Mateus Fernandes | Spurs player

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Fortitude said:
I don’t think that makes sense. Take all your thoughts and 180 them for the angles West Ham will be coming at the window from. Stalling, protracting, looking for any possible avenue to benefit themselves. When you’re in trouble and have bills to pay, you don’t leap at the first opportunity to pay them, you do your damnedest to find ways to find the least troublesome way out and hedge your bets. It can leave you in a deeper hole, or maybe you are blessed enough to be saved in some manner. Either way, those circling will have to wait their turn. Perhaps they can then whittle you down.
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I think a looming deadline that means you could have defaulted on your debts and guaranteed cash gives you something to think about. Perhaps the ownership question was always earmarked for this, so they would have always waited for a change in hands, still would have been nice to test the water.
Stickz said:
It’s probably hard to buy a player from a club thats ownership model is in limbo.
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Yeah, as I said above. Maybe that that was always going to happen.
 
Lash said:
I think a looming deadline that means you could have defaulted on your debts and guaranteed cash gives you something to think about. Perhaps the ownership question was always earmarked for this, so they would have always waited for a change in hands, still would have been nice to test the water.

Yeah, as I said above. Maybe that that was always going to happen.
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Yes - even more hope and prayer of a bail out. Such looming makes for even more delay, not less.
 
Lash said:
It's a bit frustrating that we let them get their act together with the ownership issue, feel like we could have snagged a bargain. I reckon it still gets done at about 70m all in, which does seem a tad expensive, but at least he's got the most time on his side.
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Or it could be that West Ham were never going to do a quick easy deal whilst the ownership thing is going on.
 
Zumbi said:
Or it could be that West Ham were never going to do a quick easy deal whilst the ownership thing is going on.
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To be fair, the money troubles preceded the Sullivan accusations. But still said that in the response, which is a shame.
Fortitude said:
Yes - even more hope and prayer of a bail out. Such looming makes for even more delay, not less.
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They are reckless owners to be fair, so par for the course.
 
In case we have his commitment and he wants to join, we can play a bit of a waiting game and see if WH become a bit desperate. Nevertheless I hope this does not become a saga
 
Escobar said:
In case we have his commitment and he wants to join, we can play a bit of a waiting game and see if WH become a bit desperate. Nevertheless I hope this does not become a saga
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This will drag for weeks. There is 20 million valuation difference. We can expect lots of negotiations and bidding. And, at the end, we will get him for 70 mil with add-ons.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
This will drag for weeks. There is 20 million valuation difference. We can expect lots of negotiations and bidding. And, at the end, we will get him for 70 mil with add-ons.
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Remains to be seen whether other clubs push for him. I believe WH need lots of money rather soon
 
Ideally you want him in for preseason which starts on 18th July so we've got a month before it's of any real concern to get this completed.
 
IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos said:
I disagree. I think it hinges solely on Zirkzee. Any revenue from Rashford will be treated as a bonus, like the sell on fee for Elanga. Worst case, he’s on another loan on deadline day.
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If the plan is to loan him out until his contract runs out then we will have to find a club that will pay his monster wage and that won't be easy and we will probably have to contribute to it.
He is not leaving unless another club match his wage and that is not going to happen so we may as well forget about getting a fee for him.
Don't be surprised to see him back in the squad next season
 
I'm not sure there has been a single quality link to us actually making any moves for this guy has there? Just a load of presumption?

I think he'd be a good signing but are we even past the considering stage yet?
 
Von Mistelroum said:
I'm not sure there has been a single quality link to us actually making any moves for this guy has there? Just a load of presumption?

I think he'd be a good signing but are we even past the considering stage yet?
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Have you been under a rock for the past couple of weeks?
 
Bondi77 said:
If the plan is to loan him out until his contract runs out then we will have to find a club that will pay his monster wage and that won't be easy and we will probably have to contribute to it.
He is not leaving unless another club match his wage and that is not going to happen so we may as well forget about getting a fee for him.
Don't be surprised to see him back in the squad next season
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If he goes on loan, if the club taking him pay £200k of his wages and we pay the rest, that’s still £10m a year saved. The other thing is, especially next summer, he only has a year left. You could then look at annulling the contract and him being able to get a 3 year deal elsewhere that’ll pay him more in the long run. The plus side for us in this regard is that as a homegrown player, there’s no amortisation hit like there would’ve been with someone like Sancho.

