Mateus Fernandes | Spurs player

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Adding Summerville to the deal makes sense if West Ham is determined to get their 100m+ to cover payments, plus the fees can be manipulated to reduce the % southampton are due.
Add in Diouf for good measure, he looked good against France and I dont think Necastle are worth dealing with for Hall.
 
That’s the point though - they would take less with more favourable payment terms just like we might pay more with payment terms which are more favourable to us. So you don’t agree the price at the outset beyond a very vague ballpark - you negotiate it as you negotiate all the other complicated details. Which is why transfers can take a while to figure out.
Why would they take less based on their need for profit and the cash shortfall is less of an issue now? They're going to want to achieve a level of profit for the squad cost rules. How that's made up might be up for negotiation. This is all a bit myopic from the lens of United and not West Ham in my opinion. The favourable payment terms angle seems to have gone the new ownership pledging to plug the gap for transfer payments.
 
Adding Summerville to the deal makes sense if West Ham is determined to get their 100m+ to cover payments, plus the fees can be manipulated to reduce the % southampton are due.
Add in Diouf for good measure, he looked good against France and I dont think Necastle are worth dealing with for Hall.
Interesting angle. Don’t know if true but can see logic… West Ham could “save” a few £m.
 
Lash was saying surely you agree the overall figure and then move on to discuss how it’s structured. I countered saying that those negotiations would likely take place together because one affects the other. A team may be willing to take less overall if the payment structure is more favourable and vice versa.
Yes, agreed.
 
Adding Summerville to the deal makes sense if West Ham is determined to get their 100m+ to cover payments, plus the fees can be manipulated to reduce the % southampton are due.
Add in Diouf for good measure, he looked good against France and I dont think Necastle are worth dealing with for Hall.
I mean, you could do that for sure, but no one would ever take a sell on fee as part of a deal from you ever again.
 
Why would they take less based on their need for profit and the cash shortfall is less of an issue now? They're going to want to achieve a level of profit for the squad cost rules. How that's made up might be up for negotiation. This is all a bit myopic from the lens of United and not West Ham in my opinion. The favourable payment terms angle seems to have gone the new ownership pledging to plug the gap for transfer payments.

Because a deal may be structured in a way where they still perceive the finacial benefit of it, either in short term or the long term.That's the point of the negotiations - to figure all that out. Which is all complicated, and all takes time. Redcafe posters always seem a bit baffled by the fact that transfers can take a while, whilst ignoring their inherent complexities at play.
 
Because a deal may be structured in a way where they still perceive the finacial benefit of it, either in short term or the long term.That's the point of the negotiations - to figure all that out. Which is all complicated, and all takes time. Redcafe posters always seem a bit baffled by the fact that transfers can take a while, whilst ignoring their inherent complexities at play.
I'm wasn't talking about it taking time, I was suggesting how I don't see how it could be advancing when there's a gap in valuation. I was discussing what benefits the parties which is profit and cash (less important now) for west ham and us not "overpaying", which could mean different things. I even said in the post you quoted I think it will rumble on until someone blinks. Nothing I said is implying it's taking too long or it's simple.
 
I mean, you could do that for sure, but no one would ever take a sell on fee as part of a deal from you ever again.
Just dont make it obvious then.
65m on fernandes seems reasonable, 40 on summerville to - inflate that fee to 50
 
Sounds like Madrid are going in for Enzo
Hopefully leaves the path clear for us to get this guy, now whether it leaves door ajar for us to get Tchouameni too after World Cup is another thing
 
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Fernandes, and or Summerville, being sold within the next twelve days according to relatively reliable rumour on our (WHU) side.

No mention of destination - presume it's Man Utd.
 
Think that's quite an interesting point about getting both with an inflated fee for Summerville to avoid a sell on fee for fernandes. Would lower the deal a bit and west ham still come out better off.
 
No, I think you get a general idea of the figure needed, though. If they value him at 70m, they're not going to take less because you don't want to pay that and similarly your not going to pay more over a longer term or bonuses if you don't want to "overpay". Unless you structure the short fall in performance related pay, but I'm not sure how that would work for PSR/FFP purposes, because it may never be realised. Someone far more informed than me will have to educate me on that.

OK interesting. Be interesting how much of the shortfall they'd be willing to plug to push the transfer later into the window and try to maximize the profit.

Do you have any youth products that would go for decent cash? Scarles is the only one I can really think of right now.
A few of the French teams are supposedly interested in Kante at up to €20m.

Scarles has a lot of appearances for someone who's only 20. It's all about finding the right position for him. Once someone finds it, he'll be worth a lot.
 
If Real takes Mateus and offers Tchoumeni to us for around 70M, would you consider that as a good deal?
 
A few of the French teams are supposedly interested in Kante at up to €20m.

Scarles has a lot of appearances for someone who's only 20. It's all about finding the right position for him. Once someone finds it, he'll be worth a lot.
Oh I didn't realise he was a youth prospect. Makes a lot of sense.

Definitely, does look a decent prospect.
 
If Real takes Mateus and offers Tchoumeni to us for around 70M, would you consider that as a good deal?
No, Tchouameni is an absolutely infuriating and inconsistent player. This is not a good trade in no way shape or form.
 
If Real takes Mateus and offers Tchoumeni to us for around 70M, would you consider that as a good deal?
They are vastly different type of players. It seems that United have built their transfer strategy on Anderson. He was the safe option as his wide skill set made him a great no 6 and a wonderful combative no 8. Tchouameni is the elite no 6 option. He has the physicality, he won't lose the ball under pressure but will keep it safe. Mateus is the elite no 8. His passing range is off the charts. They'll make a brilliant partnership and are an upgrade on Anderson in their respective field yet they lack his wide skill set that makes him the complete midfielder.

