mount doesn't have passing range/not a good passer. He absolutely has the passing range of Eriksen, but he doesn't get to show it often when he plays further forward. I think Ten Hag is planning on replacing Eriksen with him, and his long range passing will be much more evident when he plays there.
Offer them 20m, take it or leave it. They have no bargaining power. He wants to leave, they want him to leave, 1 year left on his contract. If we walk away then they are stuck with him for another year, then we sign him on a free transfer.
It's not like he's amazing and we can't find other players elsewhere. Chelsea are desperate, we shouldn't be doing them any favours.
It's not like he's amazing and we can't find other players elsewhere. Chelsea are desperate, we shouldn't be doing them any favours.
And then get laughed out of the room
There are few who said Eriksen was signed as Bruno back up and for 10 position, he played almost all games as CM.
Whenever I watched him he played in more advanced role but that's only few games. I will go with what Chelsea fans like @TheMagicFoolBus says as they watch all Chelsea games and every minute of it. He says Mount played lot of games in deeper role receiving passes in deeper areas.
I don't know how it works, at least on paper it doesn't look good. I wanted CM who offers physicality as that's something we are poor at, so I hope we sign Rabiot. But just putting Mount instead of Eriksen should improve us, Eriksen is very poor at pressing and very slow, at least in the second half of the season after his come back from injury.
Yes, no problem. We leave the room and move on. Then sign him for £0m in a year's time.
Chelsea either take 20m, or get nothing and have to pay his wages for another season.
We don’t know that though, we’re judging on rumours. The club will know it’s expected budget
If you are going to play 4-3-3 with two 8’s who have to get through as much defensive work as they do attacking contributions, there are very few players higher on the list in the PL than Bruno and Mount.
People can argue but his stats clearly paint that picture and it is the reason why everyone wants him.
People can argue but his stats clearly paint that picture and it is the reason why everyone wants him.
Where do people think we’re going to get as good for 20m?
So nothing about his actual game? Figures
I understand though. I'm the same with several players.My mates who support Arsenal spent years telling me he was crap and overrated but then started watching his highlights once they were linked with him and suddenly they were like 'well actually he's not that bad'
Watch these
Sign him on a pre-contract, then offer Chelsea 15 million to take him off their hands now.
Let's be serious, this is a ridiculous plan.
If ETH sees Mount as his primary target (which isn't something I neccessarily agree with, but hey-ho) then he's not going to be very pleased when upper management report back that they're not willing to sign him for the upcoming season as they are unwilling to stretch past 20 million.
Then we move down ETH's list, and end up paying 40, 50 and 60s for whoever the next is anyway.
We should go further than 20 million. I wouldn't go into the strastosphere with it for obvious reasons, but we need to make a serious effort to get the prime targets.
I'm all for upgrading the overall quality of the squad, especially if it means moving on players who have underwhelmed or blown hot and cold like Fred. The arguments for signing Mount are the same arguments in reverse when Grealish was mooted. At that time, it was "Grealish is great but where would he play/someone plays in his position/he's not what we need". Maybe ETH is changing the system to have two 8s or whatever, but it also seems like we're after a good player just because he's a good player and not to fulfill any immediate role.
I know we all like to think of ourselves as financial managers but I think it's really not worth us discussing prices of players and what's worthwhile or not. There are a number of ways to reduce up front costs, spread costs out, turn costs into add ons etc. We don't know what impact transfer fees will have on our budget or what structure any fee would be paid by. Just hope for the best players. Mount would be very good for us I'm sure.
Two keys factors here
1. They don't want to lose him
2. There are plenty of other interested parties
Those two factors mean that you're approach would hold no water. At all
The same fans that are dead against this signing will all be quick to make their views known if we mess it up and he goes to a rival
If you give Chelsea another 12 months to sort his contract, I think he'll end up signing an extension. Poch wants him to stay and is apparently trying to convince him but the problem is it isn't life on the pitch that is pushing Mount away, it's a contractual standoff which Poch can't solve but if you give the club 12 months to resolve the standoff, I think he ends signing a new long term deal.
I hope he works out as well as Fred has. Although I confess his career here has been a little erratic.
What gave you that idea? The only reason Chelsea are even thinking about selling Mount is because he's not been willing to sign the contract extension. The club would absolutely like to keep him.
And it's not like United is the only option for a sale either. So far Liverpool's been priced out but if United walked out on the deal and Chelsea were to tell the scouse that the price is now £50M instead of £70M they'd probably bite without hesitation. Arsenal have been reported to be interested in him as well and there's even been some reports Tuchel would love a reunion with Mount at Bayern though admittedly that's a bit of a long shot.
There's no scenario in hell where United are in a position to say '20m take it or leave it" if they really want to sign him.
I've seen his posts on Mount and disagree really. The thing with Mount is even Chelsea fans don't agree on what his best or ideal position is.