Personally, for all the criticism that goes his way (a lot correctly), he’s not Sancho. I do think he wants to be playing football. Money is a factor, but it’s not the only thing like it was with the freedom fighter. If I was to guess, I think he’ll go permanently this summer, but we’ll have to pay him a good chunk of the fee and maybe only bank £10m. Loan is the worst case. Worry is that it drags on to 31st August and leaves us no room to move.
 
Stickz said:
He isn't. You've just named two of the best midfielders in the world, that play for the best team. We're likely going to need to unearth a world class midfielder as clubs typically dont want to sell them.
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Yes, that was the point I was making when the comparisons were brought up.
Emerson could work out to be a really good player for us, he's got the engine, tenacity and drive.
Zumbi said:
Turns out all you need to keep caf posters happy in muppet season is a crystal ball and a Time Machine.
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Keyboard guy, it's just not positive. Have a good day.
 
VP89 said:
Have you been under a rock for the past couple of weeks?
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Actually yeah kind of. I'm in hospital where I've spent 9 days delirious after open heart surgery and hallucinating :lol:

Having said that, I've checked on here since I've been back from my 'trip' and couldn't see any concrete links from really reliable sources. Hopefully there have actually been some because I think he'd be a good fit for us.
 
Von Mistelroum said:
Actually yeah kind of. I'm in hospital where I've spent 9 days delirious after open heart surgery and hallucinating :lol:

Having said that, I've checked on here since I've been back from my 'trip' and couldn't see any concrete links from really reliable sources. Hopefully there have actually been some because I think he'd be a good fit for us.
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Well I feel shite. Sorry mate I hope not well and you're on a solid, smooth recovery journey!
 
£140 million! Jesus wept. No discount going for buying two players so? Not only no discount but both players priced at their absolute max?! Is that 90 million for Fernandes and 50 for the other lad? Or 80/60?

Relegated players! West Ham should be giving them away for 20 million each surely?? :lol: 100 million, typical United tax!
 
Ali Dia said:
£140 million! Jesus wept. No discount going for buying two players so? Not only no discount but both players priced at their absolute max?! Is that 90 million for Fernandes and 50 for the other lad? Or 80/60?

Relegated players! West Ham should be giving them away for 20 million each surely?? :lol: 100 million, typical United tax!
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We need to stop getting wound up from prices West Ham want. I bet we wont get Fernandes for the £80m asking price. And if we tie down summerville it wont be for the £50m asking price either.
 
croadyman said:
Maybe we should look at Baleba of last season as that third midfield signing alongside this guy and Ederson. I only say that because he's able to offer that progressive carrying ability that isn't really a strength of Scott. Mind you loved how Alex ran the game at Emirates so feel quite torn. I guess the other plan is bringing in someone like a Sangare who offer that defensive solidity.
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I'm reminded of this graphic of U23 midfielders' duelling ability that I saw a few months ago:
HF6m4HxaMAApCZH

M. Fernandes, Bouaddi and M. Sangare all come out rather well. Baleba not too far off.
 
Portugese_Magnifico said:
So 38m plus whatever we can get for Rashford, Zirkzee and Ugarte, hopefully a bit over 100m. Adding another CM, a LB, backup striker, in addition to the 40m for Ederson takes us to 250m spend minus the 100m is 150m net spend. Probably right.
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I think we will get some money from Vitek and Collyer (possibly about £20m) and a very good chance we get about £20m for Greenwood too.
 
I don’t like the idea of us having to overpay big time for Summerville to get Fernandes at an inflated but less outrageous fee. Sounds stupid and naive even if I think fernandes would be a decent fit
 
Zumbi said:
That pelvis injury was reported in the media as a persistent injury at the time. Make of that what you will.

