Match Stats - Data Perspective

[tomaldinho1]

The difference between us and Liverpool in moving the ball through midfield is staggering- lucky for us, their forwards and fullbacks are a bit off form lately (thank god for Firmino). The way their midfield players make themselves available for the ball, how they move close to each other, forwards dropping to drag defenders- is on a different level. United midfielders (McFred) had average of 80% passing accuracy; for comparison Liverpool midfield 3 had average of 87%. Wijnaldum had over 86% and I consider him to be on similar level to Fred (much better technique but average passing ability). United have some serious amount of work to do in terms of coaching.
We seem to have no clue how to move the ball through midfield. Or we simply don't want to, I'm not convinced if that's not the game plan. Anyway, I hope we work on keeping the ball because I think it's frustrating for the players we're not able to string a few passes together at times- especially in first 20/30 minutes.

Nice analysis as always and this, for me, is where I'd agree we are really lacking but my fear is the bolded part is simply our tactics.
Ole likes our midfielders to essentially win the ball and immediately release it, Bruno is the main 'spark' here and I'd wager about 10% (or less) of his longer passes even reach their man. I remember Pep commenting on the PL before he came and saying the midfield in England does nothing (can't remember exact quote) because the game is so direct and end to end - Ole couldn't have a more at odds style with him and I think it's just too extreme. In the same way Pep is less fanatical tiki-taka now and has adapted more to the PL, Ole needs to adapt more to the sheer amount of pressing that now happens in the PL and we have to be able to keep the ball under pressure from good teams, you can see coaches further down the league do it and it is so essential against the bigger teams and in Europe.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Liverpool 0-0 Manchester United
xG=0,9 xGA=1,5

• 34% possession
• shots on target 4/8

Good result against poor Liverpool side. I don't see why we got lower xG score than Liverpool, understat has it 1,2 vs 1,2 which seems fair, but fbref seems to rate higher many half chances (Liverpool style of play).

• Fernandes has been pretty poor lately, I don't worry much and don't blame him but he's had a terrible game- 57% passes completed (only 53% in short passing) ; no dribbles won; did nothing defensively except for 1 clearance; dribbled past twice. Stats don't show how many wrong choices he made. The problem with him is that he's more dangerous for us (losing the ball in dangerous positions) than for opponent. It's basically the Pogba case from beggining of the season.
• contrary to my opinion after the game, Pogba was poor as well (offensively). 51% passing accuracy; only 1/10 accurate long pass; dispossessed 3x (top) and 5 miscontrols (top). He was decent defensively though: 3 interceptions, 1 tackle. I am not sure if it makes sense to play both him and Bruno at the same time.
• for a player who is considered a DM (not sure I'd agree with that label), Fred is quite easy to go past: was dribbled 7x (top, McTominay second). Still had by far the most tackles and joined most interceptions (with Pogba). To be honest I didn't see him struggling much, I thought he had a good game apart from a few technical errors (considered as misplaced passes I guess).
• McTominay had a good game, his moves helped us to regain some control after first 30 minutes when we couldn't get hold of the ball (as expected). Won 3/3 aerials; was the only player from midfield who was on "normal" level of passing accuracy (82%); second highest succesful pressings (42%, after Shaw). He is a good passer, his problem is he takes too long to make a decision. It's not the lack of accuracy that kills him.
• Fantastic game from Shaw. Looks by far the most in-form player right now. He seems to be our "safety switch" when we're in trouble and don't know what to do with the ball (which is often): most touches in the team, most passes, decent accuracy (77%, 95% of short), won all 3 headers, most recoveries.

The difference between us and Liverpool in moving the ball through midfield is staggering- lucky for us, their forwards and fullbacks are a bit off form lately (thank god for Firmino). The way their midfield players make themselves available for the ball, how they move close to each other, forwards dropping to drag defenders- is on a different level. United midfielders (McFred) had average of 80% passing accuracy; for comparison Liverpool midfield 3 had average of 87%. Wijnaldum had over 86% and I consider him to be on similar level to Fred (much better technique but average passing ability). United have some serious amount of work to do in terms of coaching.
We seem to have no clue how to move the ball through midfield. Or we simply don't want to, I'm not convinced if that's not the game plan. Anyway, I hope we work on keeping the ball because I think it's frustrating for the players we're not able to string a few passes together at times- especially in first 20/30 minutes.
To make the next step forward IMO Ole needs to stop tinkering with formation. It might be good for keeping all players fit, and this strange 4-2-----4 formation allows us to play both Pogba and Bruno together, but I guess at this point we need to consider if it's worth doing.
For example lets analyze for a while how we set up while in possession playing from the back:

Liverpool front three and two midfielders pressing high, which leaves a lot of space between back line and midfield. And this is what our front 4 does:

By the way, possible to draw wrong conclusions looking at the heatmap without context of possession: front 3 for both teams- looks like it's actually Liverpool forwards staying high, and United forwards dropping deep:

Overall I think description of Bruno performance sums up United in this game: rash and naive. Liverpool had twice as much possession and passes (693 to 365), which was probably caused not even by lack of ability to keep the ball, but rather unwillingness. It seemed like we needed to get the ball forward as quick as possible.

We start to look better defensively. Maybe not City-level yet, but I didn't have a heart attack every time Liverpool got close to the goal so that's a big improvement. At the same time we should be very happy sitting top with neither of front players performing well.
Still a lot of room for improvement for United, and we need to improve because we've been sliding lately, fine margins.

Allison probably their man of the match but Thiago was also very good for them, Fred was dribbled past by him lot. Fred offered more in his passing than McTominay in that match in my opinion. I think Pogba was good but not in his final third.

The game plan was probably trying to exploit Henderson by using Rashford's pace to make run in between the defenders. Not only the final passes were shocking, some of the passes were too overpowered and some were not enough pace which easily intercepted. Rashford also being caught offside too many times not helping. Overall, I wasn't too happy with the 0-0 result because once again our attackers underperformed in big games, it's like the same old story again. On positive at least we prevent Liverpool to take full 3 points.

I'm also surprised with the xG. I thought ours should be higher since Allison made crucial 2 saves while DDG almost did nothing in that match except for the Thiago's long shot which equivalent to Bruno's free kick.