Hence United must choose. What do they really want? It isn't helped by the fact that Mainoo's skillset is a bit weird. (elite dribbler but not amazing in terms of movement which a top tier no 8 must have and not physically imposing that a 6 should have) and Ederson whose got a wide skillset but whose nowhere near to that of Anderson.
 
No we’d be stuck with a midfield with no passers.
That's ironic considering that he's got a successful pass rate of 91.5% and an Accurate long balls % of over 60%. Tchoameni is an elite no 6 whose passing ability is flawless. However you can't expect a 6 to play as an 8 just as you can't expect a fork to act like a knife.
 
I want Fernandes above Tchouameni.

Same.

Anybody think even though we've bowed out publically that we may also still be keeping our powder dry for as long as possible just in case there's a twist in the tail with Anderson and City? Obviously it's far more likely that we are just haggling West Ham down as much as possible and that takes time.

I said at the start of the links I think this gets done for around £70 - 75 million all in but im sure we will want to pay less and West Ham will counter that they are already letting the next 100 million pound midfielder go on the "cheap" for £80 million or whatever which is too much. It seems like we are very much in the driving seat. The player wants to come and West Ham can't dig in forever. I'm relaxed about this one. Seems to be major willingness from all sides to hash it out, like the other big transfers at the start of the window last summer there's an inevitability about it.
 
That's ironic considering that he's got a successful pass rate of 91.5% and an Accurate long balls % of over 60%. Tchoameni is an elite no 6 whose passing ability is flawless. However you can't expect a 6 to play as an 8 just as you can't expect a fork to act like a knife.
You're smart enough to understand what was meant.
 
Same.

Anybody think even though we've bowed out publically that we may also still be keeping our powder dry for as long as possible just in case there's a twist in the tail with Anderson and City? Obviously it's far more likely that we are just haggling West Ham down as much as possible and that takes time.

I said at the start of the links I think this gets done for around £70 - 75 million all in but im sure we will want to pay less and West Ham will counter that they are already letting the next 100 million pound midfielder go on the "cheap" for £80 million or whatever which is too much. It seems like we are very much in the driving seat. The player wants to come and West Ham can't dig in forever. I'm relaxed about this one. Seems to be major willingness from all sides to hash it out, like the other big transfers at the start of the window last summer there's an inevitability about it.
I am relaxed about it, but I think the idea that West ham couldn't dig in forever isn't true when we look at Mbeumo. I think a player only wanting us will help us, but I think the selling club will know we probably won't walk away either after putting all the ground work with the player.

I think the Summerville links suggest we're trying to find a way to reach the valuation/profit levels West Ham want from this deal. Seems like they'll both be gone before the end of the month, according to the West Ham fans, so we'll know pretty quickly on this.
 
Fernandes, and or Summerville, being sold within the next twelve days according to relatively reliable rumour on our (WHU) side.

No mention of destination - presume it's Man Utd.

I could have told you that! It has been widely reported that West Ham need to make big sales by the end of the month for PSR, so it just seems obvious.

Fernandes will surely go to United, but Summerville it could be a case of West Ham taking whatever best offer comes to bring in the cash.
 
If Real takes Mateus and offers Tchoumeni to us for around 70M, would you consider that as a good deal?

Why would that be a good deal if Fernandes is reportedly our main target? We should get the players we are intent on getting
 
I don't worry about the Real links too much when they're busy trying to sign other right now.

Apparently they've come to personal terms with Enzo Fernandez while it's reported that PSG want Camavinga but he doesn't want to leave.

There's quite a few reasons why RM is a very unlikely landing spot for MF no matter how much Jose rates him
 
What a complete load of bollocks.
What the heck is going on with the fee. General expectation started at something like £50m+ add-ons. Then West Ham anchor £80m through some outlets. Fabrizio then randomly sweeps in, adding another £5m, and now ultimately he's talking about a £100m?? Either there is some really weird negotiation strategy going on, or West Ham have completely lost their marbles
 
Why would that be a good deal if Fernandes is reportedly our main target? We should get the players we are intent on getting
Yes, I felt the same still asking if it is a good deal because it looks like Real want Mateus and they are ok to offload Tchouameni.

If it is my choice, obviosuly I go gor Mateus only, but I am bit worried if an offer from Realcomes in how it can change Mateus preference.

I agree with other posters, with Tchouameni we become more static.
 
What the heck is going on with the fee. General expectation started at something like £50m+ add-ons. Then West Ham anchor £80m through some outlets. Fabrizio then randomly sweeps in, adding another £5m, and now ultimately he's talking about a £100m?? Either there is some really weird negotiation strategy going on, or West Ham have completely lost their marbles
It was never £50mil plus add ons. That's what some wanted on here. The more realistic price, including the cut that Southampton get was around £65mil.

WH won't get £80mil for him. They may get £70mil. Who knows.

The £100mil is the fernandes/Summerville combined which is unrealistic. £110mil for the pair (70-40 split) is more realistic imho.
 
It was never £50mil plus add ons. That's what some wanted on here. The more realistic price, including the cut that Southampton get was around £65mil.

WH won't get £80mil for him. They may get £70mil. Who knows.

The £100mil is the fernandes/Summerville combined which is unrealistic. £110mil for the pair (70-40 split) is more realistic imho.

The market is absolutely insane, truly ridiculous. £100m for two relegated players. If these signings are all dubbed as good then how on earth did WH even go down?

Fernandes, Summerville and Bowen all tipped to move for quite substantial transfer fees, if they were all worth it and good enough, why didn't they drag WH to survival?

Might need to start questioning the mentality of the players linked to the club, before signing them.
 
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