Personally I'm with you, well hoping we go for Rice or Caicedo instead of Rabiot but we absolutely need that physicality but also need control to go with it.
I saw the post below in the Rice thread and think its useful here too. In the graphic you can see Rice and Caicedo are examples of players you want being deeper as they progress the ball well and efficiently.
Mount doesn't look so good here so again I'd challenge the idea that Mount is better in deeper positions.
Tactically I believe that Rice should be given priority just below the STK position. We only have one DM and he's 31. Casemiro is great but legs are the first to go and players like him will age badly. Think of an ageing Gattuso and Keane. They rather see red then being constantly disrespected by some snooty 20 year old something with pace. Rice will learn the trade from the best (ie Casemiro), he'll add mileage to the Brazilian's career and we'll finally have a CM that would be as hard as nails second only to the Ince-Keane duo.
You can only sign players on pre contracts within the last 6 months of their current contract, any earlier non club authorised contact is tapping.
Yes, and Eriksen is going to get still slower. I think his position is indeed what ETH is looking at with Mount Mason.
I am sure people might have talked about this before but I couldn't find it. Why is Chelsea letting him go if he is a good player at age 23?
You said he never drops deep to dictate. He clearly does this.
He’s been asked to do this far more in Eriksen’s absence. If you can’t or won’t accept this fact then I can’t help you.
So Bruno does drop deeper, can drop deeper and will drop deeper. Whether or not he can be the most effective deeper is a different question and one we’ve yet to see an answer to.
I personally think he’s better higher up the pitch if we can get him there but I’d not ignore what else he does and can do to be able to make that point.
Chelsea want to keep him but can't agree on contract terms.
Also think selling him who cost nothing would help their FFP position.
They're not letting him go, he's refusing to sign a new contract. There's probably players they'd rather sell ahead of him, but they need money for FFP and he's one of the players other teams are interested in signing.
No one is arguing that Mount has been particularly good this season though? Chelsea have obviously been a total trainwreck and yes, Mount's numbers have suffered (and Potter has bizarrely played him at winger at times for some reason).
Also I have no idea where that data is coming from - according to FBref Mount averaged 5.35 progressive passes per 90, which puts him 63rd percentile among midfielders and therefore not really below the median? The previous two years he was 93rd and 90th percentile - again, when he had a settled role in a functional side he was among the best in the league at ball progression.
That heatmap shows he's not dropping deep much, and if you remove the defensive instances you are left with very very little in our own half.
How long do you think it will take until he kisses the United badge?
So he is not worth the money he demands to keep him? Isn't it a bit of red flag for United? Assuming we are looking for a good first eleven material?
Unless of course, Chelsea is being stupid here.
If the club pursue this deal then I reckon it’s going to be a long period of negotiating. I can understand why Chelsea would put a big transfer fee on him, he’s a very good player, he’s a fan favourite and selling to a direct rival. What they want is pretty obscene though and we really need to negotiate down to around 50m which is more than fair for a player in the last year of his contract and when the selling club really need that money.
Mount wouldn’t necessarily be my first choice but I get why we want him so I’m all for the club for pursuing the deal, just don’t get fleeced.
Mount wouldn’t necessarily be my first choice but I get why we want him so I’m all for the club for pursuing the deal, just don’t get fleeced.
@Hammondo pick any of these as additional proof he can and has done it.
https://theathletic.com/4394253/202...r-united-midfield/?source=user_shared_article
https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/exp...ition-deep-lying-midfield/blt0fcb477304765dbf
https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...g-in-a-deeper-role-and-responding-to-setbacks
https://strettynews.com/2023/04/09/...no-fernandes-in-deep-lying-midfield-role/amp/
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c.../man-united-bruno-fernandes-news-26659646.amp
And finally from Ten Hag himself on film 4:15 onwards
https://theathletic.com/4394253/202...r-united-midfield/?source=user_shared_article
https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/exp...ition-deep-lying-midfield/blt0fcb477304765dbf
https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...g-in-a-deeper-role-and-responding-to-setbacks
https://strettynews.com/2023/04/09/...no-fernandes-in-deep-lying-midfield-role/amp/
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c.../man-united-bruno-fernandes-news-26659646.amp
And finally from Ten Hag himself on film 4:15 onwards
I’ve linked several articles as additional evidence that he can and has done this.
The difference is with Eriksen and Casemiro in the starting XI he doesn’t need to do it even though he can and absolutely has. So it’s not his primary role but it absolutely could be and he’d be excellent at it. He’s just even better further up too.
To suggest otherwise at this point is to deny fact and be delusional for the sake of a minor point.
FFP concerns too. Wipes a clear 50 mill at least off that if they sell as he's homegrown. And he's open to a move.
Juan Mata was old and, let's not forget, 3 foot six. Mason is taller than your dad and I bet he could beat him up as well. He also has a knight rider car but it's invisible so if you go to our house it looks like the driveway just has a Skoda Octavia in it.Sounds like Juan Mata when we signed him
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