 

[Withnail]

Allison probably their man of the match but Thiago was also very good for them, Fred was dribbled past by him lot. Fred offered more in his passing than McTominay in that match in my opinion. I think Pogba was good but not in his final third.

The game plan was probably trying to exploit Henderson by using Rashford's pace to make run in between the defenders. Not only the final passes were shocking, some of the passes were too overpowered and some were not enough pace which easily intercepted. Rashford also being caught offside too many times not helping. Overall, I wasn't too happy with the 0-0 result because once again our attackers underperformed in big games, it's like the same old story again. On positive at least we prevent Liverpool to take full 3 points.

I'm also surprised with the xG. I thought ours should be higher since Allison made crucial 2 saves while DDG almost did nothing in that match except for the Thiago's long shot which equivalent to Bruno's free kick.

They had a lot of low XG shots.

It was something like 17 shots to 8 so we had the better chances overall.

 

[Borys]

Nice analysis as always and this, for me, is where I'd agree we are really lacking but my fear is the bolded part is simply our tactics.
Ole likes our midfielders to essentially win the ball and immediately release it, Bruno is the main 'spark' here and I'd wager about 10% (or less) of his longer passes even reach their man. I remember Pep commenting on the PL before he came and saying the midfield in England does nothing (can't remember exact quote) because the game is so direct and end to end - Ole couldn't have a more at odds style with him and I think it's just too extreme. In the same way Pep is less fanatical tiki-taka now and has adapted more to the PL, Ole needs to adapt more to the sheer amount of pressing that now happens in the PL and we have to be able to keep the ball under pressure from good teams, you can see coaches further down the league do it and it is so essential against the bigger teams and in Europe.

Interesting. This is exactly how I see current United side- midfield job is very limited and I they do the basic stuff. It may have been the standard when Pep came but certainly seems like we're the only team from top 6 who play that way. This is more down to instructions and coaching than down to personnel (like with Wijnaldum example) IMO.

Allison probably their man of the match but Thiago was also very good for them, Fred was dribbled past by him lot. Fred offered more in his passing than McTominay in that match in my opinion. I think Pogba was good but not in his final third.

The game plan was probably trying to exploit Henderson by using Rashford's pace to make run in between the defenders. Not only the final passes were shocking, some of the passes were too overpowered and some were not enough pace which easily intercepted. Rashford also being caught offside too many times not helping. Overall, I wasn't too happy with the 0-0 result because once again our attackers underperformed in big games, it's like the same old story again. On positive at least we prevent Liverpool to take full 3 points.

I'm also surprised with the xG. I thought ours should be higher since Allison made crucial 2 saves while DDG almost did nothing in that match except for the Thiago's long shot which equivalent to Bruno's free kick.

Allison made all the saves which any decent goalkeeper is expected to save IMO, nothing spectacular. He had two good interventions where he positioned himself well/shot was straight at him, depending how you see it.

Fabinho was MOTM for me. Very good game from him in defensive line. Thiago was fine, he looks very good on the ball but I don't see him as anything special for this Liverpool side, they dominate game against almost every team anyway.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Allison made all the saves which any decent goalkeeper is expected to save IMO, nothing spectacular. He had two good interventions where he positioned himself well/shot was straight at him, depending how you see it.

Fabinho was MOTM for me. Very good game from him in defensive line. Thiago was fine, he looks very good on the ball but I don't see him as anything special for this Liverpool side, they dominate game against almost every team anyway.

Fabinho was definitely got it as well in my rating and it was 50:50 to me, I can accept that but keeper positioning is part of goalkeeper skills as well. This is why lot people said DDG's saves back in the day were straight at him when actually you need to give massive credit for his positioning too. I gave it to Allison because Fabinho's performance was down to our poor attackers.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Nice analysis as always and this, for me, is where I'd agree we are really lacking but my fear is the bolded part is simply our tactics.
Ole likes our midfielders to essentially win the ball and immediately release it, Bruno is the main 'spark' here and I'd wager about 10% (or less) of his longer passes even reach their man. I remember Pep commenting on the PL before he came and saying the midfield in England does nothing (can't remember exact quote) because the game is so direct and end to end - Ole couldn't have a more at odds style with him and I think it's just too extreme. In the same way Pep is less fanatical tiki-taka now and has adapted more to the PL, Ole needs to adapt more to the sheer amount of pressing that now happens in the PL and we have to be able to keep the ball under pressure from good teams, you can see coaches further down the league do it and it is so essential against the bigger teams and in Europe.

Yep, under Ole we pretty much play as a classic 90's side - looking to get the ball to goal as fast as possible. He doesn't really care about keeping the ball, he just wants shots on target.

Now that is fine if it's working well, but sometimes against a good team you can't just run up the pitch at full speed, or launch a long ball and expect it to work every time.

Every time we tried to counter we looked rushed and panicked, the pass always either over hit or misplaced.

When we did slow things down and actually tried to play some football in patterns, moving the ball backwards/sideways in triangles we managed to get behind their press and cause some damage.

I get that Ole still feels like the counter is our most effective weapon, but I feel like we need to be braver now to take the next step. We MUST become a better team in possession if we hope to do anything further in Europe or the league.

Learning to keep the ball will also help us ride out moments of pressure, there's no way Liverpool should have had 30 minutes or non stop possession against us - but they did because we didn't want to keep the ball and take the sting away.

It's this niavety that is probably why we've lost the bigger matches recently. Against teams that can't hold the ball that style works OK, but the best teams like City/Liverpool just don't give it up and win it back too well in high positions.

 

[Withnail]

Yep, under Ole we pretty much play as a classic 90's side - looking to get the ball to goal as fast as possible. He doesn't really care about keeping the ball, he just wants shots on target.

Now that is fine if it's working well, but sometimes against a good team you can't just run up the pitch at full speed, or launch a long ball and expect it to work every time.

Every time we tried to counter we looked rushed and panicked, the pass always either over hit or misplaced.

When we did slow things down and actually tried to play some football in patterns, moving the ball backwards/sideways in triangles we managed to get behind their press and cause some damage.

I get that Ole still feels like the counter is our most effective weapon, but I feel like we need to be braver now to take the next step. We MUST become a better team in possession if we hope to do anything further in Europe or the league.