That doesn’t change the original point though - that Camavinga has had a very poor injury record, and that we should be especially wary of that having already been burned by signing other injury prone players like Mount (because whatever his Chelsea record was there’s absolutely no doubt he has become a very injury prone player since that surgery).
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The only places I found referring to it as ‘persistent’ was AI regurgitating a Reddit post quoting AI, and an article in Yahoo! News Singapore. But there might have been others. There is a difference, though, between saying ‘he had a persistent injury’ (that injury lasted for a while) and saying ‘he had persistent injury issues’ (he was injury prone). What was said by player and club at the time was that he had mild to medium pains around the pelvic bones that didn’t go away for a while, so he chose to have an operation in April 23, and that that operation was successfull. So I think it wasn’t reasonable by July 23, to say either that he had persistent injury issues, was injury prone, or even that he had a persistent injury anymore. I’ve talked to a physio who said it seemed likely he would have follow up issues in other parts of his injury after such an injury, and I’v talked to a physio and a doctor who said that seemed unlikely or at least very difficult to predict. Needless to say, since Mount came to United, he has been a very injury prone player for a long time now.

What does this have to do with Camavinga? In a way, not much, which was mostly my original observation. But if we’re looking at Camavinga’s previous four years, he hasn’t missed 18 games in that period (like Mount had), he’s missed 58 games (according to Transfermarkt and my bad maths). Knees, knees, muscle, hamstring, hamstring, ancle, ancle, toothache. So apart from the toothache, I’d say he looks a bit injury prone. It would worry me for such a young player. On the other hand, Osman Dembele had a lot of recurring injuries as a young player, 115 games missed from 2018-2021, and he is not as injury prone now. He did lose 53 games the last four seasons, on the other hand he’s managed to become a Ballon d’Or and two time CL winner in that time, so maybe it was worth it for PSG.

I think Camavinga’s medical history is a reason for caution when checking him out and if negotiating, a cause to lower the price, but not necessarily a reason to stay away at all costs. For us at this point, however, I’d rather we went for at least a couple of midfielders with very good injury records, given how exposed we are in that area. This brings us back to Manuel Fernandes, who together with Ederson looks pretty solid in that regard.

@golden_blunder See this and my previous post to Zumbi if you’re interested, but I don’t wan’t to derail the thread anymore with Mason Mount.
 
Grande said:
The only places I found referring to it as ‘persistent’ was AI regurgitating a Reddit post quoting AI, and an article in Yahoo! News Singapore. But there might have been others. There is a difference, though, between saying ‘he had a persistent injury’ (that injury lasted for a while) and saying ‘he had persistent injury issues’ (he was injury prone). What was said by player and club at the time was that he had mild to medium pains around the pelvic bones that didn’t go away for a while, so he chose to have an operation in April 23, and that that operation was successfull. So I think it wasn’t reasonable by July 23, to say either that he had persistent injury issues, was injury prone, or even that he had a persistent injury anymore. I’ve talked to a physio who said it seemed likely he would have follow up issues in other parts of his injury after such an injury, and I’v talked to a physio and a doctor who said that seemed unlikely or at least very difficult to predict. Needless to say, since Mount came to United, he has been a very injury prone player for a long time now.

What does this have to do with Camavinga? In a way, not much, which was mostly my original observation. But if we’re looking at Camavinga’s previous four years, he hasn’t missed 18 games in that period (like Mount had), he’s missed 58 games (according to Transfermarkt and my bad maths). Knees, knees, muscle, hamstring, hamstring, ancle, ancle, toothache. So apart from the toothache, I’d say he looks a bit injury prone. It would worry me for such a young player. On the other hand, Osman Dembele had a lot of recurring injuries as a young player, 115 games missed from 2018-2021, and he is not as injury prone now. He did lose 53 games the last four seasons, on the other hand he’s managed to become a Ballon d’Or and two time CL winner in that time, so maybe it was worth it for PSG.

I think Camavinga’s medical history is a reason for caution when checking him out and if negotiating, a cause to lower the price, but not necessarily a reason to stay away at all costs. For us at this point, however, I’d rather we went for at least a couple of midfielders with very good injury records, given how exposed we are in that area. This brings us back to Manuel Fernandes, who together with Ederson looks pretty solid in that regard.