Learning to keep the ball will also help us ride out moments of pressure, there's no way Liverpool should have had 30 minutes or non stop possession against us - but they did because we didn't want to keep the ball and take the sting away.

It's this niavety that is probably why we've lost the bigger matches recently. Against teams that can't hold the ball that style works OK, but the best teams like City/Liverpool just don't give it up and win it back too well in high positions.

What were these big games we lost where we had feck all possession?

 

[Adam-Utd]

What were these big games we lost where we had feck all possession?

City 2 weeks ago?

Chelsea FA cup?

I'm sure there's plenty more - it's not a strange thing to say as we usually don't aim to keep possession and just look to reach the goal ASAP.

I think this is also why DVB hasn't had much of a look in.

 

[Physiocrat]

Yep, under Ole we pretty much play as a classic 90's side - looking to get the ball to goal as fast as possible. He doesn't really care about keeping the ball, he just wants shots on target.

Now that is fine if it's working well, but sometimes against a good team you can't just run up the pitch at full speed, or launch a long ball and expect it to work every time.

Every time we tried to counter we looked rushed and panicked, the pass always either over hit or misplaced.

When we did slow things down and actually tried to play some football in patterns, moving the ball backwards/sideways in triangles we managed to get behind their press and cause some damage.

I get that Ole still feels like the counter is our most effective weapon, but I feel like we need to be braver now to take the next step. We MUST become a better team in possession if we hope to do anything further in Europe or the league.

Learning to keep the ball will also help us ride out moments of pressure, there's no way Liverpool should have had 30 minutes or non stop possession against us - but they did because we didn't want to keep the ball and take the sting away.

It's this niavety that is probably why we've lost the bigger matches recently. Against teams that can't hold the ball that style works OK, but the best teams like City/Liverpool just don't give it up and win it back too well in high positions.

I think the main issue against the Dippers is that McT and Fred aren't the best passers. If the CMs could play good one touch passes we would be able to transition smoothly and quickly. That would been devastating against Liverpool if we could have done that. It wouldn't have been as disjointed as it was on Sunday.

 

[cyril C]

Fabinho was definitely got it as well in my rating and it was 50:50 to me, I can accept that but keeper positioning is part of goalkeeper skills as well. This is why lot people said DDG's saves back in the day were straight at him when actually you need to give massive credit for his positioning too. I gave it to Allison because Fabinho's performance was down to our poor attackers.

I would give a little bit more credit to Fabinho, he intercepted and cleared the ball so many times, simply by able to anticipate the flow. He was my MOTM as well.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I think the main issue against the Dippers is that McT and Fred aren't the best passers. If the CMs could play good one touch passes we would be able to transition smoothly and quickly. That would been devastating against Liverpool if we could have done that. It wouldn't have been as disjointed as it was on Sunday.

I agree, I feel the issue of our defence not being happy with a high line then means we have to over protect them with ball winners.

We should only really need 1 of Fred/Mctominay and then add in a better playmaker - but I think they're capable of much better if we aimed to play like that / trained for it.

It's clear the instructions are take less touches and make the forward pass whenever possible, but if we just slowed it down a tiny bit it would work better.

 

[Withnail]

City 2 weeks ago?

Chelsea FA cup?

I'm sure there's plenty more - it's not a strange thing to say as we usually don't aim to keep possession and just look to reach the goal ASAP.

I think this is also why DVB hasn't had much of a look in.

City are always going to have more of the ball than us and while I wasn't considering Chelsea as recent we had more possession that day (52/48).

When we lost away to Leipzig we had slightly more possession (44/56).

PSG at home we had less but it was even enough (44/56).

So no there's not really any correlation between us ceding possession and losing big games.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Interesting. This is exactly how I see current United side- midfield job is very limited and I they do the basic stuff. It may have been the standard when Pep came but certainly seems like we're the only team from top 6 who play that way. This is more down to instructions and coaching than down to personnel (like with Wijnaldum example) IMO.

Yep - I understand why we do it but it is so basic and easy to forecast. I think that's the biggest factor in why a lot of people think we are heavily reliant on individual brilliance over tactics. I don't think we need to evolve into some possession obsessed side at all, we just need to vastly improve our ball progression in central areas (not only using the wings) and also work on keeping possession in offensive areas (I'd love to know United's stats if you take away the back four just passing along the line, I think we'd be shocked how low it is).

What I find frustrating when fans analyse games is the usual response to any kind of constructive criticism is 'yeah but we won' or 'we must be good because we're top' but it ignores the fact we have been at our best when the original setup gets changed i.e. we concede and then have to rejig our team into a more progressive, risk taking setup and actively try to build attacks and score: Soton, Sheffield United, RBL, WHUM, Everton, Brighton, Newcastle. It even happened against Pool when we started so poorly. This is a bit of a broad generalisation but when we chase a game we look a lot better than when we are level and I believe it's because we have such good players across almost all positions, they are at their best when on the ball and playing offensively.

I'm maybe more pessimistic than most but I still think we're going to be in a real tussle to be top four at the end of the season because the 'bigger' attacking teams have all changed their approach against Ole now they know he will sit in - look at how Lampard and Pep played at OT and we took max points of them last season. We're in a good place but I think there's a genuinely great team lurking in this squad.

 

[rotherham_red]

Interesting. This is exactly how I see current United side- midfield job is very limited and I they do the basic stuff. It may have been the standard when Pep came but certainly seems like we're the only team from top 6 who play that way. This is more down to instructions and coaching than down to personnel (like with Wijnaldum example) IMO.


Allison made all the saves which any decent goalkeeper is expected to save IMO, nothing spectacular. He had two good interventions where he positioned himself well/shot was straight at him, depending how you see it.

Fabinho was MOTM for me. Very good game from him in defensive line. Thiago was fine, he looks very good on the ball but I don't see him as anything special for this Liverpool side, they dominate game against almost every team anyway.

I think it's more down to the personnel we have than tactical instruction. Fred and McTominay aren't really conducive to a possession-based game, whereas Pogba and Matic are, but they have issues with the defensive side of the game, especially against teams who press like Liverpool.

The issue, I feel, would be sorted if a proper DM was bought in so that Pogba could slide himself back in to the pivot and play his natural game.

 

[Borys]

Fabinho was definitely got it as well in my rating and it was 50:50 to me, I can accept that but keeper positioning is part of goalkeeper skills as well. This is why lot people said DDG's saves back in the day were straight at him when actually you need to give massive credit for his positioning too. I gave it to Allison because Fabinho's performance was down to our poor attackers.

I'd put it other way around, Allison looked good because the 2 dangerous shots were straight at him. I don't think keeper is MOTM if we only had xG=0,9 in that game, not enough to test him. I was more impressed with Fabinho, did everything right in dangerous moments.

Learning to keep the ball will also help us ride out moments of pressure, there's no way Liverpool should have had 30 minutes or non stop possession against us - but they did because we didn't want to keep the ball and take the sting away.

For me the bigger worry is that we can't keep the ball once we're one goal ahead. It's like we only have one mode whatever the score / game - get it forward, absolutely no interest in keeping the ball unless we're forced to do so.

I think the main issue against the Dippers is that McT and Fred aren't the best passers. If the CMs could play good one touch passes we would be able to transition smoothly and quickly. That would been devastating against Liverpool if we could have done that. It wouldn't have been as disjointed as it was on Sunday.

The problem is, the way we play with big distances between players and all 4 attackers high up the pitch, it'll require exceptional passing ability and we would still lose the ball a lot. For sure Fred and McTominay aren't good passers but we make it even more difficult the way we play. Often when the opposition knows how to press, there are no passing options because our players don't position themselves between the opponents, rather in certain positions on the pitch. This is very basic stuff, and that's why I think this team needs serious coaching. I gave the example of Wijnaldum, who is not a great passer, and yet the system Liverpool play make it easy for him.

I agree, I feel the issue of our defence not being happy with a high line then means we have to over protect them with ball winners.

We should only really need 1 of Fred/Mctominay and then add in a better playmaker - but I think they're capable of much better if we aimed to play like that / trained for it.

It's clear the instructions are take less touches and make the forward pass whenever possible, but if we just slowed it down a tiny bit it would work better.

I feel even if we played playmaker instead of one of Fred/McTominay, it still wouldn't change much as it's quite clear we don't want to "playmake", we just want to get the ball forward as soon as possible. I still see this as a system/coaching/instructions issue rather than personnel. And like you said, it would be great if we could mix it up a bit. We are too one-dimensional.

Yep - I understand why we do it but it is so basic and easy to forecast. I think that's the biggest factor in why a lot of people think we are heavily reliant on individual brilliance over tactics. I don't think we need to evolve into some possession obsessed side at all, we just need to vastly improve our ball progression in central areas (not only using the wings) and also work on keeping possession in offensive areas (I'd love to know United's stats if you take away the back four just passing along the line, I think we'd be shocked how low it is).

What I find frustrating when fans analyse games is the usual response to any kind of constructive criticism is 'yeah but we won' or 'we must be good because we're top' but it ignores the fact we have been at our best when the original setup gets changed i.e. we concede and then have to rejig our team into a more progressive, risk taking setup and actively try to build attacks and score: Soton, Sheffield United, RBL, WHUM, Everton, Brighton, Newcastle. It even happened against Pool when we started so poorly. This is a bit of a broad generalisation but when we chase a game we look a lot better than when we are level and I believe it's because we have such good players across almost all positions, they are at their best when on the ball and playing offensively.

I'm maybe more pessimistic than most but I still think we're going to be in a real tussle to be top four at the end of the season because the 'bigger' attacking teams have all changed their approach against Ole now they know he will sit in - look at how Lampard and Pep played at OT and we took max points of them last season. We're in a good place but I think there's a genuinely great team lurking in this squad.

Agreed. We don't need to become possession-based team, but we need to change approach because at times we have zero control over the game, and you know we're going to lose the ball in the next few seconds. No wonder we tend to do much better in second halfs when there is much more space and less pressing. This is room for improvement, even if we're doing really good in the league we must focus in going a level up in games vs top opposition - already out of 2 cups.

I think it's more down to the personnel we have than tactical instruction. Fred and McTominay aren't really conducive to a possession-based game, whereas Pogba and Matic are, but they have issues with the defensive side of the game, especially against teams who press like Liverpool.

The issue, I feel, would be sorted if a proper DM was bought in so that Pogba could slide himself back in to the pivot and play his natural game.

Well I disagree with every point you made in that post.
Firstly, still think it's more tactical than personnel (see above).
Secondly, Pogba is absolutely not suited to possession-based game and he is absolutely not natural in pivot role. Whenever he has a good performance, he plays all over the pitch with no defensive duties and free-role.
Thirdly, I was advocating using Matic more because I don't see any issues with his fitness and he is the best player we have to cope with intense pressing. Second useful player is van de Beek - it is quite telling they both are down the pecking order in any big games.
It's a game of opinions though...

 

[rotherham_red]

I'd put it other way around, Allison looked good because the 2 dangerous shots were straight at him. I don't think keeper is MOTM if we only had xG=0,9 in that game, not enough to test him. I was more impressed with Fabinho, did everything right in dangerous moments.


For me the bigger worry is that we can't keep the ball once we're one goal ahead. It's like we only have one mode whatever the score / game - get it forward, absolutely no interest in keeping the ball unless we're forced to do so.


The problem is, the way we play with big distances between players and all 4 attackers high up the pitch, it'll require exceptional passing ability and we would still lose the ball a lot. For sure Fred and McTominay aren't good passers but we make it even more difficult the way we play. Often when the opposition knows how to press, there are no passing options because our players don't position themselves between the opponents, rather in certain positions on the pitch. This is very basic stuff, and that's why I think this team needs serious coaching. I gave the example of Wijnaldum, who is not a great passer, and yet the system Liverpool play make it easy for him.


I feel even if we played playmaker instead of one of Fred/McTominay, it still wouldn't change much as it's quite clear we don't want to "playmake", we just want to get the ball forward as soon as possible. I still see this as a system/coaching/instructions issue rather than personnel. And like you said, it would be great if we could mix it up a bit. We are too one-dimensional.


Agreed. We don't need to become possession-based team, but we need to change approach because at times we have zero control over the game, and you know we're going to lose the ball in the next few seconds. No wonder we tend to do much better in second halfs when there is much more space and less pressing. This is room for improvement, even if we're doing really good in the league we must focus in going a level up in games vs top opposition - already out of 2 cups.