@golden_blunder See this and my previous post to Zumbi if you’re interested, but I don’t wan’t to derail the thread anymore with Mason Mount.
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That’s a lot of words to basically agree with my original point - that we should be wary of Camavinga due to his injury issues, and not assume they’ll improve because of his age.
 
We need to stop looking at relegated players without the context of how obnoxiously filthy stinking rich the Premier League is these days. There were close to 170 Premier League players named to world cup squads FFS. If you look Spain, Germany and Italy, none but their big clubs can afford the players many of the bottom 10 PL clubs are trotting out every week. Joao Gomes and Andre for examples wouldn't go near a Villareal or a Stuttgart. You can't look at players from relegated clubs as going out of business sales anymore because now relegated clubs can absolutely have legitimate players, as is the case with Fernandes.

If Fernandes spent this past season with Brighton or Bournemouth and had the same performances, 80 million would get us hung up on.
 
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Bit of a Segway but maybe with these wonderkids like Dembele and Camavinga, missing a lot of football in your early to mid 20s might not actually be the worst thing. It's fair to say Dembele has now reached his potential coinciding with him become more mentally mature and physically robust? A lot of the other modern wonderkids who kept improving and playing every game usually start visibly dropping off around 28/29. It may not be too crazy to think something similar may happen with Camavinga if he can get past his injury issues. I wouldn't be all that surprised to see him sign for PSG and look amazing if he does leave Real this summer
 
UTD_Since_1978 said:
If you believe The United Stand, UTD would be signing about 50 players every transfer window. :rolleyes:

Incidentally, whose place in the starting XI would Summerville take? Cunha? Amad? Mbeumo?
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None, and he doesn't need to. We can't keep giving 95% of the minutes to 13 players season after season.
 
Ali Dia said:
Bit of a Segway but maybe with these wonderkids like Dembele and Camavinga, missing a lot of football in your early to mid 20s might not actually be the worst thing. It's fair to say Dembele has now reached his potential coinciding with him become more mentally mature and physically robust? A lot of the other modern wonderkids who kept improving and playing every game usually start visibly dropping off around 28/29. It may not be too crazy to think something similar may happen with Camavinga if he can get past his injury issues. I wouldn't be all that surprised to see him sign for PSG and look amazing if he does leave Real this summer
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The overall atmosphere at his next club will be a major deciding factor as to which direction his career goes after Madrid IMO. I hate to say it, but if Dembele had come here instead of PSG, and didn't end up with Enrique as his manager, things probably don't go nearly as well for him. Thankfully it would appear the overall atmosphere at United has changed for the better, but at the time I don't think Dembele would have stood a chance here.
 
VP89 said:
Well I feel shite. Sorry mate I hope not well and you're on a solid, smooth recovery journey!
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Haha no no don't worry at all. You couldn't have known and as far as the heart stuff goes that's healing well, just had some other issues that have ended up keeping me in here but I'm hoping not to much longer now :)
 
UTD_Since_1978 said:
If you believe The United Stand, UTD would be signing about 50 players every transfer window. :rolleyes:

Incidentally, whose place in the starting XI would Summerville take? Cunha? Amad? Mbeumo?
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Ornstein broke the story of us being after Summerville and it’s well known we’re all in for Mateus so on this occasion they’re 100% right if going by the Ornstein story although may have just thrown together Ornstein’s story with our well known pursuit of Mateus.
 
UTD_Since_1978 said:
If you believe The United Stand, UTD would be signing about 50 players every transfer window. :rolleyes:

Incidentally, whose place in the starting XI would Summerville take? Cunha? Amad? Mbeumo?
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As we saw last season the forward players would rotate. Sometimes Amad was on the bench, sometimes Dorgu, sometimes Cunha, sometimes Mbeumo. That gives us proper attacking options off the bench to change a game (and prevents us relying on the likes of Zirkzee if he still happens to be here). Not that I think we're seriously in for Summerville.
 
UTD_Since_1978 said:
If you believe The United Stand, UTD would be signing about 50 players every transfer window. :rolleyes:

Incidentally, whose place in the starting XI would Summerville take? Cunha? Amad? Mbeumo?
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He’d take none. Say it with me “squad depth”

In all seriousness he would have to be a cheap squad player for us to touch him. Would make no sense going for him in any other situation
 
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