Well I disagree with every point you made in that post.
Firstly, still think it's more tactical than personnel (see above).
Secondly, Pogba is absolutely not suited to possession-based game and he is absolutely not natural in pivot role. Whenever he has a good performance, he plays all over the pitch with no defensive duties and free-role.
Thirdly, I was advocating using Matic more because I don't see any issues with his fitness and he is the best player we have to cope with intense pressing. Second useful player is van de Beek - it is quite telling they both are down the pecking order in any big games.
It's a game of opinions though...

Yeah, I was half having my lunch and half typing, so I perhaps haven't really put my point across well.

I think Pogba can play that possession-focused role (as he has done successfully for France), it's just that he has far too much to do due to the issues with either of McFred or Matic, and he requires a stronger support in that area. With Matic, it's not so much his defensive issues per se, as they are very good, it's just that he doesn't have the legs to play in that role to a consistent level at the top anymore. It's not to deride his abilities, because I think he still has it within him to play that role, but he can't play every game. We saw what happened with him last season and in his time under Jose where he was played every game and his form went to shit. He's now someone who can only play on certain occasions rather than every game.

With VdB, I disagree that he can play as the pivot. He's a 10, maybe an 8, but never a 6 unless in very specific circumstances. His passing and possession game is fantastic, but he doesn't have the positional discipline to sit in. He doesn't possess a consistent enough long passing game either. He prefers to float around that midfield area and play small passes off his teammates and progress the ball in a slightly incremental but nevertheless decisive manner. I feel we'll see much more of him next season and have bought him with a view to reshaping the midfield if, more likely when, Pogba leaves in the summer. Maybe it'll be a 4-3-3 once that DM comes in, with VdB and Bruno as the dual 8s, who knows?

 

[Physiocrat]

The problem is, the way we play with big distances between players and all 4 attackers high up the pitch, it'll require exceptional passing ability and we would still lose the ball a lot. For sure Fred and McTominay aren't good passers but we make it even more difficult the way we play. Often when the opposition knows how to press, there are no passing options because our players don't position themselves between the opponents, rather in certain positions on the pitch. This is very basic stuff, and that's why I think this team needs serious coaching. I gave the example of Wijnaldum, who is not a great passer, and yet the system Liverpool play make it easy for him.

I agree on the gap between the midfield and front 4. My narrow point was that we could play how Ole played on Sunday and do really well against the big sides if we could transition better. Yes it we would still have low percentage of position and a high failure rate but we would have had significantly more quality attacks.

 

[Borys]

Yeah, I was half having my lunch and half typing, so I perhaps haven't really put my point across well.

I think Pogba can play that possession-focused role (as he has done successfully for France), it's just that he has far too much to do due to the issues with either of McFred or Matic, and he requires a stronger support in that area. With Matic, it's not so much his defensive issues per se, as they are very good, it's just that he doesn't have the legs to play in that role to a consistent level at the top anymore. It's not to deride his abilities, because I think he still has it within him to play that role, but he can't play every game. We saw what happened with him last season and in his time under Jose where he was played every game and his form went to shit. He's now someone who can only play on certain occasions rather than every game.

With VdB, I disagree that he can play as the pivot. He's a 10, maybe an 8, but never a 6 unless in very specific circumstances. His passing and possession game is fantastic, but he doesn't have the positional discipline to sit in.

If we're talking opinions, I must admit from what I've seen Pogba is nothing special in deep midfield for France, certainly not something we should aspire to (at United). They will dominate almost every game, he's a part of that team but not a game-changer. It's a myth he needs to play with Kante (you didn't mention him by name but it's just popular at the forum) - he performs just as good with Rabiot and Matiuidi. Up front he's dangerous and effective, in deep midfield he is average. He's been good recently but I still maintain we should either play him in Bruno role or just sell. This "stuffing all best players in starting XI in weird formation without a real game plan" (unless going long every time we get the ball is a plan) should be temporary, not a long-term strategy.

On Matic, he's been doing very good playing every second game (once per week) this season. I don't see any issue with his fitness. We have enough midfielders to make 2/3 different setups, so far Ole's been adamant picking McTominay + Fred in big games, Matic + Pogba in less difficult ones. I'd go with Matic (sitting) + Fred (harassing) behind Bruno as first choice, McTominay + van de Beek behind Pogba as second choice (more like 3 man midfield).

It's funny you see Pogba as a pivot and Donny as the more attacking midfielder, while I think it's exactly the opposite. Pogba is not effective at moving the ball forward through intense pressing, while van de Beek is not a threat around the box - switch them and those issues vanish. Surely Pogba can do some things no other midfielder can do from the deep, the question is if it's worth waiting 10 games for this "special moment".

He doesn't possess a consistent enough long passing game either. He prefers to float around that midfield area and play small passes off his teammates and progress the ball in a slightly incremental but nevertheless decisive manner. I feel we'll see much more of him next season and have bought him with a view to reshaping the midfield if, more likely when, Pogba leaves in the summer. Maybe it'll be a 4-3-3 once that DM comes in, with VdB and Bruno as the dual 8s, who knows?

The bolded part is exactly what we should be aiming for if we want to improve our play and moving the ball through midfield under pressure. Sadly, this is something Ole doesn't seem to value at all. I can see why - we've been getting decent results (draw against City and Liverpool is OK). But if we're looking for improvement, clearly that's something we need to work on rather than doing the simple stuff all the time (at least against the big boys it's not good enough).

I agree on the gap between the midfield and front 4. My narrow point was that we could play how Ole played on Sunday and do really well against the big sides if we could transition better. Yes it we would still have low percentage of position and a high failure rate but we would have had significantly more quality attacks.

Definitely yes. And I still maintain we can do better even with that personnel Ole has right now.

 

[A-man]

I’m not sure how xG for blocked shots are calculated but Liverpool had 3 big chances close to goal that were blocked by Lindelof and Maguire.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I'd put it other way around, Allison looked good because the 2 dangerous shots were straight at him. I don't think keeper is MOTM if we only had xG=0,9 in that game, not enough to test him. I was more impressed with Fabinho, did everything right in dangerous moments.

Fair enough, I can accept that. I thought from watching it once we were very closed to execute our game plan which running behind and between the Liverpool defenders which we managed to do it but just Rashford's technique run were wrong which the reason he was caught just slightly offside and when he wasn't offside, the final ball were just slightly overhit.

 

[Andrew Richmond]

I’m sixty years old, love my football always have always will, but the whole narrative (bullshit basically) around the game just leaves me cold.

The whole double pivot, xG what ever the feck that means, low block, etc etc etc

Back in the day, 4-4-2, defenders defended, didn’t need one or two players DM’s to protect them,, two central box to box midfielders, two genuine wingers and two strikers. Simple game.

I didn’t derive a lot of joy getting out of bed at 3.30am to watch the nil all draw against Liverpool. It really was rather painful to watch, sadly as are many of our games. it just seems to me there are too many games which are largely devoid of excitement, 90 minutes of football with few goal attempts and on occasion none in target.

We take a positive from having the games two best opportunities, which is all good I guess should have stolen the 3 points. But the first 45 was awful. Over the entire 90 odd minutes we had possession for 1/3 of the game it was all very underwhelming.

I am not a negative person, but seriously some of the football we dish up is really dire and to get out of bed at some ungodly hour to watch it makes it even more painful.

I don’t know what the answer is and maybe I should just be thankful my life long team is in with a chance of winning the Premier League but I can’t help feeling I would like to win in it in style playing attractive attacking football But sadly the football we are playing just isn’t exciting or enjoyable to watch. Maybe it’s just me.

 

[Borys]

Fair enough, I can accept that. I thought from watching it once we were very closed to execute our game plan which running behind and between the Liverpool defenders which we managed to do it but just Rashford's technique run were wrong which the reason he was caught just slightly offside and when he wasn't offside, the final ball were just slightly overhit.

Yes, any tactics can be good if it's effective. However, sometimes the direct pass simply isn't on, and we just give the ball away cheaply because there is no other game plan.

Also, none of our forwards is currently on form so this counter attack tactics won't work for us like it does for Tottenham for example. So I guess another reason to find another way.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Yes, any tactics can be good if it's effective. However, sometimes the direct pass simply isn't on, and we just give the ball away cheaply because there is no other game plan.

Also, none of our forwards is currently on form so this counter attack tactics won't work for us like it does for Tottenham for example. So I guess another reason to find another way.

If it prevented Liverpool to get 3 points in Anfield, I wouldn’t think the tactic was the bigger problem than our underperforming attackers.

 

[Patchbeard]

I’m sixty years old, love my football always have always will, but the whole narrative (bullshit basically) around the game just leaves me cold.

The whole double pivot, xG what ever the feck that means, low block, etc etc etc

Back in the day, 4-4-2, defenders defended, didn’t need one or two players DM’s to protect them,, two central box to box midfielders, two genuine wingers and two strikers. Simple game.

I didn’t derive a lot of joy getting out of bed at 3.30am to watch the nil all draw against Liverpool. It really was rather painful to watch, sadly as are many of our games. it just seems to me there are too many games which are largely devoid of excitement, 90 minutes of football with few goal attempts and on occasion none in target.

We take a positive from having the games two best opportunities, which is all good I guess should have stolen the 3 points. But the first 45 was awful. Over the entire 90 odd minutes we had possession for 1/3 of the game it was all very underwhelming.

I am not a negative person, but seriously some of the football we dish up is really dire and to get out of bed at some ungodly hour to watch it makes it even more painful.

I don’t know what the answer is and maybe I should just be thankful my life long team is in with a chance of winning the Premier League but I can’t help feeling I would like to win in it in style playing attractive attacking football But sadly the football we are playing just isn’t exciting or enjoyable to watch. Maybe it’s just me.

I agree we have been dire in the big games this season, but I think the 1-6 against Spurs spooked Ole and to his credit we've only conceded from a silly Pogba error in all the other games against the 'big 6' since. Most of our other games have been entertaining though in my opinion this season, barring the couple where the opposition parked the bus (West Brom H, Burnley A). The many comebacks away from home haven't been good for the fingernails but have made for good celebrations!

 

[justsomebloke]

Thank you Borys, these analytical posts of yours are really interesting reads.

 

[Borys]

If it prevented Liverpool to get 3 points in Anfield, I wouldn’t think the tactic was the bigger problem than our underperforming attackers.

Underperforming attackers is definitely our biggest problem, question if we can do anything about it. Certainly we can adjust tactics though.

 

[justsomebloke]

Underperforming attackers is definitely our biggest problem, question if we can do anything about it. Certainly we can adjust tactics though.

What would you see as being at the root of Martial's and Greenwood's problems this season? Is there something different in the way we play compared to late last season, or tactics, or is it more a question of individual performance?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Underperforming attackers is definitely our biggest problem, question if we can do anything about it. Certainly we can adjust tactics though.

What tactic do you have in mind?

I think adjusting tactic is not very easy things to do in short period of time especially against Liverpool Anfield especially players who aren’t suit with the tactical changed might need time to adapt it. It takes time and it’s part of the evolution that I think Ole is doing season by season or months by months.

 

[Borys]

What tactic do you have in mind?

I think adjusting tactic is not very easy things to do in short period of time especially against Liverpool Anfield especially players who aren’t suit with the tactical changed might need time to adapt it. It takes time and it’s part of the evolution that I think Ole is doing season by season or months by months.

First of all I'd drop this weird formation with front 4 roaming. I prefer to have a structure than free floating formation because too often it means there is huge gap in midfield.
Secondly, I already mentioned which midfield setups I'd use: Matic (sitting) + Fred (harassing) behind Bruno as first choice, McTominay + van de Beek behind Pogba as second choice (more like 3 man midfield). Basically you need at least one midfielder who is able to play well under pressure.

From one side, adjusting tactics in short period of time is not easy, but on the other side what is the risk? We're not having any set first/second XI, we're throwing Rashford left/ right. centre, Pogba left/ right/ deep midfield etc. It's not like we change something and we risk breaking the flow, there is one simple gameplan against the big sides so I don't see why we can't at least try adding some structure to do that. If we're struggling we can revert back to going long directly to Rashford anyway.

What would you see as being at the root of Martial's and Greenwood's problems this season? Is there something different in the way we play compared to late last season, or tactics, or is it more a question of individual performance?

I don't think there is any difference in our setup. Martial finishing has been shocking this season but I saw him doing it for France as well, there must be something with his confidence or purely bad luck. A lot of bad luck.
Greenwood had an exceptional season, no way we should expect him to perform on similar level this year but honestly speaking I don't see a problem with him. I'm not sure why is he used so rarely. Still best RW option we have. At 19yo I guess he needs regular game time which he's not getting.

Again, I think we should focus on getting attacking players a run in same positions rather than chopping and changing every game. I don't see the benefit in that.

 

[justsomebloke]

I guess you could see a case for roaming as a way of maximising the creativity of our attackers, and escaping our positional constraints. But are the returns good enough? And it effectively splits the team in two - a very structured back six, and a completely unstructured front four. All in all, I share your misgivings here. Including (and in particular) if this is the right direction for the team to evolve in.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

First of all I'd drop this weird formation with front 4 roaming. I prefer to have a structure than free floating formation because too often it means there is huge gap in midfield.
Secondly, I already mentioned which midfield setups I'd use: Matic (sitting) + Fred (harassing) behind Bruno as first choice, McTominay + van de Beek behind Pogba as second choice (more like 3 man midfield). Basically you need at least one midfielder who is able to play well under pressure.

From one side, adjusting tactics in short period of time is not easy, but on the other side what is the risk? We're not having any set first/second XI, we're throwing Rashford left/ right. centre, Pogba left/ right/ deep midfield etc. It's not like we change something and we risk breaking the flow, there is one simple gameplan against the big sides so I don't see why we can't at least try adding some structure to do that. If we're struggling we can revert back to going long directly to Rashford anyway.

First of all, what you are suggesting is not changing tactic or game plan but swapping players which I’m not sure what Matic can do to make the difference to wins us the game in that match.

The risk is so obvious that we could lose the match.

 

[Borys]

I guess you could see a case for roaming as a way of maximising the creativity of our attackers, and escaping our positional constraints. But are the returns good enough? And it effectively splits the team in two - a very structured back six, and a completely unstructured front four. All in all, I share your misgivings here. Including (and in particular) if this is the right direction for the team to evolve in.

Our front 4 is always roaming, we have one out-and-out striker in Cavani and even he likes to drop deep or to the right. The problem IMO is having two attacking midfielders who have limited passing options and prefer to occupy similar space.

I don't recall any team playing like that on regular basis, but one thing which is guaranteed is we won't improve playing that way if we do it once evey 3 weeks and with forwards being thrown in different positions. We either do it regularly or don't do it at all.

First of all, what you are suggesting is not changing tactic or game plan but swapping players which I’m not sure what Matic can do to make the difference to wins us the game in that match.

The risk is so obvious that we could lose the match.

I'm not sure either. But I'm pretty sure if we continue with the same cautious and direct approach, our chances of winning games against top opponents are small. We are good at getting goalless draws against those sides (City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal almost) so I kind of understand why Ole doesn't want to take that risk.
We're playing Liverpool again on Sunday and there is no draw in Cup games though.

A few weeks back I was strongly supporting Ole decision to make Fred and McTominay our main midfield pairing, but it seems lately we've settled down defensively a bit so I don't think we need to be that cautious anymore - with both tactics and personnel.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I'm not sure either. But I'm pretty sure if we continue with the same cautious and direct approach, our chances of winning games against top opponents are small. We are good at getting goalless draws against those sides (City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal almost) so I kind of understand why Ole doesn't want to take that risk.
We're playing Liverpool again on Sunday and there is no draw in Cup games though.

A few weeks back I was strongly supporting Ole decision to make Fred and McTominay our main midfield pairing, but it seems lately we've settled down defensively a bit so I don't think we need to be that cautious anymore - with both tactics and personnel.

I think in order to move to much more risky approach Ole will need to do it slowly in the right time as well which like I said before evolution. I’m sure Ole is aware of that he needs to be less cautious later on in the future but I just don’t think the Liverpool Anfield game in the weekend was the perfect time to right away jump into less cautious approach.

 

[Borys]

I wonder what do you think about this:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I agree with some things (like United not pressing Liverpool defensive line, which I suggested before the game). Some points I don't understand, like " The drawback from that is that the backline to go 1v1 with LFC forwards. It was a risk #mufc was not willing to take very often. It lead to 1 or 2 dangerous situations with Salah." Well it was Shaw and AWB with cover from Pogba, Fred and McTominay so I don't see it.
" United were successful multiple times in winning the ball back through pressing the flanks"
Every team seems succesful in winning the ball from Liverpool, because they tend to play super risky game.

Some of those pictures show we've been caught off-guard/on the counter and it's micro-analysis which is not interesting for me. I prefer wathing clips of how it happened. Will take a look again at this, but reading those analysis through Twitter posts is a bit confusing.

I think in order to move to much more risky approach Ole will need to do it slowly in the right time as well which like I said before evolution. I’m sure Ole is aware of that he needs to be less cautious later on in the future but I just don’t think the Liverpool Anfield game in the weekend was the perfect time to right away jump into less cautious approach.

I'm happy with that, we're in decent position in the league. It's just a discussion what to do next, because I don't think this approach in big games is going to take us any farther for a number of reasons already described.

 

[Borys]

Manchester United 1 - 2 Sheffield United
xG=1,7 xGA=0,2

• 75% possession
• Shots on target 4/16 !

Have we really created so much to achieve xG=1,7? I just watched the highlights and don't see ANY clear chance. Looking back, our creative stream has gone dry a while ago. We've been losing for over an hour and never really looked like scoring.

• highest possession this season. Funny enough the second game in which we got close to that number was against Başakşehir 1st leg - 68%. In that game we were losing for 80', and even during the game vs Sheffield I thought they set up very similar - two lines of defense but not on the edge of the box, slightly higher; aggressive and pushing back. Basically it causes our game to collapse, we have absolutely no answer to that- 4 shots on target all game.
• We reverted to defenders having most touches. It's a bit worrying Wan Bissaka was so high - 2nd most touches and passes (Maguire 1st). I noticed a few games ago if we don't know what to do with the ball, we pass it to fullbacks.
• pretty much everybody was in high range of passing accuracy, as expected when teams sees so much of the ball.
• our forwards do nothing off the ball. You could see that with Rashford just refusing to track back, but the total numbers for all starting (Rashford, Martial, Greenwood) are- Interceptions: 0; Tackles: 0; Clearances: 0.
• Sheffield United has made 24 interceptions to our 3. Whatever we did was uneffective against them.

Very depressing game to watch. We really have no clue how to move the ball against packed defenses. The question I asked after the game was: are we really improving as a team? Or is it individual brilliance that pulled us this high?

Arsenal 0 - 0 Manchester United
xG=1,5 xGA=1,1

• 57% of possession (very uncommon against Arsenal)
• shots on target 3/14

Good performance from United. It seemed like we went for it and Arsenal were really poor, not aggressive enough with their pressing. We also won the ball many times in midfield which started our attacks.

• Fred and Pogba with highest number of touches, followed by fullbacks. It seems we play more through the middle with Fred, while avoid the midfield when he's not there. Both our midfielders had very high passing accuracy too (Pogba 91%, Fred 88%).
• We started the game in interesting formation with McTominay dropping into back 5, fullbacks high and midfield of Fred and Pogba. I thought we looked rather good and gained some confidence. Things changed when Williams appeared and we Fred-Pogba duo had a bit too much to do.
• Bruno, Fred and Cavani are players making most pressures. Clearly that's something very visible with naked eye.

My suggestion after the last two games is we should drop one forward and play one more midfielder. Crazy, I know, Ole never goes with 3 man midfield but I don't see much of a difference between Martial/Rashford form, Cavani is a bit inconsistent and Greenwood doesn't look sharp at all while Bruno is having a poor month. What we have however is in form Pogba who looks really good around the box and I'd like to free him up. And we should really decide where to play Rashford, because changing his positions every game seems to do more harm than good really.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I thought so, I thought we looked good against arsenal but the final third was the one killing us off. We created enough chances to win that, the xG shows we deserve 1 goal or more at least while arsenal didn’t deserve even a single goal. We also got ourselves into very good position to score but chose the wrong choice/decision in the final third which end up as opportunity wasted.

Cavani missing chances and Rashford keep making poor decision making when it comes to the final third the one that cost us not winning that match.

 

[Borys]

Manchester United 9-0 Southampton (who played 10 since 3rd minute)
xG=3,7 xGA=0,5

• 74% possession
• shots on target 13/23

• highest xG-xGA diff this season (3,2); second highest for the league (1st City vs Villa 3,6). Those high scoring games make goals-xG parameter make no sense because we're +5 only after one game.
• fun fact: the last time we've played this midfield of McTominay and Fred sitting behind Bruno was vs Leicester (xG 2,2/-1.2), before that against Leeds (xG 3,7/-1,9). We've scored 17 goals in those 3 games, and lost 4, total xG=9,6/-3,6. Even if we take under consideration Southampton playing in 10, this is very impressive for so called "negative double DM setup".
• we used a traditional 4-2-3-1 setup with two midfielders staying between CBs and Bruno.

They had a simple job of spreading the ball wide and intercept everyting that went into midfield. This sounds simple but gives us a great structure as there is always a passing option in the middle. They both have great numbers but I wouldn't read much into it since Southampton played in 10.
McTominay heatmap vs Southampton (Fred would be very similar but even more closer to the goal and on the left, his heatmap will be affected by playing leftback in second half though):

Now lets compare that to Pogba and Matic against Sheffield - another game where we had 75% possession:

This is because both Pogba and Matic have a tendency to float around (especially Paul) and they don't really play as a pair. Whenever we play them we basically play one man midfield and slow buildup.

• another big difference was Bruno staying central:

It's not clear to me what drives this change. There seems to be no rule, maybe it was because we had so much of the ball, but he was involved a lot and looked dangerous and back to his best.

• both Lindelof and Maguire were highly involved in our buildup play. Maguire especially was effective at finding channels to put Shaw/Rashford through on the left. Lindelof won all 4 aerial duels which is uncommon and completed 8/9 long passes. Interesting that Victor seems to be making more long balls behind the defense line than Harry these days.
• Special mention to our fullbacks, who had both their best game of the season. I mentioned it a couple of times already, we seem to involve them a lot but yesterday we looked very threatening every time they got the ball. Judging on the first half, Shaw was the most involved player in our team - 95% passing accuracy (short to medium), 6 attempted crosses, 2 assists. In my opinion early cross makes a big difference, because the team knows when to attack the box. Lingering on the ball makes the move break. Second factor is having McFred just outside the box make us more brave attacking through the wings, but this tendency has been visible for a while. Actually with Shaw and Wan Bissaka on current form, it makes even more sense to play conservative midfield.
• Scott McTominay had 87,5% passing accuracy (long balls only)- 14/16 completed. Both him and Fred had 88% passing accuracy in general, and they attempted some adventurous passess too. I really don't see how people are still moaning so much about them, I'd play them every game if they were fit. Fred passing between the lines has been impressive yesterday (as long as he keeps it on the ground).

No need to panick I guess Obviously the game was highly affected by red card, but we also moved the ball much faster and we kept good shape all game. At some point commentator said "Ole is shouting from the touchline to take fewer touches" - which is the right direction to break down teams sitting deep. We've been passing the ball way too slow in previous games, massive signs of improvement even if it was against weak Southampton side.
Thoughts?

 

[hungrywing]

Isn't the "Bruno-staying-central-dunno-what-changed-between-Sheffield-and-this-game" thing because in the Sheffield game he was trying to stay out of Pogba's way whenever the latter went forward.

 

[Borys]

Isn't the "Bruno-staying-central-dunno-what-changed-between-Sheffield-and-this-game" thing because in the Sheffield game he was trying to stay out of Pogba's way whenever the latter went forward.

This happens whenever we play 4-2-2-2 (basically against top teams recently). Vs Sheffield Pogba stayed in deeper midfield, so there was space for Bruno in the middle outside the box.
There were some games where we played without Pogba and Bruno was drifting around. I checked a few heat maps and no pattern. But it's interesting to see what happens next game.

 

[A-man]

I have also made the same observation. People claim that if we play Maguire -Lindelof- Fred- McT we will not be able to play attacking football, but it does not seem to be true.